NO, CEE, etc. Cause accelerated growth? Really?

Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
They give you a pump. Yes.

More water in the cell. OK.

Look bigger, more cut, allright.

Even lift more. Good.

But do these products actually cause an increase in muscle growth? I've searched for the answer and there just doesn't seem to be one.

I mean, nothing against a good pump and lifting more, that's always good. Even putting on 10lbs of "muscle", sure. But it isn't really new muscle. When you get off these supps, the amount you initially gained comes off. Are you left with better growth from having taken them?

If so, how?

Since it looks like there's a new ban coming out, I guess it might be worth it to dig into this subject... I'm no biochemist though... Can anyone shed any light? That sure would be nice. Thanks
 
Creatine has been proven to add muscle mass to users, many studies have shown this.

NO products are a different subject though, it hasn't been proven but the claims are just that with the increase in blood flow to recently worked muscles it helps nutrients get in and do their magic which would increase muscle growth. take from what you will ive used one or two NO products and i dont think its anything special.
 
NO products don't really have any evidence backing up the fact that they can add muscle mass. Not that I'ce seen.

Creatine increases your energy and your work capacity. This leads to more effective workouts which, if done right, will lead to more growth over time. The retained water is a good thing as well. However, creatine also causes increased activity in stem cells surrounding damaged muscle cells which could indeed promote muscle growth directly.
 
You ay find this interesting:

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Effects of arginine and ornithine on strength, lean body mass and urinary hydroxyproline in adult males.

Elam RP, Hardin DH, Sutton RA, Hagen L.

Twenty-two adult males participated in a 5 week progressive strength training program. One half the subjects received the amino acids L-arginine and L-ornithine and the other half, a placebo. The study used a double blind protocol so that subjects as well as investigators had no knowledge of which substances were being administered. Dosages amounted to 2 grams or 1 gram each of L-arginine and L-ornithine, and 600 mg of calcium and 1 gram of Vitamin C as placebos. These supplements were taken orally for a total of 25 administrations. Following the short term strength program using progressively high intensities, tests were taken for total strength (TS), lean body mass (LBM) and urinary hydroxyproline (UH). The results from ANOVA showed that subjects who were taking the arginine-ornithine combination scored significantly higher in TS and LBM (p less than .05), and significantly lower in UH (p less than .05), than subjects on placebos. It was concluded that arginine and ornithine taken in prescribed doses can, in conjunction with a high intensity strength training program, increase TS and LBM in a relatively short period of time. Arginine and ornithine also aid in recovery from chronic stress by quelling tissue breakdown as evidenced by lower UH levels.
 
The arginine ornithine studies have been going on for a long time. I worked at a golf course one summer.Met a nutrionist from Princeton while working one day.He noticed I was a large 16 year old football player. They had just finished a study using arginine ornithine and trytophan. It showed that this was a powerful GH releaser. That was in 1984!! Asked me if I wanted to try it out..I told him I could not afford it..He had a bunch left over from the study and gave me the 3 for free..I know I put a lot of strengeth and size on that summer. When school started everyone asked me how I got so big..I told them but no one could afford it. A months supply back then was like 120.00 bucks. It works..but then they banned tryptophan..
 
I have always understood that NO products (arginine) give you the pump that will get more weight on the bar. Not make you bigger just consuming it.

Personal experience (using VPX Muscle Nitrous with and without AEX), gives me huge pumps - which in turn and somehow push up a hell lot of more weight on the bar than without. Then muscle will grow - not b/c of the NO, but b/c of the weight you push has increased and then muscle will grow.

I could also sniff a line and get the same feeling, but this is safer imo. heh

If you ever get out of the mood to go to the gym like me sometimes, Ill take a dose of NO and without 20minutes ready to workout for the rest of the night.

It is really just an inhancer - helping you along your way.

shct
 
The Godfather said:
You ay find this interesting:

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Effects of arginine and ornithine on strength, lean body mass and urinary hydroxyproline in adult males.
Click to expand...

Know if the full text is available online anywhere? I never saw that one before. I was aware of evidence for GH release from combos of arginine and lysine, and I've seen arginine ornithine combos but never sawevidence quote for their support.
 
Good info guys, thanks.

I'm starting GABA, Arginine and Ornithine as a cheap GH-stack. Which isn't the same as NO products intend to do but worth a try IMO...
 
Here is a interesting finding on creatine.

The effects of ergogenic compounds on myogenic satellite cells.

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Muscle Biology Laboratory, Department of Animal Sciences, Washington State University, Pullman, WA 99164, USA.

PURPOSE: A series of studies were conducted in which compounds commonly shown to be ergogenic aids for strength athletes if taken orally were evaluated for their ability to directly induce postnatal muscle stem cell proliferation or differentiation/fusion in vitro. METHODS: Compounds tested were creatine monohydrate, creatine pyruvate, L-glutamine, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), androstenedione, Ma Huang (Ephedra sinensis) extract, and Zhi Shi (Citrus aurantium) extract. Dulbecco's modified eagle medium, supplemented with minimal levels of serum and antibiotics, was used as the initial vehicle for the test compounds. Subsequently, a defined treatment medium termed ITTC was used. Satellite cells were exposed to the test compounds for the indicated times and then evaluated by counting mononucleated and multinucleated (fused) cells. RESULTS: In serum-containing media, none of the treatment groups displayed increased proliferation over that of the control. However, in the differentiation cultures, 0.10% creatine monohydrate increased differentiation over that of the control cultures. When 0.10% creatine monohydrate was added to defined media formulations, all treatments but one demonstrated increased differentiation over the 0.5% serum control. Time course experiments, which followed the effect of 0.10% creatine monohydrate contained in ITTC defined media over 120 h, suggested that cells exposed to this treatment differentiated earlier and to a greater level than cells exposed to ITTC alone. CONCLUSIONS: Creatine in the monohydrate form induced differentiation of myogenic satellite cells. Other agents examined did not increase satellite cell proliferation or differentiation. These results provide initial evidence for a mechanistic understanding of observed effects in vivo of increased muscular size and strength from creatine supplementation.

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i've found from personal expeirence i get a good pump from NO2, but not size, but with stacking NO2 with CE2 I have noticed strenght but no mass just the creatine water retention.
Im the only one who can create my own mass I feel.
 
Grunt76 said:
They give you a pump. Yes.

More water in the cell. OK.

Look bigger, more cut, allright.

Even lift more. Good.

But do these products actually cause an increase in muscle growth? I've searched for the answer and there just doesn't seem to be one.

I mean, nothing against a good pump and lifting more, that's always good. Even putting on 10lbs of "muscle", sure. But it isn't really new muscle. When you get off these supps, the amount you initially gained comes off. Are you left with better growth from having taken them?

If so, how?

Since it looks like there's a new ban coming out, I guess it might be worth it to dig into this subject... I'm no biochemist though... Can anyone shed any light? That sure would be nice. Thanks
Click to expand...

Here is an excellent thread from Musclegurus with studies proving that creatine increases lbm aside from increases in water weight...even in non-exercising subjects! The researchers in the first study in the thread came to the conclusion that "The increase in lean body mass often reported after creatine supplementation could be mediated by signaling pathway(s) involving IGF and 4E-BP1."
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how abt this? NO increases bloodflow to muscles and thus more nutrients to e muscles. This in turn increases the recovery rate, allow users to train more intensively. :hammer:
 
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