New Orleans in Anarchy

mtruther said:
This was primarily a state/local failure, particularly a local failure. New Orleans has known for some time that it's city could disappear in a heartbeat. When I toured the city, even our tour guide even made that very fact known. What's pathetic is that the mayor never even began to evacuate the city until President Bush actually called him and urged him to do so. I'm sorry, as a mayor, you need to know what's going on, and you need to take responsibility for your city, ESPECIALLY when it's about to go underwater. You shouldn't need the President of the United States to tell you that it's time to leave. You need to be the man in charge.

Have you all seen the picture of the city school buses underwater? There are literally just dozens of school buses lined up, and they very easily could have been used to evacuate the city with just an ounce of local planning. It never happened.

It's all hindsight now, though.

As for not having the money to get out, that's a load of rubbish. New Orleans has the lowest rate of car ownership in the country, even lower than NYC. If there is one thing these people knew, it was public transportation, and that ain't expensive.

I'm simply not going to accept the no money excuse. It's just that: an excuse for stupidity (and dare I say in some cases) a lie to hide the fact that these subhumans intended on playing while the cats (or cops) were away. Maybe blame it on a lack of education, but really, a lack of money? They could have at least gone to the Superdome.
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While I certainly do believe many of the people that could have left did not, there are many people that could not leave, and money is one of the reasons. I am unaware of any public transportation in Louisiana (in N.O. in particular) that takes people anywhere they want to go. In order for these people to be evacuated in time, there would have had to been a very good plan in place and more resources than the city can provide on its own. In addition, the evacuation would have to have started long before a truly accurate prediction of landfall could have been made. Much smaller evacuations have been very difficult in the past, so a full evacuation would not have worked so easily.

The failures of the evacuation and everything else to follow are on the heads of many people, and many agencies. This scenario was presented as fact decades ago. No amount of planning could have led to a perfect evacuation or even preventing the inevitable, but it certainly could have saved 1000's of lives. This requires planning for, and paying for something that in all likelihood would not be seen during any administrator's time in office. Why bother? They wouldn't benefit from it, and they wouldn't get the blame for it if disaster struck. Whomever is in office at the time will get the largest pile of **** from the fan. Granted, Bush is still an idiot and has already stuck his foot is mouth when saying nobody anticipated the levee breaks..... (except all the people that did.. but that doesn't count). Several people have lied so much already trying to cover their asses, but the facts are undenieable.

Even if people could get out in time, where does everyone go? Where do people that can barely afford low-income housing go? So they take the free, yet non-existent, public transportation to .. where? Even now all of the shelters in the state cann't support the influx of refugees. Would Houston and the other cities that have stepped up done so before hand? .. going on only the possibility that N.O. would be flooded? They reacted to the disaster, not the anticipation of, or the possibility of the disaster.

Is it stupidity that the largest city in the state and all of its inhabitants can't be so easily moved into much smaller communities with fewer resources?

Anybody that can look at this and come up with easy answers and solutions or just easy blame is full of ****. It involves so many issues, and so many people in can not be that easy. It is an embarrassment to all, on many levels and one can only hope it will never happen again.. anywhere. It will most likely blow over in time and your tax dollars will go back to fighting terrorism and low gas prices.

New Orleans has for many years been on the top or close to it in the race for murder capital of the US. The violence that everyone is outraged over has always been there, it is not a result of the tragedy just amplified somewhat. People riot and loot over sports' teams winning a championship. It is not excusable by any means, but these people represent themselves only and are found in every large city and around the world. Yes there are hundreds of people like this in NO, and these people are usually in the same economic class as the rest of the people that stayed behind. Does this give anyone the right to say the rest of the innocent people that were stuck or died deserved to die because they could not leave?


Everything could have and should have been done better, but the majority of the same problems would still be occuring if only on a smaller scale.

Even now with much more help here, the planning and communication of involved groups is pretty bad. I had just heard from a friend (e.r. nurse) that had volunteered with a large group of doctors etc to assist in treating supposedly 100's -1000's of people that were supposed to be transported into B.R. This impressive group of volunteers basically spent an entire day away from their jobs waiting on people to show up that never did. a miscommunication had them there doing nothing and the patients arrived hours later when the much smaller less experienced night group was there later in the evening. Makes you wonder how many people are still dying over such problems.

I have mixed emotions on much of what is going on, but with the morgue for the dead from N.O. now located less than a mile from my house its hard to ignore the human side of it.

TSC
 
:goodpost:

{Thank You and you did it without all the negative talk}


The finger pointing and negative talk need to be eliminated. I think it's time for healing, donating and to move on and rebuild. I felt so good last week when I volunteered and packed food and other items to be sent to the victims. It just felt damn good and I will be doing it this weekend too and donating money because it's the right thing to do. :)

I think the United States was push to reality, to find out that we are still not ready to handle a large catastrophe. It has been four years since 9/11 and we are still not prepare for the unknown. What this catastrophe says about our rescue capabilities four years after 9/11?????

They say it might be over 10,000 people dead and some of you people want to bad mouth the dead and you don't even know their personal story of why they stayed in NO. {I shake my head}

Have you guys notice the weather around the world? I think the weather is getting worst. I don't agree with the cycle theory that was mention in this forum and I do think it's in line with the global warming theory. I was reading a Time magazine article last year and the scientist brought up some good points and it does coincide with today's weather events. Also, if you are religious...don't the bible mention about different catastrophe hitting the earth, before judgment day? {Just a thought}

Whoa, did you guys read that the heating gas might be 73% higher this year because of Hurricane Katrina?






tsc said:
While I certainly do believe many of the people that could have left did not, there are many people that could not leave, and money is one of the reasons. I am unaware of any public transportation in Louisiana (in N.O. in particular) that takes people anywhere they want to go. In order for these people to be evacuated in time, there would have had to been a very good plan in place and more resources than the city can provide on its own. In addition, the evacuation would have to have started long before a truly accurate prediction of landfall could have been made. Much smaller evacuations have been very difficult in the past, so a full evacuation would not have worked so easily.

The failures of the evacuation and everything else to follow are on the heads of many people, and many agencies. This scenario was presented as fact decades ago. No amount of planning could have led to a perfect evacuation or even preventing the inevitable, but it certainly could have saved 1000's of lives. This requires planning for, and paying for something that in all likelihood would not be seen during any administrator's time in office. Why bother? They wouldn't benefit from it, and they wouldn't get the blame for it if disaster struck. Whomever is in office at the time will get the largest pile of **** from the fan. Granted, Bush is still an idiot and has already stuck his foot is mouth when saying nobody anticipated the levee breaks..... (except all the people that did.. but that doesn't count). Several people have lied so much already trying to cover their asses, but the facts are undenieable.

Even if people could get out in time, where does everyone go? Where do people that can barely afford low-income housing go? So they take the free, yet non-existent, public transportation to .. where? Even now all of the shelters in the state cann't support the influx of refugees. Would Houston and the other cities that have stepped up done so before hand? .. going on only the possibility that N.O. would be flooded? They reacted to the disaster, not the anticipation of, or the possibility of the disaster.

Is it stupidity that the largest city in the state and all of its inhabitants can't be so easily moved into much smaller communities with fewer resources?

Anybody that can look at this and come up with easy answers and solutions or just easy blame is full of ****. It involves so many issues, and so many people in can not be that easy. It is an embarrassment to all, on many levels and one can only hope it will never happen again.. anywhere. It will most likely blow over in time and your tax dollars will go back to fighting terrorism and low gas prices.

New Orleans has for many years been on the top or close to it in the race for murder capital of the US. The violence that everyone is outraged over has always been there, it is not a result of the tragedy just amplified somewhat. People riot and loot over sports' teams winning a championship. It is not excusable by any means, but these people represent themselves only and are found in every large city and around the world. Yes there are hundreds of people like this in NO, and these people are usually in the same economic class as the rest of the people that stayed behind. Does this give anyone the right to say the rest of the innocent people that were stuck or died deserved to die because they could not leave?


Everything could have and should have been done better, but the majority of the same problems would still be occuring if only on a smaller scale.

Even now with much more help here, the planning and communication of involved groups is pretty bad. I had just heard from a friend (e.r. nurse) that had volunteered with a large group of doctors etc to assist in treating supposedly 100's -1000's of people that were supposed to be transported into B.R. This impressive group of volunteers basically spent an entire day away from their jobs waiting on people to show up that never did. a miscommunication had them there doing nothing and the patients arrived hours later when the much smaller less experienced night group was there later in the evening. Makes you wonder how many people are still dying over such problems.

I have mixed emotions on much of what is going on, but with the morgue for the dead from N.O. now located less than a mile from my house its hard to ignore the human side of it.

TSC
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Agreed. Especially with the finger-pointing. I can't believe some of the morons using this catastrophe to pull out the race card and further their politcal agenda. I can't believe that kind of scum exists in positions of power in this country :(

I don't believe this is a result of the cycling theory either. However, I do know that amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased exponentially....
 
I'm not even going to touch the race card. :nono:

but

It should had never took four days to bring in the troops, food and water...that a disgrace to all Americans and a slap in the face to those people in "NO". The day after the storm...those troops should had been there and the food and water should had been drop on high and dry ground. The remaining police in "NO" could have clear an area for drop off of the supplies, food and water. There was parts of "NO" that was not touch by the flood and they could have used those areas as a drop off area.

I also would like to add, it was the crackheads, gangmembers, rapist, murders and people who just don't give a **** that was causing all that madness in "NO". When the poor people decided to stay because they didn't have no funds to help them leave...they was dooming themselves to stay with the crackheads, gangmembers, rapist, murders and people who just don't give a ****. Those are the people you guys are reading about in the papers or hearing about in the news. I love "NO" and I can honestly tell you that there is more good law bidding citizens there, than their is the bad we read about. We can find these same crackheads, gangmembers, rapist, murders and people who just don't give a **** in every community...you guys just pray that your community don't surprise you, like the "NO" community surprise the world because those same people that disgust you, might be in your community waiting for a catastrophe to bring them out of the closet. :numbered:



kwyckemynd00 said:
Agreed. Especially with the finger-pointing. I can't believe some of the morons using this catastrophe to pull out the race card and further their politcal agenda. I can't believe that kind of scum exists in positions of power in this country :(

I don't believe this is a result of the cycling theory either. However, I do know that amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased exponentially....
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Well, not getting supplies to the people is mostly the governors problem. Not having them ready is both the governors and the mayors problem--I remember the mayor specifically estimating apprx. 20k people would be in the dome and he left zero food, water, nor place to **** / piss when he said in advance it would be an uncomfortable 2 days minimum!

The Red Cross setup with basic supplies and were ready to go ahead of time, but the governor declined their offer--they wanted to setup in the super dome and they wanted the superdome to become a "last resort" not a magnet for potential refugees. They wanted people out of the city, not at the superdome <-- that was their logic.

The Bush administration also asked permission to declare what was similar to marshall law ahead of time in LA, but the governor rejected that offer too. The Federal gov't's authority does not superceed the State when it comes to sending Guard troops into the Area, they needed the governors permission to operate. Same with FEMA. FEMA cannot act without permission.

Bad communication and bad decisions internally led to the speed problem.

Part of the reasoning they couldn't randomly drop food into the crowd was because of violence. Just like in Afghanistan and other places have demonstrated, crates of food being dropped + hungry citizens in a lawless environment == fighting and death.

The worst part about this is, there was almost a week of advance notice and this still happened. There were practically 150 school buses that could have transferred people who were supposedly too low on money to get out themselves that instead, were just left in the NOUSD's parking lot for buses and roof-high in water as a result.

Main point, private and public entities alike cannot just go marching in to LA and as the days have past, we've found out that while there were some major problems on all levels of the response there were a few roadblocks. I didn't think so at first because I was angry at the response (as seen in my prevoius post), but now it makes more sense that the response to 9/11 (a random event) was much better coordinated and executed than the response to the NO event (also a much larger catastrophe by scale). The governor of NY and the mayor of NY, NY were very much on top of things.
 
in NY on 9-11 people weren't left without food/water and they weren't stranded. Most people walked over the Brooklyn Bridge and went home devastated by the catastrophe, but still had a home, running water, food, and electricity fortunately.

It was a good idea in NYC to have carpool only into the city to avoid traffic, that continued for many months. Most people switched to subway at that point.

IN NO you are talking about a whole city being destroyed, which wasn't the case in NYC. But yes, the governor and mayor could have made some better decisions.
 
Exactly why I noted it was a larger catastrophe than that of 9/11. However, by the time of the event, most people were already located in concentrated areas.

The only reason I bothered to respond to the post with that info was because QUICKRYDE said "I'm not going to touch the race card but it shouldn't have taken that long...". The 'but' left me unconvinced so I outlined some of the circumstances I'm sure many people weren't aware of who haven't kept up with the issue.

Again, I was much more critical of a few people / organizations before more material came out, since then I've altered my opinion.
 
Found this interesting


A Response From a General in the National Guard

Last week, in response to some ad hoc comments in my weekly letter about why it took so long to get soldiers into New Orleans, I received a thoughtful, articulate response from Brigadier General Gregory Zanetti of the New Mexico National Guard. I think you will find the full- unedited letter to be of some interest. Feel free to forward it to your friends, as it reminds us of the commitment and training of our National Guard.

*********

Dear Mr. Mauldin,

I command a Maneuver Enhancement Brigade in the New Mexico Army National Guard.

I understand your frustration and perhaps anger at the seemingly slow response to the disaster in New Orleans and Mississippi.

Let me offer a re-cap from a soldier's perspective.

First, New Mexico Guardsmen arrived in Louisiana on Friday. It's important that you understand that over 80 percent of the New Mexico National Guard has been deployed. Many of our soldiers who are now trying to restore order in the Superdome have already been deployed to Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, or the National Capital Region in D.C. They volunteered for this duty...as they volunteered after 9-11.

Next, please recall the first two days following Katrina there was very little visibility regarding the extent of the damage. We were flying blind with little or no communication. Nonetheless, my Adjutant General put us all on alert (without orders) with the quote, "I am not going to sit around and let Americans die, while we wait for orders." Thus, we started getting ready.

At this exact same time, my brigade was deploying soldiers to Iraq and we were trying to get them out the door with all their equipment, records, medical supplies, etc. That mission could not be put on the back burner. We have Americans dying in Iraq, too.

Then, we found out the news that set us back two days -- we couldn't simply send our remaining soldiers to Louisiana, because there was no command center or means of support. Our soldiers had to take everything they needed to sustain themselves for 10-14 days on the ground. We were told, "If you don't bring it, you don't get it."

The reason for this was a good portion of the Louisiana Guard was also currently deployed the Mid-East, so those who were left behind were short on both personnel and equipment. They had no support to offer any incoming troops.

Mr. Mauldin, sending troops can be done quickly. Creating a supply line -- sending soldiers with Humvees, water, MRE's, Deet, tents, weapons, ammo, commo, updated shots, and everything it takes to support a battalion takes a little planning. Do it wrong and you are more of a hindrance than a help.

The staff and soldiers of the New Mexico National Guard worked around the clock to make a rapid deployment possible. We are a large state. Bringing soldiers from Farmington to Las Cruces (after they have been released by their employers (hopefully), and getting their families squared away) takes time. We got the official go-ahead on Thursday. Friday morning our soldiers were gone. I couldn't be prouder.

Beyond this, we coordinated transportation with our Air National Guard brethren who came through like champs. We do not have air lift capability organic to NM. Therefore, the good men and women of Kansas, Delaware, South Dakota, and Arizona came to our assistance. Yes, our soldiers traveled in KC135 refueling vehicles instead of the preferred C-130s. But the Air Guard got us there and even made multiple runs to make sure we got everything on the ground that we needed. Meanwhile, the "Red Chile Express" is convoying across your great State of Texas at this moment to make sure we can sustain our soldiers for what looks like the long haul.

Right now, I have soldiers defending the National Capital Region as Air Defenders. Many of the soldiers who just got back from Iraq volunteered to go to New Orleans and place their "boots are on the ground" or in the water as the case may be. Plus, we have soldiers in route back to Iraq and Afghanistan. Oh, and Kosovo is next for more of our soldiers before year end. One last thing: my soldiers also have civilian jobs and usually take pay cuts (or risk losing their jobs despite legislations that supposedly protects them) when they deploy.

My guess is that any soldier in any state could write this same basic letter to you. We are all stretched thin.

So, forgive me if I sound a little testy. Still, I felt compelled to defend my soldiers, their admirable performance, and amazing sense of duty. If you knew them as I know them your chest would swell with pride.

Gregory Zanetti
Brigadier General
Commander, 111th Maneuver Enhancement Brigade
 
Hard to call it a race issue now. :)

Areas hardest hit by hurricane:

Jefferson, LA
White 69.8%
Black 22.9%

Orleans, LA
White 28.1%
Black 67.3%

Plaquemines, LA
White 69.8%
Black 23.4%

St. Bernard, LA
White 88.3%
Black 7.6%

St. Tammany, LA
White 87.0%
Black 9.9%

Hancock, Miss.
White 90.2%
Black 6.8%

Harrison, Miss.
White 73.1%
Black 21.1%

Jackson, Miss.
White 75.4%
Black 20.9%

Source: Investors Business Daily, page A4, Wednesday September 7.
 
Mockery of the media. 2nd pic by Tech N9ne @ BBD.
 

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Like I said before the response to this hurricane was NOT a race thing it was/is a POOR thing.. if you look at most of the counties hit hard by this storm you will find a vast number of individuals that live below the poverty line, down here in the South we have so really poor people. Great people but poor and there is nothing wrong with being poor and working you ass off to try to make things better for you and your family but that is not what the media plays up, to vanilla for them... they have to find the broken dick, gutter trash, trailer trash poor to show on tv because that is the precieved way that things are down here. As for Ghosting's post, while on first glance looks racist, if you really look at what he is trying to point out, you will see that he is trying to show the same thing that a good many people have pointed out, that the media seems to have a racist problem when it comes to the way that people are protrayed.
 
The media shows a few black people doing wrong, and all black people are guilty too. The numbers show that the majority are white. So like Matt D said "its a poor thing."
 
Exactly as Mattew D said, the media is making it a racial issue. The 2nd picture is just to make fun of the media.
 
Ghosting said:
Mockery of the media. 2nd pic by Tech N9ne @ BBD.
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The first pic came from a shoddy site, it looks like a photoshop to me. "Finding food from" is not a sentence that you would see in a major publication :lol:

The second pic is kinda funny though...

The media is sickening to me, as an entity. They're making it a race issue for ratings. And, politicians are doing it for political gain; I just can't believe people would sink this low :sick:
 
DarkFalcon said:
I miss you buddy come back home. :sick:
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BRO!! :dance: Im posting mostly at BBD where you are the National Polka Champion. PM me there when you get a chance.
 
Big_E said:
Jesus Christ....a fucking tub of Heineken and one in the back pocket....just to be sure.:toofunny: Thats right, go ahead and dehydrate yourself some more there, buddy......What a fucking fool.
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Beyond a freaking fool this guy is. He is just greedy. When you see somthing that you can just take and it has some mind numbing value to it then some will take advantage as this guy has.
 
Well, we don't know his story but all we can do is ASSUME. He might have gone to the store to take some water, juice or ice but someone beat him to it. So, he looks to the side and see the beer and he went for it. I guess NO one thought about that possibility to this beer story. :(

Now, if you didn't have no water, juice or ice...What would you drink to stay alive and remember, these people was waiting for over four days to rec'v water and the human body need some type of fluids to stay alive. I guess a lot of you guy's would had died of thirst because I'm reading only negative comments about the man with the beer.

When you are place in a situation to survive...you will do what you have to do to survive or you will die. Those are the only two choices you have, in a situation like Katrina or any catastrophe.

So, let's stop thinking one way and think what would you have done to survive because some of you don't have no basic survival skills to live. { Hmmm, I guess I’ll drink this filthy water full of germs, dead creatures, debris, urine, **** and any other sickness that could be mix in this water but I will not touch this case of beer. } Or {I guess I’ll wait till someone come to rescue me…………four day later, they kick in your door and find you dead. You died of thirst but the policemen look to the side and see an unopened case of beer. } <<<<----- :wtf:





asap nutrition said:
Beyond a freaking fool this guy is. He is just greedy. When you see somthing that you can just take and it has some mind numbing value to it then some will take advantage as this guy has.
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QUICKRYDE said:
Well, we don't know his story but all we can do is ASSUME. He might have gone to the store to take some water, juice or ice but someone beat him to it. So, he looks to the side and see the beer and he went for it. I guess NO one thought about that possibility to this beer story. :(

Now, if you didn't have no water, juice or ice...What would you drink to stay alive and remember, these people was waiting for over four days to rec'v water and the human body need some type of fluids to stay alive. I guess a lot of you guy's would had died of thirst because I'm reading only negative comments about the man with the beer.

When you are place in a situation to survive...you will do what you have to do to survive or you will die. Those are the only two choices you have, in a situation like Katrina or any catastrophe.

So, let's stop thinking one way and think what would you have done to survive because some of you don't have no basic survival skills to live. { Hmmm, I guess I’ll drink this filthy water full of germs, dead creatures, debris, urine, **** and any other sickness that could be mix in this water but I will not touch this case of beer. } Or {I guess I’ll wait till someone come to rescue me…………four day later, they kick in your door and find you dead. You died of thirst but the policemen look to the side and see an unopened case of beer. } <<<<----- :wtf:
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:toofunny:
 
Then he should have grabbed the Non-Alcoholic beer because the ethanol in that Henkeiken is just going to dehydrate him further:P

Seriously though - maybe the guy's family got killed and all he felt like doing was drowning his sorrows in alcohol - know knows. We really dont have the right to judge the dude just from looking at a picture.

BV
 
QUICKRYDE said:
Well, we don't know his story but all we can do is ASSUME. He might have gone to the store to take some water, juice or ice but someone beat him to it. So, he looks to the side and see the beer and he went for it. I guess NO one thought about that possibility to this beer story. :(

Now, if you didn't have no water, juice or ice...What would you drink to stay alive and remember, these people was waiting for over four days to rec'v water and the human body need some type of fluids to stay alive. I guess a lot of you guy's would had died of thirst because I'm reading only negative comments about the man with the beer.

When you are place in a situation to survive...you will do what you have to do to survive or you will die. Those are the only two choices you have, in a situation like Katrina or any catastrophe.

So, let's stop thinking one way and think what would you have done to survive because some of you don't have no basic survival skills to live. { Hmmm, I guess I’ll drink this filthy water full of germs, dead creatures, debris, urine, **** and any other sickness that could be mix in this water but I will not touch this case of beer. } Or {I guess I’ll wait till someone come to rescue me…………four day later, they kick in your door and find you dead. You died of thirst but the policemen look to the side and see an unopened case of beer. } <<<<----- :wtf:
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:jaw:
 
Hmmmm...Mmkay, the beer might feel wet going down, but (simplified) in the end it will just dehrydrate you faster.Invalid Link Removed
 
Pioneer said:
haha that was kinda random...
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Ya, well now he is giving me the silent treatment since I wont kiss and make up. Hes acting like a jolted lover. :D
 
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