Noob here...starting cycle idea?

Royalderson

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So I'm new to all this...just tired of being small and feeling so weak. I feel like I've hit a plateau and can't go any higher but I'm not where I want to be. I guess I'm looking for guidance.

I'll list what I'm looking for first:
1. Legal (I'm in USA). I know that real gear is the best option and it's stupid that it's illegal in the first place but I absolutely need to stay legal.
2. Strength over size. Getting huge isn't really what I'm going for - bigger yes, but I imagine that size will come with strength. I'm really not sure if there are cycles designed for one or the other or if both are a result of any cycle, but I'll mention it just in case it does factor in.

I'm 6 foot and about 145 pounds. Not very much body fat. Always been skinny and no amount of eating has made me weigh more than 160 pounds in my entire life.

With all that said, and after reading through websites and this forum, it seems like epiandro (Stano Plex?), 1-andro, and 11kt (xi-kt?) are good choices. What about DMZ?

Any help is appreciated.
 
Renew1

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So I'm new to all this...just tired of being small and feeling so weak. I feel like I've hit a plateau and can't go any higher but I'm not where I want to be. I guess I'm looking for guidance.

I'll list what I'm looking for first:
1. Legal (I'm in USA). I know that real gear is the best option and it's stupid that it's illegal in the first place but I absolutely need to stay legal.
2. Strength over size. Getting huge isn't really what I'm going for - bigger yes, but I imagine that size will come with strength. I'm really not sure if there are cycles designed for one or the other or if both are a result of any cycle, but I'll mention it just in case it does factor in.

I'm 6 foot and about 145 pounds. Not very much body fat. Always been skinny and no amount of eating has made me weigh more than 160 pounds in my entire life.

With all that said, and after reading through websites and this forum, it seems like epiandro (Stano Plex?), 1-andro, and 11kt (xi-kt?) are good choices. What about DMZ?

Any help is appreciated.
What's your age?
Training experience?
Max on major lifts?
 

Whisky

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Yep, both comments above on the money. That weight and height suggests you don’t have diet and/or training tuned in brother.

doesn’t matter what you take, if you don’t know how to eat and train to grow then you won’t grow......
 
delsolrob

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my favorite mass builder:

Whole wheat french toast with pb and bananas - eat this for breakfast and about 2 hours before the gym when I'm trying to add mass. have it with a side of scrambled eggs (leftover from making the french toast).

A comprehensive post workout recovery is also a great investment when trying to put on some quality mass.
 

Voxide

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With all that said, and after reading through websites and this forum, it seems like epiandro (Stano Plex?), 1-andro, and 11kt (xi-kt?) are good choices. What about DMZ?
Nope, nope, nope, and nope


Either commit to this completely or don't waste your time/money/health

You did not "hit a plateau" while weighing as much as a high school freshman. Please learn how to eat.
 
GQdaLEGEND

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you have not reached your plateu brother .. it just takes alot that your not putting in the work required.

dont run stuff just bc you feel weak/skinny .. i did that at earlier days and as older you get you will regret it if it went the wrong way.
 

Mathb33

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You need to learn to eat. You probably have a little appetite and as too many people what you think was a big eating day was probably not even 3000 calories. I’ll never believe a 145 lbs 6 foot guy can’t gain. This is extremely skinny just get some quality food in. You’d be surprised what 3000 calories of rice and meat looks like. It’s a lot of food. If it’s not enough add calories. Until it works. As for drugs, legally there’s nothing very good imo there’s the "banned" supps that somehow escaped the ban : dmz , msten , m1a. My choice would be dmz if it’s your first time with those.
 

Royalderson

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Maybe I can still gain naturally, but maybe I don't want to. I'm 28. The thing is I need to gain quickly for a physical test. If something can give me that boost to get me where I need to be, or at least to a point where it will be easier to get there, then I'll take it.
Everyone's body is different and if you can gain weight when eating, great. But for me, and my mother and her siblings, and her father, we don't. I did a 4,000 calorie a day diet and all it did was cost a lot of money in food.
 

Whisky

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Maybe I can still gain naturally, but maybe I don't want to. I'm 28. The thing is I need to gain quickly for a physical test. If something can give me that boost to get me where I need to be, or at least to a point where it will be easier to get there, then I'll take it.
Everyone's body is different and if you can gain weight when eating, great. But for me, and my mother and her siblings, and her father, we don't. I did a 4,000 calorie a day diet and all it did was cost a lot of money in food.
bro, 4,000 calories isn’t that extreme. Especially if you are active. You also need to be honest about whether that was 4,000 every day (did you track, weigh food etc) - this isn’t me saying you are lying by the way and I’m genuinely trying to help you. I have seen countless people be 1,000 Cals or more out (either up or down) when asked how much they eat.

It’s also worth noting that just because most people would grow at that sort of number it’s not true for everyone. You may have to force down 5-6,000. Using whole milk, nut butters, easy to digest carbs etc can help to reach those numbers. That probably sounds like extreme amounts of food but honestly, virtually everyone on here will have done 10k plus calorie cheat days before - it’s very doable.

id be a dick advising you to take any compound with your stats man.
 

Joshinator

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So I'm new to all this...just tired of being small and feeling so weak. I feel like I've hit a plateau and can't go any higher but I'm not where I want to be. I guess I'm looking for guidance.

I'll list what I'm looking for first:
1. Legal (I'm in USA). I know that real gear is the best option and it's stupid that it's illegal in the first place but I absolutely need to stay legal.
2. Strength over size. Getting huge isn't really what I'm going for - bigger yes, but I imagine that size will come with strength. I'm really not sure if there are cycles designed for one or the other or if both are a result of any cycle, but I'll mention it just in case it does factor in.

I'm 6 foot and about 145 pounds. Not very much body fat. Always been skinny and no amount of eating has made me weigh more than 160 pounds in my entire life.

With all that said, and after reading through websites and this forum, it seems like epiandro (Stano Plex?), 1-andro, and 11kt (xi-kt?) are good choices. What about DMZ?

Any help is appreciated.
I was a similar geight and weight and i didnt start putting on weight untill i ate more. And even more than i thought i had to. Count your calories and eat 3500 a day and you will gain.


Or


Eddie hall i believe suggested drinking a gallon of whole milk every day. Do that on top of your normal meals and you will put on weight. Guaranteed.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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ok so you are most interested in strength. as it is.. literally everyone has given great advice here so I wont pile on too much but yea, you need to eat so much that you are taking 2-3 giant turds a day... yes I said it.. you should be forcing so much down that you have to crap giant wrinkle necked brown trouts at least twice per day.!

ok that said.. for you.. EPI ANDRO. at high doses it makes you feel very strong and aggressive. I like several brands and there are a lot of options.
my favorites in no particular order:
Gainbusters (encapsulated)
Vicious labs (encapsulated)
Apex Alchemy (topical)
PRE (topical and encapsulated)

this is as mild as it gets but is very effective at a reasonable dosages. I would even say that you may possibly get away with an OTC equivilant post cycle therapy.
 
thebigt

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ok so you are most interested in strength. as it is.. literally everyone has given great advice here so I wont pile on too much but yea, you need to eat so much that you are taking 2-3 giant turds a day... yes I said it.. you should be forcing so much down that you have to crap giant wrinkle necked brown trouts at least twice per day.!

ok that said.. for you.. EPI ANDRO. at high doses it makes you feel very strong and aggressive. I like several brands and there are a lot of options.
my favorites in no particular order:
Gainbusters (encapsulated)
Vicious labs (encapsulated)
Apex Alchemy (topical)
PRE (topical and encapsulated)

this is as mild as it gets but is very effective at a reasonable dosages. I would even say that you may possibly get away with an OTC equivilant post cycle therapy.
lol...brown trouts.

don't forget alpha gainz-ALPHA ANDRO. unfortunately ALPHA SEVEN is sold out or I would be highly recommending it. but ICON ONE is definitely a nice, mild cycle with gains and none to little sides.
 
booneman77

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Maybe I can still gain naturally, but maybe I don't want to. I'm 28. The thing is I need to gain quickly for a physical test. If something can give me that boost to get me where I need to be, or at least to a point where it will be easier to get there, then I'll take it.
Everyone's body is different and if you can gain weight when eating, great. But for me, and my mother and her siblings, and her father, we don't. I did a 4,000 calorie a day diet and all it did was cost a lot of money in food.
Im gonna start by saying these guys are right... there is ZERO reason (unless you have a legitimate medical problem) that you cannot gain FAR more naturally from where you are... You likely just need to shovel down calories like crazy... for the cost, you can easily keep this very reasonable (max $30 a day should be more than easy with the right food choices).

That said, CEL Stano-Plex would be my suggestion if you absolutely must have something to help. Its safe, totally legal, and will give you enough of a boost to make a pretty hefty difference. YOU WILL STILL NEED TO EAT. No matter what cycle you would choose, you have to remember that almost all anabolics will cause better usage of the calories you eat but will also likely ramp up your metabolism with the muscle gains you make. If you want to add mass, and want it fast, you MUST MUST MUST eat like a cow. No amount of anabolics (even the big boys) will completely outwork a diet that doesn't meet the needs of your body. its simple physics that you can't create mass out of nothing.
 

Mathb33

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Maybe I can still gain naturally, but maybe I don't want to. I'm 28. The thing is I need to gain quickly for a physical test. If something can give me that boost to get me where I need to be, or at least to a point where it will be easier to get there, then I'll take it.
Everyone's body is different and if you can gain weight when eating, great. But for me, and my mother and her siblings, and her father, we don't. I did a 4,000 calorie a day diet and all it did was cost a lot of money in food.
personally I never said you needed to stay natural and if you’ve done your research and weighted in the pros and cons and wanna go for it go. I simply pointed if you’re still at that weight, nutrition is still an aspect you don’t understand well and you need to figure that out or prohormones/steroids won’t help any better. You need ALOT of food. I challenge you to buy a scale and weight in everything you eat and go for 3000 calories a day. I bet you’ll be struggle to eat that amount yet it’s what’s required for you to gain, an ectomorph hard gainer. I was where you were. I’m 5 foot 10 210 13% atm. I eat probably almost your daily macro just in my first 5 hours of the day.
 
Renew1

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Everybody has given you great advice.
But most guys don't want great advice, they want magic.

Well this is close to magic:

Eat a LOT.
Nope ...more than that.
And stock up on your favorite foods. And whole milk, ice cream, peanut butter, weight gain powder, etc.
And eat it OFTEN. And at night, right before bed should be your last "meal". .... But now it won't be. .....whenever you wake up at night, eat that pb& j, or ice cream, or that weight-gain shake you've learned to make, with: whole milk, ice cream, peanut butter, and weight gain powder.

You'll gain weight.
Yes, you will.

Almost everyone on this board thought like you, at one point in their life. And they (WE) were wrong.

:)
 

CroLifter

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Imho you dont need steroids at your stats.

However, if you have troubles gainign mass, i dont see why you cant use some mk677. It will give you appetite boost big time, definitely will pack on some mass and give you advantage over being natty and wont shut you down as it is not AAS, so no danger to your natural test production at all.
 

Whisky

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Imho you dont need steroids at your stats.

However, if you have troubles gainign mass, i dont see why you cant use some mk677. It will give you appetite boost big time, definitely will pack on some mass and give you advantage over being natty and wont shut you down as it is not AAS, so no danger to your natural test production at all.
that’s a very good idea imo
 

Joshinator

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Eat a LOT.

You'll gain weight.
Yes, you will.

Almost everyone on this board thought like you, at one point in their life. And they (WE) were wrong.

:)
I thought that too, i used to think i was eating 3000+ calories a day.. until i started counting calories and realized i was undershooting it.

Id say things like “my body wont gain weight, no matter what” but that wasnt true. I was just under eating
 

CroLifter

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I thought that too, i used to think i was eating 3000+ calories a day.. until i started counting calories and realized i was undershooting it.

Id say things like “my body wont gain weight, no matter what” but that wasnt true. I was just under eating
Or...he can reduce activity level. I know lots of people working physical jobs and they cannot gain for sh1t. Being all day in the hot sun doesnt help at all. You just cant eat.
 
thebigt

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Or...he can reduce activity level. I know lots of people working physical jobs and they cannot gain for sh1t. Being all day in the hot sun doesnt help at all. You just cant eat.
I could go all day working in the sun without eating, but when I get home, shower and get in the a/c for a minute it's Wilbur time. but you are right, I could never gain weight in the summer-without some serious enhancement, lol.
 
dillface02241

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Maybe I can still gain naturally, but maybe I don't want to. I'm 28. The thing is I need to gain quickly for a physical test. If something can give me that boost to get me where I need to be, or at least to a point where it will be easier to get there, then I'll take it.
Everyone's body is different and if you can gain weight when eating, great. But for me, and my mother and her siblings, and her father, we don't. I did a 4,000 calorie a day diet and all it did was cost a lot of money in food.
I was like you when I was younger; a hard gainer. It was very difficult to put on any kind of weight, but in high school, I didn't have a choice as I wanted to wrestle at 145 (best guy was a dick and really needed to beat him) and was 132. I remember drinking a lot of that Weider weight gain **** after workouts, when I woke up, etc. It did work, but it was the first fat I ever saw on me.

Try some weight gainer, lift hard, and go on the seefood diet. You'll gain eventually
 
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