Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Need some bro science

GrowinBoy36

GrowinBoy36

New member
Here's my situation and the question I have. 31 yr old. 215. I've been on AE, MTest, Epiplex, and BYLD for 10 weeks.

Went in for bloods just looking to get testosterone levels checked. Checked all other functions cuz why not.

Test looked to be middle of the range(fine). Liver function was great. Thyroid was over working and under producing(this runs in family so likely just genetics). BUT the one that had me a little worried was kidney function GFR was down to 80. Was 110 a year ago.

I was doing this full natty stack as an intro, and was planning to run a TD 1Andro, TD 4andro, oral epiandro stack for 8 weeks. Followed by a standard pct tamox plan.

Do I give up on the dream of getting a little andro boost in the gym??? Or am I overworrying about the GFR 80 score. 60 or below is considered to be starting kidney failure 😑

B12 was also a little high but I drink a 5 hour everyday. I'm guessing that explains that, but we'll see on a re check.

Anyways I'm really interested in opinions. Try to understand im obsessed with pumping weight and it's my main hobby. And I was really looking forward to this lol
 
Xgels does increase inflammation and that could effect your score. But, that's a big drop, and I absolutely would not use anything that could make it worse. No cycles bro. Gotta figure this one out correctly cus it's definitely not a joking matter.

Take x gels out the picture.

Chronic inflammation will screw up your gfr and kidney function. Did you get a c reaction protein score?
 
Ah damn. That's what I was worried about. Thanks for the true words.

I lied. Idk where I got 110 previously. They didn't check eGFR with last metabolic panel a year ago. And other levels like bilirubin creatinin and protein were in range and creatinin was the only one higher then a year ago.

She said liver and kidney function looked good but i was worried about the 81 mark on eGFR. According to results they wanted to see over 90.
 
GrowinBoy36 said:
Xgels are done. Should I just recheck in a month? Should I sell my TD andros or is there hope down the road?
Click to expand...
I would hold on to them unless your gonna be tempted and use them. But I think you completely missed what I was saying. The xgels could be the cause. But the cause could also be systemic inflammation that has nothing to do with xgels. Or it could be 20 other things.

I would take absolutely nothing for a few weeks and then go test again. And when I say nothing I mean nothing. You don't want anything to make it worse but you also don't want to take anything that might make it better because then you're not going to know anything.
 
Ok awesome, thanks so much man. I'll go rogue and take zilch for a few weeks and get bloods again. And I'll get a c reactive score as well and see where we are at then. Thanks again man truly appreciated.
 
Can you post your bloodwork if you don't mind? Maybe there's something else on there that might draw clues to the problem. Also, what are the doctor say about that number? I'd imagine he or she was concerned
 
Smont said:
Can you post your bloodwork if you don't mind? Maybe there's something else on there that might draw clues to the problem. Also, what are the doctor say about that number? I'd imagine he or she was concerned
Click to expand...
I'll post them now. The nurse was only concerned about the thyroid. I asked about the lower eGFR and she said it's a little low but not to worry until it's 60. I'm like na I'll worry a little now thanks lol
 
GrowinBoy36 said:
I'll post them now. The nurse was only concerned about the thyroid. I asked about the lower eGFR and she said it's a little low but not to worry until it's 60. I'm like na I'll worry a little now thanks lol
Click to expand...
Ya, let's not worry until it turns into serious problem so we can pump you full of expensive meds
 
madmuscle24 said:
What’s the deal with 130 total test being considered in range? F*** that ****!
Click to expand...

Yea that's super low. I've typically seen it at 250ish at the low end of the range on charts. Never 130 though.
 
Hi,
I would suggest to check how the egfr was calculated. Normally labs use very basic calculation that do not include things like your weight. It was in my case and its extremely important for trained people. The result can be totally different without details.

Edit: if you train hard than creatinine is above range and with basic calc you get low egfr. To measure it properly you need to stat away from training, wait few days, no supps(like creatine as well) and than make a check. Than put the data to the detail calculation that include things like weight.
 
GrowinBoy36 said:
Xgels are done. Should I just recheck in a month? Should I sell my TD andros or is there hope down the road?
Click to expand...
When was your blood drawn? Did you train leading up to the blood draw? I'm a diabetic and my doc is always looking at my kidneys, I usually stop training about 5 days before the blood draw and things look great. Think scheduled week off! I know when my draws are going to be so I take a break from training around that time.

I had a situation when I was first diagnosed where my egfr was 75. I trained up to the blood draw, this will give a false egfr due to the elevated creatinine from the muscle damage from training. We did a cystatin c test and all is well just for confirmation.

Hope this helps a bit.
 
Blug said:
Hi,
I would suggest to check how the egfr was calculated. Normally labs use very basic calculation that do not include things like your weight. It was in my case and its extremely important for trained people. The result can be totally different without details.

Edit: if you train hard than creatinine is above range and with basic calc you get low egfr. To measure it properly you need to stat away from training, wait few days, no supps(like creatine as well) and than make a check. Than put the data to the detail calculation that include things like weight.
Click to expand...
Exactly!
 
jmero2 said:
When was your blood drawn? Did you train leading up to the blood draw? I'm a diabetic and my doc is always looking at my kidneys, I usually stop training about 5 days before the blood draw and things look great. Think scheduled week off! I know when my draws are going to be so I take a break from training around that time.

I had a situation when I was first diagnosed where my egfr was 75. I trained up to the blood draw, this will give a false egfr due to the elevated creatinine from the muscle damage from training. We did a cystatin c test and all is well just for confirmation.

Hope this helps a bit.
Click to expand...
It was drawn at 4pm. I wasn't really expecting it to be drawn that same day. I trained very hard leading up to the draw like normal.

But ok yes that does make me feel a bit better.

They want to check me again in 3 months but I think I'll stop training like you suggest and just go back in sooner for another. Ill tell them I can't stop thinking about it lol

And I won't take any 5 hour energies for a few days and see if that isn't the cause of the elevated b12.
 
Thanks so much for the replies fellas. Really helps out. I prefer to learn from people with real experiences and knowledge compared to someone with an agenda.
 
Now if I could find consistent reports that high ass b12 in supplements can cause high b12 In blood. Of course I find articles saying such is true and some saying it's not possible because it's water soluble. Some saying worse.

Only thing to do is be 100% clean and dont train for a week then see what results are. Go from there. Results to come.
 
madmuscle24 said:
What’s the deal with 130 total test being considered in range? F*** that ****!
Click to expand...
LeanEngineer said:
Yea that's super low. I've typically seen it at 250ish at the low end of the range on charts. Never 130 though.
Click to expand...

The normal reference range can vary by the lab and testing methodology.

I have an endocrinological condition and have to be hormone panels done every 6 to 8 weeks. My doctors have intentionally had my tests done at different labs and with different methodologies just to see what the discrepancies would be.
 
GrowinBoy36 said:
Now if I could find consistent reports that high ass b12 in supplements can cause high b12 In blood. Of course I find articles saying such is true and some saying it's not possible because it's water soluble. Some saying worse.

Only thing to do is be 100% clean and dont train for a week then see what results are. Go from there. Results to come.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about your B12 numbers if it were me because that number wasn't super high and it wouldn't be a concern for me unless it continued to be high on follow up bloodwork.

I don't mean this to scare you, please don't be, but I'd be much more concerned about your Vitamin D being low than about your B12 being high.

My suggestion there would be to get NOW Foods Vitamin D - I take the 5,000 IU and take one softgel daily. There reference range is 30 to 80 but most doctors that are well versed in this want to see a person be in the 50 to 70 range. When/if you get to that range, then I would cut my dosage down to their 2,000 IU softgels.

^^^ For reference, I've struggled with chronically low Vitamin D levels and wound up having to see a specialist on the subject - that's why I'm being so specific is just sharing what they've shared with me.
 
Blug said:
Hi,
I would suggest to check how the egfr was calculated. Normally labs use very basic calculation that do not include things like your weight. It was in my case and its extremely important for trained people. The result can be totally different without details.

Edit: if you train hard than creatinine is above range and with basic calc you get low egfr. To measure it properly you need to stat away from training, wait few days, no supps(like creatine as well) and than make a check. Than put the data to the detail calculation that include things like weight.
Click to expand...

Very good post and I agree - the # is likely related to heavy training and the way it was calculated.
 
GrowinBoy36 said:
It was drawn at 4pm. I wasn't really expecting it to be drawn that same day. I trained very hard leading up to the draw like normal.

But ok yes that does make me feel a bit better.

They want to check me again in 3 months but I think I'll stop training like you suggest and just go back in sooner for another. Ill tell them I can't stop thinking about it lol

And I won't take any 5 hour energies for a few days and see if that isn't the cause of the elevated b12.
Click to expand...

I think that your # is most likely related to heavy training leading up to the blood draw. I don't see any other numbers that would be concerning or lead me to think there would be a problem or cause for concern. The reason that your physician didn't seem concerned was probably because they could tell you're athletic and figured this was why it was down and also bc it would generally have to show down in follow up blood work before they would be concerned.

If you're very concerned about it, I would go and have follow up bloodwork done in 4 to 6 weeks.

Unrelated to the ongoing discussion in the thread but you mentioned your thyroid; if I were you I would request that they check reverse T3 as well. That is one thyroid test that most doctors don't do but is very important.
 
sns8778 said:
I think that your # is most likely related to heavy training leading up to the blood draw. I don't see any other numbers that would be concerning or lead me to think there would be a problem or cause for concern. The reason that your physician didn't seem concerned was probably because they could tell you're athletic and figured this was why it was down and also bc it would generally have to show down in follow up blood work before they would be concerned.

If you're very concerned about it, I would go and have follow up bloodwork done in 4 to 6 weeks.

Unrelated to the ongoing discussion in the thread but you mentioned your thyroid; if I were you I would request that they check reverse T3 as well. That is one thyroid test that most doctors don't do but is very important.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for the detailed responses. I will indeed take your advice about the low vitamin d. Very relieving to see a lot of similar advice. I've recently started supplementing with now vitamin d 5000.

Will get everything checked again after a bit and add reverse t3.
 
GrowinBoy36 said:
I've recently started supplementing with now vitamin d 5000.
Click to expand...

That should help. I've been supplementing it daily for about 2 years + now and won't go back!
 
GrowinBoy36 said:
Thanks so much for the detailed responses. I will indeed take your advice about the low vitamin d. Very relieving to see a lot of similar advice. I've recently started supplementing with now vitamin d 5000.

Will get everything checked again after a bit and add reverse t3.
Click to expand...

Just go give you an idea for reference to hopefully alleviate your worries about B12 even more, I had one set of bloodwork that showed by B6 levels over 3x the normal limit and 6 weeks later it tested in the mid-range of normal.

NOW is the way to go on Vitamin D in my opinion. As someone that has worked in the industry for many years, I view NOW's quality control as second to none and they are my personal go to for my staple supplements.

I don't want to derail your thread by going into super fine details about bloodwork, but if you want to pm me, I'll be glad to give you my contact information and I'm glad to help or answer any questions.

Unfortunately for me, but I try to use my situation to be helpful to others - I have an endocrinology condition and an autoimmune condition that both require frequent bloodwork and I have to see multiple specialists for these issues, so I'm always glad to help people in any way that I can. One of the ways that I try to view my situation to help myself stay positive about it is hoping that I can learn from what I'm going through to help others.

I'm glad to answer questions in or help out in threads, but I also know that sometimes people don't like to discuss things like this publicly so I'm always open to helping privately as well.
 
sns8778 said:
I view NOW's quality control as second to none and they are my personal go to for my staple supplements
Click to expand...

Would definitely second this. In terms of quality and price they are hard to beat for staple supps!
 
LeanEngineer said:
Would definitely second this. In terms of quality and price they are hard to beat for staple supps!
Click to expand...

I remember hearing years ago that they were like one of three companies in the US that had machines that can detect contaminants to parts per billion. The other two were pharmaceuticals. They used to have better testing and quality control than the majority of drug manufacturers. Not sure if that’s true anymore, but they’re on top of their game.
 
After much research and deliberation I've decided to recheck eGFR after a week of non training and a week off of all supps.

That being said, I'm confident in your guys research and mine lining up. I've decided to start the Andros today. Will be running 150 TD 1Andro, 200 TD 4Andro, and 900 oral epiandro. TDs from IML. Oral from CEL. Also cycle assist from CEL.

If bloodwork comes back that I'm messed up I'll stop and adjust gamelan. If it comes back fine, we continue the run for 8 weeks. Followed by standard serm Tamox 20 20 10 10. Plus Aromasin on hand if necessary.

Thanks for everything bros, and I'll update how the run goes and if any breaking news comes of the bloods recheck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top