Need to bring up my biggest weak point(arms) looking for advice

Mitch_310

Mitch_310

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Hello everyone. I’m looking for some training advice on how to bring up my arms. They are a weak point of mine that I want to bring up to balance out my physique more.

I currently run a p/p/l split. Start out with heavy compounds, then isolation work. I feel like one of my biggest downfalls as to why my arms are lagging is because I tend to hit them later on in my workouts.

I’m going to add an individual arm day now so my new split would go p/p/l/ arms/ rest

What do you guys recommend as for training? Arms have always been tricky for me, it’s very hard to progressively to get stronger on doing isolation movements like curls. Should I be more focusing on adding more volume? Weight? Or both. Any input would be appreciated
 
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Slims

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My arms are the weakest and most stubborn of my body parts too. Volume has worked better for my arms than just heavy brute force. You should see some decent improvements from from adding in an individual day for arms only.
 
EMPIREMIND

EMPIREMIND

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You could add in an arm day and remove isolation from you push pull split. Then pick either push or pull or legs as a priority for your physique.

For instance if you want to bring up your chest and shoulders do something like this: pull, push, legs, arms, rest, push, rest

To bring up back do something like this:
Push, pull, legs, arms, rest, pull, rest

As I said if you going to do this I would drop the isolation work on your push and pull days. Let’s your arms get stimulated from the compound movements and give them their own days. Also not to sound funny but you may need to simply just add more muscle overall.
 
B

BBiceps

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I heard both Piana and CT Fletcher say they were doing arms every workout in the beginning to get big arms.

I started to do this with rear delts and it made a big difference, I don’t kill them but every workout I do at least one exercise rear delts, regardless of muscle group I’m working that day, sometimes I even do some with bands at home on days off from the gym.
 
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I train arms and my calfs 3 times per week at varying rep ranges, rest periods and varying loads. I have been using this system for 20+ years and it works great. At one point, when I was juicing heavy many years ago, my arms got very big, I had dial the workouts way back and the juice!
 
EMPIREMIND

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I heard both Piana and CT Fletcher say they were doing arms every workout in the beginning to get big arms.

I started to do this with rear delts and it made a big difference, I don’t kill them but every workout I do at least one exercise rear delts, regardless of muscle group I’m working that day, sometimes I even do some with bands at home on days off from the gym.

Most guys can not recover quick enough for that. A lot of guys will actually see more growth from dialing the volume back if they were frequently training them. I think it could help for short periods of overreaching, but this could lead to some tendonitis real quick if you do it indefinitely.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Unlike compound lifts and large muscle groups, I wouldn’t focus on lifting a ton of weight. Focus on really isolating those target muscles when you’re doing isolation work. Really work the muscle through the FULL range of motion, and flex it through the lift, don’t just move the weight, flex it up with a focused contraction. My biceps are probably my strongest point, and I rarely ever curl more than 40s with dumbbells or 100 with a bar. But I really flex the biceps the entire lift, if that makes any sense, and I have constant tension in them the entire set. No going limp or relaxing during the set unless it’s at the end so you can knock out one or two more reps.

And Piana and CT aren’t/weren’t exactly the best bodybuilders or experts in the world, so why listen to them really? Arnold’s arms were much better and he didn’t do them every workout. Neither did pretty much any actual bodybuilder lol.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Too many people just go through the motions and throw around heavy weights, never really getting a full ROM, a good contraction and peak flex, or constant time under tension. Those are key for arms IMO.
 
B

BBiceps

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Most guys can not recover quick enough for that. A lot of guys will actually see more growth from dialing the volume back if they were frequently training them. I think it could help for short periods of overreaching, but this could lead to some tendonitis real quick if you do it indefinitely.
I disagree
 
B

BBiceps

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And Piana and CT aren’t/weren’t exactly the best bodybuilders or experts in the world.
Well, Piana had some enormous arms and CT had a world record in biceps curl so they probably know more than most and if a world record holder is not an expert I don’t know who is...
 
The Solution

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Improve Form
Eliminate Momentum
Focus on proper execution of the movement
Proper Rep Tempo (slow negatives to stretch the muscle)
Mind Muscle Connection > Form
Prioritize them in your training (Do them first if you do push/pull/legs or upper/lower)
Intensity Techniques --> DropSets, Accumulation Sets, Partials, Iso-Holds, BFR Training)
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

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Well, Piana had some enormous arms and CT had a world record in biceps curl so they probably know more than most and if a world record holder is not an expert I don’t know who is...
Piana also had all sorts of site injections and oil in his arms, and bodybuilders don’t care about trying to curl as much weight as possible. Would you ask a powerlifter about bodybuilding? Because that’s what CT was actually successful as. Arnold’s arms made them both look bad in comparison, and so did Ronnie’s, and neither of them did every day arm workouts. So you showed two people who didn’t even have close to the most impressive biceps from a bodybuilding perspective and tell me that somehow their way is the best for building big biceps when a plethora of people with better biceps didn’t do this? Hell, I’m not a fan of Phil Heath, but his biceps are leagues above CT and Piana’s ever were, and he doesn’t train them every day either.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Ironically, the old CT who was a big strong powerlifter who joked about eating McDonalds between sets of super heavy bench presses for easy reps was awesome. The new CT who puts on this always angry drill sergeant thing where he “commands your arms to grow” while shouting at them isn’t nearly as interesting to watch IMO.

And some of CT’s workouts are asinine. Go watch some of Infinite Elgentensity’s videos where he rips him apart for how stupid some of the workouts are.
 
muscleupcrohn

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You can always just do chest and back on one day, and arms on another, so you can hit them when they’re fresh, while not pre-exhausting them to where they’d be tired and hurt your bench/rows later in the workout. And arms are very easy to superset, so you can even work them both evenly so you don’t have to place all your focus on only biceps or only triceps. Arnold was a big fan of supersetting arms, and Arnold had perhaps the best biceps in bodybuilding history.
 
B

BBiceps

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Piana also had all sorts of site injections and oil in his arms, and bodybuilders don’t care about trying to curl as much weight as possible. Would you ask a powerlifter about bodybuilding? Because that’s what CT was actually successful as. Arnold’s arms made them both look bad in comparison, and so did Ronnie’s, and neither of them did every day arm workouts. So you showed two people who didn’t even have close to the most impressive biceps from a bodybuilding perspective and tell me that somehow their way is the best for building big biceps when a plethora of people with better biceps didn’t do this? Hell, I’m not a fan of Phil Heath, but his biceps are leagues above CT and Piana’s ever were, and he doesn’t train them every day either.
I never said they were the best, I said that that’s was what they did to get the arms to grow and I used the same concept with luck. I suggested OP to try it but hey, good job arguing about who have the best biceps!
 
E

ericos_bob

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OP, do you have much experience with high volume training?. If not, have a read here. https://skinnyfattransformation.com/serge-nubret-pump-training/ It's a basic introduction to pump training. You have to let go of the ego as you'll be lifting what others will deem laughable loads but if you can push through the pain as your arms swell in the latter sets your arms will grow. I train arms at the end of leg day (twice a week)
 
celc5

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I train arms at the end of leg day (twice a week)
I like this suggestion. My personal best compound movement is deadlifts. And I've had good luck bringing up arms and posterior delts on deadlift days.
 
rochabp

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Too many people just go through the motions and throw around heavy weights, never really getting a full ROM, a good contraction and peak flex, or constant time under tension. Those are key for arms IMO.
This!
Key for all muscles really
 
Segansational

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I always enjoy training arms, so I've always had an arm day. Usually I also do opposing exercise supersets (eg, bicep curls superset with skull crushers). But I feel that triceps press downs with a v-bar always gave me the best growth for triceps, one of my favorite exercises.
 
Resolve10

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Outside of the usual just improving quality of the movement I think your initial assessment is a good start. Try adding a dedicated day and see how that works.

I’m a fan of increasing overall volume, typically through frequency, for weak points in a sort of overload/overreach followed by backing off that muscle (or back to similar initial volume) after a certain period of time.
 
BarryScott

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Not really a bodybuilder but some personal observations/opinions:

The biggest drivers of growth are weighted dips for triceps and weighted chins biceps, you can fit these in wherever in your program (e.g. chest and back or push and pull days)

After that it's close-grip bench and heavy standing curls, these work well together as the main lifts of an arm day.

Give arms their own day, you can get away with doing it in lieu of a rest day as long as you're not doing something silly.

You can train biceps to some degree basically every day. That might be something light like high rep dumbbell curls tacked on to the end of a workout.

You can do triceps 3-4 times a week (including pressing movements).

Best results come from a mix of heavy low reps and aggressive progression and high rep pump-chasing stuff, with myo reps, rest pause, drop sets, etc.

Mixing up your grip from day to day will save your elbows, swap between straight bar, ez bar, football bar, fat gripz, rope, towel, etc. Pure broscience but I think those is one of those times where "muscle confusion" makes sense.
 
Mitch_310

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Thanks for all the replies guys. Really good advice. Been doing this for a little over a week now. But I’ve increased my total volume on arm training. I like my P/P/L routine rn. But I’ve switched it up to P/P/L/arms. On my push and pull days I go for high volume arm training with light weights, focusing on training the muscle to failure and getting a good pump/ mind muscle connection. On the individual arm days I combine it with shoulders as well, so arms and shoulders (shoulders can never be too big lol) and focus on heavier movements. Then go to isolation work. So overall I’ve increased my total volume with my arms. Hopefully I see some growth within the next coming months!!!
 
Mitch_310

Mitch_310

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Thanks for all the replies guys. Really good advice. Been doing this for a little over a week now. But I’ve increased my total volume on arm training. I like my P/P/L routine rn. But I’ve switched it up to P/P/L/arms. On my push and pull days I go for high volume arm training with light weights, focusing on training the muscle to failure and getting a good pump/ mind muscle connection. On the individual arm days I combine it with shoulders as well, so arms and shoulders (shoulders can never be too big lol) and focus on heavier movements. Then go to isolation work. So overall I’ve increased my total volume with my arms. Hopefully I see some growth within the next coming months!!!
On my arm and shoulder days, I’ve also added some more cardio in as well for active recovery and to keep my endurance up. I also take dmaa pre workout a few times a week when I really want to hit it hard. Stuff is mad good, but I can see how people get addicted/build a tolerance to this thing fast
 
EMPIREMIND

EMPIREMIND

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Thanks for all the replies guys. Really good advice. Been doing this for a little over a week now. But I’ve increased my total volume on arm training. I like my P/P/L routine rn. But I’ve switched it up to P/P/L/arms. On my push and pull days I go for high volume arm training with light weights, focusing on training the muscle to failure and getting a good pump/ mind muscle connection. On the individual arm days I combine it with shoulders as well, so arms and shoulders (shoulders can never be too big lol) and focus on heavier movements. Then go to isolation work. So overall I’ve increased my total volume with my arms. Hopefully I see some growth within the next coming months!!!
Good luck
 
EMPIREMIND

EMPIREMIND

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Well, Piana had some enormous arms and CT had a world record in biceps curl so they probably know more than most and if a world record holder is not an expert I don’t know who is...
Realize a few things... ct was a big guy, around 300 lbs, so was piana. Ct was lifitng huge poundages. Also piana had pmma implants.... so there’s that.

Here’s one thing that will work for most... put ten pounds of lean muscle on and your arms should be about an inch bigger
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

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Realize a few things... ct was a big guy, around 300 lbs, so was piana. Ct was lifitng huge poundages. Also piana had pmma implants.... so there’s that.

Here’s one thing that will work for most... put ten pounds of lean muscle on and your arms should be about an inch bigger
Not to mention that CT and Piana’s workouts have become more outlandish over the years. What they claim to do now/recently, if it’s actually what they even do off camera at all, was not what they did to build their base and get to 99% of where they’re at. They’re workouts designed to get attention, to get people who want to try them and then sell things to them.
 
B

BBiceps

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Realize a few things... ct was a big guy, around 300 lbs, so was piana. Ct was lifitng huge poundages. Also piana had pmma implants.... so there’s that.

Here’s one thing that will work for most... put ten pounds of lean muscle on and your arms should be about an inch bigger
Lol, thanks, I didn’t “realize” that they were huge guys and lifted heavy weights, wow, such a eye opener ?
 
B

BBiceps

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Not to mention that CT and Piana’s workouts have become more outlandish over the years. What they claim to do now/recently, if it’s actually what they even do off camera at all, was not what they did to build their base and get to 99% of where they’re at. They’re workouts designed to get attention, to get people who want to try them and then sell things to them.
I was never a fan of Piana so I really don’t know that much about him but I am a fan of CT and even though I know his workout videos are edited I still love his intensity.

Also, congrats on being a successful web video detective, I’m glad you explained to us that videos like CT’s are designed to get attention and sell something, well done, it was impossible to know otherwise.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

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I was never a fan of Piana so I really don’t know that much about him but I am a fan of CT and even though I know his workout videos are edited I still love his intensity.

Also, congrats on being a successful web video detective, I’m glad you explained to us that videos like CT’s are designed to get attention and sell something, well done, it was impossible to know otherwise.
My point is that the workouts he shows in his videos are almost unquestionably NOT the workouts he does every week, and are undoubtedly not what he did to build his base and get to where he is/was. So you can claim to like his workouts that he shows/sells today, but pointing to his success/physique and saying that these workouts are responsible for it is either ignorant or disingenuous...
 
B

BBiceps

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My point is that the workouts he shows in his videos are almost unquestionably NOT the workouts he does every week, and are undoubtedly not what he did to build his base and get to where he is/was. So you can claim to like his workouts that he shows/sells today, but pointing to his success/physique and saying that these workouts are responsible for it is either ignorant or disingenuous...
I never said that, I said that CT used to do biceps every day to make them grow and that’s still the only thing I suggested OP to try, and that I used the same concept with luck.

You’re not too fun at parties huh?
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

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I never said that, I said that CT used to do biceps every day to make them grow and that’s still the only thing I suggested OP to try, and that I used the same concept with luck.

You’re not too fun at parties huh?
He set the curl record in 1992. Did he do biceps every day back then, or more recently since becoming a fitness celebrity selling programs and an image?

Because he didn’t do arms in this workout back in the day. After chest was CHEESEBURGERS, not biceps. And he was massive by this point, so he didn’t get to that size doing arms every day. And I found his genuine funny and self-aware while still very confident attitude way more entertaining than the over the top intense drill Sargent persona he’s adopted in the recent years.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qkX3K_o6YhA
 
B

BBiceps

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He set the curl record in 1992. Did he do biceps every day back then, or more recently since becoming a fitness celebrity selling programs and an image?

Because he didn’t do arms in this workout back in the day. After chest was CHEESEBURGERS, not biceps. And he was massive by this point, so he didn’t get to that size doing arms every day. And I found his genuine funny and self-aware while still very confident attitude way more entertaining than the over the top intense drill Sargent persona he’s adopted in the recent years.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qkX3K_o6YhA
Lol, you’re too funny, I don’t care what you think is entertaining.

Here you go snowflake, arms everyday for the first 1.5 year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHiKDa4ip_Q&app=desktop
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

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Lol, you’re too funny, I don’t care what you think is entertaining.

Here you go snowflake, arms everyday for the first 1.5 year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHiKDa4ip_Q&app=desktop
How am I a “snowflake?” Come up with some better insults man...

And even if he did it for 1.5 years as a fresh new beginning lifter, he wasn’t setting records or having “22-inch arms” at that point, so you just further supported my claim that he didn’t set the record, which you listed as the reason to do what he did, by training arms every day. He learned better and changed his routine on his way go setting the record and developing a great physique. And now he says/does whatever makes him stand out, whatever makes him looks and sound extreme and hardcore, and it’s built him a very successful brand and image, so props to him.
 
B

BBiceps

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How am I a “snowflake?” Come up with some better insults man...

And even if he did it for 1.5 years as a fresh new beginning lifter, he wasn’t setting records or having “22-inch arms” at that point, so you just further supported my claim that he didn’t set the record, which you listed as the reason to do what he did, by training arms every day. He learned better and changed his routine on his way go setting the record and developing a great physique. And now he says/does whatever makes him stand out, whatever makes him looks and sound extreme and hardcore, and it’s built him a very successful brand and image, so props to him.
Sorry, it wasn’t meant to be a insult, I really thought you were a snowflake or some sensitive lesbian that feels the need to debate and argue about every unnecessary thing ever.

If you what to make this thread about something totally different, why not make it about something that’s actually worth arguing about?! Because this seems really silly...
 
BarryScott

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I don't think CTF doing biceps every day is that outlandish or stupid sounding really. Plenty gymbros do curls and bench pretty much every day, and yeah they're usually idiots with terribly disproportionate physiques, but they do have big biceps and pecs.
 
Darkheart

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Too many people just go through the motions and throw around heavy weights, never really getting a full ROM, a good contraction and peak flex, or constant time under tension. Those are key for arms IMO.
My thoughts exactly, I see this all the time at my gym.
 
EMPIREMIND

EMPIREMIND

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Lol, thanks, I didn’t “realize” that they were huge guys and lifted heavy weights, wow, such a eye opener ?
Some people don’t get it, that’s why I said they were big. CT was eating McDonald’s for years on end, high calorie diet and was a BIG dude, taking juice, and lifting heavy weights, his strict curl was around 200 pounds iirc. After years of being big lift that and cutting down, to the size people know him to be as of recent, his arms are huge, but that’s because they are the arms of 300+ pound man. Most guys want big arms and aren’t even breaking 200lbs on the scale...

And piana had a surgeon give him pmma implants in his arms. But hey if you believe doing 8 arm workouts a day drinking 8 protein shakes a day is going to grow your arms an inch, who am I to stop you....
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

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Exactly. CT (recently?) claimed that he did biceps every workout for the first 1.5 years he trained or something, but we know that during his “peak” as a powerlifter benching 500 like it’s a warmup that he wasn’t doing it then, as evidenced by him ending his chest workout with cheeseburgers, not biceps. So either he realized that doing biceps every workout wasn’t optimal sometime between 1.5 years and that point, or he just made it up to sell his new persona/programs/etc.

Not to mention that 99.999999% of the bodybuilders and other people with the best arms in the history of mankind don’t and HAVE NEVER done biceps every workout, and you can sort of see that an n=2 (if you count Piana and his augmentation) report isn’t exactly compelling. Especially since these two aren’t even the best of the best, so it’s not like you can at least argue that what they did allowed them to be better than all the other best people.
 
DGator86

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If you want bigger arms then keep it to supersets, and negatives. Whatever causes the most metabolic byproducts to come out of your muscle cells. Also, Biceps are nice but triceps will make your arm look bigger.

TIME UNDER TENSION IS KEY.
COMPOUND MOVEMENTS ARE BEST.

For instance...one of my favorites and something you can do every other day with huge strength gains in a matter of weeks.

Light dumbbell (I start at 50)
10 dumbbell bench press
10 dumbbell pressed together bench press
10 second hold locked out
All of those are a complex with no break in between. Should take 20-30 seconds.

Repeat with ascending weight to near failure. THEN IMMEDIATLY...

Max Reps Bench Press with original weight.

Get creative and get swole.
 
Bigmatt57

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Finish your bicep workout with this crazy Curl finisher, grab 30-35 pound dumbbells and do these reps. 10-20-30-40-50-40-30-20-10, only take about 20 seconds of rest in between. Sh1t is Killerrr
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

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Finish your bicep workout with this crazy Curl finisher, grab 30-35 pound dumbbells and do these reps. 10-20-30-40-50-40-30-20-10, only take about 20 seconds of rest in between. Sh1t is Killerrr
If you can do 50 legit reps with 35lb dumbbells at the end of your workout after four other sets with only twenty seconds of rest between them, you should have insane biceps already. Am I missing something here?
 
Bigmatt57

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If you can do 50 legit reps with 35lb dumbbells at the end of your workout after four other sets with only twenty seconds of rest between them, you should have insane biceps already. Am I missing something here?
You won’t be doing perfect form it’s gonna have some swing, but let me tell you something it’s still gonna feel f$cking insane.
 
muscleupcrohn

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You won’t be doing perfect form it’s gonna have some swing, but let me tell you something it’s still gonna feel f$cking insane.
If you’re doing anything that even resembles curls more than cleans after 20-30 reps you should have massive biceps already. I’m genuinely curious what your arms look like if you can do this.
 
EMPIREMIND

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I think it’s pretty simple... regardless of your split. When you go and train, make sure your progressing, either more reps or more weight. Do this every workout. If you cannot you need to add more food or more rest between sessions. For hypertrophy stay in the 8-12 rep range for the most part. If you want to use guys like ct and piana as reference points another strategy could be adding more to your dose lol. Training is about progression. If you have more muscle you should be able to lift more weight, either in pounds or reps. Do this every session no fail and you will 100% have bigger arms. Pump workouts are great, definitely will help maintain and can add some size, but if you are looking to build new muscle you need progression in training food and recovery.
 
K

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Some people don’t get it, that’s why I said they were big. CT was eating McDonald’s for years on end, high calorie diet and was a BIG dude, taking juice, and lifting heavy weights, his strict curl was around 200 pounds iirc. After years of being big lift that and cutting down, to the size people know him to be as of recent, his arms are huge, but that’s because they are the arms of 300+ pound man. Most guys want big arms and aren’t even breaking 200lbs on the scale...

And piana had a surgeon give him pmma implants in his arms. But hey if you believe doing 8 arm workouts a day drinking 8 protein shakes a day is going to grow your arms an inch, who am I to stop you....
I can't believe you are even still giving BBiceps any time of day. What a dick.
 
Old Witch

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BFR bicep/tricep supersets.

Shoulder isolation training.

Forearm Day.
 
Old Witch

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If you’re doing anything that even resembles curls more than cleans after 20-30 reps you should have massive biceps already. I’m genuinely curious what your arms look like if you can do this.
I can do 35 for 25 in good form and my arms look like ****. 17” but total ****.
 
muscleupcrohn

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I can do 35 for 25 in good form and my arms look like ****. 17” but total ****.
Bad biceps genes? I swear my genetics took all my calf muscles and threw them on top of my biceps.

I have seen some massive elite pros with no bicep peaks, so I guess this is a thing that can happen.
 
Old Witch

Old Witch

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Bad biceps genes? I swear my genetics took all my calf muscles and threw them on top of my biceps.

I have seen some massive elite pros with no bicep peaks, so I guess this is a thing that can happen.
I think my curl just came back up kind of fast, or my endurance is rather high. My initial strength sucks, especially on curls. I’m 6’3” so the mechanics of how I can lift are a bit different. I’ve never been heavy on curls, always high reps. Otherwise my elbows will just ache for days and days.
 

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