Old Guy on Tren?

[Oldbro]

Greetings, I have a few questions for y'all regarding my current Test E/Deca cycle.
I'll start by giving a brief history of my past experiences;
I'm a 57 yo male who's been lifting on n off for the past 40 yrs. My first "cycle" was what I was told was Dbol when I was 17/18. Needless to say I had no idea what it really was, I was young and dumb AF....I recall making some size n strength gains. Probably did that for about 6 months. When I was in my mid 20s was introduced to an Anavar/Sustanon 250 stack. This resulted in significant size and weight gain. My supplier disappeared and so did all my progress. About 5 yrs ago I had my test levels checked and learned they were in the low range (don't recall numbers) doc prescribed 200mg every two weeks of Test Cyp. Needless to say didn't feel or see much of anything in terms of weight or strength gains.
7 weeks ago I started a Test E (500 mg) and Deca (400mg) a week broken into two doses. In that time I've put in a out 10 lbs and have a slight increase in strength. I can see a slight change in my physique, not nearly as dramatic a change that I was hoping for. About a week into this I found myself walking around in a fog all day, difficulty sleeping (average 4/6 hrs a night) on a positive note I'm horny af. I am eating your typical "bodybuilding" diet (3k calories) I haven't been drinking alcohol . Fortunately I am retired and am able to sit on the couch all day long. I train at 3 am to avoid the crowds and because I'm not sleeping. Was doing a bro split program. Switched to a upper/lower body split.
I am scheduled to get blood work next week. Hoping it will help give me some insight as to why I feel like ****.
I was told I should try a Test E Tren Dbol stack. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[klbsa]

You feel like dirt because you are retired and not focusing on any work...... I retired at 38 and by age 40-41 I felt like I was slowly dieing.... I sat around and did nothing but train 2 hours a day and I was miserable. Having 2 babies in 2 years broke me out of that feeling...... Basically I had a job to fucus on again as my wife was still working and I became a full time stay at home father of 2 little girls.

Start building furniture or something......Being retired isn't all it's cracked up to be.

 

[Brocodeout69]

Greetings, I have a few questions for y'all regarding my current Test E/Deca cycle.
I'll start by giving a brief history of my past experiences;
I'm a 57 yo male who's been lifting on n off for the past 40 yrs. My first "cycle" was what I was told was Dbol when I was 17/18. Needless to say I had no idea what it really was, I was young and dumb AF....I recall making some size n strength gains. Probably did that for about 6 months. When I was in my mid 20s was introduced to an Anavar/Sustanon 250 stack. This resulted in significant size and weight gain. My supplier disappeared and so did all my progress. About 5 yrs ago I had my test levels checked and learned they were in the low range (don't recall numbers) doc prescribed 200mg every two weeks of Test Cyp. Needless to say didn't feel or see much of anything in terms of weight or strength gains.
7 weeks ago I started a Test E (500 mg) and Deca (400mg) a week broken into two doses. In that time I've put in a out 10 lbs and have a slight increase in strength. I can see a slight change in my physique, not nearly as dramatic a change that I was hoping for. About a week into this I found myself walking around in a fog all day, difficulty sleeping (average 4/6 hrs a night) on a positive note I'm horny af. I am eating your typical "bodybuilding" diet (3k calories) I haven't been drinking alcohol . Fortunately I am retired and am able to sit on the couch all day long. I train at 3 am to avoid the crowds and because I'm not sleeping. Was doing a bro split program. Switched to a upper/lower body split.
I am scheduled to get blood work next week. Hoping it will help give me some insight as to why I feel like ****.
I was told I should try a Test E Tren Dbol stack. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

It sounds like you have lots of anabolic experience, both good and bad, but what about your diet & training?

I see that you're eating "3k calories," but nutritional quality matters. Are you eating fruits, vegetables, whole grains, good lean protein sources, and keeping your diet eclectic and nutritionally dense? Nutritional quality grows in importance as we age.

It also seems like your sleep is off. How you sleep effects your hormones levels, and just your overall well-being, especially as it relates to exercise recovery and your psychological/mental health. Working out at 3 AM, when retired, generally speaking probably isn't a great thing, because it's related to presumably a whole list of other health and lifestyle choices that aren't optimal. Your body would rest & recover more optimally if you got yourself on a sleep/wake schedule more aligned with the human bodies natural circadian rhythm.

Like @klbsa said, your quality of life could also be negatively hurting you. Retirement is a huge lifestyle shift, and it can have serious consequences on your overall well-being. Keeping yourself active and engaged, both physically and mentally, is an important component of aging healthily. Hobbies, outside of physical fitness, are a must, at least from my perspective.

How's your training? Aside from you doing an "upper and lower body split," how many days a week are you training, for how long and at what intensity? These variables will also have consequences on your overall health and general sense of well-being. Too much training, i.e., overtraining can cause way more problems than undertraining and can cause, or even make worse, serious issues.

Honestly, if I were you, I'd get to the root cause of what's causing you to feel off and work to overcome that, rather than contemplating to jet off onto another anabolic cycle. As you probably know, anabolics are a useful tool to compliment our training and life goals when our health, diet and training regimes are in check, and best used when we're at the top of our game.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck and let everyone know how your blood work goes!

 

[Mikereyn513]

You need to get back to a normal schedule. Your circadian rhythm is all messed up. Get up at 6am and go to bed by 9 or 10. There's other times the gym isn't crowded other than 3am. Your body clock is set by the sun that's why people who work graveyard shifts are zombies. And no no no tren that's the last thing you need. BTW you're not going to see progress as fast as you'd like no one does and you're also 57 it's going to take longer and you have to accept that. Gear isn't some magic juice that's going to get a from a to z without shipping steps it just helps you get through the steps.

 

[Oldbro]

I can't begin to tell y'all how much i appreciate the feedback.
I spent 30 years as a law enforcement officer, working a majority of those years on graveyard shifts. As a result i think I'm going to have to work through my denial and seek some counseling...
Is it possible the gear may be intensifying some of my head noise, resulting in my lethargy /sleep deprivation?? I have never been one to sleep more than 6 7 hrs max. I did notice the lack of energy dropped immensely shortly after starting my Test Deca cycle.
My diet isn't the best, cut all junk food and alcohol. Im pretty much just eating lean meats, whole grain pasta, rice, some greens and lots of protein shakes.
I'm training on average 5-6 days a week. I feel as though I'm training at about 99% intensity. No cardio, all weight training.
Again thank you all for responding, means a lot to me. I will post my blood results once I get them done.

 

[Brocodeout69]

I can't begin to tell y'all how much i appreciate the feedback.
I spent 30 years as a law enforcement officer, working a majority of those years on graveyard shifts. As a result i think I'm going to have to work through my denial and seek some counseling...
Is it possible the gear may be intensifying some of my head noise, resulting in my lethargy /sleep deprivation?? I have never been one to sleep more than 6 7 hrs max. I did notice the lack of energy dropped immensely shortly after starting my Test Deca cycle.
My diet isn't the best, cut all junk food and alcohol. Im pretty much just eating lean meats, whole grain pasta, rice, some greens and lots of protein shakes.
I'm training on average 5-6 days a week. I feel as though I'm training at about 99% intensity. No cardio, all weight training.
Again thank you all for responding, means a lot to me. I will post my blood results once I get them done.

Deca (nandrolone) can cause anxiety. Nandrolone enhances synaptic currents mediated by the GABAA receptor in the brain's hypothalamus, and thus can cause anxiety, sleep disturbances and other behavioral issues.

Any cycle, generally and regardless of the compounds being run, can cause issues similar to what you're experiencing. Coupled with your kind of crazy sleep schedule, it's probably only making things worse, in terms of how you're feeling.

I would suggest maybe dropping the gear/cycle, responsibly, and seeing if that resolves anything. There's nothing wrong with ending a cycle early, particular if it's making you feel like crap.

More generally I'd try varying your training intensity. You shouldn't be training at "99%" all the time. Meaning, keep up the motivation and the drive, but vary workout intensity. For example, alternate the frequency of your workouts (doing more, less, etc ), switch up your volume (lots of reps, fewer reps), vary your weight load (more weight, less weight).

And lastly, and this is just me, but I feel better, in terms of health, when I do cardio on cycle. Others don't, and have different opinions, but whenever I'm running anything, I try to do cardio 3-5 times per week, even when bulking up.

Hopefully this helps you out!

 

[Mikereyn513]

Deca (nandrolone) can cause anxiety. Nandrolone enhances synaptic currents mediated by the GABAA receptor in the brain's hypothalamus, and thus can cause anxiety, sleep disturbances and other behavioral issues.

Any cycle, generally and regardless of the compounds being run, can cause issues similar to what you're experiencing. Coupled with your kind of crazy sleep schedule, it's probably only making things worse, in terms of how you're feeling.

I would suggest maybe dropping the gear/cycle, responsibly, and seeing if that resolves anything. There's nothing wrong with ending a cycle early, particular if it's making you feel like crap.

More generally I'd try varying your training intensity. You shouldn't be training at "99%" all the time. Meaning, keep up the motivation and the drive, but vary workout intensity. For example, alternate the frequency of your workouts (doing more, less, etc ), switch up your volume (lots of reps, fewer reps), vary your weight load (more weight, less weight).

And lastly, and this is just me, but I feel better, in terms of health, when I do cardio on cycle. Others don't, and have different opinions, but whenever I'm running anything, I try to do cardio 3-5 times per week, even when bulking up.

Hopefully this helps you out!

That's a great point! I forgot deca causes anxiety in a lot of people. I know why big Paul from anabolic bodybuilding doesn't use it. As someone who does suffer from anxiety I lucked out when it comes to deca because it doesn't do that to me so I didn't even consider that here

 

[Smont]

I can't begin to tell y'all how much i appreciate the feedback.
I spent 30 years as a law enforcement officer, working a majority of those years on graveyard shifts. As a result i think I'm going to have to work through my denial and seek some counseling...
Is it possible the gear may be intensifying some of my head noise, resulting in my lethargy /sleep deprivation?? I have never been one to sleep more than 6 7 hrs max. I did notice the lack of energy dropped immensely shortly after starting my Test Deca cycle.
My diet isn't the best, cut all junk food and alcohol. Im pretty much just eating lean meats, whole grain pasta, rice, some greens and lots of protein shakes.
I'm training on average 5-6 days a week. I feel as though I'm training at about 99% intensity. No cardio, all weight training.
Again thank you all for responding, means a lot to me. I will post my blood results once I get them done.

He's a cop, everybody's scatter!

 

[Smont]

Lol

 

[Smont]

I feel like over the years everybody picks a random steroid and says it causes anxiety. I really think the truth of the matter lies in that anytime you disrupt your hormones it can cause anxiety and it doesn't matter what compound you're choosing. For years people said EQ causes anxiety and I've never experienced it, but then I could just drop down to my trt dose after a cycle and get anxiety really bad, well it's probably the hormonal fluctuation.

I just think anytime you increase or decrease total androgens in your body there is a likelihood that you may experience some anxiety and it doesn't really matter what compound is in the mix.

With that being said, if you notice every time you take a certain compound it causes anxiety well stay away from that one compound

 

[johnny412]

He's a cop, everybody's scatter!

maybe he can bust the new starscream in this post lol

 

[botk1161]

I am 55 and did just my first cycle after being on TRT for a year. It taught me that gear does not do anywhere near what I thought it would. It was a blessing in disguise. Cause I am now focused on the basics that I absolutely know won't be negated by gear (or anything else other than my disipline). Now I am making strides like never before. So consider this a wake up call. Jump into your mental, physical and spiritual health focusing on the basics and enjoy the journey. Take your time. I would not do more than a TRT dose of test for now. All the best.

 

[Hyde]

It always amazes me when people don’t realize gear & size generally make you feel worse. They will deny it to themselves all day long, but then act surprised when they return to cruise and a month later they feel better than ever.

Growing takes a lot of energy. Gear overdrives all kinds of metabolic processes that produce more waste and higher oxidative levels. Even a natural lifter training & eating to grow is going to experience some lethargy, and they’re not even getting bogged down with factors like water retention & elevated blood pressure (which can also drive feelings of anxiety btw). Just being heavier will make you more tired. A thicker neck from bigger neck muscles and/or higher bodyweight worsens sleep quality/drives apnea, resulting in less restoration for the hours spent in bed (if you don’t have a CPAP).

Every 20lbs of bodyweight for me is like being on a different planet. How fast I can sprint, high I can jump, ease of walking around between 220 and 265 is night/day. At 265 it’s difficult to just sit upright, or stand at all. At 220 it’s like walking on clouds I feel so light.

At 57, you probably need to focus on recomping when you blast. Pushing bodyweight is never healthy, and blasting in your late 50s is just asking for health complications as it is.

 

[Renew1]

It always amazes me when people don’t realize gear & size generally make you feel worse. They will deny it to themselves all day long, but then act surprised when they return to cruise and a month later they feel better than ever.

Growing takes a lot of energy. Gear overdrives all kinds of metabolic processes that produce more waste and higher oxidative levels. Even a natural lifter training & eating to grow is going to experience some lethargy, and they’re not even getting bogged down with factors like water retention & elevated blood pressure (which can also drive feelings of anxiety btw). Just being heavier will make you more tired. A thicker neck from bigger neck muscles and/or higher bodyweight worsens sleep quality/drives apnea, resulting in less restoration for the hours spent in bed (if you don’t have a CPAP).

Every 20lbs of bodyweight for me is like being on a different planet. How fast I can sprint, high I can jump, ease of walking around between 220 and 265 is night/day. At 265 it’s difficult to just sit upright, or stand at all. At 220 it’s like walking on clouds I feel so light.

At 57, you probably need to focus on recomping when you blast. Pushing bodyweight is never healthy, and blasting in your late 50s is just asking for health complications as it is.

^^^^

 

[Mikereyn513]

It always amazes me when people don’t realize gear & size generally make you feel worse. They will deny it to themselves all day long, but then act surprised when they return to cruise and a month later they feel better than ever.

Growing takes a lot of energy. Gear overdrives all kinds of metabolic processes that produce more waste and higher oxidative levels. Even a natural lifter training & eating to grow is going to experience some lethargy, and they’re not even getting bogged down with factors like water retention & elevated blood pressure (which can also drive feelings of anxiety btw). Just being heavier will make you more tired. A thicker neck from bigger neck muscles and/or higher bodyweight worsens sleep quality/drives apnea, resulting in less restoration for the hours spent in bed (if you don’t have a CPAP).

Every 20lbs of bodyweight for me is like being on a different planet. How fast I can sprint, high I can jump, ease of walking around between 220 and 265 is night/day. At 265 it’s difficult to just sit upright, or stand at all. At 220 it’s like walking on clouds I feel so light.

At 57, you probably need to focus on recomping when you blast. Pushing bodyweight is never healthy, and blasting in your late 50s is just asking for health complications as it is.

Damn so I can't blast when I'm 57!?! Damn I'm 41 now so I better get on it lol

 

[Hyde]

Damn so I can't blast when I'm 57!?! Damn I'm 41 now so I better get on it lol

You can do anything you want in this life…you only get one. But you do only get one, so you have to weigh what makes you happy vs the increasing risks of no longer being around to even try to be happy from a cardiac event.

The body won’t tolerate the stress of blasted anabolics the same as you age. Look how people in their early 20s can tolerate orals…who do you know that’s 40+ that can eat them the same as when younger? Look at a “kid” using high doses of gear, compared to a 50 year old. The 50 year old will have worse blood pressure, lipids, subjectively report feeling worse. Meanwhile, the risk of heart attacks & stroke are already higher. And the more you blast AAS, the more mg you will need for less new results. Plus the connective tissue often can’t take the loading necessary to move into new realms. Nobody in a Masters division has legs like the guys winning Open divisions.

As you get older, the doses should come down and the focus to shift to staying in better shape & muscle retention, not adding lots of new mass. Think more like blasts that resemble HRT+ type regiments, or just staying on a hotter cruise indefinitely.

There is a an expiration date to all of this. You are on a clock.

 

[Hyde]

Boy what a Debbie Downer post

I just want to add that I’m not even saying you shouldn’t blast in your late 50s, just that the classic size-building mode of a real bulk is probably a bad plan. Someone very lean, who maintains good lipids, blood pressure, glucose levels/insulin sensitivity, & cardiovascular fitness with a more moderate bodyweight can use gear radically safer than someone heavier, fatter, less fit, & with a loose diet.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Boy what a Debbie Downer post

I just want to add that I’m not even saying you shouldn’t blast in your late 50s, just that the classic size-building mode of a real bulk is probably a bad plan. Someone very lean, who maintains good lipids, blood pressure, glucose levels/insulin sensitivity, & cardiovascular fitness with a more moderate bodyweight can use gear radically safer than someone heavier, fatter, less fit, & with a loose diet.

Lol...it's all good bro obviously I'm not going to be doing 300 mg of tren a week and eating anadrol like skittles when Im in my 50s. I figure if I'm still around by then it'll be test and gh with some primo here and there just to stay strong and still look decent

 

[Oldbro]

"He's a cop everyone scatter"
My intentions were, like everyone else I'd assume, was to put on the most lean muscle I can and eventually taper down and go natural. It's a real mind f#&+ to think that my anabolic door has shut and that my physique is what it is. I will finish this cycle and re-think my plan. I was starting to think the gear was some bath tub recipe.... Again, thank you all for interjecting. Lots to think about.

 

[Hyde]

"He's a cop everyone scatter"
My intentions were, like everyone else I'd assume, was to put on the most lean muscle I can and eventually taper down and go natural. It's a real mind f#&+ to think that my anabolic door has shut and that my physique is what it is. I will finish this cycle and re-think my plan. I was starting to think the gear was some bath tub recipe.... Again, thank you all for interjecting. Lots to think about.

You can still build some muscle and absolutely can get leaner while retaining muscle, you just need to consider a longer, lower, slower dosing approach. Depending on bloodwork, you might be able to run something like 4-500mg total weekly of some combination of testosterone and either primo, masteron, nandrolone or equipoise for a long time. And adding HGH would be very helpful here too if you are leaner and don’t have pre-existing blood glucose issues or already high levels. And staying on a clinic-supervised actual HRT regiment year round and really focusing on diet.

At 57, you’re not going to have natural testosterone levels that will support a great artificial physique and keep many gains from blasting, most likely. So being on TRT with modest blasts is probably going to be a safer way to get what you’re after.

As always, diet is #1 dictator of growth or fat loss. You can’t build muscle with steroids if there aren’t enough calories, and likewise you won’t lean out in a surplus.

 

[sammpedd88]

Greetings, I have a few questions for y'all regarding my current Test E/Deca cycle.
I'll start by giving a brief history of my past experiences;
I'm a 57 yo male who's been lifting on n off for the past 40 yrs. My first "cycle" was what I was told was Dbol when I was 17/18. Needless to say I had no idea what it really was, I was young and dumb AF....I recall making some size n strength gains. Probably did that for about 6 months. When I was in my mid 20s was introduced to an Anavar/Sustanon 250 stack. This resulted in significant size and weight gain. My supplier disappeared and so did all my progress. About 5 yrs ago I had my test levels checked and learned they were in the low range (don't recall numbers) doc prescribed 200mg every two weeks of Test Cyp. Needless to say didn't feel or see much of anything in terms of weight or strength gains.
7 weeks ago I started a Test E (500 mg) and Deca (400mg) a week broken into two doses. In that time I've put in a out 10 lbs and have a slight increase in strength. I can see a slight change in my physique, not nearly as dramatic a change that I was hoping for. About a week into this I found myself walking around in a fog all day, difficulty sleeping (average 4/6 hrs a night) on a positive note I'm horny af. I am eating your typical "bodybuilding" diet (3k calories) I haven't been drinking alcohol . Fortunately I am retired and am able to sit on the couch all day long. I train at 3 am to avoid the crowds and because I'm not sleeping. Was doing a bro split program. Switched to a upper/lower body split.
I am scheduled to get blood work next week. Hoping it will help give me some insight as to why I feel like ****.
I was told I should try a Test E Tren Dbol stack. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Just a few questions.

How much do you weigh?
How tall?
What’s your body fat %?

You say you’re eating a body building diet but how clean is it?

Are you doing cardio and if so how often and how intense?

How long did you take the 200 mgs of test cyp? (BTW 200 mgs every two weeks is a shitty out dated protocol. If you’re still seeing that dr, run as fast as you can and find a dr that is educated on proper TRT.

 

[Quest]

Great thread!!