I say about the same, gain-wise.. But there isn't enough 4AD in either of those, so the gains may not last.. At least with a high dose of 4AD (1200-1800mg) you'll see some estrogen effects, this can be good for gains.. Just as long as you don't have sensitivity to estrogen, this should work fiine.. Keep vitex, milk thistle, and 6-Oxo/Formastat handy..