OPINION ON TAPERING TEST!

[Mak1990]

What is your guys opinion on tapering your cycle to lower dosages before pct
EXAMPLE:
400-500 mg weeks 1-8
Week9 200 mg
Week 10 100mg.

All medications used when prescribed such as anti depressant, anti biotics etc etc. usually tell you to taper off before going cold turkey.
So wouldint it make sense to slowly taper your dosage instead of going cold turkey before going into pct.
most articles I have read online usually done in TRT clinics suggest to taper down.
(Actual doctors)
While “ fourm” dudes suggest that testosterone tapers itself and it is a waste of gains to taper your dosage.

I am open to all opinions and would like to read what everyone thinks.

 

[Nac]

I think TRT clinics suggest tapering a SERM such as clomid, cant say Ive seen any TRT clinic suggest tapering test? Cos we are talking about test here, right? Not an antibiotic, or antidepressant, or panadol?

Forum dudes dont "suggest" test tapers itself, but science and biology suggests that once exogenous administration ceases, there will be a steady decline in serum levels over time due to the drugs ester and metabolism. Which, incidentally, is why forum dudes "suggest" starting PCT, with a SERM, some time after last pin (some time depending on the specific ester). So, theres no real "stopping cold turkey", unless you are using a no-ester.

Alternatively, you can by all means start using a SERM before last pin, which is something some other forum dudes have suggested. Personally I think this is a far superior tactic to tapering your test dose.

 

[Renew1]

Tapering anabolics is foolish (in my opinion). Because your body won't even begin to try to correct the suppression that you've given it, until you STOP (not start tapering) the external hormones you've been feeding it.
If you taper your dosage, you extend your shutdown, but lower the benefits of doing so

In my opinion, not only a waste....but also foolish.

 

[suavmcgauv]

Tapering down is pointless, and will just prolong shutdown duration while limiting gains as they are getting good. I could see an argument in tapering up, not down though.

 

[Mak1990]

Doesn’t it shock the body though going from 400-500 mg of test for example to zero even though it self tapers?
What I’m trying to say even though it self tapers. Wouldint it make sense for the last couple weeks of the cycle to lower the dose gradually before you start pct? I read that after week 8 on test c/e gains are minimal anyways. And allows cortisol, mood swings and all the other baggage that comes with it to become adjusted to more smoothly transition to pct?

 

[Nac]

*shrug* just try it then, man. Its not really a major either way. I do think you are underestimating how gradual the serum decline is when you stop dosing, though.

 

[Toren]

A lot of absolute speech in the Anabolics sub-form.

Tapering down should be considered pointless when relating it to making maximal gains while on cycle. And even that can be argued when the taper is short in duration and minimal in regards to dosage change. If you use injectables over a long cycle and decide to slightly lower the dosages for a week or two at the end, you aren't going to lose any "gains". What you are doing is starting the process of lowering exogenous hormones a bit early, and the possible reasons for lowering dosages at the end are plentiful. As far as gains go, you're not going to make or break much with this methodology. Having said that, I've certainly argued in the past that tapering exogenous hormones over a short 4-6 week oral cycle is getting just about as close to pointless as you can get. The Devil's always in the details though.

Reasons for tapering could be wanting to stay on cycle longer than what was planned for, trying to mitigate some existing side-effects such as elevated BP, non-muscle/bone overstimulation of the AR causing acne or prostate enlargement, libido issues, hepatic strain (orals), or for a variety of other reasons. There certainly are ancillaries that can be implemented to try and manage some of the negative side-effects, but on-cycle management of side-effects is a personal thing and can be tackled in different ways; More drugs isn't always the answer. Tapering only extends suppression if you decide to extend the length of your cycle - tapering dosages within a set cycle structure is different.

In regards to tapering exogenous hormones in hopes of mitigating suppression or increasing the likelihood of recovery, as stated above by another member, there are likely better ways of doing that. Using HCG during the time between last pin and/or starting your PCT drug(s) a week or two early are likely better ways to deal with suppression/recovery. If one decides to start their SERM early, I'd suggest not deducting that week or two off of the end of your PCT protocol. Being on your SERM for 2 or 3 weeks after your exogenous hormones have cleared your system is probably not wise and may very well eliminate any possible benefit one might see from starting their SERMs early. Personally, I like the idea of using HCG, whether it be for the duration, during the second half of the cycle or even just "blasting" it for the last 2-4 weeks prior to implementing PCT drugs.

To the OP, if you want to lower your weekly dose for the last week or two of your cycle, go for it. Just ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish and if you are really helping yourself in that regard. By doing this you ARE starting the process of elimination of SOME of the elevated levels of exogenous hormones a bit early. Your blood plasma levels will indeed be lower during this time frame and for some non-exact duration after your last injection. I just don't think your going to accomplish a whole lot here. Not to mention the fact that 8-10 weeks on Test (assuming enanthate ester) is generally considered to be the shortest recommended duration. Tapering dosages down on injectable cycles is usually done to alleviate a particular side-effect or to extend cycles. Gradual tapering can also be done when transitioning from blasting to cruising. A gradual taper in this regard is usually done in order to help acclimate the body to lowering dosages of hormones in the hope there will be no "crash".

There are experienced steroid users who swear by tapering down dosages at the end. Through trial and error some users find the transition from a heavy blast to PCT can be devasting. By tapering the dose for the last few weeks, one might make the transition to PCT a bit more acceptable. There are MANY factors to consider when going from a state of highly-enhanced to not-so-enhanced. Test levels are just one particular "state" one might consider. Different strokes for different folks, though.

There will always be pros and cons to any particular steroid protocol. You've just got to experiment and find out what works best for you. Some advice though, for the sake of longevity, cycling with only "gains" in mind is not a healthy way to go about things; And tweaking steroid cycles by a week or two here and there is also probably not going to do much for you in the long run either. You body will either respond well to years of cycling or it will not.

My vote, considering a lack of experience, is to do things the way we generally do them. Complete your 10 week cycle. Use the 2 week wash-out period after your last pin for the esters to clear, and then undertake a proper PCT, preferably with a 6 week duration and a taper of dosages. Adjust things going forward if you feel the need. If you decide to taper, let us know how it goes....

 

[Mak1990]

A lot of absolute speech in the Anabolics sub-form.

Tapering down should be considered pointless when relating it to making maximal gains while on cycle. And even that can be argued when the taper is short in duration and minimal in regards to dosage change. If you use injectables over a long cycle and decide to slightly lower the dosages for a week or two at the end, you aren't going to lose any "gains". What you are doing is starting the process of lowering exogenous hormones a bit early, and the possible reasons for lowering dosages at the end are plentiful. As far as gains go, you're not going to make or break much with this methodology. Having said that, I've certainly argued in the past that tapering exogenous hormones over a short 4-6 week oral cycle is getting just about as close to pointless as you can get. The Devil's always in the details though.

Reasons for tapering could be wanting to stay on cycle longer than what was planned for, trying to mitigate some existing side-effects such as elevated BP, non-muscle/bone overstimulation of the AR causing acne or prostate enlargement, libido issues, hepatic strain (orals), or for a variety of other reasons. There certainly are ancillaries that can be implemented to try and manage some of the negative side-effects, but on-cycle management of side-effects is personal thing and can be tackled in different ways; More drugs isn't always the answer. Tapering only extends suppression if you decide to extend the length of your cycle - tapering dosages within a set cycle structure is different.

In regards to tapering exogenous hormones in hopes of mitigating suppression or increasing the likelihood of recovery, as stated above, there are better ways of doing that. Using HCG during the time between last pin and/or starting your PCT drugs a week or two early are likely better ways to deal with suppression/recovery. If one decides to start their SERM early, I'd suggest not deducting that week or two off of the end of your PCT protocol. Being on your SERM for 2 or 3 weeks after your exogenous hormones have cleared your system is probably not wise and may very well eliminate any possible benefit one might see from starting their SERMs early. Personally, I like the idea of using HCG, whether it be for the duration, during the second half of the cycle or even just "blasting" it for the last 2-4 weeks prior to implementing PCT drugs.

To the OP, if you want to lower your weekly dose for the last week or two of your cycle, go for it. Just ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish and if you are really helping yourself in that regard. By doing this you ARE starting the process of elimination of SOME of the elevated levels of exogenous hormones a bit early. Your blood plasma levels will indeed be lower during this time frame and for some non-exact duration after your last injection. I just don't think your going to accomplish a whole lot here. Not to mention the fact that 8-10 weeks on Test (assuming enanthate ester) is generally considered to be the shortest recommended duration. Tapering dosages down on injectable cycles is usually done to alleviate a particular side-effect or to extend cycles. Gradual tapering can also be done when transitioning from blasting to cruising. A gradual taper in this regard is usually done in order to help acclimate the body to lowering dosages of hormones in the hope there will be no "crash".

Lastly, there are experienced steroid users who swear by tapering down dosages at the end. Through trial and error some users find the transition from a heavy blast to PCT can be devasting. By tapering the dose for the last few weeks, one might make the transition to PCT a bit more acceptable. There are MANY factors to consider when going from a state of highly-enhanced to not-so-enhanced. Test levels are just one particular "state" one might consider. Different strokes for different folks, though.

There will always be pros and cons to any particular steroid protocol. You've just got to experiment and find out what works best for you. Some advice though, for the sake of longevity, cycling with only "gains" in mind is not a healthy way to go about things; And tweaking steroid cycles by a week or two here and there is also probably not going to do much for you in the long run either. You body will either respond well to years of cycling or it will not.

My vote, considering a lack of experience, is to do things the way we generally do them. Complete your 10 week cycle. Use the 2 week wash-out period after your last pin for the esters to clear, and then undertake a proper PCT, preferably with a 6 week duration and a taper of dosages. Adjust things going forward if you feel the need. If you decide to taper, let us know how it goes....

Thanks very much for this reply. Lots of useful information.
I wana give you a idea of a cycle I have in mind with pct and would
Love your feed back.

Testosterone Cypionate / Winstrol


*INJECTIONS:

Weeks 1-8 - 400mg Testosterone Cypionate (Monday, Thursday (Injection)
1 ml Monday, 1ml Thursday

Week 9- 200mg Testosterone Cypionate (Monday (injection)
1/2ml Monday. 1/2 ml (Monday, Thursday
(Injection)

Week 10 - 100mg Testosterone Cypionate
(Monday (injection) 1/2 ml.


*ORALS:

Weeks ‪7-8 - 30‬ mg Winstrol ED(everyday)
1 tablet every 3.5-4 hours upon rising.

Weeks ‪9-10 - 40‬mg Winstrol ED(everyday)
1 tablet every 3.5-4 hours upon rising



*ANTI ESTROGEN

Weeks 2-12 - .5 (1/2 tablet) Arimidex EOD (every other day. Mon, wed, fri,)


*ON CYCLE SUPPORT


Weeks 1-12 -
Milk Thistle - 3 per per day (spread out)
750mg

Cq 10 - 300mg (spread out through the day with meals) 3 per day

Glucosamine - 3 per day (spread out through the day)


*PCT:
(2 weeks after last testosterone injection)

Weeks 1-3 - .5 (1/2 tablet) Arimidex EOD (every other day. Mon, wed, fri) before bed

Weeks 1-2 - 25mg (1 capsule) E - XSTANE (Armistane) before bed

Week 1 - 50mg (1 tablet)Clomid ED (Everyday)

Weeks 2-5 - 25mg (1/2 tablet) Clomid ED (everyday)

Weeks 1-5 3000mg Tribulus (4 capsules) ED (everyday) spread out through the day (empty stomach)

Weeks 1-5 2000-5000mg Dosage fenugreek. (Before bed)


That being said. For me I don’t care about HUGE gains. If I gain 12-18 pounds keepable pounds. While doing a smooth pct and avoid a huge crash it’s well worth it to me. With diet and training OF COURSE being on point (on and off cycle).
I also have cycled before. Never did high dosages and always did 8-10 week cycles (250 test, 200 eq for example for 8-10weeks) never crashed always did pct of Clomid and nolvadex and natural test booster for 4-5 weeks. Why I’m being paranoid is I wanted to try a cycle at 400-500mg I never ran dosage that high before (test wise) and now being older I am more thoughtful of side effects or shutting myself down permanently....

 

[Toren]

Thanks very much for this reply. Lots of useful information.
I wana give you a idea of a cycle I have in mind with pct and would
Love your feed back.

Testosterone Cypionate / Winstrol


*INJECTIONS:

Weeks 1-8 - 400mg Testosterone Cypionate (Monday, Thursday (Injection)
1 ml Monday, 1ml Thursday

Week 9- 200mg Testosterone Cypionate (Monday (injection)
1/2ml Monday. 1/2 ml (Monday, Thursday
(Injection)

Week 10 - 100mg Testosterone Cypionate
(Monday (injection) 1/2 ml.


*ORALS:

Weeks ‪7-8 - 30‬ mg Winstrol ED(everyday)
1 tablet every 3.5-4 hours upon rising.

Weeks ‪9-10 - 40‬mg Winstrol ED(everyday)
1 tablet every 3.5-4 hours upon rising



*ANTI ESTROGEN

Weeks 2-12 - .5 (1/2 tablet) Arimidex EOD (every other day. Mon, wed, fri,)


*ON CYCLE SUPPORT


Weeks 1-12 -
Milk Thistle - 3 per per day (spread out)
750mg

Cq 10 - 300mg (spread out through the day with meals) 3 per day

Glucosamine - 3 per day (spread out through the day)


*PCT:
(2 weeks after last testosterone injection)

Weeks 1-3 - .5 (1/2 tablet) Arimidex EOD (every other day. Mon, wed, fri) before bed

Weeks 1-2 - 25mg (1 capsule) E - XSTANE (Armistane) before bed

Week 1 - 50mg (1 tablet)Clomid ED (Everyday)

Weeks 2-5 - 25mg (1/2 tablet) Clomid ED (everyday)

Weeks 1-5 3000mg Tribulus (4 capsules) ED (everyday) spread out through the day (empty stomach)

Weeks 1-5 2000-5000mg Dosage fenugreek. (Before bed)


That being said. For me I don’t care about HUGE gains. If I gain 12-18 pounds keepable pounds. While doing a smooth pct and avoid a huge crash it’s well worth it to me. With diet and training OF COURSE being on point (on and off cycle).
I also have cycled before. Never did high dosages and always did 8-10 week cycles (250 test, 200 eq for example for 8-10weeks) never crashed always did pct of Clomid and nolvadex and natural test booster for 4-5 weeks. Why I’m being paranoid is I wanted to try a cycle at 400-500mg I never ran dosage that high before (test wise) and now being older I am more thoughtful of side effects or shutting myself down permanently....

The choice to taper Test is up to you. My vote is not to taper or to taper less aggressively. Again, I don't think it will make that big of a deal either way.

I've never used Winny but it has a short-enough half-life that I would use it for the last 2 weeks on Test and also during the 2 week post-pin period. It will help to keep the "gains" coming while your Test ester clears. You also don't need to dose it every 3-4 hours. Twice daily dosing is fine. You can dose it three times daily if you so desire.

Your AI dose may be a bit high but that depends entirely on your body and past experiences. Without specific knowledge about you, I would normally suggest starting the AI at .25mg on pin days or 3x per week and then adjusting up as required.

I'd suggest adding an all-in-one cycle support supplement like CEL Cycle Assist, as well as adding some garlic extract. In the end, nothing will replace fresh fruits and vegetables, healthy fats (Omega-3 intake higher than omega-6), water intake and a well-balanced multi-vitamin. You should be monitoring your BP while on cycle as well.

I don't normally suggest anastrozole during PCT but it can be done. I'd presonally suggest .25mg 3x per week for the first 3 weeks and then .25mg 2x per week for the 4th week. I like the idea of Arimistane during PCT. It should help to slightly lower cortisol and might act as a mild AI. I'd use it for 2 weeks after cessation of anastrozole. Again, it might help to eliminate any potential for estrogen rebound.

Your clompihene dosing protocol is fine. I generaly like a taper on the last week but it's not necessarily a deal-breaker.

Suggestion:

Test: 1-10 at your desired dose
Winstrol: 9-12 at your desired dose
Anastrozole: as necessary starting at .25mg 2-3 times per week. You may be able to drop your dose a bit while taking Winny.

Clomid: 13-17 @ 50/50/25/25/12.5 (or similar)
Anastrozole: 0.25mg 3x/wk. for 3 weeks followed by 0.25mg 2x for a 4th week. (Exemestane would be preferable)
Arimistane: 50mg ED for 6 weeks (dosed 2x per day).

 

[Mak1990]

The choice to taper Test is up to you. My vote is not to taper or to taper less aggressively. Again, I don't think it will make that big of a deal either way.

I've never used Winny but it has a short-enough half-life that I would use it for the last 2 weeks on Test and also during the 2 week post-pin period. It will help to keep the "gains" coming while your Test ester clears. You also don't need to dose it every 3-4 hours. Twice daily dosing is fine. You can dose it three times daily if you so desire.

Your AI dose may be a bit high but that depends entirely on your body and past experiences. Without specific knowledge about you, I would normally suggest starting the AI at .25mg on pin days or 3x per week and then adjusting up as required.

I'd suggest adding an all-in-one cycle support supplement like CEL Cycle Assist, as well as adding some garlic extract. In the end, nothing will replace fresh fruits and vegetables, healthy fats (Omega-3 intake higher than omega-6), water intake and a well-balanced multi-vitamin. You should be monitoring your BP while on cycle as well.

I don't normally suggest anastrozole during PCT but it can be done. I'd presonally suggest .25mg 3x per week for the first 3 weeks and then .25mg 2x per week for the 4th week. I like the idea of Arimistane during PCT. It should help to slightly lower cortisol and might act as a mild AI. I'd use it for 2 weeks after cessation of anastrozole. Again, it might help to eliminate any potential for estrogen rebound.

Your clompihene dosing protocol is fine. I generaly like a taper on the last week but it's not necessarily a deal-breaker.

Suggestion:

Test: 1-10 at your desired dose
Winstrol: 9-12 at your desired dose
Anastrozole: as necessary starting at .25mg 2-3 times per week. You may be able to drop your dose a bit while taking Winny.

Clomid: 13-17 @ 50/50/25/25/12.5 (or similar)
Anastrozole: 0.25mg 3x/wk. for 3 weeks followed by 0.25mg 2x for a 4th week. (Exemestane would be preferable)
Arimistane: 50mg ED for 6 weeks (dosed 2x per day).

Thanks man. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out and develop a protocol for me! That’s awsome of you! Much much appreciated.
I’m going to run it how you set it up.
Just do
weeks 1-10 test at 400mg
And 9-12 of winstrol 30-40mg
Along with the adjusted pct and armidex protocol.
I just have one last question for you.
I have three vials of left over Pfizer test. They are 1 ml vials each containing 200mg
Besides the two 10ml vials of Pfizer test cyp that I have. I was wondering would it be okay to run 500mg for the first 6 weeks then run 400mg for the remainder? I just wana use them up because I don’t plan on cycling until next year or the following after.

 

[Toren]

Thanks man. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out and develop a protocol for me! That’s awsome of you! Much much appreciated.
I’m going to run it how you set it up.
Just do
weeks 1-10 test at 400mg
And 9-12 of winstrol 30-40mg
Along with the adjusted pct and armidex protocol.
I just have one last question for you.
I have three vials of left over Pfizer test. They are 1 ml vials each containing 200mg
Besides the two 10ml vials of Pfizer test cyp that I have. I was wondering would it be okay to run 500mg for the first 6 weeks then run 400mg for the remainder? I just wana use them up because I don’t plan on cycling until next year or the following after.

I doubt you will notice much of a difference between 400 and 500mg of Test so I say do whatever you need to do to use what you have. Personally I would have the slightly higher dosing at the end of the cycle but that's just my preference. Either way should be fine.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Doesn’t it shock the body though going from 400-500 mg of test for example to zero even though it self tapers?
What I’m trying to say even though it self tapers. Wouldint it make sense for the last couple weeks of the cycle to lower the dose gradually before you start pct? I read that after week 8 on test c/e gains are minimal anyways. And allows cortisol, mood swings and all the other baggage that comes with it to become adjusted to more smoothly transition to pct?

There is no shock when using a long ester. It slowly exits your bloodstream over the course of several weeks even when stopped suddenly.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Doesn’t it shock the body though going from 400-500 mg of test for example to zero even though it self tapers?
What I’m trying to say even though it self tapers. Wouldint it make sense for the last couple weeks of the cycle to lower the dose gradually before you start pct? I read that after week 8 on test c/e gains are minimal anyways. And allows cortisol, mood swings and all the other baggage that comes with it to become adjusted to more smoothly transition to pct?

Double post

 

[Country]

Tapering anabolics is foolish (in my opinion). Because your body won't even begin to try to correct the suppression that you've given it, until you STOP (not start tapering) the external hormones you've been feeding it.
If you taper your dosage, you extend your shutdown, but lower the benefits of doing so

In my opinion, not only a waste....but also foolish.

Agree