GuyverX
Well-known member
I wonder if thats why they discontiued the TNA....
that was some good stuff......
I had improved mood and everything...
I wonder if thats why they discontiued the TNA....
that was some good stuff......
I had improved mood and everything...
Mass_69
Well-known member
Blocking the synthesis of DHT (via 5a-reductase) and the binding of DHT to androgen receptors are two separate things.
With that being said, I have not searched myself for evidence whether or not it actually blocks DHT in prostate or scalp, or any tissue.
jdev
Active member
If it prevents Test from binding to SHBG (Which it does well), it gives 5AR more test to convert to DHT. Also more test for aromatase to convert into estrogen (Why divanil products are combined w/ an Estrogen reducer).
The evidence that Nettle protects the prostate and scalp is slim to none. Good point Mass_69, there are two ways in which a nettle could work. However nothing on either of those ways has been proven or shown in studies.
Nettle root NOT extracted for 3,4 - Divanillyltetrahydrofuran has been anecdotally reported to protect the prostate, but Im pretty sure thats the extent to which Nettle has been proven to work. Nothing on Divanil has been shown to work, and logically shouldn't.
divanil is still my favorite supplement tho.
The evidence that Nettle protects the prostate and scalp is slim to none. Good point Mass_69, there are two ways in which a nettle could work. However nothing on either of those ways has been proven or shown in studies.
Nettle root NOT extracted for 3,4 - Divanillyltetrahydrofuran has been anecdotally reported to protect the prostate, but Im pretty sure thats the extent to which Nettle has been proven to work. Nothing on Divanil has been shown to work, and logically shouldn't.
divanil is still my favorite supplement tho.
saludable24
Active member
I thought that Free Test doesn't aromatize, it could only become DHT. That is at leaste the impression I have gotten over the years as I've been reading about this stuff.
Also, to update you guys, I tried 1 bottle of my old formula TTE with the Divanil. I used it with some old Powerful + Symetry I had left over. I used it as directed 3 caps daily 6 on 1 off for 2 weeks. I noticed a little shedding after week 1; at the end of week 2 I got massive shedding so I backed off and only dose a couple of caps pre-workout. Shedding toned down, but was still noticably elevated the next 2 weeks.
I've been off TTE + the powerful/symmetry for over a week now and it seems like the last 3 days my hair loss has actually INCREASED. Grrrr. I see that my hairline has moved a bit, even with the reduced dosage I used the last 2 weeks. I've got a few little hairs coming in to replace it, but I'm hoping my body will regulate itself and stop making me continue to loose more hair even after I've stopped supplementing with T-Boosters.
PS, I did like using this combo, I just don't care for the hair loss.
Also, to update you guys, I tried 1 bottle of my old formula TTE with the Divanil. I used it with some old Powerful + Symetry I had left over. I used it as directed 3 caps daily 6 on 1 off for 2 weeks. I noticed a little shedding after week 1; at the end of week 2 I got massive shedding so I backed off and only dose a couple of caps pre-workout. Shedding toned down, but was still noticably elevated the next 2 weeks.
I've been off TTE + the powerful/symmetry for over a week now and it seems like the last 3 days my hair loss has actually INCREASED. Grrrr. I see that my hairline has moved a bit, even with the reduced dosage I used the last 2 weeks. I've got a few little hairs coming in to replace it, but I'm hoping my body will regulate itself and stop making me continue to loose more hair even after I've stopped supplementing with T-Boosters.
PS, I did like using this combo, I just don't care for the hair loss.
saludable24
Active member
Nice graphs. So are we to assume from this that the Bound/Unbound status of T is of little importance as far as conversion is concerned?
Also, If we inhibited 5AR, Aromatase, and Etiocholanolone, thereby keeping T levels WAY elevated, wouldn't we run into some sort of negative feedback loop for T?
Also, If we inhibited 5AR, Aromatase, and Etiocholanolone, thereby keeping T levels WAY elevated, wouldn't we run into some sort of negative feedback loop for T?
jdev
Active member
I don't think its possible to stop test being metabolized to etiocholanolone. It doesn't happen through an enzyme like Aromatase or 5AR. Also with too high etiocholanolone, you get sick. however, unless something is wrong w/ you in the first place, i think you excrete most if not all of the etiocholanolone.
Also the test converting back to androstenedione isn't a problem, if Armoatase is inhibited, stopping androstenedione from converting to estrone.
EDIT
About the test being bound, i don't think conversion happens on bound testosterone, but thats mainly a guess, i don't know
Also the test converting back to androstenedione isn't a problem, if Armoatase is inhibited, stopping androstenedione from converting to estrone.
EDIT
About the test being bound, i don't think conversion happens on bound testosterone, but thats mainly a guess, i don't know
saludable24
Active member
More hair loss!
Did your shedding ever stop?
I posted a bit ago that I was still shedding a bit. Well now that I've been off Divanil from TTE for about 4 weeks my shedding has INCREASED! AAAAAARGH!
I've gotten a little regrowth on the front of my hairline, but it is still very thin comparably. I'm afraid though that with this increased shedding it won't matter in in the end. My father had MPB, but I havn't really had any significant hair loss until now.
I've used DHEA/preg+whole nettle and trib and had some shedding, but it stopped when I discontinued use. DHEA alone and shedding stopped immediately after ceasing use.
I've also used a lot of herbal test boosters and none of them gave me shedding. Diesel Test helps free up test, no shedding from it. One I used was even TNA that used the 6,7 divanil extract stacked with powerfull+symmetry and Sir+. No shedding.
ARGH! Why is this time so different?
I want my hair, but I realy don't want to ruin my endocrine system with stuff like finasteride/rogain ect. I've heard the sides from those are permanent.
Only thing I can think to do is get some whole nettle extract, maybe some saw palmeto. Flax Oil may be of benefit to me as well. I'm already taking Isomer-E (tocotreinol) and have Toco-8 lined up for later, as well as Vit D, Adam, Ester-C, and Fish Oil, and Cissus that I take every day.
Any other suggestions guys?
Did your shedding ever stop?
I posted a bit ago that I was still shedding a bit. Well now that I've been off Divanil from TTE for about 4 weeks my shedding has INCREASED! AAAAAARGH!
I've gotten a little regrowth on the front of my hairline, but it is still very thin comparably. I'm afraid though that with this increased shedding it won't matter in in the end. My father had MPB, but I havn't really had any significant hair loss until now.
I've used DHEA/preg+whole nettle and trib and had some shedding, but it stopped when I discontinued use. DHEA alone and shedding stopped immediately after ceasing use.
I've also used a lot of herbal test boosters and none of them gave me shedding. Diesel Test helps free up test, no shedding from it. One I used was even TNA that used the 6,7 divanil extract stacked with powerfull+symmetry and Sir+. No shedding.
ARGH! Why is this time so different?
I want my hair, but I realy don't want to ruin my endocrine system with stuff like finasteride/rogain ect. I've heard the sides from those are permanent.
Only thing I can think to do is get some whole nettle extract, maybe some saw palmeto. Flax Oil may be of benefit to me as well. I'm already taking Isomer-E (tocotreinol) and have Toco-8 lined up for later, as well as Vit D, Adam, Ester-C, and Fish Oil, and Cissus that I take every day.
Any other suggestions guys?
Hyde12
Well-known member
Did your shedding ever stop?
I posted a bit ago that I was still shedding a bit. Well now that I've been off Divanil from TTE for about 4 weeks my shedding has INCREASED! AAAAAARGH!
I've gotten a little regrowth on the front of my hairline, but it is still very thin comparably. I'm afraid though that with this increased shedding it won't matter in in the end. My father had MPB, but I havn't really had any significant hair loss until now.
I've used DHEA/preg+whole nettle and trib and had some shedding, but it stopped when I discontinued use. DHEA alone and shedding stopped immediately after ceasing use.
I've also used a lot of herbal test boosters and none of them gave me shedding. Diesel Test helps free up test, no shedding from it. One I used was even TNA that used the 6,7 divanil extract stacked with powerfull+symmetry and Sir+. No shedding.
ARGH! Why is this time so different?
I want my hair, but I realy don't want to ruin my endocrine system with stuff like finasteride/rogain ect. I've heard the sides from those are permanent.
Only thing I can think to do is get some whole nettle extract, maybe some saw palmeto. Flax Oil may be of benefit to me as well. I'm already taking Isomer-E (tocotreinol) and have Toco-8 lined up for later, as well as Vit D, Adam, Ester-C, and Fish Oil, and Cissus that I take every day.
Any other suggestions guys?
I also use Gamma E (mixed Tocos) and it makes my hair grow at an almost scary rate!
GotTest
Active member
Have you tried any topicals (ie Nizoral, 5% spiro, rogaine)?
I've used Nizoral and 5% spiro to prevent shedding.
Also, I really don't think Rogaine will "ruin" your endocrine system.
Finast. sides (loss of libido) subside with cessation of use.
These sides are overstated. The research shows about 1% for the more common ones.
Hyde12
Well-known member
The sides are not overstated. You should read what some of the people in the Anti-Aging forum have said about Finasteride.
Flyboy
Member
Minoxidil has absolutely no effect on your endocrine system... it is a pain in the arse however. If you can deal with using it then it's a good option, but it doesn't address the balding problem, merely covers it up for a while. Underneath the superficially thicker hair the balding process is still going on. Keep an eye on RPN's virile mane that they are working on (not out yet damn them!) but sounds like an interesting topical which will address the main factors (inflammation, DHT, growth stimulant) without a systemic effect.
They are overstated on forums, those with problems sing the loudest. But i think the official 1% may be a bit low too.... there was an interesting bit of research about the sides done here
But I digress, this thread isn't about finasteride. I too am interested in a more definative answer on nettle root because it'd be an easy thing to add to the diet if it were going to help hairloss and muscle/strength in the process.
They are overstated on forums, those with problems sing the loudest. But i think the official 1% may be a bit low too.... there was an interesting bit of research about the sides done here
But I digress, this thread isn't about finasteride. I too am interested in a more definative answer on nettle root because it'd be an easy thing to add to the diet if it were going to help hairloss and muscle/strength in the process.
GotTest
Active member
I spoke with the guys I know who use it and they said they are dosing it at 1mg/day. I think the 5mg dosing is for prostate issues.
Granted I only know 3 guys taking it.
Back on topic...
I had just as much shedding with DRIVE/MassFX stack as I did with Tren...go figure.
Working on capping a bulk Natty stack right now.
I may back off on the Divanil dosing this time.
Granted I only know 3 guys taking it.
Back on topic...
I had just as much shedding with DRIVE/MassFX stack as I did with Tren...go figure.
Working on capping a bulk Natty stack right now.
I may back off on the Divanil dosing this time.
thundergod
Well-known member
I have a suggestion for you bro. If you're going to back off the divanil (and I would) you can substitute Testofen Powder in there instead. Google it and see what people are saying about it. NP has it and so does BN. I like it 5X better than divanil. In fact, I dropped divanil after trying the Testofen last fall. I use it in every PCT and natty cycle now!! It's da bomb!! :numbered:
GotTest
Active member
So it's basically Fenugreek Extract?
I know Dr D suggested this before in PCT.
Would standardized fenugreek work?
thundergod
Well-known member
Yes it would, but I'm not sure on the dosage with that form of it. Ask Dr. D or just do a search and see what people usually dose it at. I take 2 grams of the Testofen powder per day and it is excellent!! :thumbsup:
GotTest
Active member
Thanks brother, I'll check into it!
:thumbsup:
Flyboy
Member
I spoke with the guys I know who use it and they said they are dosing it at 1mg/day. I think the 5mg dosing is for prostate issues.
Granted I only know 3 guys taking it.
Yeah, I was actually agreeing with you... the study would suggest that even at 5mg (which as you say is for prostate, 1mg is the hairloss dose) the mere suggestion of the possibility of side effects was far more significant than the actual drug induced side effect. Which might go some way to explaining the number of people you see complaining on internet boards about it.... of course it's a powerful drug and no doubt does cause nasty side effects for some, I'm just offering a clue as to why it might sometimes seem so many suffer sides.
celc5
Well-known member
I'll second this. I've had great results with Nizarol OTC at 2-3x times per week. Zero to minimal increased shedding on several nha stacks and a few ph cycles.
saludable24
Active member
Does something like this need to be taken continuously, as in forever, in order to keep my hair? Or could it be used for a time and then ceased and stop this excessive shedding?
My problem is I havn't had shedding like this before and I'm just hoping it will go away as quickly as it came. I don't know why it hasn't.
nunes
Well-known member
ok Matt, I`m currently using actvt xt and ,5 mg ed of finasteride, personally i don't think that my hair is falling at an increased rate but you made that statement without any scientific study backup (at least you haven't posted any) and this is an important thing for a lot of costumers who have sides from increased dht levels, suddenly you disappeared from this thread but the question was not answered, how can you make that statement(Nettle blocks the binding of dht at the scalp and prostate)?
you cant see that on a blood work, you can see lower dht levels but the study that usplabs posted shows the opposite so I`m not convinced...
I`m sorry but the costumer deserves a better explanation on this subject.
NeoNewfie
New member
On the anecdotal level, I can add my voice to the growing chorus. In the two months I ran Activate and then Animal Test, I experienced greatly accelerated hair loss in the "bald spot" area at the back of the top of the head, whereas I normally tend to recede up front. This is not a complaint -- Animal Test did exactly what it said it would do: made my joints silky, my muscles full, and my step bouncy. And anyway, I had read informed members of another forum recommend those prone to MPB stay away from Divanil, but I decided not to care. At 35 and married, I'm probably a little less concerned than some of you with those kinds of details. Besides, I've lost enough by now that I already have it shaved down once a month. But I did want to confirm that during that stack I lost way more hair than usual, that at least two people I'm close to commented on it, and that it has not abated since. Could just be age and coincidence.
celc5
Well-known member
For me, no. I've noticed that once I have a shedding spell, I'll use the Nizarol for about 4-6 weeks until it stops. Once i go off of the Nizarol, it's sometimes MONTHS before I find anymore hair in the drain.
celc5
Well-known member
I took activate extreme and got no results.
I'll second that statement. Nothing from Activate, Activate Extreme, or MassFx. I even tried stacking Activate and MassFx for 1 month with no results. I double dosed Activate Extreme a few months later and got nothing from that either.
In all fairness, I think I had a little bloat both times. And initally, I got a little hype-instigated placebo effect from MassFx. I guess some of us aren't responders? :think:
AdelV
Well-known member
I didnt expect much. Last time I had my hormones checked... my Total test was 24/30, my SGBH was at the lowest point, androgen levels was 1550/1190 and dhea 15.5/11.9.
Endo kept asking if I was taking steroids or HGH.
No test boosters have ever worked for me, I thought with all the awesome reviews, I may get somthing out of it but nothing
Suxs!
thundergod
Well-known member
I have to agree with both of you gentlemen. I've thrown lots of freakin' $ down the crapper on "test-boosters"!! :frustrate The only thing I have used that I feel is worth a damn is Testofen. It's a fenugreek extracted at 50% fenusides. It has clinical studies showing bloodwork on various individuals whose free test doubled after 6 weeks of 600 mg. per day. That and Icariin and DHEA is all that is even remotely effective IMO!! :thumbsup:
JohnnieFreeze
Well-known member
I happened across this thread and just wanted to comment that if you're shedding 2 months later from JW than I doubt its MPB but probably T.E...brought on by the A.I. component for sure. I have the same problem. I cant use AIs stand alone or even along with test free-ers...only with strong test boosters in general.
fanzdslpwr1
Member
whats the latest with stinging nettle then. does it increase DHT or not?
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
I'm also wondering this.