Nolva clomid

steve_ifbb

Member
Hey guys I'm nowhere near my pct but just thought I would ask. I'm running 500 iu hcg eod for about 18 days I believe and then jumping on Nolva/clomid. Just wondering why it's important to run BOTH and not one or the other. I know the hcg is important so im def running that, can someone just clarify the other part. Appreciate it guys.
 
It's what my guy (where I get my stuff) told me to run hcg ,Nolva and clomid. Would there be any benefits to this?
 
Ok sounds good bro thanks man. So my cycle is 16 weeks. I was told to start the hcg towards the end of cycle. What week would you start it at?
 
Dbol for 6 weeks at 50 mg. test cyp now switched to test enanthate at 750 mg a week. Eq at 500 mg a week. Throwing some winstrol in to harden up for 4 weeks as well so from week 8-12 I'll be on winstrol as well.
 
steve_ifbb said:
Hey guys I'm nowhere near my pct but just thought I would ask. I'm running 500 iu hcg eod for about 18 days I believe and then jumping on Nolva/clomid. Just wondering why it's important to run BOTH and not one or the other. I know the hcg is important so im def running that, can someone just clarify the other part. Appreciate it guys.
Click to expand...

You could very well run one or the other. The only thing I have heard about running them both concurrently is that Nolva can be pretty harsh/toxic to some and can stress the liver a little more. So running Clomid with Nolva COULD help offset this. Perhaps you could get "Your Guy" to explain his theory.
 
Axillist said:
You could very well run one or the other. The only thing I have heard about running them both concurrently is that Nolva can be pretty harsh/toxic to some and can stress the liver a little more. So running Clomid with Nolva COULD help offset this. Perhaps you could get "Your Guy" to explain his theory.
Click to expand...

Lol so how would throwing another pill in the equation make it less harsh on the liver? That doesn't make much sense to me. Ya I'll def ask my guy . Thanks boys
 
So you're saying 500 iu Ed from week 15-17 will work well? Then start Nolva at 40/40/20/20 starting week 18. Sound legit?
 
Ok so.. Week 16 will be my last week of test at 500 mg. start hcg that same week, run 500 iu for 2 weeks. Wait a week then start my Nolva.
 
steve_ifbb said:
Lol so how would throwing another pill in the equation make it less harsh on the liver? That doesn't make much sense to me. Ya I'll def ask my guy . Thanks boys
Click to expand...

I didn't say it's proven logic just my only theory on why someone would do it. Since Clomid is easier on the liver you would cut the dose of the Nolva down and hence make it more liver friendly. Just my best guess.
 
lol when i first read this i though you were JUST running hCG and then nolva/clomid and i was so confused.

I like to run nolva ON cycle to keep estro sides low and clomid during PCT. Its a personal preference, the two are both SERMs with only a minor difference in the mode of action.
 
CrazyChemist said:
lol when i first read this i though you were JUST running hCG and then nolva/clomid and i was so confused.

I like to run nolva ON cycle to keep estro sides low and clomid during PCT. Its a personal preference, the two are both SERMs with only a minor difference in the mode of action.
Click to expand...

I thought the chemical chains were very similar but I'm no chemistry guru.
 
steve_ifbb said:
Dbol for 6 weeks at 50 mg. test cyp now switched to test enanthate at 750 mg a week. Eq at 500 mg a week. Throwing some winstrol in to harden up for 4 weeks as well so from week 8-12 I'll be on winstrol as well.
Click to expand...
Thank goodness...when I read your original post, I thought you were saying that you were running hcg as your anabolic! lol

500ius eod for 18 days seems a bit excessive on the hcg...I'm not saying it'll cause damage, it just seems like more than you need. I'd say doing 250ius eod wouldn't be terribly over-kill, or a bad idea. Others can weigh in on that, though.
 
Nolva and clomid are used for different purposes. It's fine to use them both. If anything clomid and hcg are more similar in their purpose.
 
gregg1494 said:
It is important for the HCG administration to have been completed with 6 or 7 clear days before the onset of PCT in order to avoid inhibition of the Nolvadex and/or clomid therapy
Click to expand...

How is hcg going to "inhibit" nolva. Please elaborate.

It's my understanding hcg is used to stimulate lh/fsh while nolva (in this case) would be used to minimize chance of gyno due to estrogen rebound. Two different things...
 
FitModel said:
How is hcg going to "inhibit" nolva. Please elaborate.

It's my understanding hcg is used to stimulate lh/fsh while nolva (in this case) would be used to minimize chance of gyno due to estrogen rebound. Two different things...
Click to expand...

Hcg is suppressive itself.. Thats why you dont want to use it dor pct
 
GreenEarth said:
Thank goodness...when I read your original post, I thought you were saying that you were running hcg as your anabolic! lol

500ius eod for 18 days seems a bit excessive on the hcg...I'm not saying it'll cause damage, it just seems like more than you need. I'd say doing 250ius eod wouldn't be terribly over-kill, or a bad idea. Others can weigh in on that, though.
Click to expand...

What about 500 iu eod for 2 weeks?
 
Sounds like you know your stuff bro. Thanks a lot for that breakdown. I will start my hcg from week 16-18 at 500 iu eod. Then start my Nolva week 19 40/40/20/20. Would there be any point to throw clomid in there as well Greg?
 
Axillist said:
I thought the chemical chains were very similar but I'm no chemistry guru.
Click to expand...

Nolvadex is the trade name for tamoxifen. Clomid is the trade name for clomiphene. Here is a little wikipedia copypasta:

Tamoxifen is an Invalid Link Removed of the Invalid Link Removed in Invalid Link Removed via its active Invalid Link Removed, hydroxytamoxifen. In other tissues such as the Invalid Link Removed, it behaves as an Invalid Link Removed, and thus may be characterized as a mixed agonist/antagonist. Tamoxifen is the usual Invalid Link Removed (anti-Invalid Link Removed) therapy for Invalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed in Invalid Link Removed women, and is also a standard in post-menopausal women although Invalid Link Removed are also frequently used in that setting.
Click to expand...

Clomifene (Invalid Link Removed) or clomiphene (Invalid Link Removed) (also known as Clomifert), marketed as Clomid, is a Invalid Link Removed (SERM) that increases production of Invalid Link Removed by inhibiting Invalid Link Removed on the Invalid Link Removed. It is used mainly in Invalid Link Removed, in turn mainly as Invalid Link Removed to reverse Invalid Link Removed or Invalid Link Removed such as in Invalid Link Removed, as well as being used for Invalid Link Removed, such as part of an Invalid Link Removed procedure. Clomifene citrate is marketed under various trade names including Clomid, Serophene, and Milophene.
Click to expand...

As a chemist I can tell you that the two structures have a very similar three ring aromatic system but clomid is activated by an electron withdrawing halogen to function in certain cells whereas nolva has a less sterically hindered amine on its side chain, making it more active in the breast tissue specifically.


FitModel said:
Nolva and clomid are used for different purposes. It's fine to use them both. If anything clomid and hcg are more similar in their purpose.
Click to expand...

This is not true. Nolva and Clomid are both SERMs (selective estrogen-receptor modulators). The word "selective" indicates that a specific type of receptor is targeted and thus one may be more active than another in a certain type of tissue, e.g. breast tissue. Clomid and hCG are VERY different in their purpose.


FitModel said:
How is hcg going to "inhibit" nolva. Please elaborate.

It's my understanding hcg is used to stimulate lh/fsh while nolva (in this case) would be used to minimize chance of gyno due to estrogen rebound. Two different things...
Click to expand...

Please see the guide on this forum here - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/141577-unreals-guide-injectables.html - and the section written by me on hCG.
 
gregg1494 said:
if you have both nolva and clomid i say why not. it would help cover all angles. since clomid and nolva are both better and doing slightly different things.
something like
Day 1 - clomid 100mg + Nolvadex 40mg
Following 6 days - clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg
Following 21 days - clomid 50mg or Nolvadex 20mg
Click to expand...

I just like nolva better for possible gyno sides because its so active in breast tissue. I like Clomid at 200 for 2 days, 150 for 2 days, 100 for 4 days, one week at 50, one week at 50 EOD with an AI thrown in the mix like adex. But I PCT as hard as i cycle.
 
gregg1494 said:
People should pct as hard as cycle. its just as important, if not more important the the cycle itself. it lets you maintains gains and is what lets you return to normal hormonal production.
Click to expand...

Exactly, my pct usually runs about 8 weeks, sometimes longer. I like 3-4 weeks on a serm, followed by low dose adex and lean xtreme, followed by a natural test booster and more lean xtreme. And believe it or not I'm actually one of those guys who gets blood work done after!
 
I've got some adex as well. Shall I throw that into the mix like crazy chemist does? How do you dose that in your pct? And how many weeks?
 
steve_ifbb said:
I've got some adex as well. Shall I throw that into the mix like crazy chemist does? How do you dose that in your pct? And how many weeks?
Click to expand...

As you taper off the SERM sometimes you can experience a bounce-back effect. The recommendation is to run the adex at something like 0.25mg/day for a week. Then maybe 3 additional doses at EOD.

EDIT: I listen to my body and the way I'm feeling and try to titrate my doses accordingly. I'm also one of the few that ACTUALLY get my bloodwork done regularly for a more quantitative analysis of whats going on in my body.
 
gregg1494 said:
if you have both nolva and clomid i say why not. it would help cover all angles. since clomid and nolva are both better and doing slightly different things.
something like
Day 1 - clomid 100mg + Nolvadex 40mg
Following 6 days - clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg
Following 21 days - clomid 50mg or Nolvadex 20mg
Click to expand...

Ok
So let me get this straight. Final pct layout. Week 16-18 hcg at 500 iu eod. Week 19. Clomid 100 mg, Nolva 40 mg for the first day, second till 7th day 50 mg clomid and 20 mg Nolva. Then I see you say following 21 days, clomid 50 mg OR Nolva.. So pick one or the other for the following 21 days? Also I'm throwing in a natural test booster called hcgenerate 3 days before pct and running all the way through pct... Can you just clarify the last 21 day part.. Thanks man
 
Ok so why do people always say run it at 40/40/20/20 out OT curiosity? I do have an ai. Arimidex. Where/how would I throw that into my pct. I appreciate all your help Bro, I really want to have a solid pct
 
gregg1494 said:
that's just another,more common, way to dose it. Start from beginning of pct .5/.5/.25/.25/.25 all EoD
Click to expand...

I've heard that running adex while in Nolva clomid isn't a good thing.. :/ was that wrong
 
Steve - reps for doing good research. Your original PCT was fine and wouldve worked great. We're just fine-tuning it a little bit. MY RECOMMENDATION is save the nolva for on cycle gyno sides and use the clomid for pct. I like to run it for 3 weeks, 200/100/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/0/50/0/50/0/50. During the EOD clomid i run adex 0.25 on clomid off days and then 0.25 eod for another week plus a natural t-booster, which i usually run w/ lean xtreme and run that for a full 4 additional weeks. My cycles are serious, like 16 week test e cycles with a kick and a tail so i pct HARD. Let me knwo if you have anymore questions.
 
Thanks man! I appreciate all the help. I'm kinda going hard for my first cycle at test e 750 mg a week for 16 weeks, eq at 500 mg a week for 14 weeks, dbol 50 mg for my first 6 weeks, winstrol for another 4 weeks from week 8-12, so I want to pct hard and do it really well. I will follow your lead. So only run adex on my off days of clomid . So final pct layout, hcg 500 iu eod from week 16-18, week off then start my clomid at the dose you recommended for 3 weeks, so week 19-22 clomid with adex on my off days then adex from week 22-23 while running my natural test booster.
 
One more thing, since I have Nolva as well, if I don't get any Gyno sides on cycle, would there be any point to throw the Nolva somewhere in pct as well? So it doesn't go to waste.
 
Hey guys also if im shooting 500 iu hcg eod for two weeks that only = 8 days.. Should I do 500 iu ED for 14 days instead?
 
gregg1494 said:
I recommend everyday. Some do different.
Click to expand...

500 every day has a very serious risk of oversensitizing your testes. You only need 500 - 750 per week in 2 or three doses. 100 iu per day would be good even. That is if you are running it during the cycle. Did you mean at the end? In that case you could go up to a few thousand iu every other day for a week or two.

edit: read the whole thread you're good lol
 
Steve - You're taking on a massive cycle but you're going to have FUN on it and you really done your research. Be prepared to titrate your compounds if sides get crazy. Hit me up with any problems. A note on hCG, you can run the hCG ON cycle to keep testes working. Its a compound to keep the boys active. Check out Unreal's Guide to Injectables (I wrote the hCG portion). Hit my up on pm of whatever if you need any help while youre on. I think you are going to have a great time tho, make the most of it with a great diet and training.
 
Thanks a lot bro I appreciate the help. I think I'm gonna run the hcg 500 iu eod for 3 weeks instead of 500 iu Ed for 2 weeks.
 
CrazyChemist said:
Steve - You're taking on a massive cycle but you're going to have FUN on it and you really done your research. Be prepared to titrate your compounds if sides get crazy. Hit me up with any problems. A note on hCG, you can run the hCG ON cycle to keep testes working. Its a compound to keep the boys active. Check out Unreal's Guide to Injectables (I wrote the hCG portion). Hit my up on pm of whatever if you need any help while youre on. I think you are going to have a great time tho, make the most of it with a great diet and training.
Click to expand...

Tried to pm you bro but it said you can't receive any more
Messages lol. Was just wondering since I have the nolvadex would I be able to throw it somewhere into the pct or just stick with the clomid? Thanks man
 
CrazyChemist said:
Steve - You're taking on a massive cycle but you're going to have FUN on it and you really done your research. Be prepared to titrate your compounds if sides get crazy. Hit me up with any problems. A note on hCG, you can run the hCG ON cycle to keep testes working. Its a compound to keep the boys active. Check out Unreal's Guide to Injectables (I wrote the hCG portion). Hit my up on pm of whatever if you need any help while youre on. I think you are going to have a great time tho, make the most of it with a great diet and training.
Click to expand...

what is your opinion of using nolva as your serm in pct instead of clomid?
 
steve_ifbb said:
Tried to pm you bro but it said you can't receive any more
Messages lol. Was just wondering since I have the nolvadex would I be able to throw it somewhere into the pct or just stick with the clomid? Thanks man
Click to expand...

At some point you saturate your estro receptors with the antagonist (the SERM). Could it hurt? No. I personally would hold it, as most ppl run more than one cycle. Are you already done with your cycle? If have just started or are about to start you might want to run the nolva low dose, esp if you find nipple soreness. I'll check my inbox and see whats up. Must have alot of PMs.

bigdavid said:
what is your opinion of using nolva as your serm in pct instead of clomid?
Click to expand...

Nolva and clomid are both SERMs so either is fine, in theory. In practice everyone responds a little differently to a compound. I have found clomid gives me a nice return to normal production, based on my feeling but verified by bloodwork. Nolva has been successful as a PCT on its own as well and used by plenty. I personally recommend it for on cycle to eliminate the risk of gyno sides and that is how I use it. But there isn't a one-size-fits-all answer, just like some guys can't run more than 500mg test EW without massive sides while others can run 1000mg (for example).
 
CrazyChemist said:
Steve - You're taking on a massive cycle but you're going to have FUN on it and you really done your research. Be prepared to titrate your compounds if sides get crazy. Hit me up with any problems. A note on hCG, you can run the hCG ON cycle to keep testes working. Its a compound to keep the boys active. Check out Unreal's Guide to Injectables (I wrote the hCG portion). Hit my up on pm of whatever if you need any help while youre on. I think you are going to have a great time tho, make the most of it with a great diet and training.
Click to expand...

I'm becoming a fan of this guy!
 
Hey crazy chemist one more thing. Since I'm gonna be running hcg eod for 3 weeks, and I'm supposed to start my clomid 2 weeks after last Injection, but Greg said wait a week to start clomid after the hcg. So that would mean I would be doing my last poke on week 17, and starting clomid week 20 I stead of week 19... Is that a big issue? If it is I guess I could run hcg ED at 500 iu for 2 weeks instead that way I'd be getting my clomid in 2 weeks After last poke. Let me know what you think. Thanks bro.
 
steve_ifbb said:
Hey crazy chemist one more thing. Since I'm gonna be running hcg eod for 3 weeks, and I'm supposed to start my clomid 2 weeks after last Injection, but Greg said wait a week to start clomid after the hcg. So that would mean I would be doing my last poke on week 17, and starting clomid week 20 I stead of week 19... Is that a big issue? If it is I guess I could run hcg ED at 500 iu for 2 weeks instead that way I'd be getting my clomid in 2 weeks After last poke. Let me know what you think. Thanks bro.
Click to expand...

Hi Steve - Def get on the clomid within 2 weeks of stopping the test e (btw if you wanted to run a SERM during those 2 weeks, as the test e is clearing your system that would be okay, this might be a good place to throw in that nolva like u wanted). The hCG, I recommend running your hCG WITH the test e to keep your endogenous test production up. You can run the hCG AND the test e at the same time (I recommend doing exactly that) That said, there is no MAJOR downside to one week overlap of SERM and hCG, but the SERM will get the hypothalumus to make LH (hCG's native cousin) Read this (theres a section on hCG) --> http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/141577-unreals-guide-injectables.html
 
Sounds good man. I'll def give it a read. Im
Gonna be running the hcg with the test but I'll be off the test after that week. So starting the hcg week 16 and finishing the test end of week 16 as well. Then I guess I'll run the hcg 500 iu till week 18. So you're saying start the Nolva week 17-19 till I hop on the clomid? Say 20 mg a day for those two week? Or would you up the dose?
 
steve_ifbb said:
Sounds good man. I'll def give it a read. Im
Gonna be running the hcg with the test but I'll be off the test after that week. So starting the hcg week 16 and finishing the test end of week 16 as well. Then I guess I'll run the hcg 500 iu till week 18. So you're saying start the Nolva week 17-19 till I hop on the clomid? Say 20 mg a day for those two week? Or would you up the dose?
Click to expand...
That sounds like a solid PCT steve. I think youre going to have a sweet 4 month cycle, a 1.5 month smooth pct and i look forward to talking to you on the other side, circa november when youre dominating those weights everyday.

I cleared out my inbox and I'm back from a long hiatus so I'll be checking it regularly. Im still subbed to this thread if you want to post here or feel free to PM me anytime.
 
p.s. I'm jealous bro! I wish I was jumping into a 16 week test e cycle, thats how I like to do it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top