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Swiftycus

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I like to know all aspects of things to pretty high details in general and even more so when it comes to messing with my natural makeups.

Looking for guidance as a beginner.

Been training for 3 years past obese child and adults lost 40kg got shredded in the first year. I used Yohimbine HCL near the end.

202127
202128


Spent the from 2017 to 2020 solid training but now looking for that extra boost
here's my current condition at 86kg
202129



Now you know I'm not just jumping on it for the sake of it hahaha.

What would be a good starting point for somebody like me who is looking to get that classic look by the time I'm 40 (just turned 32)
202130


Thanks
 
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Whisky

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I like to know all aspects of things to pretty high details in general and even more so when it comes to messing with my natural makeups.

Looking for guidance as a beginner.

Been training for 3 years past obese child and adults lost 40kg got shredded in the first year. I used Yohimbine HCL near the end.

View attachment 202127View attachment 202128

Spent the from 2017 to 2020 solid training but now looking for that extra boost
here's my current condition at 86kg
View attachment 202129


Now you know I'm not just jumping on it for the sake of it hahaha.

What would be a good starting point for somebody like me who is looking to get that classic look by the time I'm 40 (just turned 32)
View attachment 202130

Thanks
First up congrats on the weight loss brother. Great achievement. You’ve obviously worked hard and nailed down a solid nutritional and training foundation. Plus it appears you’ve swerved any major issue with loose skin.

in terms of what you should use.....

Your on a steroids page so are we assuming you’re considering that jump to that route?

if so then there’s some things to consider.

imo you need to see this as a one way street. Not many people do one cycle and stop (and definitely not to achieve the sort of physique you’re suggesting). Ultimately you’ll be hastening your path to life long trt (if you want to feel decent and lead a good life anyway). There’s outliers of course, guys who blast gear for years, don’t pct properly and recover fine but theres guys who do one cycle and end up on trt. Generally though, you’ll hasten the decline at which your natural testosterone gets back to a level which gives you a good quality of life. Something to be aware of.

linked to point above, get bloods before a needle goes anywhere near you. Get a comprehensive panel so you have a baseline, otherwise you’ll never know what impact you’re having on your natural levels. You only get one chance to do that.

depending on your genetics, what you can achieve, regardless of how much gear you take, is limited. The top bodybuilders would look better and bigger than 99.9% of all guys without any gear at all due to genetics, other guys with terrible genetics can take loads of gear and look like an average gym goer. Genetics play a far bigger role in what you’ll achieve than drugs will, you may never achieve that look you want but you will achieve more than you can naturally. Again just be aware of this.

more important than what compounds you take are the supports and pct - get these first. All of us on AM accept what we do isn’t ‘healthy’ but all promote trying to mitigate the health risks as much as possible. Proper supplementation for the liver, kidneys and blood pressure is important.

you’ll see people who ‘cycle and pct’ or people who blast and cruise/trt. Basically if you cycle and pct you are suppressing your natural hormone production on cycle but trying to recover it using pct. You need decent amounts of time (over 3 months) between cycles. Where people cruise or are on trt they just drop back to a ‘normal (ish)’ dose of testosterone between ‘blasts’. This allows for more gains to be maintained between cycles/blasts (and recovering your natural hormones sometimes leaves you feeling rubbish for a bit, not an issue with cruise/trt)...... but it’s basically saying your not ever expecting to have naturally produced testosterone again (a life long commitment).

just some stuff to consider

have you had kids? do you want more kids? (If so stay away from all of it)

if you decide you want to go down this path then research testosterone - that as a solo compound is the standard first cycle recommendation.

i know the above makes it sound like I’m trying to put you off a bit but it’s really just a ‘make sure it’s what you want’ post.

personally I love being on gear. I blast and cruise now. Started cycles when i was 36 (nearly 40 more) and I’m slowly getting to a physique I’m happy with (like you I lost a lot of weight in my early 30s - about 63kgs). My genetics aren’t great, I look like I train and I’m stronger than the average gym bro but I’m miles off some of these guys on here. For me though it’s a physique I never thought is have and I feel like I’m 21 again - it’s really enjoyable if you come into it willing to accept the negatives. That’s not a trade off that’s right for everyone.

good luck bro
 
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Marne40

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^^^ all of that. Well done (as usual @Whisky ), there isn’t much else to add.
Great job getting fit man, you already look great! Your head is in the right place if you can pull that off naturally, so definitely stick with it.
 
KvanH

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5 ⭐ post @Whisky

OP you could search/investigate things like pct (=post cycle therapy), serm (Nolvadex/Tamoxifen, Clomid), hcg, AI (=Aromatase Inhibitor), cycle support (for kidneys, blood pressure, liver, cholesterol, prostate), gynecomastia for starters to get familiar with some details of this 'game'. And when something seems unclear, ask away. Welcome to the board = )
 

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@Whisky thank you for that very well weel explained response, I wil look into pcp/risk mitigation first then go from there, in reagrds to how much you keep fro the 3 months on is there a larege ammount you lose if going the PCT route, I take it your just trying to hold onto as much of the gains as possible.
 
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KvanH

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@Whisky thank you for that very well weel explained response, I wil look into pcp/risk mitigation first then go from there, in reagrds to how much you keep fro the 3 months on is there a larege ammount you lose if going the PCP route, I take it your just trying to hold onto as much of the gains as possible.
You'll lose everything if you go the PCP route. Even your house..

Just joking as you mispelled PCT = )

For your first cycle you should be able to keep most if not all the lean muscle made, if all goes well and not going crazy on gear and cycle lenght. Weight will come down some very likely with the water weight.
 
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Swiftycus

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@KvanH
That was my main concern just weighing up risk to reward, I will be training 6 days a week using a solid program so hoping for good results, I will prbably check my bloodwork as @Whisky suggests to see what my test levels are like anyway as I have always had slight concerns they might be lower than the norm due to depression, sleep issues, mood etc
 
Whisky

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@Whisky thank you for that very well weel explained response, I wil look into pcp/risk mitigation first then go from there, in reagrds to how much you keep fro the 3 months on is there a larege ammount you lose if going the PCT route, I take it your just trying to hold onto as much of the gains as possible.
not a problem at all my friend.

its impossible to say how much you keep if doing a cycle and pct as this varies depending on a number of factors, mainly how far past your natural genetic potential the gear takes you, how well/quickly you recover and how good your natural hormone levels are.

for example, a 20 year old with good natural test levels who runs a cycle after 1 year of training will likely keep a lot more than a 40 year old who’s test has dropped to low ish levels and who’s been training hard for 10 years (ie the 40 year is probably very close to the amount of lean mass his natural body can sustain, whereas the 20 year would have gained that mass naturally with a few years of training and the 20 year old has the better hormone levels to hold onto more muscle).

of course when we cruise/trt we don’t have the recovery period (where your hormones are all over the place and you los some gains) and we use a dose that provides a higher ‘normal’ level of test than our body would produce naturally (so we keep more).

As @KvanH said, you’ll likely keep more off the back of your first cycle than future cycles, mainly because your first cycle should be the one where you make the gains that could have come naturally. He also makes a good point, the scale weight will drop as additional water you hold drops off.

another thing to bear in mind though is the body can only build lean mass at a certain rate even with drugs (again it varies a bit depending on genetics but there is a limit). 0.5lb a week of actual lean contractile tissue built would be a great result for example.

people gain more weight than that but obviously fat and water plays a big part.

if I was to do a first cycle with pct again (knowing what I know now) I’d do the following (this isn’t me saying you should do this - it’s me saying that in my opinion it’s worth you looking into this if you decide you want to go down this path.

week 1-8 400mg test cyp (2x200mg pins per week)

Week 9-12 400 mg test prop (4x100mg pin per week)

week 14-18 clomid 50/50/50/25/25 or nolva 20/20/20/10/10

aromasin (if needed) at 12.5mg (only dosed when gyno sides appear

supplements throughout
Vit k2
Astragalus
Red yeast rice (with mon K - ie not from USA)
Fish oil
Supergreens
Decent multi vit

have a BP cuff monitor on hand and take daily BP readings

those supplements are really just the basics and there are loads more (I take over 40 every day). Search posts by hyde on here - he’s a legend on supplementation for health whilst on gear.

note - if I was using any orals I would have NAC and/or TUDCA in my basics list.
 

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