Night TIme Nutrition
- Thread starter Big Joe
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YellowJacket
Banned
YellowJacket
Banned
Awww...how cute....next year she'll get you a few chickens if you're lucky....
sage
Well-known member
i got a weakness in my diet and thats my late night meals (its high in protein and low carbs but i cannot seem to take in whole foods like cottagecheese, tuna, eggs at night. protein powders and lowcarb bars seem to settle better in my stomach when it get late. and the lowfat/no sugar added icecream is almost a ritual at night (i add a scoop of powder though.....ha)
ChaseRoy
New member
to all you guys that are having cottage cheese and milk before you go to bed...There is 13g of carbs in one cup of milk. Not only are they carbs, but they are also simple carbs...this is a big no no for building muscle. If you spike the insulin at night (which having simple carbs does) you supress a key hormone in your body-Growth Hormone. This is not a good thing considering the bulk of your gh is sucreeted (sp.?) at night. I also believe that you are increasing your cotisol levels by late night carbs. Also a bad thing. Just thought I would add my two sense...you may want to forgo the sugars.
Chemo
Brewing Anabolic Minds
Lifeguard said:
The microwaves do disrupt the structure of the protein but is incredibly able to resume form after it is no longer irradiated. There are various types of bonds that give a protein its shape (not only the hydrogen bonds that are affected by microwaves). Structure and shape defines a protein's function...
Also, what do our bodies salvage from the proteins? The hydrogens? Oxygens? NITROGEN?? It doesn't matter all that much if the protein is denatured because it is not the structure that we are interested in...it is the nitrogen.
Chemo
Supa Freek 420
E-BOLLER
1/2 cottage cheese, 1/2 yogurt
MassMachine
New member
Even though i cant stand cottege cheese, i ussualy manage to force feed myself about a cup with some pinapple in it every night, its been getting better as ive been getting more used to the taste, but i will never like it. Ussualy right before bed ill down that then my protein shake and im asleep.
MassMachine
New member
well its a very small amount, like 3 peices, just something to get the cottage cheese down with. Also pinnaple has good enzymes.
"THE TICK"
New member
if i get up 2 pee @ night i go ahead & eat some cottage w/ peaches & strawberries, and a cup of milk w/ a couple scoops of whey.
wildman536
Active member
so whats the verdict on th eegg white/microwave thing because thats the only way i eat them??????????
jweave23
Registered User
Well, lactose in milk is a simple sugar, although I believe it only about 32 on the GI scale. It is a low GI carb. I have seen arguments regarding insulin spiking from milk, I personally do not believe that it is that high of a spike, if much at all.
To avoid milk at night because of a small amount of low GI carbs does not make sense to me; in that I believe the positives of a slowly releasing casein protein outweigh the (IMO) insignificant spike from lactose.
To avoid milk at night because of a small amount of low GI carbs does not make sense to me; in that I believe the positives of a slowly releasing casein protein outweigh the (IMO) insignificant spike from lactose.
YellowJacket
Banned
As do I, people avoid carbs late at night etc. because they arent used and store as fat, but say you train early in the day or its an off day and you consume a normal amount of carbs....what do you do the rest of the day, sit at work? watch TV? Arent you worried about those carbs storing as fat? No. Eating a small amount of carbs before bed wont break you or your diet, people are too paranoid about this issue largely due to misleading articles etc.jweave23 said:
crazypete
Member
i'm with YJ on this one. if you are getting an insulin spike from a couple of glasses of milk, your system is pretty messed up, oh wait, your probably dead. milk, eggs, cottage cheese will do the trick and the little carbs may actually help stop catabolism. as for the whey, save it for when you wake up and mix with a slow protein or before and after lifting. if you chose to take whey at other times, mix with a slower protein, although it will not be more effective than other animal based sources.
as for protein degradation don't worry, we DO NOT digest whole proteins. this is why all the extra growth fractions in whey isolate don't help any more than whey concentrate. our intestines absorb only tripeptides (3 amino acids attached to each other) or smaller. proteins are much larger 100's or even 1000's of amino acids long. degredation simply means that the shape of the protein is altered and it will not be able to function as it should. the first thing that happens to a protein in the stomach is degredation. before it can be broken up into smaller pieces, the protein must be accessible to the peptidase enzymes. i hope this helps someone understand BDC's and YJ's responses. if anyone wants to know more, don't hesitate to contact me, email is probably the best way.
cheers, pete
as for protein degradation don't worry, we DO NOT digest whole proteins. this is why all the extra growth fractions in whey isolate don't help any more than whey concentrate. our intestines absorb only tripeptides (3 amino acids attached to each other) or smaller. proteins are much larger 100's or even 1000's of amino acids long. degredation simply means that the shape of the protein is altered and it will not be able to function as it should. the first thing that happens to a protein in the stomach is degredation. before it can be broken up into smaller pieces, the protein must be accessible to the peptidase enzymes. i hope this helps someone understand BDC's and YJ's responses. if anyone wants to know more, don't hesitate to contact me, email is probably the best way.
cheers, pete
weissmuller
New member
Hey everyone I've just been browsing through this forum and must say its great. Just had something I wanted to add.
There was the issue of carbs hurting nightime GH release. From my understanding carbs only effect the metabolic pathway for GH and not the nueral pathway which is responsible for the large GH release during sleep. IMO the carbs and insulin they cause can be quite benefical at this time since they can help ward of catabolism and could possibly be synergenic with growth hormone, of course thats my own thought and not fact, any thoughts on this?
There was the issue of carbs hurting nightime GH release. From my understanding carbs only effect the metabolic pathway for GH and not the nueral pathway which is responsible for the large GH release during sleep. IMO the carbs and insulin they cause can be quite benefical at this time since they can help ward of catabolism and could possibly be synergenic with growth hormone, of course thats my own thought and not fact, any thoughts on this?
crazypete
Member
weissmuller said:
howdy, not sure what you mean by metabolic and neural pathways, but one should not worry about impeding GH release unless you take in massive amounts of glucose (sugar) before bed or during the night. A high glucose dose will impare GH release for about two hours after which an excessive amount of GH is released, then it normalizes after 4 hrs. Glucose can affect the normal circadian (daily cycle) release of GH. Other negative feedback mechanisms are somatostatin, GH itself, and IGF-1. Positive feedback is from Sleep, amino acids (from protein), exercise, stress, amino acid supplements (arginine, glutamine, etc.), phosphatidyl serine, and so on.
you are correct in saying that insulin increases GH. Here's how: insulin causes nutrients from the blood to be taken up by cells (muscle, adipose, etc.). This leads to low blood sugar (low glucose). Low glucose stimulates GH production, ergo GH release. As you can see it is quite an elegant, yet simple control system. However, other systems exist to, so we have to be careful. For example, the insulin release due to excessive carb ingestion would lead to glucose going into adipose cells (fat) as well. As you can see outside of post training meals, we would be better off eating many small, well balanced meals so as to lessen the negative impacts on all hormonal systems. If you give your body proper training, nutrition and rest, it will respond optimally. If you do not, the responses will be weaker
hope this helps, pete
weissmuller
New member
By neural and metabolic pathways I was refuring to the controls of the hypothalamus on secretion of GHRH which causes the sectretion of GH in the anterior pituitary(so many big words probally mispelled them all).
The metabolic pathway is effected by dietary consumption and carbs can impede this pathway. But this is a minor pathway and is only of significan duing the day.
The nueral pathway is caused by the brain and is repsonsible for the nightime GH spike which is when the majority of daily GH is realised. This pathway is not affected by carbs. This pathway is affected by stress and such but nightime meal cannot prevent this GH spike. So basically eat what you need to grow throughout the night. Personally I am a big fan of milk and peanuts.
The metabolic pathway is effected by dietary consumption and carbs can impede this pathway. But this is a minor pathway and is only of significan duing the day.
The nueral pathway is caused by the brain and is repsonsible for the nightime GH spike which is when the majority of daily GH is realised. This pathway is not affected by carbs. This pathway is affected by stress and such but nightime meal cannot prevent this GH spike. So basically eat what you need to grow throughout the night. Personally I am a big fan of milk and peanuts.
crazypete
Member
hey weiss, i know exactly what you are taking about. last semester i had a whole course on endocrinology. however, according to all the material i have in front of me at the moment (10+ texts, some only on the endocrine system) all of the things that affect the release of GH act on the Hypothalamus effecting GHRH release. if you read my previous post closely (first two lines) you will see that we agree, however, a MASSIVE glucose intake can and will disrupt secretion, but we don't have to worry about this.
peanuts and milk eh? good call, personally i'm partial to cottage cheese, but then again the stuff here in canada is much better than the stuff you guys got. i was in the US two months ago, could barely choke the stuff down. maybe i can set up an import-export. i send good cottage cheese, you guys send prohormones.
yeah right, cheers, pete
peanuts and milk eh? good call, personally i'm partial to cottage cheese, but then again the stuff here in canada is much better than the stuff you guys got. i was in the US two months ago, could barely choke the stuff down. maybe i can set up an import-export. i send good cottage cheese, you guys send prohormones.
yeah right, cheers, pete
weissmuller
New member
Yeah I get what your saying about the sum factors on the Hypothalamus being the key and it would probally be to hard to know exactly what each situtation does. I also agree its not even incredibly important since the carbs would only be in the body for some time.
That import idea sounds pretty decent. US dairy products are a few steps away from garbage. The cottage cheese I've tried(tried many) was a few steps away from unedible. Probally over processing and other junk that goes on in this country can be to blame. It would make a whole new black market if we set something like that up. Theres definatley a demand on either side.
crazypete
Member
hey weiss, like you said, the night-time release of GH is by far the strongest component at that time and is hard to change (except for poor diet, lack of quality sleep- 7-9 hrs the same time every night).
i think that you would encounter a lot more resistance from the dairy farmers than i would from canada customs (ph's are illegal - classified as steroids here) and i doubt that chemicals are responsible for taste. more likely the way they make it. you might want to try some smaller, perhaps even natural brands which have been around for a long time and sometimes, they are a better price too.
PS watch out the dairy farmers have a powerful lobby
PPS and watch out for the hormones they put in cows because it can easily get into the milk and the high absorption.... sorry just kidding if so we'd all be drinking milk by the gallon
if anyone missed the heavy sarcasm in the last comment please do everyone a favor and jump off a really big building, cheers, pete
i think that you would encounter a lot more resistance from the dairy farmers than i would from canada customs (ph's are illegal - classified as steroids here) and i doubt that chemicals are responsible for taste. more likely the way they make it. you might want to try some smaller, perhaps even natural brands which have been around for a long time and sometimes, they are a better price too.
PS watch out the dairy farmers have a powerful lobby
PPS and watch out for the hormones they put in cows because it can easily get into the milk and the high absorption.... sorry just kidding if so we'd all be drinking milk by the gallon
if anyone missed the heavy sarcasm in the last comment please do everyone a favor and jump off a really big building, cheers, pete
Jay Mc
Member
I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to reiterate a point chemo made. There were several people concerned about denaturing egg protein and the like. First, all proteins have 3 levels of structure (primary through tertiary). Primary is just the order of the amino acids linked in a straight chain. Secondary is interactions of amino acids near eachother in the chain (like helix, beta pleated sheet, etc.) through hydrogen and disulfide bonds. Tertiary structure involves amino acids far apart on the chain interacting together making the protein "tangle up" if you will (ie, luecine zipper, zinc finger). There is also a quaternary level of structure which involves the interaction of different subunits but not all proteins have quaternary structure (an important one that does is hemoglobin, heme, alpha-, beta-globin subunits).
Now that I've rambled about stuff no one cares about I'll get to the point. A protein is defined by its primary structure. Thats it. The upper orders of structure only involve activity. The point is, many things denature proteins: heat, uv light, and, gasp, high or LOW pH (Wow, your stomach has a pH of about 2. Thats low!) environments, but as long as the amino acids are in the same order, albumin in a straight chain or albumin wound in a tight ball is still albumin.
The points: 1) it doesn't matter if you denature the protein in the microwave because every time you cook anything you are denaturing protein. Thats why eggs go from liquid to solid. The albumin is denatured. 2) Even if you didn't denature the protein by cooking, it would get denatured in your stomach. And after that it gets chopped into individual amino acids by enzymes like pepsin (which ironically are proteins that are designed in such a way as to not be sensitive to the acid environment of the stomach).
So, nuke the eggs it doesn't matter. You are gonna denature the protein and cut it up anyway!
J
Now that I've rambled about stuff no one cares about I'll get to the point. A protein is defined by its primary structure. Thats it. The upper orders of structure only involve activity. The point is, many things denature proteins: heat, uv light, and, gasp, high or LOW pH (Wow, your stomach has a pH of about 2. Thats low!) environments, but as long as the amino acids are in the same order, albumin in a straight chain or albumin wound in a tight ball is still albumin.
The points: 1) it doesn't matter if you denature the protein in the microwave because every time you cook anything you are denaturing protein. Thats why eggs go from liquid to solid. The albumin is denatured. 2) Even if you didn't denature the protein by cooking, it would get denatured in your stomach. And after that it gets chopped into individual amino acids by enzymes like pepsin (which ironically are proteins that are designed in such a way as to not be sensitive to the acid environment of the stomach).
So, nuke the eggs it doesn't matter. You are gonna denature the protein and cut it up anyway!
J
blueice
New member
I enjoy a Tarragon-crusted Tuna with Horseradish and Lime sauce
100g fresh wholemeal breadcrumbs
10g fresh Tarragon, finely chopped
1 egg beaten
black pepper
4 tuna fillets, each about 115 g
100 g horseradish sauce
200 g low-fat Greek yogurt
grated zest of 1 lime
Heat oven to 180 C
Mix the breadcrumbs with tarragon and spread on plate
Pour beaten egg into a shallow dish and season it with pepper
Dip each tuna fillet in egg then breadcrumbs, coating it both sides.Place on a greased baking sheet and bake in oven for 20 minutes until brown and crisp
Meanwhile, mix the horseradish and yogurt together and stir in the lime zest. Serve with tuna fillets.
100g fresh wholemeal breadcrumbs
10g fresh Tarragon, finely chopped
1 egg beaten
black pepper
4 tuna fillets, each about 115 g
100 g horseradish sauce
200 g low-fat Greek yogurt
grated zest of 1 lime
Heat oven to 180 C
Mix the breadcrumbs with tarragon and spread on plate
Pour beaten egg into a shallow dish and season it with pepper
Dip each tuna fillet in egg then breadcrumbs, coating it both sides.Place on a greased baking sheet and bake in oven for 20 minutes until brown and crisp
Meanwhile, mix the horseradish and yogurt together and stir in the lime zest. Serve with tuna fillets.
howwedo107
Well-known member
Sugar free jello and whipped cream