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My take on IGF-1

RedwolfWV said:
If they include it, then they are encouraging you to reconstitute it and use it. That was the reason given for no longer carrying AA.
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Well they did have their business turned upside down by the feds so maybe that is something they agreed to as a condition to resuming their business.

It seems they sell no solvents such as BA & BB now so who knows...

But I wonder what you would use to reconstitute IGF-1 if you were conducting non-human experiments? I would imagine it would be the same so why not include the AA? Right now I'm just sprinkling a little on my hamster every other day and observing his behavior. :fool2:
 
what is the best way to run pegmgf/igf now a day's. there is so many different thoughts.
i was thinking this way from what ive been reading from THE GAMES info.

sunday - off day, 100mcg of pegmgf in each bicep.
monday- workout bi/tri /PWO 20mcg of igf in each bi.
tuesday-workout shoulders/pwo20mcg igf in each delt
wed- off day, 100mcg pegmgf in each chest muscle.
thur- workout chest/pwo20mcg igf in each pec.
fri- workout back/pwo 25mcg igf in each lat
sat- legs
sun- off day, 100mcg pegmgf in each delt
mon- workout shoulders/pwo 20mcg igf in each delt.
etc...
etc...

but then a lot of people say eod with igf, so maybe this way.

sunday-off day,100mcg pegmgf in each bicep
monday- workout legs
tuesday-workout bi/tri /pwo igf 20mcg in each bi
wed-off day,100mcg pegmgf in each chest muscle
thurs-workout chest/pwo igf 20mcg in each chest
friday- workout shoulders
sat- workout back/pwo igf 25mcg in each lat
sunday- off day, pegmgf 100mcg
 
LMAO

It was an edit. I said something that was rude about The Game, but then decided to retract it due to my growing maturity. :D
 
Another one of my stupid questions, I know I've seen it before on this thread but it's such a large thread I can't find it again. But can someone (anyone) explain to me IM and SQ pinning? I know what they stand for but don't know how to derive the two.
 
tshaw024 said:
Another one of my stupid questions, I know I've seen it before on this thread but it's such a large thread I can't find it again. But can someone (anyone) explain to me IM and SQ pinning? I know what they stand for but don't know how to derive the two.
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Invalid Link Removed
 
CryingEmo said:
Any new news grunt?

40mcg E3D still the best protocol?

10mcg ED good?


Indespensible during post cycle therapy, agree?
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Both those are good. Most seem to get most results by pinning on workout days.

And yes, this stuff rawks all kinds of greatness in PCT.
 
Ok so I'm planning on using LR3 in my PCT. I plan on working out 3 days a week and pinning PWO@40mcg. That sound good?

I know you're supposed to pin the muscle worked, but what if one mainly incooperates heavy compound lifts? I'm guessing the duh answer here is the main muscles worked? (ie squat-quads, bench- pecs). Would I be better off moving to a 4 day body split to focus on specific muscles to get a better localized effect? Or would the excess IGF-1 be soaked up by the additional muscles worked by the compound lifts?
 
My question is similiar..... if you pin the muscle worked PWO are the other muscles going to benefit as well or just the ones you pin?
 
From what I've gathered, any excess IGF-1 not soaked up by the local injected muscle will be picked up by other sites in the body with IGF-1 receptors.
 
Pretty sure 40mcg PWO is going to go systemic no matter what.
 
Xodus said:
Pretty sure 40mcg PWO is going to go systemic no matter what.
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Did you read the entire thread or will we have to repeat things infinitely within the thread?

I think the argument bottom-line at where there is mostly an agreement that SOME will go systemic but some will also be taken up directly by the muscle before going into the bloodstream.
 
Grunt76 said:
Did you read the entire thread or will we have to repeat things infinitely within the thread?

I think the argument bottom-line at where there is mostly an agreement that SOME will go systemic but some will also be taken up directly by the muscle before going into the bloodstream.
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I did read the entire thread, multiple times actually. It was sort of a tongue and cheek response as there is no way 40mcg will be local only.
 
Grunt, for PCT do you think the better option would be...

40mcg ED for 25 days

or

40mcg 3x a week for 8 weeks

I'm sorry if this has been asked in this thread, I read through it in it's entirety some time ago but it's been a while.
 
Grunt76 said:
Did you read the entire thread or will we have to repeat things infinitely within the thread?
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Don't be such a d1ck...especially to Xodus. He is one of the nicest guys on here and far from naive.

Grunt76 said:
I think the argument bottom-line at where there is mostly an agreement that SOME will go systemic but some will also be taken up directly by the muscle before going into the bloodstream.
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You started this thread and became a self-proclaimed expert many moons ago. There wasn't then and there isn't now indisputable proof that IGF-1 is directly responsible for muscular hyperplasia in humans. As for localized growth effects that remains wishful thinking...glycogen pumps & inflammation from the acid is all.

You aren't going to get any new muscle tissue in the site you inject in...it is the insulin-like propeties of IGF-1 that are important.
 
datBtrue said:
Don't be such a d1ck...especially to Xodus. He is one of the nicest guys on here and far from naive.



You started this thread and became a self-proclaimed expert many moons ago. There wasn't then and there isn't now indisputable proof that IGF-1 is directly responsible for muscular hyperplasia in humans. As for localized growth effects that remains wishful thinking...glycogen pumps & inflammation from the acid is all.

You aren't going to get any new muscle tissue in the site you inject in...it is the insulin-like propeties of IGF-1 that are important.
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You do realize that you have nothing to back up what you are saying, hopefully.
 
dat.... unless you have proof than your just another opinion. maybe you are the one that needs to start at the top and read the forum. grunt is just passing on his knowledge, i would be frustrated as well if lazy people repeatedly asked the same questions rather than read through the entire forum. those are the same lazy people that want the easy way out at the gym without putting the work in..... let me be the first to tell you, there is no such thing as the easy way out when it comes to getting bigger.
 
tshaw024 said:
dat.... unless you have proof than your just another opinion. maybe you are the one that needs to start at the top and read the forum. grunt is just passing on his knowledge, i would be frustrated as well if lazy people repeatedly asked the same questions rather than read through the entire forum. those are the same lazy people that want the easy way out at the gym without putting the work in..... let me be the first to tell you, there is no such thing as the easy way out when it comes to getting bigger.
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First off, I didn't ask the initial question, nor am I a lazy person and don't like the insinuation much, as I have put in countless hours of reading VARYING OPINIONS on IGF for months, but I was the one that got jumped on for whatever reason.

I suppose I could have just answered the question with 'Jesus, did you read the thread or do we have to repeat ourselves infinitely', but I did not, nor will I ever respond to the countless posts where that response could be used. ie Nolva dosing, etc.

I did NOT state that it goes systemic ONLY. I did NOT state that it is LOCAL only. Even if only SOME IGF goes systemic, it is STILL systemic. I am not disagreeing with muscles worked=receptor's primed for IGF binding, etc. But the question was regarding full body COMPOUND exercises and deciding where to pin IGF. If you shoot 40mcg bilaterally, all of it is not going to stay local, thereby it goes systemic and is viable for up to 72 hours and will hit receptors in other parts of your body that were worked.

I appreciate datBtrue for kind words, he is someone that can have a rational discussion, has a lot of experience/knowledge and I humbly respect his opinion.
 
tshaw024 said:
dat.... unless you have proof than your just another opinion. maybe you are the one that needs to start at the top and read the forum. grunt is just passing on his knowledge, i would be frustrated as well if lazy people repeatedly asked the same questions rather than read through the entire forum. those are the same lazy people that want the easy way out at the gym without putting the work in..... let me be the first to tell you, there is no such thing as the easy way out when it comes to getting bigger.
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lets not turn this into "one of those threads" because i feel this is one of the most valuable threads on this board. i understand where you are coming from tshaw, but at the same time, you don't realize that dat is the probably the furthest from the person you are describing in your post. i consider dat, grunt, and xodus to be three of the top members on this board who contribute quality posts with great knowledge in each and every single one of them. lets keep this thread on track.
 
Xodus said:
First off, I didn't ask the initial question, nor am I a lazy person and don't like the insinuation much, as I have put in countless hours of reading VARYING OPINIONS on IGF for months, but I was the one that got jumped on for whatever reason.

I suppose I could have just answered the question with 'Jesus, did you read the thread or do we have to repeat ourselves infinitely', but I did not, nor will I ever respond to the countless posts where that response could be used. ie Nolva dosing, etc.

I did NOT state that it goes systemic ONLY. I did NOT state that it is LOCAL only. Even if only SOME IGF goes systemic, it is STILL systemic. I am not disagreeing with muscles worked=receptor's primed for IGF binding, etc. But the question was regarding full body COMPOUND exercises and deciding where to pin IGF. If you shoot 40mcg bilaterally, all of it is not going to stay local, thereby it goes systemic and is viable for up to 72 hours and will hit receptors in other parts of your body that were worked.

I appreciate datBtrue for kind words, he is someone that can have a rational discussion, has a lot of experience/knowledge and I humbly respect his opinion.
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hmmm the idea of full body compound exercises and systematic use of igf is definitely intriguing. i'd like to hear more thoughts about this.
 
Xodus said:
First off, I didn't ask the initial question, nor am I a lazy person and don't like the insinuation much, as I have put in countless hours of reading VARYING OPINIONS on IGF for months, but I was the one that got jumped on for whatever reason.

I suppose I could have just answered the question with 'Jesus, did you read the thread or do we have to repeat ourselves infinitely', but I did not, nor will I ever respond to the countless posts where that response could be used. ie Nolva dosing, etc.

I did NOT state that it goes systemic ONLY. I did NOT state that it is LOCAL only. Even if only SOME IGF goes systemic, it is STILL systemic. I am not disagreeing with muscles worked=receptor's primed for IGF binding, etc. But the question was regarding full body COMPOUND exercises and deciding where to pin IGF. If you shoot 40mcg bilaterally, all of it is not going to stay local, thereby it goes systemic and is viable for up to 72 hours and will hit receptors in other parts of your body that were worked.

I appreciate datBtrue for kind words, he is someone that can have a rational discussion, has a lot of experience/knowledge and I humbly respect his opinion.
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If you look at the post which you quoted, it starts with "dat" which would be datbtrue. Unless you have 2 handles, the other one being datbtrue, that reply was not addressed to you.

And what's that about 72 hours? LR3 IGF-1 binds to receptors almost immediately. It clears the bloodstream VERY quickly.
 
Xodus said:
I did NOT state that it goes systemic ONLY. I did NOT state that it is LOCAL only. Even if only SOME IGF goes systemic, it is STILL systemic. I am not disagreeing with muscles worked=receptor's primed for IGF binding, etc. But the question was regarding full body COMPOUND exercises and deciding where to pin IGF. If you shoot 40mcg bilaterally, all of it is not going to stay local, thereby it goes systemic
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Thanks for the response X
 
Grunt76 said:
If you look at the post which you quoted, it starts with "dat" which would be datbtrue. Unless you have 2 handles, the other one being datbtrue, that reply was not addressed to you.

And what's that about 72 hours? LR3 IGF-1 binds to receptors almost immediately. It clears the bloodstream VERY quickly.
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While it was addressed to datBtrue, the other guy is defending your comment to me. I was clarifying my position to him.

tshaw024 said:
grunt is just passing on his knowledge, i would be frustrated as well if lazy people repeatedly asked the same questions rather than read through the entire forum.
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If you are frustrated at 'lazy people' and you directly quoted MY post, he is inferring that I am the lazy person and I was defending my position after you jumped on my sh!t.

Sorry, you are correct, half-life of IGF-1 LR3 is 6-10 hours. I'm not saying that is how long it takes to bind to receptors, but if all are 'local' receptors are filled, it is going to bounce around until it finds a free one (whether that is in your intestines or calves).
 
Xodus said:
Sorry, you are correct, half-life of IGF-1 LR3 is 6-10 hours. I'm not saying that is how long it takes to bind to receptors, but if all are 'local' receptors are filled, it is going to bounce around until it finds a free one (whether that is in your intestines or calves).
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That's why injecting 250mcg isn't a good idea. ;)
 
datBtrue said:
Don't be such a d1ck...especially to Xodus. He is one of the nicest guys on here and far from naive.



You started this thread and became a self-proclaimed expert many moons ago. There wasn't then and there isn't now indisputable proof that IGF-1 is directly responsible for muscular hyperplasia in humans. As for localized growth effects that remains wishful thinking...glycogen pumps & inflammation from the acid is all.

You aren't going to get any new muscle tissue in the site you inject in...it is the insulin-like propeties of IGF-1 that are important.
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Sorry all, not trying to make this one of "those" postings. But I still don't understand why datbtrue is saying you won't gain any hyperplasia from localized injections??? The results are out there, how do you explain the gains in strength and size people are getting from using only igf-1???
 
tshaw024 said:
Sorry all, not trying to make this one of "those" postings. But I still don't understand why datbtrue is saying you won't gain any hyperplasia from localized injections??? The results are out there, how do you explain the gains in strength and size people are getting from using only igf-1???
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Anecdotal evidence is just that...anecdotal. I would love to see any study that truly proved localized growth.
 
IGF-1 is good at shuttling carbs to the muscles. It can also make you hungry by rapidly lowering blood glucose levels. Get out your blood glucose monitor and measure the effect it has on blood sugar…you DO have the ability to directly observe this…in your own body.

IGF-1 is not alone in this regard…Insulin, IGF-1, R-Ala, Vanadyl Sulfate, all to some varying degree increase the shuttling of carbs to the muscles…some are more effective & selective then others. IGF-1 may have a selective advantage over Insulin.

The most outwardly observable effect of IGF-1 is that of blood glucose pumping…this is probably why so many users think IGF-1 is such a great drug. But please don’t confuse that effect with real muscle growth.

I like IGF-1…and I use it in small doses over long periods of time. I benefit from it when I diet. I benefit from it when I bulk.

I benefit from it when I am in PCT…in salmon it has been shown to increase Follicle-Stimulating Hormone…I don’t disregard animal studies…and think they have value…

And as part of an overall program that involves spot on nutrition, recovery and training IGF-1 is a tool I use to build a better body.

As for Grunt I did not mean to disparage him personally…although it is clear from the words I chose that I did…so for that I apologize.

Now having said that…do I believe that IGF-1 promotes localized growth…no (but neither do I believe test suspension (in water) does either).

Do I believe IGF-1 is directly responsible for muscular hyperplasia in humans…I should clarify...I do not believe that IGF-1 in the altered form presently being used by bodybuilders is capable…

As explained by bio-regent personnel at Gropep, once they altered IGF-1, it no longer possessed the same protein chain, and consequently muscle building properties of that of unaltered IGF-1 (rIGF-1 alternative nomenclature IGF-1 RH).

The available animal studies used rIGF-1 not the altered IGF-LR3. Gropep created the altered version LR3 for convenient lab use only. There will never be a study examining the direct effect of this altered version…and most certainly not in humans.

So for that we must rely on the cumulative reports from serious/ experienced trainers who have observed & experimented with the use of the altered version on their trainees. I have even spoken to one such trainer who used control subjects & relied on before and after hydrostatic body fat testing to conclude that there was no observable muscle mass gain from the use of IGF-1 LR3. By and large the trainers I have had communication w/ all seem to have the same low opinion of IGF-1 LR3 as a direct agent for muscle growth let alone hyperplasia.

Is any of this dispositive…NO!

It has now been several years that IGF-1 (altered version) has been used by the bodybuilding community…go ask those users who are capable of distinguishing what drug had what effect on their body composition what their thoughts are on this compound. Once you avoid those people & those board owners who had/have a tied interest (which may be as small as free product) to those that sell/sold the altered version you might be surprised…

…then again you might draw your own differing conclusion.

No big deal I still respect each of you and will consider your point of view in constantly reexaming my own…most of you are indeed more knowledgeable than I. In no way do I feel that what I have to say is anything more than just a guy posting his often inferior opinion.

I like to learn…and in fact over the years have been the beneficiary of Grunt’s research & posts across various boards. In fact I am interested in his take on IGF-II & its potential use in the bodybuilding community…because I have come to respect his mind.

Oh yes…and by-the-way…as TheSinner once pointed out to me I can be a d1ck sometimes…but it is too late for me to change my ways I’m afraid. :)
 
Respect bro.

One other thing that I think clouds the data on LR3 IGF-1 use among bodybuilders are the fakes and bad product. There have been more than a few instances of hCG or even GH sold as LR3.

All in all, I know that I have observed localized growth in myself as well as some others. But is that conclusive proof? To me it is, and to you, well, it may not be.

This is, after all, only the Internet.
 
The internet knows all Grunt. :D

Dat brought up something interesting though - IGF-2. The UG boards are saying 4x stronger then IGF-1....

Opinions on that? Havent done enough research to even have a clue what it is yet.
 
Is there any info on people useing igf1-lr3 sub q?
I know everything in this thread points twourds using it intramuscular, but I am curious to see if there has been people using it sub q and what thier results were.
 
ZIMM said:
Is there any info on people useing igf1-lr3 sub q?
I know everything in this thread points twourds using it intramuscular, but I am curious to see if there has been people using it sub q and what thier results were.
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im sure the results would be bigger guts all round.:rasp:

its just a big NONO as far as im concerned. its like playing russian roullete with your intestines but with 5 chambers of the barrel full and one empty.
 
ZIMM said:
Is there any info on people useing igf1-lr3 sub q?
I know everything in this thread points twourds using it intramuscular, but I am curious to see if there has been people using it sub q and what thier results were.
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The question is WHY on earth would you want to do that?

Why would anyone NOT choose which tissue they prefer regenerating? And if you need to go systemic you use GH, that way your tendons, cartilage, eyes and everything else get the regenerative drive.
 
Grunt76 said:
The question is WHY on earth would you want to do that?

Why would anyone NOT choose which tissue they prefer regenerating? And if you need to go systemic you use GH, that way your tendons, cartilage, eyes and everything else get the regenerative drive.
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ok,
Im currently in the "being a pussy" stage since I never have injected into the muscle!

What if you were using igf1-lr3 for full body muscle growth. Would you just hit every group of muscles over a several week period , then start from the the first days group and go through the complete cycle again over and over?

Do you have to inject every muscle group including abs,calves and forearms or will they still get good growth over time from a small ammount of igf1 going systematic?


zimm
 
ZIMM said:
ok,
Im currently in the "being a pussy" stage since I never have injected into the muscle!
zimm
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Get over it. The pins are tiny. You hardly feel them.
 
ZIMM said:
ok,
Im currently in the "being a pussy" stage since I never have injected into the muscle!

What if you were using igf1-lr3 for full body muscle growth. Would you just hit every group of muscles over a several week period , then start from the the first days group and go through the complete cycle again over and over?

Do you have to inject every muscle group including abs,calves and forearms or will they still get good growth over time from a small ammount of igf1 going systematic?


zimm
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inject your lagging bodyparts. i personally wouldnt inject abs as so near the gut and dont want to look pregnant.:p

but yes inject everywhere you want growth directly after training them. I try to be exact with this and it works.
e.g i go to the gym to train calves and quads.
I train my calves then go to toilet and inject them with 12.5mcg in each calf muscle.
then back into gym and train quads, then immediately back to the toilet and inject them both with 12.5mcg.
there possibly could be a systemic effect for other muscles you dont inject but as the gut has so many receptors it prob uptakes most of what isnt used by the muscles.
get some pegMGF to take along with the igf(not at same time) if you want systemic growth of non-injected muscles.
 
pumbertot said:
inject your lagging bodyparts. i personally wouldnt inject abs as so near the gut and dont want to look pregnant.:p

but yes inject everywhere you want growth directly after training them. I try to be exact with this and it works.
e.g i go to the gym to train calves and quads.
I train my calves then go to toilet and inject them with 12.5mcg in each calf muscle.
then back into gym and train quads, then immediately back to the toilet and inject them both with 12.5mcg.
there possibly could be a systemic effect for other muscles you dont inject but as the gut has so many receptors it prob uptakes most of what isnt used by the muscles.
get some pegMGF to take along with the igf(not at same time) if you want systemic growth of non-injected muscles.
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Do you inject E3D, E0D? ED? 40mcg E3D seemed a little on the low side for me. I'm thinkin 60-80mcg ED-EOD.
 
CryingEmo said:
Do you inject E3D, E0D? ED? 40mcg E3D seemed a little on the low side for me. I'm thinkin 60-80mcg ED-EOD.
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i was under the impression less is more with igf, especially if you don't realize the gains until further down the road. how do you know whats low and whats high really? i dont think anybody does when it comes to igf imho.
 
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