OBAMACARE...JUST A SMOKESCREEN

ax1 said:
This country is totally broke...I dont see why anyone would want to trust goverment to help take care of them. If the financial system collapses nothing will be payed for.

I do agree with you that big business isnt exactly out to take care of you either.

The bigger issue is the merger of big business and goverment that we have seen develop in recent decades. To say you trust goverment over big business is a false statement, since goverment is controlled by big business.

Big business is goverment, which is the big issue imo.



It may not effect rates Ill have to look into that, but its effect on jobs has been disastrous as now new full time employment is being overwhelmed with hour cuts and part time only workers to avoid this goverment tax (mandate is a tax.)

Also, if you read that article the US Chamber of Commerce state 71% business will have a harder time to grow.

That article doesnt state the mandate has an effect on rates, so I dont know where this "media driven sensation" came from.



Of course they dont....thats why I support the idea of eliminating income tax and stopping people to depend on both goverment and big business (who are 2 together.)

The fact is before goverment got their dirty paws in our health care system, health care was far more affordable and accessible. Before medicare both elderly and poor can go to most hospitals and get good care at a low rate. Free medical care was the norm.
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Thats all and good but on the ground, when I see who is paying the bill and who is not...private insurance are a royal pain in the ass to deal with on "procedures" and the government is not.

I really don't care about what Forbes says or what Forbes predicts. When it comes to the ACA, all I hear is talking points and ideology from people who don't even know how basic insurance works. So I let them believe what they want while I'll continue to see what actually happens.
 
southpaw23 said:
"Dont you miss those days when you can go to the doc and if you had no money they would still treat you?" When were these days? If you walk into most hospitals in this country, by law they must provide you with basic care and it isn't free (unless you provide false information). You'll be billed and if you're unable to pay, those bills end up on your credit report which is far more damaging in the long-term.
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And the state picks up the bill which in turn raises your local taxes....

I loved those days when doctors treated you for free....and the 40yr old mortality rates and they gave you coca cola as medicine. Great times!
 
ax1 said:
Free healthcare was common for those in needs before goverment and health were forcefully intertwined...pre-medicare and medicaid days. Now those in need both must buy insurance or be heavily penalized...and health care still isnt free (high co-pays.)
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Horse and carriages were also once common as well, not sure I wanna take one of those to work.
 
Beau said:
Think Department of Motor Vehicles.

Apply to health care.

Enjoy.
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Like I said, I can't wait until your sign up for your Medicare Advantage plan and balk at them covering 99% of your costs.


And down here our DMV is 100% online...and easy.
 
Admin said:
Thats all and good but on the ground, when I see who is paying the bill and who is not...private insurance are a royal pain in the ass to deal with on "procedures" and the government is not.

I really don't care about what Forbes says or what Forbes predicts. When it comes to the ACA, all I hear is talking points and ideology from people who don't even know how basic insurance works. So I let them believe what they want while I'll continue to see what actually happens.
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Actually goverment is a total pain in the butt. Look how many Veterans have had failing issues with goverment health care. Government historically has failed.
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ax1 said:
Actually goverment is a total pain in the butt. Look how many Veterans have had failing issues with goverment health care. Government historically has failed.
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VA is not Medicare and VA is not an insurance plan.
 
southpaw23 said:
Horse and carriages were also once common as well, not sure I wanna take one of those to work.
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Im only talking some 40-50 years ago southpaw, not the days of the terra cotta warriors, lol.
 
ax1 said:
Im only talking some 40-50 years ago southpaw, not the days of the terra cotta warriors, lol.
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Ah yes, the glorious 50's. LMAO
 
Admin said:
Like I said, I can't wait until your sign up for your Medicare Advantage plan and balk at them covering 99% of your costs.


And down here our DMV is 100% online...and easy.
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In CA the DMV is a nightmare; really and truly. You CANNOT rely on them to provide proper and adequate direction.

And, they do not give a crap.
 
Beau said:
In CA the DMV is a nightmare; really and truly. You CANNOT rely on them to provide proper and adequate direction.

And, they do not give a crap.
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Not here. 100% online and easy. Maybe that says more about your local government than the feds. Just a thought....since it is STATE run.
 
Look at the bright side, at least we have a highly efficient and effective web portal.

So, that is a confidence builder.
 
Admin said:
Not here. 100% online and easy. Maybe that says more about your local government than the feds. Just a thought....since it is STATE run.
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California politics is beyond bad.

The epitome' of treat the symptom, ignore the problem (or reward it).

CA will eventually go BK
 
Beau said:
Look t the bright side, at least we have a highly efficient and effective web portal.

So, that is a confidence builder.
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Actually, it is..compared to how Medicare was introduced. But historical facts are boring compared to overwhelming negative opinion of something you've never been involved with and really don't understand. And thats not an insult..most people have no clue about insurance.
 
Beau said:
California politics is beyond bad.

The epitome' of treat the symptom, ignore the problem (or reward it).

CA will eventually go BK
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So your smaller state government is bad.....I thought libertarians were in love with states rights.
 
Admin said:
No, its not even remotely close to Medicare.
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We are thinking differently...Im just trying to show how goverment isnt exactly proven to have a good track record of taking care of people.

My grandmother had been smacked with thousands in co-pays getting eye surgery not long ago and she has medicare. Not a good goverment program.
 
ax1 said:
We are thinking differently...Im just trying to show how goverment isnt exactly proven to have a good track record of taking care of people.

My grandmother had been smacked with thousands in co-pays getting eye surgery not long ago and she has medicare. Not a good goverment program.
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Your entire train of thought/ideology is based on being anti-government, so obviously you're not in favor of ACA. However, you cite some poorly constructed information to substantiate your opinions, as admin has pointed out to you, including the differences between medicare vs military coverage.
 
ax1 said:
We are thinking differently...Im just trying to show how goverment isnt exactly proven to have a good track record of taking care of people.

My grandmother had been smacked with thousands in co-pays getting eye surgery not long ago and she has medicare. Not a good goverment program.
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Then you should tell her to sign up for an Advantage Plan which is a zero premium and she wouldn't have to. There isn't an advantage plan on earth that has co-pays of thousands of dollars.
 
southpaw23 said:
Your who train of though/ideology is ant-government, so obviously you're not in favor of ACA. However, you cite some poor facts to substantiate your opinions as admin has pointed out to you, the differences between medicare vs military coverage.
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Well we KNOW that. I mean I could show him hundreds of people in a nursing home benefitting from Medicare that they PAID into but he won't think its valid or efficient. So its pointless to argue with someone like that....they eventually will go on Medicare themselves and actually see for themselves. You can lead a horse to water....
 
ax1 said:
So does the idea of depending on goverment to give you security.
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I'd love to have Medicare and an Advantage plan. I would pay $110/month for 99% of my medical costs, so yes.....
 
southpaw23 said:
Your who train of though/ideology is ant-government, so obviously you're not in favor of ACA. However, you cite some poor facts to substantiate your opinions as admin has pointed out to you, the differences between medicare vs military coverage.
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They are two different programs but its just an example on goverment failure.

Medicare is a program that goverment uses force...people dont have a choice but to have their fruits of their labor taken away from them. Obamacare only adds to this force by forcing the mandate on insurance. The goverment is overstepping their boundaries and violating ones individual freedom's by forcing them into programs they dont want to partake in. This ideology is not a "cloud."
 
Admin said:
So your smaller state government is bad.....I thought libertarians were in love with states rights.
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Oh, I am anything other than a libertarian.

Government should be run like a business. Bottom line numbers, accountability and compensation tied to delivery.

Instead, we have under-performing goof offs who could not cut it in private business (partially because that might interfere with junket trips and infringe upon and golf time).

California is concerned with critical issues such as allowing elementary through high school aged boys (who may suffer from sexual confusion as to "what they really are"), to freely use women's bathroom (and girls to do the same), rather focusing on real issues such as the State's financial solvency. I can think of nothing better for the development of the gender confused that to allow some 17 year old boy to bust a moon fish sitting in the stall next to a 16 year old female honors student.

How edifying for everyone!!

"Hey Karen, you got the sports page - I'm having a fierce time after last night's Thai food".

Utter BS
 
ax1 said:
They are two different programs but its just an example on goverment failure.

Medicare is a program that goverment uses force...people dont have a choice but to have their fruits of their labor taken away from them. Obamacare only adds to this force by forcing the mandate on insurance. The goverment is overstepping their boundaries and violating ones individual freedom's by forcing them into programs they dont want to partake in. This ideology is not a "cloud."
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Should I use examples of private business failing as an example of all business?
 
Admin said:
I'd love to have Medicare and an Advantage plan. I would pay $110/month for 99% of my medical costs, so yes.....
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When I have some time Im going to see if there is anything new I can change for my grandmother (and other family) under the new laws that take place. If the system is there why not use it if your stuck needing too.
 
Admin said:
Should I use examples of private business failing as an example of all business?
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The only business Im interested in here with this topic is private doctors, hospitals and the ones making the medicine.

They can all be helped by eliminating the income tax, reducing regulation and perhaps giving tax credits on real estate to name a few examples. Of course some will go out of business like any other business, but thats up to the doctor/hospital to figure all that out.
 
ax1 said:
They are two different programs but its just an example on goverment failure.

Medicare is a program that goverment uses force...people dont have a choice but to have their fruits of their labor taken away from them. Obamacare only adds to this force by forcing the mandate on insurance. The goverment is overstepping their boundaries and violating ones individual freedom's by forcing them into programs they dont want to partake in. This ideology is not a "cloud."
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And your description of Medicate is wrong. People get back more than what they out in by a large amount. Its why its so good form a beneficiaries standpoint.

The government isn't overstepping their bounds. The Supreme Court said so. It you want to argue against that, be my guest and file a lawsuit!
 
Is anyone else concerned that the medical device tax with simply drive move medical device makers out of the US?
 
ax1 said:
When I have some time Im going to see if there is anything new I can change for my grandmother (and other family) under the new laws that take place. If the system is there why not use it if your stuck needing too.
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The law has no bearing on your grandmother. It has no effect on whats available to her. In fact, she can't even get Obamacare because she is eligible for Medicare..why? Because ots 10x better than any plan out there...she pays $110/month for her Part B that comes out of her SS check and she can get a Medicare Advantage plan through a private carrier for nothing that covers co-pays and deductibles that Part A and Part B don't cover.
 
If you're currently uninsured what other viable alternatives do you have to something like ACA?

If you can't afford health insurance, then you surely can't afford a hospital visit which would equate to thousands of dollars. It's not free. Sure you don't have to pay, but what happens next is even more damaging. Those bills/costs get shifted over to your credit report. Good luck qualifying for a mortgage, auto-financing, etc.
 
Beau said:
Is anyone else concerned that the medical device tax with simply drive move medical device makers out of the US?
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They already are.
 
Admin said:
And your description of Medicate is wrong. People get back more than what they out in by a large amount. Its why its so good form a beneficiaries standpoint.

The government isn't overstepping their bounds. The Supreme Court said so. It you want to argue against that, be my guest and file a lawsuit!
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Let people decide if its good for them. If it was really good then you dont have to force it.

I dont respect many of the Supreme Courts decisions and most of them have their own political ideologies rather than respecting the Bill of Rights and individual liberty.
 
There are several law suits in place now. Some of those are based on the allegation that faith-based organizations should not be obligated to violate their strongly held religious beliefs.

As to the extent to which the Federal Government is overstepping their boundaries (and becoming a nanny), please look at the charter of the Federal Government within the overall governmental structure.

It is the epitome of scope creep.
 
southpaw23 said:
If you're currently uninsured what other viable alternatives do you have to something like ACA?

If you can't afford health insurance, then you surely can't afford a hospital visit which would equate to thousands of dollars. It's not free. Sure you don't have to pay, but what happens next is even more damaging. Those bills/costs get shifted over to your credit report. Good luck qualifying for a mortgage, auto-financing, etc.
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Your credit report is ones individual personal responsibility. If you have a $30,000 hospital bill then its up to the individual to pay it off, like a college loan.

Anyways, by law everybody must have health insurance, so it doesnt matter if you cant afford it, you must get it or the IRS will hunt you down.
 
Beau said:
There are several law suits in place now. Some of those are based on the allegation that faith-based organizations should not be obligated to violate their strongly held religious beliefs.

As to the extent to which the Federal Government is overstepping their boundaries (and becoming a nanny), please look at the charter of the Federal Government within the overall governmental structure.

It is the epitome of scope creep.
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Ah yes...I'm sure the Supreme Court ignored all of that.
 
ax1 said:
Your credit report is ones individual personal responsibility. If you have a $30,000 hospital bill then its up to the individual to pay it off, like a college loan.

Anyways, by law everybody must have health insurance, so it doesnt matter if you cant afford it, you must get it or the IRS will hunt you down.
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$30,000? LOL....try $500k. 10 days in the hospital. I don't think you quite grasp the scope of what hospitals charge for stays in an IC unit.
 
Beau said:
We'll see. There are several injunctions in place now.
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Good luck but it doesn't seem to have worked. The biggest problem Republicans have is if it actually worked. Then they are toast.

Later guys.
 
Admin said:
$30,000? LOL....try $500k. 10 days in the hospital. I don't think you quite grasp the scope of what hospitals charge for stays in an IC unit.
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Medical costs are some of the issues Ive been bringing up. These issues have been growing over the decades and will only get worse.

If its a 500k bill, it doesnt matter. Its not right that other people have to pay for others faults. Its a good idea to try to get optional private insurance. Anyways, medical costs are ridiculous for numerous reasons that shouldnt which is what I want to deal with.
 
ax1 said:
Medical costs are some of the issues Ive been bringing up. These issues have been growing over the decades and will only get worse.

If its a 500k bill, it doesnt matter. Its not right that other people have to pay for others faults. Its a good idea to try to get optional private insurance.
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C'mon now; that would mean taking personal responsibility. Who would want to have personal responsibility? The IRS doesn't seem to have any, nor does President Soetoro (Benghazi, Fast and Furious, spying on the French and German ...).
 
Beau said:
C'mon now; that would mean taking personal responsibility. Who would want to have personal responsibility? The IRS doesn't seem to have any, nor does President Soetoro (Benghazi, Fast and Furious, spying on the French and German ...).
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Yea...Im not trying to sound cold, but when I see most people eating like crap, smoking, drinking and not working out why should I allow that to effect my taxes so I can take care of them?

Then there are real medical issues and accidents which I am in fact deeply concerned about, but there is no reason medical costs are as high as they are and goverment/corporate infiltration is the reason things have gotten so bad in terms the past 40-50 years.

Most people look to add a band aid to a broken bone when it comes to figuring out why our medical system is so screwed up and then costs just keep going up as the money is stolen from us and taken by our corporatist goverment.
 
ax1 said:
Your credit report is ones individual personal responsibility. If you have a $30,000 hospital bill then its up to the individual to pay it off, like a college loan.

Anyways, by law everybody must have health insurance, so it doesnt matter if you cant afford it, you must get it or the IRS will hunt you down.
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Credit reporting is only one aspect of the debate. If you're unable to pay, those costs are absorbed through your state taxes. Either way...you pay.
 
southpaw23 said:
Credit reporting is only one aspect of the debate. If you're unable to pay, those costs are absorbed through your state taxes. Either way...you pay.
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I wonder if those costs will be absorbed by the federal goverment from here on once we finalize Obamacare? The fact is there will still be millions of people without health insurance even with the mandate.
 
ax1 said:
I wonder if those costs will be absorbed by the federal goverment from here on once we finalize Obamacare? The fact is there will still be millions of people without health insurance even with the mandate.
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The fact is, it hasn't been implemented yet and you don't know what's going to happen.
 
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