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My take on IGF-1

Patrick Arnold said:
there are known side effects with IGF-1. IMO these are amplified with longR3 because long R3 will not bind to endogeous binding proteins. these binding proteins serve to protect certain tissues from the actions of IGF-1 while simultaneously delivering IGF-1 to the necessary target tissues (where locally acting proteases will free up the IGF-1)

longR3-IGF-1 is IGF-1 running rampant in the body. This is troublesome

I think longR3 might be useful for connective tissue injuries (direct injection) but for other uses the risk to benefit ratio is too high
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when explained this way, longR3-IGF-1 IS scary regarding "unprotected" tissues throughout the body. Perhaps there is a "safer" way to get the desired effect by changing the number of naturally occuring proteases present in muscle to enhance the effect of the IGF-1 already present? Could the proteases present in muscle be the limiting factor in unlocking the process or has science determined the limiting factor is the amount of IGF-1 being produced?
 
I have an idea/question that I think might be useful for this "spill over" issue.

I do subscribe to Grunts idea about the local effects but also like to work 2-3 major parts per workout. I figure that if you hit say 3 major muscle then inject into one of them then the "spill over" must partially reach the other muscles worked... right??

My other concern is, MGF levels naturally spike after workout. If the body does this then their has to be a reason for it right? And MGF and IGF can't function at the same time, right? So aren't we kind of shooting ourselves in the foot? Just an idea...
 
KSman said:
How do we know this? A series of muscle biopsies starting just as lifting starts, then plotting to find the peak receptor expression and the time of drop off? I don't think that this has been done. How do we know that this is not web-lore? And I don't think that biopsied tissue would maintain its receptor state long enough to get whatever analytical work needed to measure receptor expression. You can't train muscle tissue in-vitro either.
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Well firstly it was done on rats not people, at least the series of biopsies. But the research I am talking about points to the receptor DNA being more present immediately after a workout but only for a short period of time. And then something else SUGGESTS that receptors are back to baseline in about 60 minutes, from uptake response. It has been a while since I read these, but I am reporting as faithfully as I can.

You on the other hand seem keen to criticize that this might be "web lore" yet seem equally unable to pop up pubmed and read a few hundred excerpts, just to see that they all meet up with what I am stating. Oh well, your loss.
 
justreading said:
I have an idea/question that I think might be useful for this "spill over" issue.

I do subscribe to Grunts idea about the local effects but also like to work 2-3 major parts per workout. I figure that if you hit say 3 major muscle then inject into one of them then the "spill over" must partially reach the other muscles worked... right??

My other concern is, MGF levels naturally spike after workout. If the body does this then their has to be a reason for it right? And MGF and IGF can't function at the same time, right? So aren't we kind of shooting ourselves in the foot? Just an idea...
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They can't function at the same time ON THE SAME CELL. We have many many many cells. Statistically, they work at the same time. Just not on any single cell. Where is the problem with that? I don't see one. We shouldn't be under the delusion that half our myoblasts in the worked muscle undergo hyperplasia or that half our myoblasts undergo fusion with a decent dose of LR3. So there really is no problem here.

Yes if you are supplementing pMGF and IGF, then it is more prudent, money-wise, to alternate, simply because of the expense. I simply don't see HALF the myoblasts doing any single thing together. To me that would imply gaining 20lbs of muscle per month, and regularly... :lol:
 
Grunt76 said:
They can't function at the same time ON THE SAME CELL. We have many many many cells. Statistically, they work at the same time. Just not on any single cell. Where is the problem with that? I don't see one. We shouldn't be under the delusion that half our myoblasts in the worked muscle undergo hyperplasia or that half our myoblasts undergo fusion with a decent dose of LR3. So there really is no problem here.

Yes if you are supplementing pMGF and IGF, then it is more prudent, money-wise, to alternate, simply because of the expense. I simply don't see HALF the myoblasts doing any single thing together. To me that would imply gaining 20lbs of muscle per month, and regularly... :lol:
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Good answer... Like I said it was just an idea and question, not some hypothesis
 
Grunt76 said:
They can't function at the same time ON THE SAME CELL. We have many many many cells. Statistically, they work at the same time. Just not on any single cell. Where is the problem with that? I don't see one. We shouldn't be under the delusion that half our myoblasts in the worked muscle undergo hyperplasia or that half our myoblasts undergo fusion with a decent dose of LR3. So there really is no problem here.

Yes if you are supplementing pMGF and IGF, then it is more prudent, money-wise, to alternate, simply because of the expense. I simply don't see HALF the myoblasts doing any single thing together. To me that would imply gaining 20lbs of muscle per month, and regularly... :lol:
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So running pMGF and IGF at the same time is more of a luxury if you have extra money.
 
b_delgros said:
So running pMGF and IGF at the same time is more of a luxury if you have extra money.
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Yeah, it should give extra results compared from running them consecutively, although these extra results will not be proportional to the extra expense, I am convinced.

But come to think of it, I know just the perfect subject for this experiment. Who wants to donate 5mg IGF an 20mg pMGF? :wave:
 
pistonpump said:
bump for an answer from Grunt. What type of bad experience or result did you get from your run with receptor grade igf1
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Someone said it. As in... "WHAT results?" I basically got nothing from it. No pump, no lowered glycemia, just feeling really weird. Tired but not the happy, endorphin-filled buzz of normal IGF, instead more like a slight hangover...
 
Grunt76 said:
Someone said it. As in... "WHAT results?" I basically got nothing from it. No pump, no lowered glycemia, just feeling really weird. Tired but not the happy, endorphin-filled buzz of normal IGF, instead more like a slight hangover...
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really? wow. ill have to look out for that, maybe it was your source?
 
pistonpump said:
really? wow. ill have to look out for that, maybe it was your source?
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The source was honest in that he was TOLD it was real receptor grade but of course there is never any way to test the stuff, so I kinda did that for him, with these results. Which may have prompted him to change his supplier, or not, I don't know.
 
Grunt76 said:
Someone said it. As in... "WHAT results?" I basically got nothing from it. No pump, no lowered glycemia, just feeling really weird. Tired but not the happy, endorphin-filled buzz of normal IGF, instead more like a slight hangover...
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That is the same experience I hade with my IGF which was also receptor grade. I feel I didn't getting anything from it, leaness, hypo, no pump. The source I guess was supposed to be good, they used to be a board sponsor. Maybe next time I will use media grade.
 
Thing is, true receptor grade is so much more expensive and rare, for the few benefits that it can have over media grade, that you have to think of the advantage for someone to sell ordinary media as receptor, or even fakes, etc...
 
Pre workout

Grunt, I think this has been said some where in the 24 pages of posts, but what happens if you pin pre-workout LR3 IGF-1?. Since it is active in the blood stream for awhile wouldn't it be there active when the receptors are ready?
 
HighRPM's said:
Grunt, I think this has been said some where in the 24 pages of posts, but what happens if you pin pre-workout LR3 IGF-1?. Since it is active in the blood stream for awhile wouldn't it be there active when the receptors are ready?
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you would most likely go hypo and possibly pass out.
 
pistonpump said:
you would most likely go hypo and possibly pass out.
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No thats not likely to happen. IGF-1 LR3 may be "insulin-like" but it ain't insulin. Feelings of hypo can arise for sure...especially on an empty stomach...but it takes very few carbs for the vast majority of users to make such feelings dissipate.
 
pistonpump said:
you would most likely go hypo and possibly pass out.
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I have had a tiny bit of hypo the first time I tried it, but never since As posted a glass of juice fixes that that, follwed with a meal. The hypo only comes if your a late eating a meal. You won't go into some kind of insulin shock with the stuff.

I also have been trying it pre-workout for a couple weeks and seems to be working the same. 50mcg 3 times a week.
 
HighRPM's said:
I have had a tiny bit of hypo the first time I tried it, but never since As posted a glass of juice fixes that that, follwed with a meal. The hypo only comes if your a late eating a meal. You won't go into some kind of insulin shock with the stuff.

I also have been trying it pre-workout for a couple weeks and seems to be working the same. 50mcg 3 times a week.
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Still, PistonPump is right. While you don't go into insulin shock from IGF-1, it does lower blood sugar substantially, and so does working out. IGF-1 induces a feeling of lethargy and relaxedness which is very counterproductive to a great workout. It simply doesn't go well with training. Just the hunger pangs themselves 20, 30 minutes after pinning it are probably enough to discourage the most determined athlete.

Try it, you will see what we mean.
 
Great post Grunt. I was wondering though how long the stuff stays potent after you mix the IGFLR# and the Bac.Water together. Was just wondering because in a very earlier post you mentioned that you take the pin and the BW and other stuff to the gym in a sunglass case. I would rather mix them all together in the slin then leave it in my car( it is about 50degrees here at night now or worst case 65 degrees, so is this okay to leave in the car or does it need to be refrigerated when mixed. How long basically do I have to inject it after it has been mixed. This would make it very convienient to walk out to the car about 20 ft away grab it and inject it in the bathroom at the gym. It will sit in the car for about an hour or so and 1 and 1/2 total time with travel to the gym. I was doing 100mcg (50mcg each side because of something someone else told me. They said that your size makes a difference on how much you can inject without gaining the enlargements in the belly and other places by the free floating. Is this true? After you article I have started to lean towards your theory of eod. I am 5'10" 230lbs maybe 8% probably a little less but just being conservative. My arms are 19 1/2 cold and my waist is 34 inches taped. My cheast is 54 inches. My neck is always around 19- 21 inches depending if I neglect it or not and waist loss. This should hopefully give you a picture in your head of my situation. I have a lot of mass basically so I would like to know along with the other stuff I wrote if the size matters according to dosage amount. I was doing it everyday but in the different area that I worked that day. IS it okay if you hit a muscle everyday and inject or is it better to still do eod injections. I have to work out everyday at this stage since I have been training so long that my muscle maturity is pretty good and I recover very fast. I hope all this makes sense I know what I am trying to convey I just hope it translated well to you. Please if possible answer the few questions. Thanks.
 
hardlifter said:
Great post Grunt. I was wondering though how long the stuff stays potent after you mix the IGFLR# and the Bac.Water together. Was just wondering because in a very earlier post you mentioned that you take the pin and the BW and other stuff to the gym in a sunglass case. I would rather mix them all together in the slin then leave it in my car( it is about 50degrees here at night now or worst case 65 degrees, so is this okay to leave in the car or does it need to be refrigerated when mixed. How long basically do I have to inject it after it has been mixed. This would make it very convienient to walk out to the car about 20 ft away grab it and inject it in the bathroom at the gym. It will sit in the car for about an hour or so and 1 and 1/2 total time with travel to the gym. I was doing 100mcg (50mcg each side because of something someone else told me. They said that your size makes a difference on how much you can inject without gaining the enlargements in the belly and other places by the free floating. Is this true? After you article I have started to lean towards your theory of eod. I am 5'10" 230lbs maybe 8% probably a little less but just being conservative. My arms are 19 1/2 cold and my waist is 34 inches taped. My cheast is 54 inches. My neck is always around 19- 21 inches depending if I neglect it or not and waist loss. This should hopefully give you a picture in your head of my situation. I have a lot of mass basically so I would like to know along with the other stuff I wrote if the size matters according to dosage amount. I was doing it everyday but in the different area that I worked that day. IS it okay if you hit a muscle everyday and inject or is it better to still do eod injections. I have to work out everyday at this stage since I have been training so long that my muscle maturity is pretty good and I recover very fast. I hope all this makes sense I know what I am trying to convey I just hope it translated well to you. Please if possible answer the few questions. Thanks.
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You have been correctly informed and I believe that leaving it in the car, at these temperatures, is OK and will not see any significant degradation in the peptide.

If you inject it every day, your results will eventually diminish and stop, somewhere around the 30-40 day mark. If you inject it no more than EOD, you will be able to do longer cycles with it.
 
Grunt76 said:
You have been correctly informed and I believe that leaving it in the car, at these temperatures, is OK and will not see any significant degradation in the peptide.

If you inject it every day, your results will eventually diminish and stop, somewhere around the 30-40 day mark. If you inject it no more than EOD, you will be able to do longer cycles with it.
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how about his question on doses relating to size and intestinal growth?
 
Grunt76 said:
40mcg is plenty. We have to realize that this is a huge amount compared to what the body naturally produces. Maybe we can ask TheGame46 who is working on his master's degree in endocrinology what the actual amount produced by a normal human, say even with exercise, but it's probably something less than 1mcg.

20mcg each side. 30 each side in the quads. That's plenty. Now, you won't see major, immediate LBM increases, but THAT IS NOT WHAT IGF-1 IS FOR. That's what anabolic steroids are for. 40-50mcg total will let you get plenty of hyperplasia, not grow your intestines too much, and save you plenty of $.
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So when you say each side of the quad do you mean vastus med and lat or do you mean in each leg?
 
Hello, This is my 3rd cycle with lr3. I just received 1 vial of 1mg of lr3 powder and 10ml of sodium chloride. I mixed all the chloride in with lr3 powder. Was this correct? Should i have added just 1ml of chloride?

Regards
 
Huh?

Just got my lr3, waiting on my acid, have the nacl to cut with, but they sent me an empty sterile vial. What in the hell do I do with the empty sterile vial? Ive never reconstituted before and I am already sure Im gonna screw up
 
ocho86 said:
Just got my lr3, waiting on my acid, have the nacl to cut with, but they sent me an empty sterile vial. What in the hell do I do with the empty sterile vial? Ive never reconstituted before and I am already sure Im gonna screw up
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Gentle Ocho, it is written somewhere in the many pages on information on the particular lr3 you mention... a step by step guide to do exactly what you require. It all takes but one action to set the wheels in motion for you to find your answer.

You must use the search function.

Regarding your hopes and dreams, I find the pantaloon a good vessel.
 
Searched: empty vial of nothingness.

The forum, like the vial, was empty:sad:

Unless you meant search for reconstitution in which case I have read about a bazillion threads and am still sooooo nervous. I will probably re-read most of them to see if I can find one that mentions an empty vial and how to use it. And if I overlooked it in this thread, Im an idiot.
 
i'm sorry, i dont want to sound like a jerk or nothing, but i simply am amazed at all the "how to reconstitute IGF" threads, not only is it exceedingly simply but there are probably close to 1000 threads on this that all ask the same questions and have the same answers in them, as well as two stickies. you almost cant NOT run into these threads with even a 5 minute search on here.

if you got a truly empy vial then you got ripped off and need to take that up with your source, however if that vial has some IGF in the bottom you are missing, just reconstitute it like you would any other IGF and you'll be set
 
Just need a quick clarification on reconstituting Hexarelin, and ghrp6.

I am thinking about reconstituting with .6%AA, as I would with igf, then add some NaCl, BW, B12 prior to pinning subQ.

My questions are:

1/ Do you have to reconstitue with AA? If, not why (detrimental to those petides, which I can't see why)?

2/ I can assume shelf life is comparable to that of igf, a week with BW, NaCl, B12, and a lot more with AA?

3/ How do Hexa, and ghrp6 repsond to temperature variation (fridge??), with, or without AA?
 
neverstop said:
i'm sorry, i dont want to sound like a jerk or nothing, but i simply am amazed at all the "how to reconstitute IGF" threads, not only is it exceedingly simply but there are probably close to 1000 threads on this that all ask the same questions and have the same answers in them, as well as two stickies. you almost cant NOT run into these threads with even a 5 minute search on here.

if you got a truly empy vial then you got ripped off and need to take that up with your source, however if that vial has some IGF in the bottom you are missing, just reconstitute it like you would any other IGF and you'll be set
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There were three vials, one with IGF, one with nacl, and a sad lonely empty one. You don't sound like a jerk, just somone who didn't understand what I wrote. But thanks for your input. From what I understand the vial is needed to do some mixing that I won't be needing to do. On another thread some one with what I am assuming is the same kit I got was told to mix with his nacl and then transfer a certain amount into the other vial. What sucks is that he actually did that and probably wasted all his igf by not mixing it with aa. Poor guy.
 
if you got one empty vial, i'm guessing that was intended to mix the Acetic acid in? then transfer the acetic acid/water solution into the IGF. sounds like the poor guy ruined his stuff though.

there are a few other threads here that have good instructions on how to make good acetic acid to use. if you got this kit from a former board sponsor here that was having serious issues with operation raw deal, i wouldn't worry if they ship you random stuff that doesn't make sense. as i ordered cialis and they shipped me arimidex and they then shipped me an empty box one time, etc...long story short, if we are talking about the same supplier dont sweat it if they ship you stuff that doesn't make sense or if they ship you some extra stuff, they are good company run by good folks who have always made things right in the end, but are also quite possibly the most unorganized business i have ever dealt with in my life and they have never been good about answering their phone or emails, and i've been ordering on and off from them since 2001.

bump for the other questions, given the scarcity of IGF these days have been giving these other GH frags a second look
 
I know exactly what company you're talking about and luckily it wasn't them. I had an ongoing order for about 4 months with them that never got resolved and just recently got refunded by surprise. Alls well that ends well though.
 
neverstop said:
if you got one empty vial, i'm guessing that was intended to mix the Acetic acid in? then transfer the acetic acid/water solution into the IGF. sounds like the poor guy ruined his stuff though.

there are a few other threads here that have good instructions on how to make good acetic acid to use. if you got this kit from a former board sponsor here that was having serious issues with operation raw deal, i wouldn't worry if they ship you random stuff that doesn't make sense. as i ordered cialis and they shipped me arimidex and they then shipped me an empty box one time, then another time they shipped me some igf i ordered after i canceled my order and then on my most recent 600$ order they havn't shipped me anything for awhile, even after i got a shipping confirmation from then, and they dont respond to emails/calls. long story, if we are talking about the same supplier dont sweat it if they ship you stuff that doesn't make sense or if they ship you some extra stuff, they are good company run by good folks, but are also quite possibly the most unorganized business i have ever dealt with in my life and they have never been good about answering their phone and i've been ordering on and off from them since 2001

bump for the other questions, given the scarcity of IGF these days have been giving these other GH frags a second look
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I got an empty 10ml vial, 1mg of IGF powder, and 1mg of AA. I never heard of a method of mixing in another Vial, last time I mix the AA with the IGF in the same vial. I drew out the IGF into the needle and then drew the Nacl into the needle. I never heard of mixing it in another vial before you draw it into the needle.
 
Possibly the empty vial is so you can draw some of the IGF-1 (after it is reconstituted in the original vial) and put into the empty vial and freeze it for later use.

More than likely the extra vial was sent so you feel like you are getting a "kit" (i.e. more for your money) since THEY no longer want to include AA.
 
5$ says they just included it for some stupid reason and its not even necessary, my mixing guess was that you would use pure acetic acid and then some sterile water to dilute it in the empty container since they dont give you acetic acid anymore
 
i wonder why they aren't including it anymore? and they are the absolute worst co. i've dealt with regarding answering phone calls and messages. it angers me
 
If they include it, then they are encouraging you to reconstitute it and use it. That was the reason given for no longer carrying AA.
 
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