On TRT, persistent libido issues and weird finding

[CroLifter]

Hey everyone,
Those who know me from here know how much I complained about libido issues both on cycle and on replacement dosages as it has already cost me one longer term relationship and a few potential fwb.

I am on 100mg test E and 500 iu hcg a week, both injected once a week spaced out. I tried a lot of different protocols and find no significant difference in the way i feel. So it makes sense to have the least number of pins possible.

One thing that is consistently lacking is libido. I just dont have the desire and dont get that blue ball feeling... Ever. That is somethinf that exclusively used to happen when I was completely off. It seems, at least for me, shut down hpta = no connection between the brain and the genitals.

But very interesting thing i found out is the morning following the night of excessive drinking (and i dont mean a drink or two, but really i have to get drunk) i get the old libido and random erections back.
Does anyone know whats going on here? I tested this repeatedly, its always after heavy drinking.

On other days women are just pieces of art and I would rather watch a movie.

 

[kisaj]

No idea and no one has ever really provided a real answer, but it is very common to have a big boost in libido when you're hungover. Some think it has to do with the reset occurring and a big boost of dopamine, some hypothesize the lowering of inhibitions, etc.. but no real science. The bigger frustration is to get the libido rise, but then not get up for it.

 

[CroLifter]

No idea and no one has ever really provided a real answer, but it is very common to have a big boost in libido when you're hungover. Some think it has to do with the reset occurring and a big boost of dopamine, some hypothesize the lowering of inhibitions, etc.. but no real science. The bigger frustration is to get the libido rise, but then not get up for it.

I am also starting to think its more about serotonin and dopamine ratios than anything.

Hence higher T doses which inevitably bring higher e2 and higher serotonin with itself, usually cause libido reduction.

I dont have ED, sensitivity is good, i just dont "want it".


Just take a look at trt forums at t nation.

Majority are having libido issues on trt. Usually other symptoms resolve but this one persists.

Could really be that we are collectively OD'ing ourselves on trt with too high of a dose.
Maybe the way to go are daily micro injections. However, i am not willing to go that route.

 

[kisaj]

That doesn't really help, I've tried that route as have many others to address other things but libido is always a side concern. What you'll find is that many guys that are coming up to the point of injection day or even missed the day, are reporting high libido. But, we know that doesn't last, so there is that window. Libido is just a tricky thing.

 

[bad rad]

Have you checked your pregnenolone and DHEA? Both are tied to libido and TRT can cause a significant drop in both. hCG doesn't keep either of those elevated for me.

 

[Kronic]

is 100mg enough? I usually see 200+

 

[bad rad]

is 100mg enough? I usually see 200+

I've read a bunch of ranges but about 500ug/dL for DHEA-S is were most find benefit. As for pregnenolone, I've read 180ng/dL is optimal. I know I was having issues when mine dropped to 15ng/dL.

 

[CroLifter]

Have you checked your pregnenolone and DHEA? Both are tied to libido and TRT can cause a significant drop in both. hCG doesn't keep either of those elevated for me.

For some reason dermacrine makes me feel worse. And if I overdo it i can certainly feel the excess estrogen.

hcg is the only thing that gives some libido but i have to take at least 1000 iu per week. Its getting harder and harder to find.

 

[bad rad]

That doesn't really help, I've tried that route as have many others to address other things but libido is always a side concern. What you'll find is that many guys that are coming up to the point of injection day or even missed the day, are reporting high libido. But, we know that doesn't last, so there is that window. Libido is just a tricky thing.

I've read the same reports from guys on TRT. Something to consider is endogenous serum testosterone levels aren't stable or linear. A couple of things I've seen that could possibly help those willing to experiment for 4-6 weeks.

Assuming 200mg testosterone per week as a TRT dose. This is my normal since I get very low serum levels for a given dose.

Option 1:
Week 1: 300mg Test
Week 2: 100mg Test

Option 2:
Week 1: 200mg Test
Week 2: 200mg Test, 200iu hCG daily
Week 3: 200iu hCG daily

I've tried option two and my libido sky rocketed to the point it was annoying.

 

[BBiceps]

How’s your E levels? Does your libido go up or down when it’s high/low?

 

[CroLifter]

How’s your E levels? Does your libido go up or down when it’s high/low?

I dont use AI at all. If i use even a tiny bit of aromasin dick is dead, no sensitivity and joints hurt.

There has never been a point while taking exogenous test where I felt true libido ie. feeling of needing to have sex like it happens from time to time while off.

Hence I hypothesized that we may be boosting our free testosterone much higher than where it would be naturally thus creatint an imbalance.

But there is sth deeper, likely neurotransmitter related, as majority seem to struggle with libido on trt/blast.
And since getting wasted helps it leads me to believe its for sure neurotransmitter related.
Dont get me wrong, no ED, great function purely mechanically speaking, but the random "i wanna have sex" feeling is absent and i am trying to research why that happens.

Also morning wood is mostly absent while on exogenous test.

 

[kisaj]

I've read the same reports from guys on TRT. Something to consider is endogenous serum testosterone levels aren't stable or linear. A couple of things I've seen that could possibly help those willing to experiment for 4-6 weeks.

Assuming 200mg testosterone per week as a TRT dose. This is my normal since I get very low serum levels for a given dose.

Option 1:
Week 1: 300mg Test
Week 2: 100mg Test

Option 2:
Week 1: 200mg Test
Week 2: 200mg Test, 200iu hCG daily
Week 3: 200iu hCG daily

I've tried option two and my libido sky rocketed to the point it was annoying.

I've been through it all in my 12 years of TRT and would never touch HCG. That destroyed me in the beginning and took forever to get back to a normal baseline to start test only.

 

[thebigt]

i'm 63 and been on trt since 2008, 1st it was 200mg weekly then several years ago reduced to 100mg weekly.

i guess libiso issuses are so common for guys my age on trt that a around 5 years ago my doc out of the blue told me if i was having libido issues he could prescribe me viagra, i said sure-even though i've never had any issues with libido except for me days of abusing ionamin--anything over 90mg ionamin and it would not get hard no matter what.

when my doc said he would prescribe me viagra if i was having libido/erections issuses i looked it up and found it was pretty common for guys on trt to also be prescribed viagra-when i was prescribed viagra it was still the blue pill only-since then the VA has switched to a white generic version and even though i still only use a quarter of the 100mg pill it is not even close to effectivess as the original blue pill?

 

[kisaj]

Curious OP- do you take Tumeric as one of your staple supplements?

 

[BBiceps]

I dont use AI at all. If i use even a tiny bit of aromasin dick is dead, no sensitivity and joints hurt.

There has never been a point while taking exogenous test where I felt true libido ie. feeling of needing to have sex like it happens from time to time while off.

Hence I hypothesized that we may be boosting our free testosterone much higher than where it would be naturally thus creatint an imbalance.

But there is sth deeper, likely neurotransmitter related, as majority seem to struggle with libido on trt/blast.
And since getting wasted helps it leads me to believe its for sure neurotransmitter related.
Dont get me wrong, no ED, great function purely mechanically speaking, but the random "i wanna have sex" feeling is absent and i am trying to research why that happens.

Also morning wood is mostly absent while on exogenous test.

The reason I ask is because it seems like my libido is higher when E is higher, have you noticed that? The day after drinking I’m guessing E should be high, no?

 

[kisaj]

The theory is that the after drinking, your neurotransmitters need to reset because you essentially boost dopamine, serotonin, and GABA which is why you feel so good, but deplete glutamate. So when your are expelling the alcohol and transmitters are resetting (balancing) GABA is being lowered and glutamate and dopamine are increasing rapidly. Since Dopamine and glutamate directly influence libido, you are feeling the outcome- post drinking horny. But Serotonin doesn't increase at the same rate so there is an imbalance and why you also feel anxious and sometimes depressed until everything comes back in order.

The reason I asked OP about Tumeric is because it is known to increase serotonin and acts as a natural anti-depressant, but as we know- high serotonin= low libido and low serotonin = high libido.

 

[CroLifter]

The reason I ask is because it seems like my libido is higher when E is higher, have you noticed that? The day after drinking I’m guessing E should be high, no?

Thats what i thought so i tried drinking beer lol but it didnt work, i really have to get wasted.

So like @kisaj said its neurotransmitter related


My guess is sth gets depleted on long term trt, hence hcg blast can be used to restore balance. VigorousSteve made a video on that, how to restore hormonal balance after long term use via use of hcg.

 

[CroLifter]

Well, here is the situation. I decided to stop test to resolve my libido issues, i have been on for 8 weeks only, am 240 lbs and content with my physique. Before that i was off for 8 weeks and even before that, on for 8 months.


I know, i know... its self prescribed trt, during these 8 weeks i have been off i got my test to 770ng/dl 3 weeks into pct so there is hope for my balls.

So i did 500 iu hcg eod for the last 10 days, while before i used 500 iu once per week.

Libido skyrocketed, especially towards the end when only hcg was in the system. Morning wood easily as when i was 15 and 1st started getting it, especially with a little aromasin.

Letting E run high on test doesnt produce same results. There is sth to the lh receptor, maybe progesterone, dhea who knows pathway that we dont quite understand in regards to libido
Its not just about high test and adequate estrogen.

Also i found out my "pfizer" viagra was bunk.

So got me some kamagra (generic sildenafil) with dapoxetine, and as a man with PE who a lot of times would finish even before entering (gear messed sth up.. Or its my anxiety) , I freaking fell in love with dapoxetine. Seriously this stuff rocks.

 

[ironranger]

I've recently added a low dose of clomid (25mg EOD) to my TRT dose of 125mg test E.
It has definitely helped my libido. Loads are decent size too, and I've been able to drop ed meds.
Before that I tried DHEA, Preg, and nothing seemed to help.
It seems like the clomid is balancing my hormones out. I'm going to continue this for a few more months and see how it goes, but so far so good.

 

[CroLifter]

I've recently added a low dose of clomid (25mg EOD) to my TRT dose of 125mg test E.
It has definitely helped my libido. Loads are decent size too, and I've been able to drop ed meds.
Before that I tried DHEA, Preg, and nothing seemed to help.
It seems like the clomid is balancing my hormones out. I'm going to continue this for a few more months and see how it goes, but so far so good.

How was your libido on test only?

I find that when shut down and using test only, and not using hcg i dont really get desire or blue ball feeling.

 

[Kronic]

isn't it better to run HCG while on cycle and save the serm for pct? or do some people like the estrogen blocking

 

[CroLifter]

isn't it better to run HCG while on cycle and save the serm for pct? or do some people like the estrogen blocking

You do run it on cycle and while the esters clear.
Then you stop it and start serms.

 

[ironranger]

How was your libido on test only?

I find that when shut down and using test only, and not using hcg i dont really get desire or blue ball feeling.

My libido was pretty average on 250 mg test only.
It's actually better on 125mg and low dose clomid.
I did some research on this; and some trt clinics are starting to add clomid to their protocol.
There is definitely something in it. I'm actually feeling really good on this combination, and making gains. And yes. Libido is good

 

[ironranger]

isn't it better to run HCG while on cycle and save the serm for pct? or do some people like the estrogen blocking

It probably is, but there is something definitely going on, and the clomid/test combo works for me

 

[CroLifter]

It probably is, but there is something definitely going on, and the clomid/test combo works for me

That means that clomid is ablento negate some of the shutdown caused by 125mg of test and makes you produce a little natural test.

Hm I wonder if one could use say 20mg anavar daily with some clomid, make some gains and avoid total shutdown.

That amount of anavar should in theory be less suppressive than 125mg test a week.

 

[thebigt]

My libido was pretty average on 250 mg test only.
It's actually better on 125mg and low dose clomid.
I did some research on this; and some trt clinics are starting to add clomid to their protocol.
There is definitely something in it. I'm actually feeling really good on this combination, and making gains. And yes. Libido is good

this is very interesting to me personally...i was on 200mg weekly test but polycythemia got me taken off test altogether and after 3 months got back on at 100mg weekly. the VA refuses to do any additional add-ons, actually they are very cave-man like in their approach. i have access to clomid wondering if it would be of benefit--i've been on trt since 2006 or 7, it's been awhile.

 

[CroLifter]

@ironranger out of curiosity, how old are you?

Because its the younger folks who usually respond well to clomid.

 

[thebigt]

@ironranger out of curiosity, how old are you?

Because its the younger folks who usually respond well to clomid.

lol...i'm a young 63!!!

 

[CroLifter]

lol...i'm a young 63!!!

I know, hence i am sceptical of clomid in your situation.

Have you considered hcg? If anything is going to give your testes a stimulus, ita high dose of hcg.

 

[thebigt]

I know, hence i am sceptical of clomid in your situation.

Have you considered hcg? If anything is going to give your testes a stimulus, ita high dose of hcg.

i would prefer oral clomid versus another injection. i;m not that into needles.

 

[CroLifter]

i would prefer oral clomid versus another injection. i;m not that into needles.

I just think its good to have testes primed, yours are probably as atrophied as they can get after years of trt.

 

[thebigt]

I just think its good to have testes primed, yours are probably as atrophied as they can get after years of trt.

i think they might have done me a favor reducing trt from 200mg weekly down to 100mg. i can tell they aren't the grapefruits they once were but still rather large oranges.

regular usage of test boosters and sustain alpha i'm sure have been beneficial.

 

[ironranger]

this is very interesting to me personally...i was on 200mg weekly test but polycythemia got me taken off test altogether and after 3 months got back on at 100mg weekly. the VA refuses to do any additional add-ons, actually they are very cave-man like in their approach. i have access to clomid wondering if it would be of benefit--i've been on trt since 2006 or 7, it's been awhile.

I don't think it would do any harm to try. I'm on 125mg test and 25mg clomid EOD. So my doses are very low. Everyone responds differently. I read that some are taking 50mg EOD. I guess try and see

 

[ironranger]

@ironranger out of curiosity, how old are you?

Because its the younger folks who usually respond well to clomid.

I'm actually quite old lol. Been a member on this site longer than most. In my low 50s.
That said, Im very active. My partner is half my age. I get hit on lots and play fairly competitive sports with people half my age. So I must be doing something rite

 

[thebigt]

I don't think it would do any harm to try. I'm on 125mg test and 25mg clomid EOD. So my doses are very low. Everyone responds differently. I read that some are taking 50mg EOD. I guess try and see

thanks seriously considering the 25mg eod...appreciate it.

 

[Smont]

Hey everyone,
Those who know me from here know how much I complained about libido issues both on cycle and on replacement dosages as it has already cost me one longer term relationship and a few potential fwb.

I am on 100mg test E and 500 iu hcg a week, both injected once a week spaced out. I tried a lot of different protocols and find no significant difference in the way i feel. So it makes sense to have the least number of pins possible.

One thing that is consistently lacking is libido. I just dont have the desire and dont get that blue ball feeling... Ever. That is somethinf that exclusively used to happen when I was completely off. It seems, at least for me, shut down hpta = no connection between the brain and the genitals.

But very interesting thing i found out is the morning following the night of excessive drinking (and i dont mean a drink or two, but really i have to get drunk) i get the old libido and random erections back.
Does anyone know whats going on here? I tested this repeatedly, its always after heavy drinking.

On other days women are just pieces of art and I would rather watch a movie.

Sooooo, I no longer drink, but I use to have the same thing happen. The day after getting royaly wasted I would be horny as hell the next day, every time. The only thing I use to think was that maybe the drinking tanked my test and I'm horny because my body is working overtime trying to bring up testosterone levels. But that would only make sense to me for a Natty person if at all.

Maybe there's something else to it. But it's not a good way to go about things lol, what I wonder in your case. Seeing how you don't wanna do it, but there's certain times where everything is working correctly (like the day after drinking) your obviously capable of it. Maybe it's a brain chemistry thing and not a physical problem. There definitely a possibility.

I know I'm not wording this correctly but I think you get what I'm saying

 

[thebigt]

Sooooo, I no longer drink, but I use to have the same thing happen. The day after getting royaly wasted I would be horny as hell the next day, every time. The only thing I use to think was that maybe the drinking tanked my test and I'm horny because my body is working overtime trying to bring up testosterone levels. But that would only make sense to me for a Natty person if at all.

Maybe there's something else to it. But it's not a good way to go about things lol, what I wonder in your case. Seeing how you don't wanna do it, but there's certain times where everything is working correctly (like the day after drinking) your obviously capable of it. Maybe it's a brain chemistry thing and not a physical problem. There definitely a possibility.

I know I'm not wording this correctly but I think you get what I'm saying

there is definitely a role the brain plays in sex and libido....globally pornograpy is a $97 BILLION dollar industry--and that isn't counting all the cosmetics and sexy lingerie that women buy to make themselves look sexier.

 

[CroLifter]

I'm actually quite old lol. Been a member on this site longer than most. In my low 50s.
That said, Im very active. My partner is half my age. I get hit on lots and play fairly competitive sports with people half my age. So I must be doing something rite

Haah kudos for getting hit on in your 50s,i dont get hit on at 24

Yeah, my libido seems to have improved as enanthate cleared my system.. Weird. Balls are bigger hahah so maybe there is sth to it.

I theorized also in my case it may be general hpta activity that is related to libido, hence when shutdown and without hcg, genitals are cold and shriveled and no libido. Even though i feel all the other effects of test.

Good libido only comes from natural production in my case, whether from hcg or from my own lh.

 

[Smont]

Haah kudos for getting hit on in your 50s,i dont get hit on at 24

Yeah, my libido seems to have improved as enanthate cleared my system.. Weird. Balls are bigger hahah so maybe there is sth to it.

I theorized also in my case it may be general hpta activity that is related to libido, hence when shutdown and without hcg, genitals are cold and shriveled and no libido. Even though i feel all the other effects of test.

Good libido only comes from natural production in my case, whether from hcg or from my own lh.

Have you tried any no testosterone cycles? Like using x amount of EQ paired with some HCG or if without hcg you will need a very high dose of eq to get estrogen levels up enough for mood and sexual function, probably a 1000mg +. It's not something I have ever tried but there are a small amount of guys that don't get on well with testosterone and those are the approaches some of them use. I've also seen guys say 1000mg of deca with no testosterone will keep sexual function even tho on lower doses of deca they loose it. Again I think it has something to do with getting enough estrogen. I'm not particularly fond of that idea with the deca. But the high eq no test or moderate eq with some HCG dosent sound too scary lol.

Just tossing some ideas around.

Also. Have you tried pairing a equal amount of masteron with a low dose test. Like 150-200 each? I got some friends doing that pretty much year round as there trt.

 

[Smont]

I'm currently using 300 test 200mast as a mini cycle and libido is a little higher then usual.

 

[Kronic]

i would prefer oral clomid versus another injection. i;m not that into needles.

do you inject anything? HCG can be done with tiny 31 gauge needles

 

[Smont]

do you inject anything? HCG can be done with tiny 31 gauge needles

 

[Kronic]

View attachment 211938

oops am blind. it's just that chlomid has much more potential side effects. you might fix your libido but find that you can't cum lol

 

[Kronic]

maybe cycling HCG then chlomid every once in a while would be best

 

[CroLifter]

Have you tried any no testosterone cycles? Like using x amount of EQ paired with some HCG or if without hcg you will need a very high dose of eq to get estrogen levels up enough for mood and sexual function, probably a 1000mg +. It's not something I have ever tried but there are a small amount of guys that don't get on well with testosterone and those are the approaches some of them use. I've also seen guys say 1000mg of deca with no testosterone will keep sexual function even tho on lower doses of deca they loose it. Again I think it has something to do with getting enough estrogen. I'm not particularly fond of that idea with the deca. But the high eq no test or moderate eq with some HCG dosent sound too scary lol.

Just tossing some ideas around.

Also. Have you tried pairing a equal amount of masteron with a low dose test. Like 150-200 each? I got some friends doing that pretty much year round as there trt.

I was sick and used 10-20mg of anavar alongside hcg (last 75mg test injection was 2 weeks ago).

Libido was much higher than on test during the hcg blast, and anavar really helped maintain muscle at rhis tiny dose and my vascularity improved.

I also enjoyed no facial bloating.

May look into var/hcg in the future, although throwing some test prop on top is too tempting if i am gonna shut my self down anyway.

 

[Smont]

I think aside from the hormones you might wanna look into neurotransmitters. Dopamine, glutamate and serotonin effects on libido.

Just because you have tried so many different protocols I just think it's worthwhile to explore other things that play a role in libido outside of the usual suspects.

Also, a lot of guys use the word libido to describe Ed. But libido is just the desire, not the ability to perform.

So low libido, meaning not interested even tho performance is not a problem will be brain chemistry most of the time.

High libido but not being able to perform can be physical, hormonal or mental. And low libido combined with Ed can also be a combination of the 3.

Libido and sexual function is a very complex cascade of events. There's a million things that can disrupt it

 

[Smont]

I was sick and used 10-20mg of anavar alongside hcg (last 75mg test injection was 2 weeks ago).

Libido was much higher than on test during the hcg blast, and anavar really helped maintain muscle at rhis tiny dose and my vascularity improved.

I also enjoyed no facial bloating.

May look into var/hcg in the future, although throwing some test prop on top is too tempting if i am gonna shut my self down anyway.

Var does not really fit into what I was talking about. I'm talking about specifically using another member of the testosterone family or nandrolone to replace testosterone completely and making sure you have adequate amounts of estrogen. This would be accomplished with eq and hcg, or a very high dose of eq or nandrolone without hcg. It also potentially could be done with a very low dose of dbol with no HCG.

 

[Smont]

Var does not really fit into what I was talking about. I'm talking about specifically using another member of the testosterone family or nandrolone to replace testosterone completely and making sure you have adequate amounts of estrogen. This would be accomplished with eq and hcg, or a very high dose of eq or nandrolone without hcg. It also potentially could be done with a very low dose of dbol with no HCG.

I'm not by any means saying this is the right thing to do or it's going to solve the problem. I just know other ppl who do this because for some unknown reason they don't have any luck with testosterone.

 

[Kronic]

I hear a divorce can fix libido

 

[CroLifter]

Var does not really fit into what I was talking about. I'm talking about specifically using another member of the testosterone family or nandrolone to replace testosterone completely and making sure you have adequate amounts of estrogen. This would be accomplished with eq and hcg, or a very high dose of eq or nandrolone without hcg. It also potentially could be done with a very low dose of dbol with no HCG.

Regarding anavar, its just used as primsry anabolic in this case where hcg is used asa base. Its pretty powerful imo now that I have used it.

It just seems that in my case, and in case of some people, libido is tied to gonadal function and no amount of exogenous hormones can replace that. Be it through hcg or through natural lh.

As far as masteron goes, i used it, but its not worth the hair loss. I get some extra strength and carry less water, better physique, aggression but again no impact on libido.


As far as neurotransmitters, too much dopamine makes you a 2 pump chump. Hence ssri's make it harder to cum.
For example dapoxetine doesnt kill my libido, it just makes me last like a normal human.