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My take on IGF-1

thanks Grunt...

lol @ the guy taking 400 mcg, must be a rich dude. at least you'd realize that the solution you paid loads of cash for will run out in a week and notice somehting is wrong, but hey some people have the $$$$
 
Grunt76 said:
The blood doesn't contain that much sugar usually. And IGF-1 PUSHES sugar into muscles, meaning that this action is not necessarily limited by the normal ability for a given muscle to store glycogen. There are a number of ways to induce glycogen hypersaturation and IGF-1 seems to be one of them. I have just today exchanged PM's with one guy who, mismeasuring his IGF-1, was taking 400mcg while thinking he was doing only 40mcg. I have yet to have him describe the effects and I am eagerly awaiting that.
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Do I know this person? :D
 
Grunt - Do you think pegMGF would be better utilized with IGF while cutting or during P.C.T.? I have a friend who is running a cutting cycle (with gear), and he has enough IGF-1 to use both on-cycle and during P.C.T (using your E3D PWO protocol). But he only has 1mg pegMGF. Should he use the pegMGF on-cycle while cutting or save it for P.C.T.? Thanks.
 
Ubiquitous said:
Do I know this person? :D
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He didn't say. I will throw the snuggle bear club password at him and verify.

ryano said:
err ..grunt do you have email?
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No, is that a disease??? [email protected]

TeamSavage said:
Grunt - Do you think pegMGF would be better utilized with IGF while cutting or during P.C.T.? I have a friend who is running a cutting cycle (with gear), and he has enough IGF-1 to use both on-cycle and during P.C.T (using your E3D PWO protocol). But he only has 1mg pegMGF. Should he use the pegMGF on-cycle while cutting or save it for P.C.T.? Thanks.
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On cycle while cutting. He should get more too. :)
 
Grunt76 said:
Not any worse than injectable, probably better.
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This is the funniest response ever ! :icon_lol:

Grrrrrunt, now that it has been several weeks since your fingers have been doing the walking and you had all of that quality time into your quads, how has this new pegMGF/IGF1-R3 panned out for you ? Are you in the mood to share with us some of your results during this recovery/reconditioning time ?

:bb:
 
Hardgain said:
This is the funniest response ever ! :icon_lol:

Grrrrrunt, now that it has been several weeks since your fingers have been doing the walking and you had all of that quality time into your quads, how has this new pegMGF/IGF1-R3 panned out for you ? Are you in the mood to share with us some of your results during this recovery/reconditioning time ?

:bb:
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Actually I only got to start IGF-1 very late into my healing process, contrarily to what my supplier had implied when I placed my order only a day or two before breaking my bones. So I did not see much out of it in terms of direct healing but the pain from the broken bones vanished quickly upon starting the IGF-1. That's all I got. Oh, yes, I have something more: pMGF did not seem to help at all with the bone pain.
 
question: as far as I see people are using insulin pins for injecting IGF and MGF. Do insulin pins only come in half-inch? Those are the only ones I could see around. Is half an inch deep enough? Do you ever need to use longer pins to get deeper into the muscle? For quads, for example, I think half an inch wouldn't be enough but this is just a wild quess...

Thanks
 
Sub7 said:
question: as far as I see people are using insulin pins for injecting IGF and MGF. Do insulin pins only come in half-inch? Those are the only ones I could see around. Is half an inch deep enough? Do you ever need to use longer pins to get deeper into the muscle? For quads, for example, I think half an inch wouldn't be enough but this is just a wild quess...

Thanks
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half an inch is sufficient for most sites, unless you're a fat ass like Grunt and his crew. :D

How much fat do you carry on your quads? I would hope not much.
 
Ubiquitous said:
half an inch is sufficient for most sites, unless you're a fat ass like Grunt and his crew. :D

How much fat do you carry on your quads? I would hope not much.
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I may be fat, but I still get plenty of snuggling. Plus, the ½" are quite long enough to hit my quads... :)
 
Actually quads are my leanest bodypart and I am under 12% bf. I was commenting on 1/2 inch pins because I thought that ideally you would want to inject right into the middle of the muscle (equal distance from the bone and skin) and half an inch wouldn't do this. But, if the experienced guys say 1/2 inch is good enough that is sufficient for me
 
Sub7 said:
Actually quads are my leanest bodypart and I am under 12% bf. I was commenting on 1/2 inch pins because I thought that ideally you would want to inject right into the middle of the muscle (equal distance from the bone and skin) and half an inch wouldn't do this. But, if the experienced guys say 1/2 inch is good enough that is sufficient for me
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There may be a point to using 1" needles in the quads, just so as to hit different fibers on the "first pass"...
 
hey grunt iam going to compete this year and my shoulders is really my weak side.
Where and how you you think i will lay it up. Iam going on the igf-1 on 3 weeks maybe mgf with it to
what you think of this
the day a training shoulders a pin the igf-1 in some place in the shoulders
then the day a training arms (arms is my best muscle group dont need more arms at all) I do side lateras for the shoulder pretty hard 20 minutes of he end of the workout after the arms then pin igf-1 into the side of the shoulders .
do you think its a smart way then i vill priotat my shoulders ? or how had you done ?
 
Arutkaf said:
hey grunt iam going to compete this year and my shoulders is really my weak side.
Where and how you you think i will lay it up. Iam going on the igf-1 on 3 weeks maybe mgf with it to
what you think of this
the day a training shoulders a pin the igf-1 in some place in the shoulders
then the day a training arms (arms is my best muscle group dont need more arms at all) I do side lateras for the shoulder pretty hard 20 minutes of he end of the workout after the arms then pin igf-1 into the side of the shoulders .
do you think its a smart way then i vill priotat my shoulders ? or how had you done ?
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Yes that is a good way to prioritize your shoulders. You could also train your rear delts with back and pin your rear delts with IGF-1 at the end of the workout. I actually do that sometimes. It is one of the more difficult spots to reach but it is doable.

If you do MGF go with the Pegylated. Use it as I have described above and use the IGF as described here. That will have your shoulders catching up nicely. Update in a couple months allright?
 
thanks bro very much! has not realy understood how iam going to do with the peg- mgf. I cant take that on the same days then a take igf-1? but I most take it on training days and injecting in my shoulders after training shoulders for best results?

Grunt76 said:
Yes that is a good way to prioritize your shoulders. You could also train your rear delts with back and pin your rear delts with IGF-1 at the end of the workout. I actually do that sometimes. It is one of the more difficult spots to reach but it is doable.

If you do MGF go with the Pegylated. Use it as I have described above and use the IGF as described here. That will have your shoulders catching up nicely. Update in a couple months allright?
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Arutkaf said:
thanks bro very much! has not realy understood how iam going to do with the peg- mgf. I cant take that on the same days then a take igf-1? but I most take it on training days and injecting in my shoulders after training shoulders for best results?
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Pegylated MGF must be taken at least 12hours apart from any IGF-1. It does not matter if it is injected after the workout, before, or on a rest day. Just make sure that you use IGF-1 postworkout 12-30 hours after pinning the pMGF for best results.
 
OK Gentlemen,

I have a few questions on how to prepare the solutions. They may sound excessively cautious, but this stuff costs $$$ and I think we should all make sure we get the most out of it.

When you get the IGf powder and the Acetic Acid solution, you are not supposed to squirt the AA on the IGF powder, right? Since IGF is a fragile molecule, the AA must be dripped on it gently, or so I hear. After you do that, chances are you will not have obtained a uniform/homogenous solution. Is it ok to either shake the bottle or to mix the solution with the tip of a sterile needle? I believe you have to do this and do this a bit hard or the solution you obtain will just not be uniform. I may be exxagerating but unless there is some vigorous mixing going on, I believe you will end up injecting 100 mcg one day and 10 mcg the next even when using the same volume...

Once the solution is mixed, is it OK to draw up everything in syringes, which means the last syringes will have their turn come up in 6-8 weeks. Ie. is the final IGF solution as stable in a plastic syringe as it would be in a glass bottle?

Also, how about MGF? I believe MGF is not as fragile a solution as IGF but nevertheless, does one have to take care of the same issues with MGF?

Finally, I know it has been discussed and I am sorry to ask again but which has to be refrigrated after reconstitution? IGF, MGF or neither? (It was said that IGF+AA is stable at 98 degrees for a year but I wanted to make sure)

Thanks
 
i have a question regarding pre and post pinning. Lets say you pin your legs right before you work them. Would you not still get the benefits of site injections doing it that way the same as doing it post workout if you were able to hit the muscle group within say 5 mins??
 
skull said:
can IGFLR3 and PGF2A be used together at the same time[in the same injection?]
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Taking the dive and inj. Dinoprost or is it Lutalyse? Dinoprost needs sterile solution, LR3-IGF-1 needs AA so I don't think you can use the two in the same injection.

I've got my own opinion but what is it you're planning?
 
Sub7 said:
OK Gentlemen,

I have a few questions on how to prepare the solutions. They may sound excessively cautious, but this stuff costs $$$ and I think we should all make sure we get the most out of it.

When you get the IGf powder and the Acetic Acid solution, you are not supposed to squirt the AA on the IGF powder, right? Since IGF is a fragile molecule, the AA must be dripped on it gently, or so I hear. After you do that, chances are you will not have obtained a uniform/homogenous solution. Is it ok to either shake the bottle or to mix the solution with the tip of a sterile needle? I believe you have to do this and do this a bit hard or the solution you obtain will just not be uniform. I may be exxagerating but unless there is some vigorous mixing going on, I believe you will end up injecting 100 mcg one day and 10 mcg the next even when using the same volume...

Once the solution is mixed, is it OK to draw up everything in syringes, which means the last syringes will have their turn come up in 6-8 weeks. Ie. is the final IGF solution as stable in a plastic syringe as it would be in a glass bottle?

Also, how about MGF? I believe MGF is not as fragile a solution as IGF but nevertheless, does one have to take care of the same issues with MGF?

Finally, I know it has been discussed and I am sorry to ask again but which has to be refrigrated after reconstitution? IGF, MGF or neither? (It was said that IGF+AA is stable at 98 degrees for a year but I wanted to make sure)

Thanks
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Don't shake the bottle of IGF-1. If it is clear, it is homogeneous, no worries. If it isn't after gently running 1cc of 100mM (0.6% AA) down the side of the vial to the powder, let it sit 5-10 minutes. Then it will turn clear. And it will be fully homogeneous. No needle, no shaking. GENTLY swirling it around in the vial in circular motion with the vial held upright is the most you CAN do without degrading it and the most you should ever need to do.

Leave the solution in the vials. Air pressure and temperature changes can discharge syringes. True.

Treat MGF the same as IGF-1 and you will be fine. Just reconstitute with BW not AA. Both should be refrigerated for best results.
 
jonesboy said:
i have a question regarding pre and post pinning. Lets say you pin your legs right before you work them. Would you not still get the benefits of site injections doing it that way the same as doing it post workout if you were able to hit the muscle group within say 5 mins??
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Maybe, maybe not. But the surest thing is that you will likely go hypoglycemic during your workout and be unable to train. Otherwise you need to pin it before your pre-workout meal, which is really not close to your workout time. Moreover, many report painful pumps by doing this, pumps that prevent fully working the muscle.
 
Ziricote said:
Taking the dive and inj. Dinoprost or is it Lutalyse? Dinoprost needs sterile solution, LR3-IGF-1 needs AA so I don't think you can use the two in the same injection.

I've got my own opinion but what is it you're planning?
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Dinoprost Tromethamine == Lutalyse

Since they are both water based you could mix them in one syringe, yes.
 
Grunt76 said:
Dinoprost Tromethamine == Lutalyse

Since they are both water based you could mix them in one syringe, yes.
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I was wondering if he had the salt or the branded Lutalyse. I know they're the same. Thanks for correcting me.
 
Ziricote said:
I was wondering if he had the salt or the branded Lutalyse. I know they're the same. Thanks for correcting me.
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Yes the vet brand LUTALYSE--Ive read you start your way up from 1mg[is this correct]? Any how theres 5mg in 1ml so in a 0.3 slin pin how many clicks =1ml?
 
Grunt76 said:
Maybe, maybe not. But the surest thing is that you will likely go hypoglycemic during your workout and be unable to train. Otherwise you need to pin it before your pre-workout meal, which is really not close to your workout time. Moreover, many report painful pumps by doing this, pumps that prevent fully working the muscle.
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I pinned pre workout 40mcgs and went hypo and had to stop training and drink my trusty gotorade.
 
skull said:
Yes the vet brand LUTALYSE--Ive read you start your way up from 1mg[is this correct]? Any how theres 5mg in 1ml so in a 0.3 slin pin how many clicks =1ml?
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Uh, what I've heard is start from 0.25mg. That would be 5iu on a slin pin. Probably you can do 10iu split bilateral.
 
I have read the whole thread, great info Grunt.

I have a question for you Grunt, or anyone else who may be able to answer it.

If the AA causes muscle necrosis, would this facilitate new muscle growth with the administration of a growth factor such as IGF-1?

I have been on IGF-1 for a week now, i have been shooting with straight AA usually, sometimes with AA and bac water, all i can say is it burns with both, just less with bac water, anyway my AA is 9% bac water i think.

I must say i love IGF-1, amazing stuff.
 
sikboy said:
I have read the whole thread, great info Grunt.

I have a question for you Grunt, or anyone else who may be able to answer it.

If the AA causes muscle necrosis, would this facilitate new muscle growth with the administration of a growth factor such as IGF-1?

I have been on IGF-1 for a week now, i have been shooting with straight AA usually, sometimes with AA and bac water, all i can say is it burns with both, just less with bac water, anyway my AA is 9% bac water i think.

I must say i love IGF-1, amazing stuff.
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Burns less the slower you shoot it in Sikboy

<3 AcctGuy
 
sikboy said:
I have read the whole thread, great info Grunt.

I have a question for you Grunt, or anyone else who may be able to answer it.

If the AA causes muscle necrosis, would this facilitate new muscle growth with the administration of a growth factor such as IGF-1?

I have been on IGF-1 for a week now, i have been shooting with straight AA usually, sometimes with AA and bac water, all i can say is it burns with both, just less with bac water, anyway my AA is 9% bac water i think.

I must say i love IGF-1, amazing stuff.
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There is nothing at all positive about muscle tissue necrosis even with whatever amount of IGF-1 you inject.
 
Grunt76 said:
That is utterly unknown.
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Regarding IGF-1 and hyperlasia, do you think IGF-1 causes true hyperlasia? From everything I have read it does, but there are ppl that say it does not, im interested to hear what you have to say on the matter, I value your opinion a great deal.

Also, there are ppl that say IGF-1 is purely systematic, I disagree, from my experience and from the research I have done on IGF-1 it can cause both localized and systematic.

I injected 80 mcg bi lat after a chest workout, then 40 mcg eod bi lat in the chest.

I have been on IGF-1 since last Tuesday and can see a difference in my arm size, thighs, back, shoulders, but he main difference is in the chest, so it seems to me UGF-1 can work both systematically and locally.

Sorry to fire so many questions at ya, im just trying to learn.
 
In my research I stumbled upon a really good read by Dr. Jose Antonio, Ph.D., that sheds unequivocal evidence on the subject.

Here: Invalid Link Removed
 
Grunt76 said:
In my research I stumbled upon a really good read by Dr. Jose Antonio, Ph.D., that sheds unequivocal evidence on the subject.

Here: Invalid Link Removed
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Great info again, thanks mate.

I would like to mention something that is quite strange, my left tricep was very sore, I could not bend my arm it was that sore, I looked at it today and it is significantly larger, it is not inflamed or red and I have not trained the tris or injected into them in around a week or more.

Also my right tricep is a little sore, as well as my calves and now quads.

Im dumb founded here, what is happening?
 
Is everyone here in favor of dilluting 1 mg of IGF with 1 ml of AA solution? I actually have 2 ml of AA solution for 1 mg of IGF. However, if I use 2 ml of AA, I am going to have to inject twice as much AA into the muscle for the same amount of IGF. I thought that would be good as it would help with the dosing (can dose the solution more precisely) but after reading about necrosis, i am not so sure it is worth it.

Thoughts?
 
Sub7 said:
Is everyone here in favor of dilluting 1 mg of IGF with 1 ml of AA solution? I actually have 2 ml of AA solution for 1 mg of IGF. However, if I use 2 ml of AA, I am going to have to inject twice as much AA into the muscle for the same amount of IGF. I thought that would be good as it would help with the dosing (can dose the solution more precisely) but after reading about necrosis, i am not so sure it is worth it.

Thoughts?
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I agree that it makes dosing easier, but getting smaller syringes with 1000mcg/ml gives you equal ability to measure as 1cc syringes with 500mcg/ml. So I agree, it is not worth it.
 
sikboy said:
Just like to say i put on 10 lean lbs in 11 days on this stuff.

IMO, its the ultimate compound.
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Other people have reported similar results... what are those 10 pounds? They cannot be all muscle, can they? Is most of it intramuscular CHO+water retention?

Sikboy, for the record; how many mcg in total are you using per week (all bodyparts combined)?

Thanks
 
sikboy said:
Just like to say i put on 10 lean lbs in 11 days on this stuff.

IMO, its the ultimate compound.
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Huh? I've ran IGF over 10 times so far and have never had results like that... are you using the same scale? Weighing in at the same time of day, without clothes on? I think that is overblown, no offense. If anything I recomp with IGF.
 
Ubiquitous said:
Huh? I've ran IGF over 10 times so far and have never had results like that... are you using the same scale? Weighing in at the same time of day, without clothes on? I think that is overblown, no offense. If anything I recomp with IGF.
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I have spent several hours on a few boards and it looks like
(unscientific tally)

- 20% of users see no results from IGF
- 60% of people see some growth but mainly leaning out
- 20% of people see veru substantial mass gains

I first thought the bottom category was just making it up but go to other major boards and you will see that some people are blowing up on IGF. I don't know what is going on and I am wondering myself...
(For the record: I have not seen Sikboy's results myself, I don't know him, nor am I Sikboy using a different username LOL. It is just that I have seen people blow up on IGF on many threads...)
 
sikboy said:
Just like to say i put on 10 lean lbs in 11 days on this stuff.

IMO, its the ultimate compound.
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I too have seen similar results, but I was running anavar as well; not to mention it was in a months time. I cant say that I've heard of anyone getting these kind of results from IGF alone. I'm doubtful.

Sprt
 
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