Yeah and Biotest told us that MethoxyFlavone was going to rip anybody up at doses of 200mgs!!! Please, i have used No2 and pissed my my $65 down the drain, but got free samples of the PumpTech, and smashed weights, and when it was broke as hell I used Larginine at 8 grams a day 4 pre 4 post and had amazing pumps. Not to mention the Pumps i get from Noxplode, and you mean to tell me the hundreds of customers who I have sold Noxplode have a plecebo effect, who repeatedly buy from me at Vitamin World are mistaken. I def believe some things don't work for some people, but Tnation is bashing Cissus, when the damn FDA and the pharma companies were making a stink and how good it works, plus anecdotal evidence on this board shows how it works. Anyway this thread is old as ****, but to see another tnation quote bashing I get a lil heated, considering Biotest used to be hardcore...