Need Some Guidance - Clomid TRT with Arimidex to control high E2?

[IntraBolic]

Hello,

A brief history. I was originally put on TRT back in 2012 by my urologist after diagnosing me secondary at the age of 30. I didn't know any better so I went on TRT and was relatively stable for about 13 months. I decided to get a second opinion about a year in and went to an endo who diagnosed me with a pituitary tumor (which I am treating with cabergoline). During that time I went off TRT cold turkey (bad idea) and went about a year without TRT. My levels never went above 275 but estrogen always stayed around 20. The hopes were that once my prolactin was reduced my test production would start back up. Well...it didn't.

Fast forward, my endo has put me on clomid TRT since last November and has brought my TT up from ~275 to ~920 and have since reduced my dosage down from 50mg of clomid EOD to 25mg of clomid EOD (which I take 12.5mg ED). At 25mgs my TT is 770 (range 250-827) but my estrogen is 40 (range <39 pg/ml). My doc recommended arimidex and has prescribed 1mg ED which I have not started yet since I believe he is overdosing me and I will crash my E2 levels. My main problems are lowered libido and don't feel 100%. I definitely feel better on clomid than off TRT altogether but I think the estrogen may be causing me to feel off.

My endo is hoping this will restart me and I won't need clomid or TRT in 12 months time.

My question is will a low dose arimidex work while on clomid? I've been reading conflicting views that says the E2 conversion from clomid is in the testicles and arimidex cannot control that while others say yes absolutely it works. If I used it I was thinking 0.25mg 3x/week?

Just wanted to get some guidance from the board since I'm sure someone has been here before. If not, I'll be a human guinea pig again.

Thanks

 

[sammpedd88]

Start with .25 mgs every 3.5 days. That should be plenty at your level

 

[pmgamer18]

Hi IntraBolic,

We can't test Estradiol on Clomid and get a good result you need to be off it about 8 to 12 weeks to tell what your true Estradiol level is.

I gauge my Estradiol E2 levels by my Rem Sleep Wood if I have it I know my E2 is good. I not I check it to see if I can get it up before getting out of bed that morning. If I can get it up but it's not a good one I know my E2 is high and for that day I will take extra E2 meds.

If I can't get it up like it's dead I know I am to low and will stop the E2 meds until RSW comes back that morning I go back on it but take less.

Here is a copy full of info from a post I did some time ago.
==================================================
Ryan <[email protected]> Hi John, I just wanted to add that your swollen ankles can be caused by high Estradiol (E2) levels. When my E2 was very high, my legs and feet were swollen so much that I couldn't even wear shoes. Once I got my E2 down to normal levels, all of the swelling
To
[email protected]
11/01/11 at 8:15 PM
Hi John,

I just wanted to add that your swollen ankles can be caused by high
Estradiol (E2) levels.

When my E2 was very high, my legs and feet were swollen so much that I
couldn't even wear shoes. Once I got my E2 down to normal levels, all
of the swelling went away completely and has not returned.

When you add testosterone to your body, it can convert into estrogen via
a chemical called "aromatase". Your liver produces aromatase, your fat
cells contain aromatase, etc. There are different parts of estrogen,
but the only part that men really care about is "estradiol" (E2).

Like Phil said, when E2 goes up, it "makes you feel like crap and kills
your sex life". As E2 levels go up, SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin)
levels tend to go up, too. SHBG attaches itself to testosterone and
basically makes the testosterone useless. In other words, you can have
"good" levels of testosterone, but if your SHBG is too high, you still
feel like you have low testosterone.

Here is a list of some of the symptoms of high E2 (you don't have to
experience all of the symptoms to know that you have high E2):
* Depression
* Trouble reaching an orgasm
* No erections while sleeping (i.e. "night wood" or "morning wood")
* Anxiety
* Panic Attacks
* Prostate problems
* Gynecomastia
* Water Retention
* Dizziness/Vertigo
* Increased Blood Pressure
* Decreased Libido
* ED
* When penis is limp, it doesn't hang low (it seems to try to crawl back up)
* Asthma like issues (due to increased water retention around the lungs)
* Trouble sleeping at night - waking up multiple times per night
* Lack of Libido
* Crying while watching TV shows/movies
* Easier to get angry (think PMS)
* Insulin Resistance (getting tired after eating a meal - if left
untreated, it can lead to Type II Diabetes)
* Larger stomach
* Redness on the face and/or chest
* Feeling hotter than everybody else
* Thinner skin/bleeding easier

Ryan
Hypogonadism2 Co-Moderator - not a medical professional.

-----------------------------------------------------
How To Take Arimdex or Aromasin and not go down on your Estradiol to Low.



What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need .25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

 

[IntraBolic]

Thanks for the guidance. I started with .25mg 2/x week and will monitor how I feel. I'm due back for blood work in 6 weeks so we'll see how I respond. I can't imagine how bad I would have crashed my e2 level if I would have went with 1mg/day...that's crazy talk.

 

[davesavvy]

I've been doing 12.5 mg clomid daily for secondary too. In 2015, I added low dose adex & tried varioious dosages, i.e. .25 mg E3D & EOD. Bottom line...my lipid panel got much worse during that year. Not positive that was from adex but many claim that's a known side effect.

So now I have switched to DIM 200 mg & calcium d-glucarate 500 mg 2x day. This combo was recently suggested by Dr. Crisler as he has some of his patients doing that whom are on ld clomid mono therapy. I plan to wait 8 weeks & do blood work to see how that does for me compared to the adex.

 

[IntraBolic]

I've been doing 12.5 mg clomid daily for secondary too. In 2015, I added low dose adex & tried varioious dosages, i.e. .25 mg E3D & EOD. Bottom line...my lipid panel got much worse during that year. Not positive that was from adex but many claim that's a known side effect.

So now I have switched to DIM 200 mg & calcium d-glucarate 500 mg 2x day. This combo was recently suggested by Dr. Crisler as he has some of his patients doing that whom are on ld clomid mono therapy. I plan to wait 8 weeks & do blood work to see how that does for me compared to the adex.

Interesting. It's somewhat comforting to know that others out there are going through what I'm going through (although I wouldn't wish this on anyone). I haven't considered the long term lipid impacts. I'll be sure to ask my doc to add that into my labs to keep an eye on it.

Let me know how the DIM/Calcium combo works. Curious, what was your e2 and T levels that led you to start the arimidex?

 

[davesavvy]

Interesting. It's somewhat comforting to know that others out there are going through what I'm going through (although I wouldn't wish this on anyone). I haven't considered the long term lipid impacts. I'll be sure to ask my doc to add that into my labs to keep an eye on it.

Let me know how the DIM/Calcium combo works. Curious, what was your e2 and T levels that led you to start the arimidex?

Clomid 12.5 EOD= E2 was 29 (> or = 29), TT 506
Clomid 12.5 Daily + Arimidex .25mg EOD= E2 was 20 (> or = 29), TT 637 (labs after 1 month though)
Clomid 12.5 Daily + Arimidex .25mg E3D= E2 was 33 (> or = 29), TT 620 (labs after 5 month)

Cholesterol got progressively worse over the course of year I was on adex.

 

[IntraBolic]

Okay, labs are back. Everyone was right .25mg 2x per week was about right. Any higher and I would have crashed my E2 since I was only at 40 before. So here are my partial lab results on 12.5mg of clomid/day with .25mg arimidex 2x per week. Labs were 6 weeks after starting arimidex.

ESTRADIOL - 26 (range <= 39 pg/ml)
TOTAL TEST - 776 (250 - 827 ng/dL)
FREE TEST - 99.5 (46.0 - 224.0 pg/mL)
SHBG - 36 (10 - 50 nmol/L)

 

[pmgamer18]

IntraBolic,

You can't get good results or true ones testing E2 on Clomid read post 3 here.

 

[IntraBolic]

IntraBolic,

You can't get good results or true ones testing E2 on Clomid read post 3 here.

Do you have a whitepaper link I could show my endo? He's not of the same opinion.

 

[pmgamer18]

IntraBolic,

No can't find anything I read about this at MESO.com when Dr. John was a mod there he now has his on forum allthingsmale.com.

I you live in the USA Endo's are not good Dr.'s for low T at all.