Novice stack for gains and losses

[DGator86]

Hi all,

I'm looking for advice for running my first cycle of "nattys". I'm a little different from the average muscle gainers here as I do crossfit as my workout. I'm going 5-6 times a week and while on cycle will be going twice a day at least 3 of those days. My goal is to lose body fat (currently 14.7%, on macros), and gain a good bit of functional muscle. My lifts (2nd workout of the day) will be heavy in squats, bench, and deadlift.

From what I've seen it looks like the following would be a good cycle.

"Nattys" (Weeks 1-8)
- OL Sup3r-1 Elite
- OL Sup3r Epi Elite

Support (Weeks 1-8)
- Fish Oil
- Follidrone 2.0

PCT (Weeks 9-12)
- Kingsblood
-Alphamax XT

So, what do you think? Is this the wrong approach? Should I tweak?

Thanks everyone!

 

[elo76]

I'm new at this but can offer some info.

#1 Not sure what you mean by "Nattys". Those aren't natty compounds, but 1/4 or 1/epi are good first choices.

#2 Save the Follidrone for after. Get some Ar1macare Pro or Spartan Shield for support.

#3 Get a SERM for PCT. Clomid is a popular choice. Then either run Kingsblood or Alphamax XT.

 

[DGator86]

Thanks, I might have reached when I said "nattys".

 

[NewAgeMayan]

How many elite bottles you getting for 8 weeks?

 

[DGator86]

NewAge, how many should I get? This is my first cycle so I don't want to over do it.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

NewAge, how many should I get? This is my first cycle so I don't want to over do it.

Depends how high you want to dose.

Put it this way, the study on 1dhea dosed 330mg over 4 weeks, which should be an ample dose. At minimum Id aim for 330mg/d for your last four weeks, and 220 for the first four. Otherwise, just get two elite which will be enough for 330 over the whole 8wks.

Epiandro, youre prolly gonna want at least 500mg/d. Youll likely want to try higher, up to 1000mg.

Comes down to how much you anticipate wanting to experiment, and spend.

 

[AntM1564]

Definitely get a SERM and you can use Kingsblood and AlphaMax XT with the SERM. SERMS should be the foundation for every PCT

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I'm new at this but can offer some info.

#1 Not sure what you mean by "Nattys". Those aren't natty compounds, but 1/4 or 1/epi are good first choices.

#2 Save the Follidrone for after. Get some Ar1macare Pro or Spartan Shield for support.

#3 Get a SERM for PCT. Clomid is a popular choice. Then either run Kingsblood or Alphamax XT.

Solid advice.

 

[DGator86]

If I had to choose between 1 or Epi for a beginner which one would you choose?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

1 for sure. Epiandro is a stacker really, and wont deliver a whole lot solo.

But, be warned of potential lethargy running 1 solo.

 

[Bestia956]

Hi all,

I'm looking for advice for running my first cycle of "nattys". I'm a little different from the average muscle gainers here as I do crossfit as my workout. I'm going 5-6 times a week and while on cycle will be going twice a day at least 3 of those days. My goal is to lose body fat (currently 14.7%, on macros), and gain a good bit of functional muscle. My lifts (2nd workout of the day) will be heavy in squats, bench, and deadlift.

From what I've seen it looks like the following would be a good cycle.

"Nattys" (Weeks 1-8)
- OL Sup3r-1 Elite
- OL Sup3r Epi Elite

Support (Weeks 1-8)
- Fish Oil
- Follidrone 2.0

PCT (Weeks 9-12)
- Kingsblood
-Alphamax XT

So, what do you think? Is this the wrong approach? Should I tweak?

Thanks everyone!

Whats cross fit?

 

[DGator86]

Whats cross fit?

CrossFit is a cross-modality fitness "program/routine/sport". More often than not it is around an hour long class at a gym called a "box". It employs powerlifting, olympic lifting, gymnastics, etc. Usually the format of the class is mobility>strength>HIIT workout (typically called a "WOD"). The focus of CrossFit is to gain not only strength but superior cardio/muscular endurance through constantly varied training.

 

[DGator86]

Ok, so here's the rough draft.....
Reiterating my goal - Gain strength/cut fat/gain endurance
I'm running this cycle to prepare for the Crossfit Open as well.

Cycle -
-Supplementation:
Sup3r-1 - 8 week - 330 ED
Super-Epi - 8 week - 500 ED
Arm1care - 8 week - As prescribed

-Training
Class -
Mornings - M-F, 4 Saturday team classes
Afternoons - 3 days (M-T-R), Squat(F/B)-Bench-DL-Overhead Cycle (maybe low% Klokov)

-Diet
Macros - 110F/165P/265C
Cals - 2710/day

Post -
Clomid - 50/50/25/25
AlphaMax XT - Per bottle
Follidrone 2.0 - Per bottle

Does that look better?

 

[ChocolateClen]

Arminacare you can get away with 4 caps a day instead of 8. Your stack isn't super methylated so you don't really need to use the Max as long as you don't drink on cycle

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Why half dose an on cycle support? May as well not bother with it.

 

[ChocolateClen]

Why half dose an on cycle support? May as well not bother with it.

Benifits will still come from 4 caps of it since it's not a harsh cycle. I don't think 8 caps is really nessesary but I guess the only way to tell is with bloods

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Benifits will still come from 4 caps of it since it's not a harsh cycle. I don't think 8 caps is really nessesary but I guess the only way to tell is with bloods

Hmm, dunno if you need bloods. Just look at the mg dosing of each ingredient if half dosed. Most become negligible at best.

 

[ChocolateClen]

Hmm, dunno if you need bloods. Just look at the mg dosing of each ingredient if half dosed. Most become negligible at best.

That's where I'll admit I'm not get knowlageable. I thought they were still effective half dosed.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

That's where I'll admit I'm not get knowlageable. I thought they were still effective half dosed.

If they were, then in some respects would it be correct to think that the product is "over" dosed when used as per label? Like, you look at the ingredients and think "wow thats way more than you need!"?

I know what you mean with certain ingredients, that there is an effective dosing range, and dosing on the low end of that range is still beneficial. TUDCA is a possible example. But there is still a dose that falls under the low end.

Plus, there are like 10+ other ingredients in AP other than TUDCA.

Put it this way. Id guarantee, if a company released an on-cycle product whose full dose was half that of AP, people would be criticisng the fuk outta it.

 

[ChocolateClen]

If they were, then in some respects would it be correct to think that the product is "over" dosed when used as per label?

I know what you mean with certain ingredients, that there is an effective dosing range, and dosing on the low end of that range is still beneficial. TUDCA is a possible example. But there is still a dose that falls under the low end.

Plus, there are like 10+ other ingredients in AP other than TUDCA.

Put it this way. Id guarantee, if a company released an on-cycle product whose full dose was half that of AP, people would be criticisng the fuk outta it.

Didn't think about it that way, that's a good way to put it.

 

[DGator86]

NewAgeMayan, I've done some more reading and had a question on Sup3r-4 vs Sup3r-Epi. For my goals, which would be best?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Epiandro will tend to do more for strength than 4andro. Its also a much more flexible doser, ie works if you spread your daily dose, and can possibly have acute benefits dosing an amount pre wo.

 

[elo76]

Epiandro will tend to do more for strength than 4andro. Its also a much more flexible doser, ie works if you spread your daily dose, and can possibly have acute benefits dosing an amount pre wo.

So will 4 give more size gains?

Also...Won't Epi do more for libido and agression than 4?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

So will 4 give more size gains?

Also...Won't Epi do more for libido and agression than 4?

I think, generally speaking, 1 and 4 will be more synergistic/complimentary than 1 and epiandro.

4 will potentially contribute to an anabolic environment independant of any gym work moreso than epiandro; epiandro will largely contribute due to the effects on lifting. Does that make sense?

At the end of the day, though, how beneficial each compound ends up proving to be for the individual will to a large extent depend on how efficiently their body converts the compounds, and how the converted compounds then modify the relevant biological systems.

 

[elo76]

I think, generally speaking, 1 and 4 will be more synergistic/complimentary than 1 and epiandro.

4 will potentially contribute to an anabolic environment independant of any gym work moreso than epiandro; epiandro will largely contribute due to the effects on lifting. Does that make sense?

At the end of the day, though, how beneficial each compound ends up proving to be for the individual will to a large extent depend on how efficiently their body converts the compounds, and how the converted compounds then modify the relevant biological systems.

I think I got it.

From what I read in other posts...Epi is used more for for a cut and 4 is used for a bulk.

In the OP's case I would use epi

Both are used as test bases for 1 to combat the sides though right?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Correct.

 

[DGator86]

Well folks, after a brief yet intense look at the direction my shopping cart total was heading I've decided to go a slightly different route.

Cycle - 8 weeks
1. Sparta Nutrition - Cerberus : 3/3/3/3/3/3/3/3
2. Ar1macare (On cycle support) : 8/8/8/8/8/8/8/8

Post-Cycle
1. Nolva - 20/20/10/10
2. Alphamax XT or K1ngs Blood - 8 weeks
3. Follidrone 2.0 - 8 weeks
**4. Maybe Or1gin**

This is much better on the wallet, which is nice. I know this is the 3rd stab, but some feedback would be great.

 

[Sdog77]

Do you plan on posting results as well?

 

[DGator86]

Yessir

 

[Sdog77]

Nice!

I'm in for some updates.

When are you starting?

 

[elo76]

I will be running Cerberus also with Shield as support.

Pct will be Clomid 50/50/25/25 and Alphamax XT.

We will have to compare results. I bought an extra bottle of Cerberus in case I need to up the dose and still have an 8 week run.

 

[DGator86]

So, a minor change.
Decided to stack 1 & Epi, but will be adding Sup3r-Shred to push things along and not have to compromise on performance macros.

Will be running Nolva/AlphaMax XT for sure on PCT. Might do follidrone for cortisol control.