NHE and Superdrol

Invincible

New member
Yes, this is another Superdrol post but I'm adding a twist with regards to diet.

I've studied up on Superdrol for a while now and have found tons of conflicting and confusing advice. Some people seems to regard it casually and take it alone. Others treat it extremely seriously and treat it like a cycle of a full-blown illegal AAS. I've decided to take a middle approach. I'm doing a slight pre-load, a four week cycle (10/20/20/20) and a four week PCT. Basically, my cycle is planned based on a post at BB.com under the "Superdrol Writeup" thread in supplements.

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From what I've read I'm not too worried about sides and negative effects. I'm cautious, but optimistic. I keep a healthy lifestyle and have had a minimum of health problems. I train every other day, which means my weeks alternate between training 3 days and 4. I'm 21, 6'2'', and currently weigh 180 lbs. possibly around 12-15% bodyfat.

I'm starting next week, and it's going to look like this:

Pre-load
Milk Thistle for one week, 1000mg daily

Cycle
Superdrol, 10/20/20/20
Milk Thistle, same as above (Liver)
Hawthorne Berry (BP)
ZMA, 3 caps daily
Multivitamin

I'm also thinking about Saw Palmetto for the prostate

PCT
Milk Thistle, same as above
Nolvadex, 600/600/300/300 mg
R-XT, 3,3,2,2

Pretty standard, and I'm not really looking for advice on that unless there's something you absolutely have to tell me.

Here's where it gets complicated. I early on decided to use as my diet the Natural Hormonal Enhancement Bodybuilder's Plan. If you're not familiar with Natural Hormonal Enhancement by Rob Faigin, it's a diet book that focuses less on calories and such and much more on the hormonal effects of macronutrients. It's a little extreme, and as such I've gotten a lot of flack from my peers about it. Basically it's an all protien and fat diet except for 2 nights a week, when you're to "carb-load." Basically have at least 200 grams of (good) carbs over 1 or 2 meals. Yes, it sounds like BS, but the author does a great job of justifying it's benefits (using fat as energy rather than carbs and not storing fat) in 300+ pages with literally hundreds and hundreds of references.

My plan was to eat mostly protein foods, chicken, beef, fish, eggs, cheese, etc, tons of vegetables (which is recommended by the plan) and supplement my fat intake with EFA caps. Then, 2 nights a week, I'd pig out on pasta, potatoes, bread, some sugary stuff, etc.

I have very little practical experience with the plan, but when I was on it, I found it beneficial.

Thing is, it's not really written for people who are altering their hormones unnatturally. And I'm reading a lot about the importance of carbs during cycles, especially for BP. Is my plan whacked out? Is there anyone out there with knowledge of NHE who can help me?
 
No clue about this NHE.
I assumed you misspelled NHA - Non Hormonal Anabolic.

Anyway, log if you plan to use this odd sounding diet plan with SD.
 
I've read this book and I am familiar with the NHE diet. Although, for myself, I am not a proponent of it. From my experience with SD if i did not take in adequate carbs I felt very lethargic. And actually had to increase my carb intake somewhat.
 
SD with minimal carbs is a recipe for hypogylcemia. I would not recommend this diet. Infact, do the opposite, eat a ton of carbs. You will get crazy glycogen loading from SD, which can help with the gains that can be made. If you choose to go with this diet, make sure to carry some sugar packets around with you and read up on the symptoms of hypoglycemia so you can catch it before its to late.
 
First, what are your goals?

Second, what aspire said above is good advice. Hypoglycemia would be a concern.

And since one of the most anabolic aspects of superdrol is it's glycogen storing properties, you'd be sacrificing that almost completely.

Third, although NHE works great for many, Rob Faigin's hundreds upon hundreds of references are mostly models that don't apply to human application, (like circadian GH release in sheep, stuff like that), and they are all repeated again and again. Instead of using a notation more than once to cite the same reference, he lists it as a new notation. Most references are used 3 times or more.

I think the best part about NHE, is the book layout for marketing purposes. It's very convincing of being a be-all, end-all solution.
 
This is exactly the sort of stuff I'm looking for. Thank you all for responding quickly.

I was expecting a lot of "I don't trust the diet" with little in the way of specifics, but the glycogen thing hit the bullseye as to why NHE probably isn't right for SD.

SD with minimal carbs is a recipe for hypogylcemia. I would not recommend this diet. Infact, do the opposite, eat a ton of carbs. You will get crazy glycogen loading from SD, which can help with the gains that can be made. If you choose to go with this diet, make sure to carry some sugar packets around with you and read up on the symptoms of hypoglycemia so you can catch it before its to late.
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This is my biggest concern right now. Keep in mind the diet isn't "minimal" carbs, but carb cycling with the purpose of replenishing glycogen stores everyonce in a while. Of course, the diet was concieved with a non-superdrol user in mind. From what you say, a lot more glycogen is loaded, which means even the carb load probably isn't enough. Probably the best bet would then be to re-introduce carbs to regular to my regular eating patterns. Is there some kind of minimum, or should I just go back to my old ways of oats and rice up the wazoo?

Third, although NHE works great for many, Rob Faigin's hundreds upon hundreds of references are mostly models that don't apply to human application, (like circadian GH release in sheep, stuff like that), and they are all repeated again and again. Instead of using a notation more than once to cite the same reference, he lists it as a new notation. Most references are used 3 times or more.

I think the best part about NHE, is the book layout for marketing purposes. It's very convincing of being a be-all, end-all solution.
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I'm sooo glad to find some real criticism of NHE. While looking, I've found only praise or nothing at all. What you've told me hasn't turned me off to the book entirely, and I probably will go right back to it when I'm done with SD, I probalby won't go along with it while on SD.

My goal is to gain as much lean mass as possible, and hopefully shed a few percentages of fat.

So then the question is, now that I know I've been preparing wrong, what's a good carb strategy for me and SD?
 
Simply put, carbs + SD = good. Infact if you begin to feel like crap and lethargic eat more carbs. Take it from someone who has run SD twice and had a pleasent run and a very unpleasent run. The trick is a constant steady stream of carbs. I would wake up and eat some white bread (fast acting) with peanut butter or something and then have some whole wheat bageals (slow acting). This is a good morning strategy then eat low GI carbs through out the day to keep up energy levels. If you begin to feel bad (read: tried and/or dizzy), esspically around training time, drink some gatorate or another high sugar drink and you will feel fine in minutes. Carbs really will make the difference between a fun run of SD and a miserable one.

If you need a good macronutrient ratio for SD I recommend 35/45/20 personally. Might wish to try 40/45/15 as well. Some may argue, but thats how I had my "good" run of SD.

EDIT: I would stick to either gaining weight or losing weight. Trying to do both at the same time with SD will stall your progress alot and will probably put you right back where you started. IMHO SD is best for bulking, so eat up, keep the calories high during PCT and afterwards shed the little bit of extra bodyfat that you MIGHT gain to show off the newly built and cemented pounds of muscle.
 
aspire210 said:
SD with minimal carbs is a recipe for hypogylcemia.
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Yep. I can attest to that. I got food poisoning mid-SD cycle...a thousand trips to the bathroom. Obviously I did not feel like eating or drinking anything for 32 hours. BOOM I thought I was going to die...Cold sweats...Rapid heart rate...Dizziness...Headache

At the time I didn't realize what was causing these symptoms. It wasn't until I drank a sugar-filled soda that I began to feel better. Hypoglycemia for sure.

So eat your damn carbs or leave SD the f*ck alone.
 
meowmeow said:
So eat your damn carbs or leave SD the f*ck alone.
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Well put.

I feel like an ignoramus. Now I have to go out to the grocery store and get a hell of a lot more carbs than I thought I'd be needing over the next month.

Thanks everybody.
 
Don't forget when you go into PCT to keep your carbs up as SD tends to linger for a week or so, plus you don't want to shock your body at all during PCT and going back to your other diet might cause such a shock! Once your done with your PCT protocol, then feel free to go back on NHE....You might find better responses from people who have tried Twin Peaks Carb Cycling than NHE, look into it.
 
Invincible said:
So then the question is, now that I know I've been preparing wrong, what's a good carb strategy for me and SD?
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Under normal circumstances, 100g of carbohydrates will keep you well out of ketosis and feeling good. With superdrol, you'll need more. How much more? I'm not sure. It's individual. It will come down to how you feel, meal timing, training, calorie level, etc.

I'd say start between 150g-200g carbs, try to keep them mostly low GI, and adjust from there. You won't really "need" more than that because more carbs does not necessarily mean better growth, but at that level you should avoid hypoglycemia unless you are very sensitive.

NHE works surprisingly well, despite the arguments made by many people. And best of all, it's not terribly difficult to adhere to, (compared to something like UD2, which takes total devotion). NHE is better suited for dieting either naturally, or with something more straight-forward, like a test only cycle.
 
i may be wrong, but i heard its better to taper the rxt 4/3/2/1 to prevent bad estro rebound...there is a couple threads on it
 
I was just thinking about that....I see many using ATD products in a pyramid fashion while they do a reverse pyramid of the NOLVA, but I thought it would be bad to end at a higher dose of an AI, no matter which one it is. That is why for my last cycle and the one I will do now, I will dose at 100, 75, 50, 10, instead of a reverse of that pattern and normal Nolva dosing protocols.
 
Gentlemen,

I'm back after almost a month and a half, starting my PCT today, and I have to say the cycle was a good experience overall, even though I had some road bumps along the way.

I started Superdrol on Dec. 4th, weighing around 180 pounds, and trying my best to follow the diet advice you guys gave me. I continued for a little less than a week, until I fell ill. From what, I wasn't sure, but I spent night feeling I could vomit at any moment and a day in bed with little energy or appetite. I was worried it was the hypoglycemia I had been warned about, but I did what was suggested if that popped up and it didn't seem to make the symptoms any better. This was a disappointment because the previous day I had weighed myself for the first time and saw that in less than a week I'd shot up to about 188 or so.

I immediately stopped SD and as the days progressed I got my energy back but started getting stomach and head aches. This period of rest turned out to be beneficial though, as I was starting finals, and I didn't think I would have been able to study and keep up a SD training-rest-nutrition program at the same time. Once finals were over, I was encouraged because I felt better, somehow I had maintained the weight I gained in the first week, and I got kickass grades (A,A,A-,B+,B; not bad for a physics-EE student), so I decided to start over the cycle from the beginning. By the end of the second week I was taking 2 pills a day, over 190 and feeling great. For the last week, I decided I had just enough SD left to increase the dosage to 3 pills/day.

The cycle ended poorly because I ended up catching a cold in the last few days (I always seem to get sick during important parts of my life, and when I'm sick I feel as though I can't accomplish ANYTHING). But I ended up a good 20 pounds heavier. Granted, I feel more of that increase is fat than should have been, as my diet was less than pure, but this is the heaviest and biggest I've ever been, so I'm pleased and encouraged. I've particularily gotten a lot of size into my shoulders and neck. Last week I had to wear a dress shirt and it felt like it was choking me all day, and all the comments I'm recieving refer to me appearing broader. My roommate's younger sister (too young for me) used to have a crush on me, but does no longer, because she doesn't like buff guys.

Still, I feel I've put on too much fat, and I experienced almost no increase in strength. I don't really intend on cycling again. I just did it the one time as sort of a boost in the forward direction, and it was freaking aggrivating, having to keep up with the diet and all (not to mention the constant horniness and no one at the moment to help alleviate it :( ). Once I graduate I intent to get into the real stuff, but for now, I'm going to try and put on as much naturally as possible. Thanks to everyone for you input!
 
Invincible said:
I just did it the one time as sort of a boost in the forward direction, and it was freaking aggrivating, having to keep up with the diet and all (not to mention the constant horniness and no one at the moment to help alleviate it :( ). Once I graduate I intent to get into the real stuff, but for now, I'm going to try and put on as much naturally as possible. Thanks to everyone for you input!
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I have heard that once someone has taken steroids it is alot harder to gain mass naturally without a testosterone inhancing drug....
Is there any truth to this?
 
I am from the Chi, and i represent all the time, matter a fact they called me Chi-town in college and I call it Chi-town, or the Go, Southside till I die, so i don't know what you mean per se. But anyway, looks like your sd cycle was good, but Phera wolud have done you better if putting on mass. live and learn
 
Also, Do you guys change your workout routine while on superdrol
or any other steroid for that matter
ie.You workout more days than you normaly would in a week.
 
You can still overtrain while on hormones, but you can add some volume. Not too much though.

Remember, overtraining is bad and is certainly possible. Hormones aren't an excuse to workout 4 hours a day.
 
gogo said:
Also, Do you guys change your workout routine while on superdrol
or any other steroid for that matter
ie.You workout more days than you normaly would in a week.
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Check out this post...
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its for bulking while "on"
 
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