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Ok, now im confused as ****.. I need some Advice!!

ali11atc

New member
Ok, 2 months of researching and i finally started my SD cycle 10/20/20 this past monday. After 5 days and eating 3500 cals, high carbs, low fat, mod protein i have gained 7lbs in 5 days! Also drinking 1.5 gallons of water a day.

No sides, execept for lethargy and low sex drive.

Can Someone Please help me with my PCT!! I have all sups in hand but i have someone telling me in another Forum that my PCT is overkill for a 3 week SD at such low dosages.

My PCT is as follows: Nolva 40/30/20/10 RXT 25/50/50/75 Reduce XT 4 caps/ 3 caps/ 2 caps/ 1 cap. Fenugreek 2.0/3.0/4.0/5.0

Im getting mixed answers here that my PCT looks good and that Running a SERM with an AI with my current cycle is way too much!! I have all sups in hand, now im thinking about changing my PCT to the same as above but with out the AI (RXT).

Can someone give me some advice if what im doing is to much and if so what would be suffice.. I have all PCT Supps on hand and am also running all pre load supps thoughout cycle and PCT.

Stats, 23, 5-10, 172lb, 13%BF.
 
ali11atc said:
My PCT is as follows: Nolva 40/30/20/10 RXT 25/50/50/75 Reduce XT 4 caps/ 3 caps/ 2 caps/ 1 cap. Fenugreek 2.0/3.0/4.0/5.0
Click to expand...
Nolva: 40/20/20!!! End of story. Many use the other stuff because it is available. We used to live without it ;)

I am not giving you advice on what to do. At the end of the day, you are a big boy, and should be able to make a decision for yourself. :)
 
I'm not an expert by any stretch but I don't think overkill should be a concern. You're doing some powerful things to your body and you want to preserve the good and stave off the bad. I'd err on the side of caution and if that seems overkill to some, so be it.
 
ali11atc said:
Ok, 2 months of researching and i finally started my SD cycle 10/20/20 this past monday. After 5 days and eating 3500 cals, high carbs, low fat, mod protein i have gained 7lbs in 5 days!
Click to expand...
And as we discussed before there may be no need to go to 20mgs. You have gained 7lbs in 5 days. Three weeks at 10mg will not kill you. Use more when you have PROOF for yourself that you need more. Is this your one and only shot at this? LEARN SOMETHING WHILE YOU ARE AT IT!
 
No, its not my only shot at this, but im only asking these questions for my own benefit B5150! You should shine on those who research and prepare themselves and that is what im doing.

Im plan on taking 2 months off and running another 3 week sd cycle probably at the same dosage.


But i appreciate your reply and advice you have given me on previous posts,

I aslo thought that running Nolva/RXT/Redcue XT was not overkill and just better safe than sorry but i guess i was wrong..
 
I'm with B5150, more is not necessarily better. I think you could cut back on the Lean XT also, 2 caps per day throughout. Typically time "ON" = time for "PCT", but I'd sooner have overkill in PCT than when "ON".
 
ali11atc said:
No, its not my only shot at this, but im only asking these questions for my own benefit B5150! You should shine on those who research and prepare themselves and that is what im doing.

Im plan on taking 2 months off and running another 3 week sd cycle probably at the same dosage.


But i appreciate your reply and advice you have given me on previous posts,

I aslo thought that running Nolva/RXT/Redcue XT was not overkill and just better safe than sorry but i guess i was wrong..
Click to expand...
I have respect for your reseach effort. But I think that sometimes you may misunderstand some things. I never said it was overkill. Yes, safe is better than sorry. I never said you were wrong. What I am getting at is that what everyone else does does not constitute what you should do. Many don't use a fraction of what is available OTC and do just fine. You get credit for being cautious and very inquisitive :)
 
Overkill is a concern.
All you need to use is nolvadex. If you would like to use Rebound XT then use it during the last 10 days of the cycle and the first 7 days of post cycle.

Fenugeek is fine.
 
see, this is where I am learning.. I thought with such a harsh AAS that using a SERM with an AI was a must.. But i guess either or will be just fine. I think im just gona go ahead with the Nolva and save the RXT for another cycle.

Since i have you all.. Here is something i have been doing some research on but really cannont find an answer to my question. From reading numerous threads, some people on SD experience a high sex drive and some are non existant and are shooting blanks.. I guess a low libido is something i have to deal with while on cycle and is why a proper PCT is so important.. But i have noticed during my 1 week on cycle that my sperm has not been as heavy and i have no desire to masturbate or have sex.. How concerned should i be and what can i do to help my situation.. I do not have clomid on hand...
 
ali11atc said:
see, this is where I am learning.. I thought with such a harsh AAS that using a SERM with an AI was a must.. But i guess either or will be just fine. I think im just gona go ahead with the Nolva and save the RXT for another cycle.

Since i have you all.. Here is something i have been doing some research on but really cannont find an answer to my question. From reading numerous threads, some people on SD experience a high sex drive and some are non existant and are shooting blanks.. I guess a low libido is something i have to deal with while on cycle and is why a proper PCT is so important.. But i have noticed during my 1 week on cycle that my sperm has not been as heavy and i have no desire to masturbate or have sex.. How concerned should i be and what can i do to help my situation.. I do not have clomid on hand...
Click to expand...
maca root
 
Check out this post by DrD that Beowulf pointed out to me yesterday. Invalid Link Removed Everyone has an opinion on this and that is why you find it confusing. You have to figure out what is good for YOU...that is done by researching the trials of others as well as writeups. Then applying those (one at a time) in order to see how you react. I would take B5150's advice first. Start off with Nolva and work from there. If you throw in more than one thing at the start, how will you ever gain knowledge on a specific compound with respect to your body?
 
ali11atc said:
I thought with such a harsh AAS that using a SERM with an AI was a must.. But i guess either or will be just fine. I think im just gona go ahead with the Nolva and save the RXT for another cycle.

I guess a low libido is something i have to deal with while on cycle and is why a proper PCT is so important.. But i have noticed during my 1 week on cycle that my sperm has not been as heavy and i have no desire to masturbate or have sex.. How concerned should i be and what can i do to help my situation..
Click to expand...
People, many very unexperienced use the term harsh without very little data to back it up. SD's hepatotoxicity is not very high if used in moderation with safety in mind. All methylated substances are hepatotoxic as well as tylenol and alcohol. During periods of use of SD you will place an increase of stress on your liver. This also happens when you drink too much and use tylenol. So to suggest it is some harsh stuff is kind of relative. I have data that shows absolutely no change to my ALT/AST/GGT profile while on up to 50mgs, using 600mg ALA and 1.5g NAC. This of course is my body and not a blanket statement for everyone.

SD will hit your lipid profile quite dramatically. Again, many use the word harsh with not realtive data to support it. Many steroids effect your lipid profile. Some to greater degree than others. While on your numbers will become skewed raising your LDL and dropping your HDL. Cholesterol is regulated partly through liver function. So it stands to reason that this will happen. After the dicontinuation of SD your lipid profile will gradually restore itself. There are various diiet tools that will expidite this process. Using healthy EFA like FO/XVOO/FLAX etc will be a good idea while on (as is always a good idea to use) and can help slightly reduce the degredation of your lipids while on and improve the restoration post cycle. Many use polycosanols, RYR, etc to improve the recovery time and process.

The above may or may not be a problem. Pre cycle blood work is paramount to establishing a baseline for your healthy levels and or pre-existant metabolic issuse. If you have no pre bloodwork you do not know where you are and if you have no post bloodwork you have no idea how you responded and what may need to help you recover. You could be atking a whole bunch of stuff that you don't need. Sure they are healthy, cautious, safety conscious, but you are shooting in the dark and are really uninformed. Al the money people spend on their front load of 'safety supplements' could and should be used to get bloodwork. I am not saying don't use them, but I am saying that you are uninformed without the bloodwork. Post cycle bloodwork will afford you the same.

As far as SERMs amd PCT. All steroids will cause suppression to some degree. Some more than others. Suppression will result in a reduced libido, ejaculate volume, etc etc. Them are the breaks. That is what happend with steroid use. You can bust your ass trying to offset this if you chose, but in the end it is a reality that it will effect you to one degree or another. In your case we are talking about three weeks on. Three weeks! Unless your hand is surgically attached to your penis or you are a pron star that needs to perform you can leave the penis alone for 21 days ...no?

You do need to restore your HPTA after a cycle. That is important. restoring your healthy natural test levels is critical to your gain retains as well as many other areas of health. This is what a SERM is for. But again, testicle size, ejaculate volume, libido are no indication of restore HPTA. Only bloodwork with accurately indicate this.

The issues above are three distinctly different isssues. Lipid, liver, and HPTA are seperate items. HPTA is a given with steroids and is a must to restore in PCT. To what degree you are suppressed is relative to your own body and the suppressive nature of the androgen. Again...bloodwork. You are young and if you follow a healthy PCT you will have little to no problem with PCT. For that matter you have the highest test level of your life now without steroids. You really have no need for them in the first place.

Anyway...
 
B5150 said:
People, many very unexperienced use the term harsh without very little data to back it up. SD's hepatotoxicity is not very high if used in moderation with safety in mind. All methylated substances are hepatotoxic as well as tylenol and alcohol. During periods of use of SD you will place an increase of stress on your liver. This also happens when you drink too much and use tylenol. So to suggest it is some harsh stuff is kind of relative. I have data that shows absolutely no change to my ALT/AST/GGT profile while on up to 50mgs, using 600mg ALA and 1.5g NAC. This of course is my body and not a blanket statement for everyone.

SD will hit your lipid profile quite dramatically. Again, many use the word harsh with not realtive data to support it. Many steroids effect your lipid profile. Some to greater degree than others. While on your numbers will become skewed raising your LDL and dropping your HDL. Cholesterol is regulated partly through liver function. So it stands to reason that this will happen. After the dicontinuation of SD your lipid profile will gradually restore itself. There are various diiet tools that will expidite this process. Using healthy EFA like FO/XVOO/FLAX etc will be a good idea while on (as is always a good idea to use) and can help slightly reduce the degredation of your lipids while on and improve the restoration post cycle. Many use polycosanols, RYR, etc to improve the recovery time and process.

The above may or may not be a problem. Pre cycle blood work is paramount to establishing a baseline for your healthy levels and or pre-existant metabolic issuse. If you have no pre bloodwork you do not know where you are and if you have no post bloodwork you have no idea how you responded and what may need to help you recover. You could be atking a whole bunch of stuff that you don't need. Sure they are healthy, cautious, safety conscious, but you are shooting in the dark and are really uninformed. Al the money people spend on their front load of 'safety supplements' could and should be used to get bloodwork. I am not saying don't use them, but I am saying that you are uninformed without the bloodwork. Post cycle bloodwork will afford you the same.

As far as SERMs amd PCT. All steroids will cause suppression to some degree. Some more than others. Suppression will result in a reduced libido, ejaculate volume, etc etc. Them are the breaks. That is what happend with steroid use. You can bust your ass trying to offset this if you chose, but in the end it is a reality that it will effect you to one degree or another. In your case we are talking about three weeks on. Three weeks! Unless your hand is surgically attached to your penis or you are a pron star that needs to perform you can leave the penis alone for 21 days ...no?

You do need to restore your HPTA after a cycle. That is important. restoring your healthy natural test levels is critical to your gain retains as well as many other areas of health. This is what a SERM is for. But again, testicle size, ejaculate volume, libido are no indication of restore HPTA. Only bloodwork with accurately indicate this.

The issues above are three distinctly different isssues. Lipid, liver, and HPTA are seperate items. HPTA is a given with steroids and is a must to restore in PCT. To what degree you are suppressed is relative to your own body and the suppressive nature of the androgen. Again...bloodwork. You are young and if you follow a healthy PCT you will have little to no problem with PCT. For that matter you have the highest test level of your life now without steroids. You really have no need for them in the first place.

Anyway...
Click to expand...

:goodpost:
 
I would think that most of the products used for PCT would be benefitial so what are the concerns with doing to much for PCT?
 
Here is what I am understanding here - for PCT I need the following (RIGHT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?)
Designer Supplements:
Rebount XT -----> 2 bottles (I am throwing out PCT from AX, but using their RETAIN product & Perfect Cycle product)
ActivaTe---------->
Testo Fen-----> to increase natural test (or other Fenugreek)
Lean Extreme ---> help fat loss
 
B5150 said:
People, many very unexperienced use the term harsh without very little data to back it up. SD's hepatotoxicity is not very high if used in moderation with safety in mind. All methylated substances are hepatotoxic as well as tylenol and alcohol. During periods of use of SD you will place an increase of stress on your liver. This also happens when you drink too much and use tylenol. So to suggest it is some harsh stuff is kind of relative. I have data that shows absolutely no change to my ALT/AST/GGT profile while on up to 50mgs, using 600mg ALA and 1.5g NAC. This of course is my body and not a blanket statement for everyone.

SD will hit your lipid profile quite dramatically. Again, many use the word harsh with not realtive data to support it. Many steroids effect your lipid profile. Some to greater degree than others. While on your numbers will become skewed raising your LDL and dropping your HDL. Cholesterol is regulated partly through liver function. So it stands to reason that this will happen. After the dicontinuation of SD your lipid profile will gradually restore itself. There are various diiet tools that will expidite this process. Using healthy EFA like FO/XVOO/FLAX etc will be a good idea while on (as is always a good idea to use) and can help slightly reduce the degredation of your lipids while on and improve the restoration post cycle. Many use polycosanols, RYR, etc to improve the recovery time and process.

The above may or may not be a problem. Pre cycle blood work is paramount to establishing a baseline for your healthy levels and or pre-existant metabolic issuse. If you have no pre bloodwork you do not know where you are and if you have no post bloodwork you have no idea how you responded and what may need to help you recover. You could be atking a whole bunch of stuff that you don't need. Sure they are healthy, cautious, safety conscious, but you are shooting in the dark and are really uninformed. Al the money people spend on their front load of 'safety supplements' could and should be used to get bloodwork. I am not saying don't use them, but I am saying that you are uninformed without the bloodwork. Post cycle bloodwork will afford you the same.

As far as SERMs amd PCT. All steroids will cause suppression to some degree. Some more than others. Suppression will result in a reduced libido, ejaculate volume, etc etc. Them are the breaks. That is what happend with steroid use. You can bust your ass trying to offset this if you chose, but in the end it is a reality that it will effect you to one degree or another. In your case we are talking about three weeks on. Three weeks! Unless your hand is surgically attached to your penis or you are a pron star that needs to perform you can leave the penis alone for 21 days ...no?

You do need to restore your HPTA after a cycle. That is important. restoring your healthy natural test levels is critical to your gain retains as well as many other areas of health. This is what a SERM is for. But again, testicle size, ejaculate volume, libido are no indication of restore HPTA. Only bloodwork with accurately indicate this.

The issues above are three distinctly different isssues. Lipid, liver, and HPTA are seperate items. HPTA is a given with steroids and is a must to restore in PCT. To what degree you are suppressed is relative to your own body and the suppressive nature of the androgen. Again...bloodwork. You are young and if you follow a healthy PCT you will have little to no problem with PCT. For that matter you have the highest test level of your life now without steroids. You really have no need for them in the first place.

Anyway...[I pretty much just wrote a killer post and owned everybody! :D ]
Click to expand...
:bow28:
 
I did not think it worked that well - I had a poor PCT the 1st time, lost much of the muscle I gained. But I did not realize that PCT (by AX) and Rebound XT were close to the same thing. As I look back, I left a 1 week gap between ending SD 40mg/day and starting PCT, with RETAIN & Liver Care - and had not used liver care during the cycle. The cycle was way too long as well - 12 wks. This time I am going 6 weeks, and no gap between starting. So I guess I will give AXs PCT a try again. And I will start a natural test product at the same time (LH BOOST), and use RETAIN and a liver care product. I also did PCT for 4 weeks, this time I will do 6wks (same length as the cycle). I have gained around 16lbs and am lifting more then ever in the 4 yrs I have been working out.
 
THETEST said:
I did not think it worked that well - I had a poor PCT the 1st time, lost much of the muscle I gained. But I did not realize that PCT (by AX) and Rebound XT were close to the same thing. As I look back, I left a 1 week gap between ending SD 40mg/day and starting PCT, with RETAIN & Liver Care - and had not used liver care during the cycle. The cycle was way too long as well - 12 wks. This time I am going 6 weeks, and no gap between starting. So I guess I will give AXs PCT a try again. And I will start a natural test product at the same time (LH BOOST), and use RETAIN and a liver care product. I also did PCT for 4 weeks, this time I will do 6wks (same length as the cycle). I have gained around 16lbs and am lifting more then ever in the 4 yrs I have been working out.
Click to expand...

How long is it since you ended your last cycle?

Been said twice already but great post B5150
 
1st week of October I ended my 1st cycle - the 4 weeks PCT Blood test on 10/13 was bad - Test was 29, AST 69, ALT 133.
Blood test on 12/15 was ok - Test was 284, AST 41, ALT 51.
Started new cycle on 12/16 with PP for 30mg for 2 weeks started getting sides, now on SD for 20mg, going well - up 16lbs in 5 wks while loosing fat. This time I am taking 2 kinds of liver care all the way through, and 1/2 the SD I was taking. So far this has been a good cycle, since I backed off the PP before the sides got bad. I have back pumps and some scalp iching. But strong as hell (relatively). From 195 lbs 15.5% bf, to 206.5 12.8% BF. 5'11" - in my 40s, 4 yrs of weights - natural till the 1st cycle. Want to compete in 6 months at 5% bf.
 
For a short sd cycle (3 weeks) a pct of nolva, fenugreek, and dhea will suffice.

Dr.D used ONLY fenugreek and dhea for pct following sd. Trust me those three and you'll be fine.

Nice post B5150.
 
thetest

Are you gonna take a long break after finishing this cycle?

Nice transformation btw, and good luck with the competing, plenty of bro's round here could help you with that.
 
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