OL Triumph vs PES Ergonine

Bulking - Tr1umph
Cutting - Ergonine

If simply maintaining, I'd say go with the one you have some sales,or deals going on,products are very similar,so why not pick something that will save you a couple of bucks.
 
Jiigzz said:
I think I must be having a bad day, and it's only 8am :(

I will be honest, I read OLs profile under the guise that it was VERY similar to PES's. It isn't, aside from a couple of overlapping ingredients. GNO's post made it clear it was more like a merger which makes complete sense. I like it when there is challenge in a supplement category, for obvious reasons. But I honestly read Tr1umph as only being ONE ingredient change different, it isn't so I take it all back, lol.

I should also clarify that in no way do I think OL is a copycat business, in fact their profiles are among the BEST in the industry currently. Just in terms of a daily supp, my loyalty lies with PES :D
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I use their products, but OL without a doubt is a copycat company. They take something and make it better. But almost ALL of their products contain ingredients after someone else has put them out. They don't innovate, they re create. But they do it extremely well
 
mechka_grizli said:
I use their products, but OL without a doubt is a copycat company. They take something and make it better. But almost ALL of their products contain ingredients after someone else has put them out. They don't inovate that re create. But they do it extremely well
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Wait for or1gin...
 
Tr1umph for sure, PA is the best ingredient in both formula and only Tr1umph as it. I don t know about the price do
 
mechka_grizli said:
I use their products, but OL without a doubt is a copycat company. They take something and make it better. But almost ALL of their products contain ingredients after someone else has put them out. They don't inovate that re create. But they do it extremely well
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Please aware me on which company was using J.Rgia prior to the release of Conqu3r Unleashed.

Also keep in mind that a supplement company isn't necessarily going to bring products with 100% new ingredients to the market. We all know there are both tried & tested ingredients and effective but underutilized ingredients out there. You don't necessarily need to reinvent the wheel to make a good product.
 
GNO said:
Please aware me on which company was using J.Rgia prior to the release of Conqu3r Unleashed.

Also keep in mind that a supplement company isn't necessarily going to bring products with 100% new ingredients to the market. We all know there are both tried & tested ingredients and effective but underutilized ingredients out there. You don't necessarily need to reinvent the wheel to make a good product.
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Valid statement on both points. My only point is to say that almost all of OL products come out shortly after another company has released something similar. Now again I USE AND ENJOY OL PRODUCTS. This is not an attack. But examples include the release of Epic after BLR released Folli. The release of LJ100 after BLR released Viron. Testify has anacylus, (anabeta) ksm66 and abieta. The latter 2 aren't new to the supp game but was used by PES together not too long before Testify began being talked about. Its also clear that Tr1umph is a mirror of Pes Ergonine. You guys used their alanine/glutamine combo. Which to my knowledge they were the first to include for the reasons they explained. Even the aframomum that they used in the Shift reformulation

Again not attacks but reality. I personally have used almost all of OL products and loved each one.
 
mechka_grizli said:
Valid statement on both points. My only point is to say that almost all of OL products come out shortly after another company has released something similar. Now again I USE AND ENJOY OL PRODUCTS. This is not an attack. But examples include the release of Epic after BLR released Folli. The release of LJ100 after BLR released Viron. Testify has anacylus, (anabeta) ksm66 and abieta. The latter 2 aren't new to the supp game but was used by PES together not too long before Testify began being talked about. Its also clear that Tr1umph is a mirror of Pes Ergonine. You guys used their alanine/glutamine combo. Which to my knowledge they were the first to include for the reasons they explained.

Again not attacks but reality. I personally have used almost all of OL products and loved each one.
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Fair enough. However, I would not use the word 'copy'. You noted the similarities between our products and the competition, but what about the differences?
EP1C - enhanced absorption
LJ100 - Patented extract, purest form of Tongkat Ali
TR1UMPH - It is an SL focused supplement, the ergogenic matrix is not the feature but rather an enhancement to the formula
TEST1FY - multiple products in one for a fraction of the price, sounds great to me!
 
GNO said:
Fair enough. However, I would not use the word 'copy'. You noted the similarities between our products and the competition, but what about the differences?
EP1C - enhanced absorption
LJ100 - Patented extract, purest form of Tongkat Ali
TR1UMPH - It is an SL focused supplement, the ergogenic matrix is not the feature but rather an enhancement to the formula
TEST1FY - multiple products in one for a fraction of the price, sounds great to me!
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All products are great. I have a stash of OL, that I personally think, would rival anyone's (minus reps). But I did say in my first post that you guys do am exceptional job of making a good product, an excellent product
 
The entire supplement industry "copies" - I don't know of any supplement company that has a team of botanists scouring the Amazon and running plants through HPLC analysis, discovering something "new" for the fitness community. They all scour PubMed et. al. looking for fitness keywords and then source the raw component/s to put in a bottle. I believe Nestle, not a supp company, was involved in the initial -(-)epi research for Sarcopenia?
 
The_Old_Guy said:
The entire supplement industry "copies" - I don't know of any supplement company that has a team of botanists scouring the Amazon and running plants through HPLC analysis, discovering something "new" for the fitness community. They all scour PubMed et. al. looking for fitness keywords and then source the raw component/s to put in a bottle. I believe Nestle, not a supp company, was involved in the initial -(-)epi research for Sarcopenia?
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Again true enough but we all know that there are companies who are first to market a certain ingredient. As far as I know PES was the first to use Anacylus and abieta. And BLR with epi. Who I might add was destroyed on the forums for his claims, even from companies who later used it in one of their formulas. (Not OL)

Using the nestle example doesn't really count because im sure they were looking at it for its health benefits and not for the endurance,muscle fullness, strength gains that we use it for.
 
mechka_grizli said:
Again true enough but we all know that there are companies who are first to market a certain ingredient. As far as I know PES was the first to use Anacylus and abieta. And BLR with epi. Who I might add was destroyed on the forums for his claims, even from companies who later used it in one of their formulas. (Not OL)

Using the nestle example doesn't really count because im sure they were looking at it for its health benefits and not for the endurance,muscle fullness, strength gains that we use it for.
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The human trial (if you can call it that) looked at hand grip strength and Follistatin to Myostatin ratio (ie. Gainnnnzzzzz :D). And if you remember, that was EXACTLY what the marketing copy promoted when -(-)epi came out. Of course, it was a massive failure in both those departments in youngish, resistance trained athletes - so all you hear about now is endurance and 'general health' claims. We can disagree, but I'd say the Nestle comparison is apropos.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
The human trial (if you can call it that) looked at hand grip strength and Follistatin to Myostatin ratio (ie. Gainnnnzzzzz :D). And if you remember, that was EXACTLY what the marketing copy promoted when -(-)epi came out. Of course, it was a massive failure in both those departments in youngish, resistance trained athletes - so all you hear about now is endurance and 'general health' claims. We can disagree, but I'd say the Nestle comparison is apropos.
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My statement was saying that nestle isn't out there promoting they're chocolate saying eat this and you'll increase your grip strength, and get stronger. Even if they looked into it
 
mechka_grizli said:
Again true enough but we all know that there are companies who are first to market a certain ingredient. As far as I know PES was the first to use Anacylus and abieta. And BLR with epi. Who I might add was destroyed on the forums for his claims, even from companies who later used it in one of their formulas. (Not OL)

Using the nestle example doesn't really count because im sure they were looking at it for its health benefits and not for the endurance,muscle fullness, strength gains that we use it for.
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The claims were false and extreme hyperbole even though the company that used the ingredient later released a product with it. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. If I remember right one of the claims was something along the lines of multiple trained lifters increasing their deadlifts 100 pounds after 4 days of use. Calling out that type of junk doesn't mean the ingredient doesn't have benefit. It's just keeping direct lies and expectations in check.
 
mechka_grizli said:
My statement was saying that nestle isn't out there promoting they're chocolate saying eat this and you'll increase your grip strength, and get stronger. Even if they looked into it
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I want to be careful here, because I haven't gone back and looked at the details, but the -(-)epi was specifically studied for Sarcopenia. It was either Nestle, or a Drug Company that was first on the scene. So IMO, it most certainly was looked at for "muscle" related properties. I agree with you that it wasn't targeted at 19yo gym rats.
 
mechka_grizli said:
Again true enough but we all know that there are companies who are first to market a certain ingredient. As far as I know PES was the first to use Anacylus and abieta. And BLR with epi. Who I might add was destroyed on the forums for his claims, even from companies who later used it in one of their formulas. (Not OL)

Using the nestle example doesn't really count because im sure they were looking at it for its health benefits and not for the endurance,muscle fullness, strength gains that we use it for.
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Well no, give credit where its due, Evomuse was first to use (-)-epicatechin in an OTC supp in Myosynergy. I know of a number of people testing the ingredient well before it came on the market.

We use effective ingredients, trial them, test them together and build effective products. Tell me how many other companies do that? Count them on one hand. Its irrelevant if other Supplement companies are using something, they didn't discover it, ran trials to show their potential. No, most likely they read a piece of paper with some text on it.

Reality.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Well no, give credit where its due, Evomuse was first to use (-)-epicatechin in an OTC supp in Myosynergy. I know of a number of people testing the ingredient well before it came on the market.

We use effective ingredients, trial them, test them together and build effective products. Tell me how many other companies do that? Count them on one hand. Its irrelevant if other Supplement companies are using something, they didn't discover it, ran trials to show their potential. No, most likely they read a piece of paper with some text on it.

Reality.
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I respect Evomuse and Matt deeply. But if memory serves me correctly, Folli was out first. But both Matt and Brundel had already spoken about epi before either was released.

And again I respect the thought you guys put into formulating. Again I stress, I AM A HUGE OL fan
 
Taking what is currently out and improving is fine by me. I love the originators, but I don't really mind if someone releases an improved copy of it.
 
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