Touey
Well-known member
rep. for company no rep. for company does make no difference some credit to where credit is due bro does let no anyone change or control from worry on what thinking some
OBAMACARE...JUST A SMOKESCREEN
- Thread starter thebigt
- Start date
rep. for company no rep. for company does make no difference some credit to where credit is due bro does let no anyone change or control from worry on what thinking some
ax1
Legend
Unwanted???????
I was in China for several weeks and I zipped crossed cities using the new high speed rail. Thing goes 200mph, its sick fast and smooth. Much much better than the hassles of taking a plane.
I wish we had high speed rails going up here in NY right now!
On the other hand we dont need taxes to fund it.
thebigt
Legend
but in reality...the wealthy control the cost of living.
what happened to trickle down economics? supposedly when business thrives it is good for everyone...well business has not lived up to their side of this. what is up with record profits and the dow going thru the roof, but at the same time we get massive layoffs and plant closings...plus when jobs come available due to attrition they aren't being filled, at least not by full time workers...ah yes then you have the temp situation, when business doesn't live up to their side of trickle down and hires temps instead of full timers to get out of healthcare benefits...guess what? the burden of healthcare falls on the tax payers because the wages are so low that the temps qualify for subsidies....if business had held up their end of trickle down economics we wouldn't be in this mess...greedy bastards!!!
lousy sob's, dirty scumbags!!!
Beau
Well-known member
The one within CA is unwanted; I don't think high speed trains are a flawed idea - I think they are a great one. My borother lives in Japan for about 25 years. He raved about them.
But within CA it will cost FAR less to drive (takes 6 hours) and FAR less to fly (1 hour), than it would to take the train. The proposed train is prohibited in almost all areas from being high speed.
Trains within CA are so sparesly populated, when they drive by - they look completely empty.
In summary, for this use, at this cost, and with these limitations - it is a joke.
Beau
Well-known member
The DOW is going through the roof not because we are doing well, it is because the QE program is keeping bonds so low that no investor can get a decent return on a bond, so invstors pay for over-inflated stocks.
Watch what will happen to both stock prices and bond funds when QE is pulled back. The new bonds will pay so much higher that existing bond funds will have to be heavily discounted; meaning existing bond holders take it in the rear end. Stock prices will correct (a nice word for drop like a stone). Lose/lose. Thanks QE.
It isn't going to be pretty.
Watch what will happen to both stock prices and bond funds when QE is pulled back. The new bonds will pay so much higher that existing bond funds will have to be heavily discounted; meaning existing bond holders take it in the rear end. Stock prices will correct (a nice word for drop like a stone). Lose/lose. Thanks QE.
It isn't going to be pretty.
ax1
Legend
When the wealthy control the goverment (by financing our politicians, and lobbying them) we are certain to have big problems and this needs to be addressed (which I have no near future hope for, keep voting for Republicrats!!)
Our middle class businesses are getting sucked up by the biggest of them all. We are losing competition in hiring our workers as well, its easy to hire the best workers at a lower cost when nobody else is hiring them.
Thats what you get when you have a fascist goverment run by Republicrats.
I understand this trickle down economics thing doesnt necessarily work. Personally, Im against hourly payed work to begin with. People should get awarded for work, this could create a job environment where people can have incentive to earn more money and help a business more and be awarded for it. I dunno. We will never, ever have a perfect system.
ax1
Legend
I can imagine they would be empty considering how slow they are, and if the cost is high whats the point.
In China we went from an overnight 12 hour train from Beijing to Shanghai and its reduced to 4.5 morning hours today.
They do have better costs in terms of labor of course which is another reason why not only is this country getting nothing done anymore, but our entire infrastructure is collapsing thus turning to a 3rd world real soon.
thebigt
Legend
i think the 1st sentence sums it up....
when the wealthy capitalist's control the government it is no longer a government of the people, by the people and for the people....btw-if we really lived in a country that is of the people, by the people, for the people....the minimum wage would have been $50 years ago...
remember their are far more poor people than wealthy people...shows you what a farce the elections in this country are...besides what difference does your vote matter when the choices are so piss poor...the wealthy determine the candidates, how can they lose?
ax1
Legend
This is an issue with having poor people being dependent on goverment....goverment prefers to keep people poor and keep people dependent and return they are stuck and/or dependent on supporting them. Then you get an arsenal of people to recruit into the military so they can over-run more countries to take their oil and resources for more profit$$$. Poor people are good for fascist Barry Soetoro and friends businesses.
The choices are all there before the elections. The problem is with the control of mainstream media any non-establishment candidate is left out and doesnt even partake in the debates. If they let him in just a little, they are labeled extremists and only put on TV to satisfy the illusion that they actually are noted at having a chance at anything. Money and media buys elections. Elections come up and the winner is picked before the votes are even counted.
ax1
Legend
huh??? lol
Touey
Well-known member
I think though they realizing maybe these conception only to well
Beau
Well-known member
I don't think they even think about it or care; they just want whatever benefit they can get.
And I know several that are abusing this; taking advantage of things like free school breakfast and lunch intended for less advantaged people - but after a while everyone seems to want to take a piece of the pie, even those that dopn't qualify. And most programs have little, if any, oversight.
In the CA school system, they are prohibited from trying to verify whether people qualify for the benefits they apply for, and everyone knows it. So, as a result, the system pays for those who it was never intended for. No checks, no balance, its a free for all.
And, yes - I know this because of family members who are involved in administering these programs.
And I know several that are abusing this; taking advantage of things like free school breakfast and lunch intended for less advantaged people - but after a while everyone seems to want to take a piece of the pie, even those that dopn't qualify. And most programs have little, if any, oversight.
In the CA school system, they are prohibited from trying to verify whether people qualify for the benefits they apply for, and everyone knows it. So, as a result, the system pays for those who it was never intended for. No checks, no balance, its a free for all.
And, yes - I know this because of family members who are involved in administering these programs.
ax1
Legend
Years ago when I worked at a convenience store there was a couple with kids that would come in time to time. They would buy about $25 worth of ice cream and potato chips with food stamps, and then separate with cash they would get get $50+ in beer and cigarettes.
thebigt
Legend
come to think of it the last job i had that paid minimum wage/poverty level wages was when i enlisted in the military...now we have military families on food stamps and government assisted housing because of low wages, sound familiar...
don't forget to honor those vets, lol.....those idiots wearing the flag on lapel and saying how much they support the troops are the same evil bastards who set the pay scale for the military....happy veterans day!!!!
don't forget to honor those vets, lol.....those idiots wearing the flag on lapel and saying how much they support the troops are the same evil bastards who set the pay scale for the military....happy veterans day!!!!
Touey
Well-known member
So so tired exhausting to different languages everyone all the time lol touey what touey he say what why do not he stay off to the Italy forum lol...I understand most like all honesty maybe same thing would I say.
Reminding me of German exchange student never could catching on to some game of our everyone all the time making fun to the point poor all but crying eyes out.
Really though Beau is it not so much on how much poor people can getting they after all the underdog downtrodden down out it is them trying to get around them in the slickness of way for dependent on govt. and food stamps the real ones causing disservice to many through dependence
thebigt
Legend
so, what you are saying is some poor cheat the welfare system...lol, cheating is the american way...tell me the rich and middle class don't cheat on taxes, maybe not all the rich and middle class cheat on taxes...but not all of the poor cheat either!!!
according to what you are saying what we need to do is have the irs audit every single rich and middleclass tax payer to ensure there is no cheating, might as well do away with tax loopholes also which are nothing more than legal cheating for those who can afford a tax attorney...which the poor cannot.
thebigt
Legend
charity...a wealthy man donates 10 million for a hospital wing, not only does he get the money wrote off on taxes, he get his name on the building and under the table free medical care for him and his family...isn't this cheating? actually i think it is called a 'kickback', it is so common they even have a word for it, funny isn't it...ha hah...you would think the irs should know about this...guess what they do, it's justified by saying that is how things get done....plain and simply it is cheating.
foundations...how about a guy who forms a non for profit foundation to get out of taxes, then pays himself a salary out of foundation money for appearances and expenses, plus a really hefty salary for 'running' that foundation, out of that same tax free money, quite the scam, lol.....plain and simply it is cheating.
the list goes on and on and on and on the ways the rich and middle class cheat the system...but then they bitch because some poor guy gets $80 a month for food stamps...aaah the hypocracy!!!
the rich and middle class better get that log out of their eye before they worry about the splinter in the poor mans eye....because plain and simply the rich and middle class are doing a whole lot of cheating the system.
foundations...how about a guy who forms a non for profit foundation to get out of taxes, then pays himself a salary out of foundation money for appearances and expenses, plus a really hefty salary for 'running' that foundation, out of that same tax free money, quite the scam, lol.....plain and simply it is cheating.
the list goes on and on and on and on the ways the rich and middle class cheat the system...but then they bitch because some poor guy gets $80 a month for food stamps...aaah the hypocracy!!!
the rich and middle class better get that log out of their eye before they worry about the splinter in the poor mans eye....because plain and simply the rich and middle class are doing a whole lot of cheating the system.
Beau
Well-known member
BigT - you appear to have a bit of a habit of summarizing things that others have said ("so what you are saying") but your summaries are not correct.
What I was saying, and you are free to ask, is that (a) some people cheat the system [true], and (b) the ones I have known who cheated the system are those who did not qualify for the benefit the were receiving [true, in my experience], but that means that they have made too much money to qualify for the benefit they were receiving. Stated differently, the benefit was intended to be given to the disadvantaged (using the term "poor"), but there were some well off people (meaning those people were NOT poor) who scammed the system to their benefit.
Again, as to the summary thing; "according to what you are saying" - No, that is according to what you incorrectly summarized, NOT what I said.
Tax "loopholes" that provide incentive to offer assistance to those less fortunate are a good thing. Those that support the benefit of society, again - a good thing. Those that are self serving and afford the wealthy advantages the common person will never see, I object to those.
I won't attempt to go over issue by issue; there is no need to. I believe people are and should be responsible for where they find themselves in life. I think the elderly get crapped on. I think veterans get crapped on. I think integrity is something we can no longer take for granted. I think people do whatever the hell they want to and think it is OK, so long as they aren't caught. And if they are caught, well either lie or blame someone else.
So, to avoid doubt, THOSE are the things I am saying. Summarizing them out of context or with particular slant does not change MY meaning.
And you will notice, nowhere in this long thread have I attempted to state other than my opinion. I have never attempted to speak for you, project your thoughts or beliefs or summarize anything you have said.
See how that works?
thebigt
Legend
i just got tired of you mentioning so often how the poor cheat the system, nowhere did i see you mention that cheating isn't only done by the poor....deny that you have done your best to point out how much cheating is done by the poor, but nowhere have you mentioned how much cheating goes on by the people who critize the poor for cheating....hell, cheating is the american way...at one time or another we all have taken advantage of the system...
in summary, cheating isn't just a poor thing.
Beau
Well-known member
Nowhere did I mention or imply that cheating was limited to the poor.
Pleae re-read all of my posts, you will find that statement or implication does not exist.
If one infers that, the responsibility remains with the one malking the inference.
Again, that statement or implications is found nowhere.
I have a disgust for people that cheat; regardless of their socio-economic status.
The end.
thebigt
Legend
the implication is VERY clear...go back and re-read your posts....as far as your statements, your exclusion of the rich and cheating speaks volumes, my friend!!!
your disdain for the poor has been abundantly clear and obvious, if you don't see this then i would be wasting my time trying to explain this to you....
i may not be rich...but i aint stupid!!!!
Beau
Well-known member
My final response and last participation in this thread:
The implication does not exist. You have inferred that. That is your choice. Funny - people learn best when they ask, not conclude for others.
I do not have disdain for the poor. You have inferred that as abundantly clear and obvious to you. Yes, we agree, you are wasting your time. I do not agree.
It makes no difference to me if you are or are not rich. It makes no difference to me if you are smart or not smart. What makes a difference to me is that since we have opposing ideologies and differing views on the importance of personal responsibility, that you summarize my position using your own criteria emotionally driven perspective and conclude that I have disdain for people; the people that I, in fact, choose to serve.
As to cheating, there is an enormous difference between those looking to maximize a benefit that is legally and morally afforded them, and those looking to illegally and immorally milk the system.
As to your assessment that since I failed to specifically call out the rich by name (my "exclusion of the rich") as these who have been involved in cheating, with all due respect, that is not a valid argument. You will note that I also failed to specifically call out Anglos, Hispanics, Porto Ricans, small breasted women, men with gynomastia, hydrant seeking canines, and many other groups. That does not, and cannot reasonably be concluded to mean, that I somehow believe or claim that Anglos, Hispanics, Porto Ricans, small breasted women, men with gynomastia, hydrant seeking canines, and many other groups are excluded from cheating. That is binary thinking.
I have intentionally avoided trying to summarize your position, or your ideology. I understand you are free to embrace whatever positions you hold dear, and you should. For me to endeavor to restate them in a way that makes that position look foolish, would only reflect poorly on me. I have not attempted to change your position; that is not my job.
Right now we find ourselves in the day when we allegedly have to “be tolerant” of the other’s position. I have no objection to that whatsoever; that is until we get to the point that this alleged tolerance insists that I have to accept another’s position as equally valid (to me) as my own position. That is not now, nor has it ever been, what tolerance means.
This thread has turned into something that no longer suits what I believe was the original intention, and that is a shame. I am respectfully dropping out; but not because I supposedly hate the poor.
Touey
Well-known member
thread turn twist morph juxtapose transmute no need for anyone get bent out of shape.
Beau am sure do not think t trying attack you on personal these points they are a only aspect of things we observing our personal lives our background how "we" perceiving thing.
everyone has different life experience the point not to take to heart personal but hashing out to may be more clearly understand others and insight into your own views may you sharpen as iron for attaining wisdom
thebigt
Legend
sorry to see you go...i will truely miss your 'implications'.
it really a shame you can't see you can't see the validity of any of the points i have made...also a shame that you aren't going to try to make me look foolish. i really, truely would have enjoyed that...
the rich control the government and the wealth of this country, they have no one but themselves to blame for the mess we are in...it is a mess of their own making!!!
thebigt
Legend
met today with union rep and got signed up for unemployment and obamacare also put in apps for 3 jobs....unemployment will be $400, not nearly enough to live on, but better than nothing...even though i am opposed to obamacare, it will be a very good thing for my wife and i, beats the hell out of nothing!!!
union rep told me that cobra would be $600 a week, i think i will pass......
union rep told me that cobra would be $600 a week, i think i will pass......
ax1
Legend
We the people are as much to blame as the rich and the goverment. If we the people made sure we only voted for officials who obey the Constitution and not obey the wealthy we wouldnt be in as much mess as we are in now.
I cant believe your Union Rep embarrasses himself over and over again and offering unemployed workers cobra, what a puppet.
ax1
Legend
Yeah I know...didnt mean to call him a puppet, you know what I mean.
I was offered cobra in the past, I found it very offensive just that I was offered it.
thebigt
Legend
yeah, he has guidelines he has to follow, but he is a decent guy, imo.
as to voting, you know as well as i do that no one who truely represents the people would ever make it on the ballot...hell, look what rockefeller and carnegie did to teddy roosevelt...thank GOD their plan backfired on them!!!
ax1
Legend
Thats why I dont vote anymore especially in major elections (local I feel a bit different). I may support in primaries if anyone of interest, but unless they get more mainstream coverage and especially are allowed to get on the debates this rigged system is not reaping the benefits of my vote.
Teddy R. is a very interesting man.
ax1
Legend
And if I hear one more time, "oh you should vote and have your voice heard," im going to slap myself lol.
I dont need to vote to have my voice heard....they are people still trying to have the votes counted from the last election, does that mean people dont know they cant have their voice heard because their vote may not have been counted?
thebigt
Legend
that is why i was confused by your post, i thought that we agreed that anyone who is truely for the interest of the people will never make it to the ballot.
#1..who will fund him, the wealthy control the money.
#2.. media, the wealthy control/own the media. no way in hell anyone can get elected without media coverage.
ax1
Legend
I dont want to say never...I try to be more optimistic. I can say possibly never in my lifetime, but I would like to at least hope I can contribute to the future (at least my ideas anyways.)
To #1 and 2#..Yes, the wealthy have the big bucks....but with all the money they have they cant brainwash me anymore to vote for unethical people....and If I can wake up I know many other people can wake up. We just have to win the elections in an alternative fashion (all underway, via internet and alternative news) to counter the corporations from having their ways.
Is it hard and a long shot? Yes...but I dont mind losing over and over again to stick to principles even if I have no chance at winning. I always think anything is possible, and if we all drop our gloves because things are to overwhelming that is when we in fact lose.
ax1
Legend
Its too late for me, lol
The globalists hate the internet the way it is, its backfiring on them.
There is a secret globalists NWO treaty that was recently leaked by wikileaks to deal with this issue by a implementing a transnational “enforcement regime.”
Invalid Link Removed
thebigt
Legend
i get the gist of it, a whole lot of legal gobbledegook kinda like patent rights on information it looks like to me....
but what the hell is 'the new digital economy' ???
what is scary is all these treaties we seem to be signing, our politicians have totally sold us out...even my dumbass can figure that out!!!
ax1
Legend
This treaty is so major it can impact 40% of worldwide GDP, and its only a pre-runner to the US-EU Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership which in combination will control 60% worldwide GDP minus China.
Obama admin is secretively pushing this....members of congress are only able to view (well this is all leaked out now, lol) a few select portions and the ones will most access are the big lobbyists from Monsanto, Halliburton, Wallmart and others.
If passed will be a huge blow to individual rights and freedom of expression.
thebigt
Legend
lol...dick cheney was a formerchairman of the board and ceo of haliburton which made a fortune off the gulf war....
cheney was sec of defense during desert storm in 91 and then went to haliburton from 95-2000...
cheney then became vice president in 2001 and was a driving force behind the invasion of iraq after 9/1/1
really makes one wonder......
don't even get me started on walmart, lol......
as to monsanto....can you say genetically modified foods? commonly refered to as gmo.
ax1
Legend
Yeah...good old Dick. The guy who took over NORAD the morning of 9/11 and had them running mock 9/11 exercises before 9/11 ever happened and later gave the stand down orders as the plane aka missile was heading for the Pentagon. War is great for business, and war is great for stripping all our rights away.
thebigt
Legend
don't forget donald rumsfeld [then sec defense] who the day before 9/11 said in an interview that 2.5 TRILLION dollars were unaccounted for from pentagon budget. the next day[9/11]the plane[missile] that struck the penagon, hit the exact place where records of the missing money was stored....coincidence??? 2.5 TRILLION dollars is a lot of motivation for a whole lot of sketchy shenanigons.
yes i said trillions!!!!
ax1
Legend
Nah...not that much. Its was really only a meastly 2.3 trillion. Anyways thats potato chips compared to what the illegal Federal Reserve takes.
Anyways, I ran into something interesting and off topic, since we were talking about veterans the other day I feel right to post this here.
A US soldier now costs 2.1 million tax dollars dollars to keep in Afghan annually, up from 1.3 million. How much of that goes to their salaries and health care???????
So, we are spending $50 million dollars for every 1 Taliban we kill....for 20 Taliban it costs us 1 Billion dollars.
And this country is broke we still continue this?
Yeah...thanks Obama for ending the Afghan war.....declaring it over in 2024. And you know by the time that year comes a couple presidents later..."oh we need a 2 year extension."
thebigt
Legend
2.1 million dollars a year for each soldier in afghanistan yearly....and many active duty soldiers with families are on food stamps and government assisted housing.
i guess they are considered 'nothing more than someone with a heartbeat that doesn't deserve more than minimum wage'....just think if they would have stayed home and went to college, they too could be living the good life!!!!! it must be because they are lazy and unmotivated....
i still can't get over the fact that the guy[dick cheney] who pushed the hardest for invading iraq and afghanistan was the head of a corporation who stood to profit the most.
so, i wonder how much of that 50 million per taliban kill haliburton gets?