Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

My next Cycle, please critique

ALJD0812

ALJD0812

Member
Ok not hitting this cycle for a few more months but am putting the puzzle together. This is what I have and will be doing.

Havoc (Weeks 1-4 ) 40 mg
TEST Enan (Weeks 1-12 500 mg a week)
Winstrol (50 mg ED) weeks 10-14)
HCG (begin week 6 carry up until 2 weeks in PCT)
Armidex ( .5 mg eod weeks 5-12)


PCT
clomid 100mg every day first 2 weeks.
HCG first 2 weeks
Nolvadex 40/40/30/20
Diesel Test Hardcore for the duration
Stoked (4 a day for the full 4 weeks)
Sunami - 6 pills a day

Diet will have roughly 5000 calories a day , then cutting down to 3500 in weeks 10 -14 in anticipation of the winstrol.

Am I overdoing it on PCT? I am thinking of doing this in May. Just need some opinions. I was going to run something similiar to this but never got the armidex and didn;t want the bloat.
 
nosnmiveins said:
HCG should be used on cycle and before PCT, not in PCT. choose nolva or clomid, no need for both
Click to expand...

Really, there is no benefit to using HCG 2 weeks into PCT, I read somewhere in here to run it like that. Clomid will elevate LH won't it? Where Nolva won't.

Thanks bro, you been helpful in the past. My cycle seems good though?
 
ALJD0812 said:
Really, there is no benefit to using HCG 2 weeks into PCT, I read somewhere in here to run it like that. Clomid will elevate LH won't it? Where Nolva won't.

Thanks bro, you been helpful in the past. My cycle seems good though?
Click to expand...


cycle seems great. HCG use in PCT is still somewhat suppressive, thats why u run it during cycle and through the waiting period for the ester to clear.

if ur not gyno prone then i would say use just clomid for PCT
 
nosnmiveins said:
cycle seems great. HCG use in PCT is still somewhat suppressive, thats why u run it during cycle and through the waiting period for the ester to clear.

if ur not gyno prone then i would say use just clomid for PCT
Click to expand...

yet again i disagree,

its only supressive if not taking with an AI, and its used in high doses.
 
ALJD0812 said:
Ok not hitting this cycle for a few more months but am putting the puzzle together. This is what I have and will be doing.

Havoc (Weeks 1-4 ) 40 mg
TEST Enan (Weeks 1-12 500 mg a week)
Winstrol (50 mg ED) weeks 10-14)
HCG (begin week 6 carry up until 2 weeks in PCT)
Armidex ( .5 mg eod weeks 5-12)


PCT
clomid 100mg every day first 2 weeks.
HCG first 2 weeks
Nolvadex 40/40/30/20
Diesel Test Hardcore for the duration
Stoked (4 a day for the full 4 weeks)
Sunami - 6 pills a day

Diet will have roughly 5000 calories a day , then cutting down to 3500 in weeks 10 -14 in anticipation of the winstrol.

Am I overdoing it on PCT? I am thinking of doing this in May. Just need some opinions. I was going to run something similiar to this but never got the armidex and didn;t want the bloat.
Click to expand...

PCT startsing 1 week after last shot
hCG 2000ius e3d for a total of 5 shots
Clomid once the hCG is stopped 100mg for 1 week 50 mg for 3 weeks.
Adex ran .5 mg ED during the PCT
 
crazyfool405 said:
PCT startsing 1 week after last shot
hCG 2000ius e3d for a total of 5 shots
Clomid once the hCG is stopped 100mg for 1 week 50 mg for 3 weeks.
Adex ran .5 mg ED during the PCT
Click to expand...

Thanks....so basically keep running adex from week 6 until PCT is done. Can I get away with eod or is ed the way to go?

Regarding HCG, how much should I be running during cycle?
 
this is pulled from another board. but its talking about Prop.


"PCT ( post cycle therapy )

Key word here is POST, meaning after the cycle is over and that means after all AAS esters have cleared your system not after your final shot.
HCG IS NOT FOR PCT IT IS FOR PRE-PCT, the time during your cycle and after last shot of AAS while esters are clearing. PCT starts on DAY4 after your last HCG shot. The reason for this is when you inject HCG you will get a spike several hours after shot and then again 72 hours later, after this final spike is when you want to start your PCT. Again HCG is not used for PCT.

HCG is best used in small frequent doses throughout the cycle and not during Post Cycle Therapy. I recommend HCG treatment begin during the second week of a cycle and end just before PCT starts. The dose one needs varies and can be adjusted mid cycle if necessary."


we can butt heads on this all day, but we should just agree to disagree
 
nosnmiveins said:
HCG shot should be used on the day the ester clears, PCT should begin 4 days AFTER last HCG shot
Click to expand...

Ok, cool. So I will take my last HCG shot on my last day of winny. I think that's a pretty safe bet since it's 14 days after my last shot of test E. Thanks, I got that squared away now.
 
nosnmiveins said:
this is pulled from another board. but its talking about Prop.


"PCT ( post cycle therapy )

Key word here is POST, meaning after the cycle is over and that means after all AAS esters have cleared your system not after your final shot.
HCG IS NOT FOR PCT IT IS FOR PRE-PCT, the time during your cycle and after last shot of AAS while esters are clearing. PCT starts on DAY4 after your last HCG shot. The reason for this is when you inject HCG you will get a spike several hours after shot and then again 72 hours later, after this final spike is when you want to start your PCT. Again HCG is not used for PCT.

HCG is best used in small frequent doses throughout the cycle and not during Post Cycle Therapy. I recommend HCG treatment begin during the second week of a cycle and end just before PCT starts. The dose one needs varies and can be adjusted mid cycle if necessary."


we can butt heads on this all day, but we should just agree to disagree
Click to expand...

that bolded is nonsense, i do not understand these people and their answers, it can be used for eith on or POST. not needed on cycle in which you on for 3 months, anthing higher, 2 times once a month, OK, but not 2-3 times a week during your cycle, thats means for desensitation
 
crazyfool405 said:
that bolded is nonsense, i do not understand these people and their answers, it can be used for eith on or POST. not needed on cycle in which you on for 3 months, anthing higher, 2 times once a month, OK, but not 2-3 times a week during your cycle, thats means for desensitation
Click to expand...


no. means for desensitation are at HIGH doses. 250iu 2x a week or 500iu once a week will NOT desensitize. personally i would not run it the entire legth of a cycle, but def start about halfway through
 
ALJD0812 said:
How come I don't need it? Last time I did E my boys were the size of grapes.
Click to expand...


this cycle shouldnt be AS suppressive as say a cycle with deca or tren.

HCG is mostly used during 14+ week test cycles or cycles including tren or deca.

but like i said, it cant hurt so if u have it use it
 
nosnmiveins said:
no. means for desensitation are at HIGH doses. 250iu 2x a week or 500iu once a week will NOT desensitize. personally i would not run it the entire legth of a cycle, but def start about halfway through
Click to expand...


right but estrogen is what sensitizes it, if you control estrogen, it will be much less of a problem

and you dont think shooting 2x a week even at that low dose for 10-12 weeks (24 times total) wont desensitze u as much as 5 shots? that crazy thinking
 

Attachments

crazyfool405 said:
right but estrogen is what sensitizes it, if you control estrogen, it will be much less of a problem

and you dont think shooting 2x a week even at that low dose for 10-12 weeks (24 times total) wont desensitze u as much as 5 shots? that crazy thinking
Click to expand...


nonono, im not arguing about the amount of shots. i just think that HCG should be started during a cycle, when to start it depends on the compounds and how suppressed u are.

cycles including tren or deca i would advise introducing HCG somewhere in the cycle.

but for a simple test cycle, a couple shots toward the end would be fine.
 
nosnmiveins said:
nonono, im not arguing about the amount of shots. i just think that HCG should be started during a cycle, when to start it depends on the compounds and how suppressed u are.

cycles including tren or deca i would advise introducing HCG somewhere in the cycle.

but for a simple test cycle, a couple shots toward the end would be fine.
Click to expand...


u were arguing desensitation. and hCG IMO is only need on LONG cycles 5+ months. every so often 2x every 6-8 weeks.

i still believe post cycle hCG is best, because it acts directly on the testis
 
ALJD0812 said:
Ok not hitting this cycle for a few more months but am putting the puzzle together. This is what I have and will be doing.

Havoc (Weeks 1-4 ) 40 mg
TEST Enan (Weeks 1-12 500 mg a week)
Winstrol (50 mg ED) weeks 10-14)
HCG (begin week 6 carry up until 2 weeks in PCT)
Armidex ( .5 mg eod weeks 5-12)


PCT
clomid 100mg every day first 2 weeks.
HCG first 2 weeks
Nolvadex 40/40/30/20
Diesel Test Hardcore for the duration
Stoked (4 a day for the full 4 weeks)
Sunami - 6 pills a day

Diet will have roughly 5000 calories a day , then cutting down to 3500 in weeks 10 -14 in anticipation of the winstrol.

Am I overdoing it on PCT
Click to expand...

yes.


PCT
clomid 100mg every day first 2 weeks.
HCG first 2 weeks
Nolvadex 40/40/30/20
Diesel Test Hardcore for the duration (4/5 day)
Sunami - 3 pills a day
 
Chuck Diesel said:
yes.


PCT
clomid 100mg every day first 2 weeks. no, i think it should be started after hCG and 3 weeks
HCG first 2 weeks 1500-2000 iu E3D for 5 shots
Nolvadex 40/40/30/20 i dont think you need both clomid and nolva
Diesel Test Hardcore for the duration (4/5 day) good although may not be needed
Sunami - 3 pills a day
Click to expand...
good although may not be needed

adex ran throughout the whole PCT
 
Last edited:
pistonpump said:
dosages on hcg....

time to start pct....

:nono:
Click to expand...

doses on hCG are dependant on when your using it, higher DURING PCT, and lower if your to run it on cycle

higher during PCT to give higher elevations of testosterone, yes there will be aromatization but ADEX effectivly counteracts that and keeps estradiol low, preventing negative feedback

Time to start PCT (given my specific out line, 7 days after last shot is where you can do it)

and when you are on HRT or TRT a lot of people get 200mg 1 time a week OR every 2 weeks, and if its every 2 weeks, by a few days after week one they feel the effects of LOW T levels, so waiting exactly 2-3 weeks, is not always the case, and should be dependant on how you feel
 
crazyfool405 said:
doses on hCG are dependant on when your using it, higher DURING PCT, and lower if your to run it on cycle

higher during PCT to give higher elevations of testosterone, yes there will be aromatization but ADEX effectivly counteracts that and keeps estradiol low, preventing negative feedback the point is HCG is going to prolong the testes from normal function when used in PCT, thats why it is used on cycle to keep them from shutting off then once PCT starts they will be ready to produce LH solely on their own. when HCG is used in PCT you are just prolonging the time when the testes natural LH function can occur, thus hindering a speedier recovery. after all HCG is an outside source of LH FSH

Time to start PCT (given my specific out line, 7 days after last shot is where you can do it)

and when you are on HRT or TRT a lot of people get 200mg 1 time a week OR every 2 weeks, and if its every 2 weeks, by a few days after week one they feel the effects of LOW T levels, so waiting exactly 2-3 weeks, is not always the case, and should be dependant on how you feel this is not TRT dose nor is the TRT period, this is a cycle and higher blood levels of exo testosterone are circulating due to the ester 7 days is not long enough just as if someone was doing 3grams of test a week for a few months, 2 weeks would not be enough. It is dependant on when the test levels are closest to natural production. thats when to start. you say its by how you feel you cannot go by how you feel it is not accurate. youve said yourself you "thought" you were recovered but blood tests said otherwise. The average time to get to baseline with an average 10-12 week 500mg per week cycle is 2 weeks.
Click to expand...
id like to know what kind of experience you have with injectables anyway?
 
pistonpump said:
id like to know what kind of experience you have with injectables anyway?
Click to expand...
doses on hCG are dependant on when your using it, higher DURING PCT, and lower if your to run it on cycle

higher during PCT to give higher elevations of testosterone, yes there will be aromatization but ADEX effectivly counteracts that and keeps estradiol low, preventing negative feedback

the point is HCG is going to prolong the testes from normal function when used in PCT, thats why it is used on cycle to keep them from shutting off then once PCT starts they will be ready to produce LH solely on their own. when HCG is used in PCT you are just prolonging the time when the testes natural LH function can occur, thus hindering a speedier recovery. after all HCG is an outside source of LH FSH

Time to start PCT (given my specific out line, 7 days after last shot is where you can do it)

and when you are on HRT or TRT a lot of people get 200mg 1 time a week OR every 2 weeks, and if its every 2 weeks, by a few days after week one they feel the effects of LOW T levels, so waiting exactly 2-3 weeks, is not always the case, and should be dependant on how you feel

this is not TRT dose nor is the TRT period, this is a cycle and higher blood levels of exo testosterone are circulating due to the ester 7 days is not long enough just as if someone was doing 3grams of test a week for a few months, 2 weeks would not be enough. It is dependant on when the test levels are closest to natural production. thats when to start. you say its by how you feel you cannot go by how you feel it is not accurate. youve said yourself you "thought" you were recovered but blood tests said otherwise. The average time to get to baseline with an average 10-12 week 500mg per week cycle is 2 weeks.


i said i thought i was recovered after a week on PCT, my blood test was 2 weeks before PCT, people are confusing that, because my test results came back when i started PCT

i still feel that if your last shot is 250 mg, then by about 10 days you will really start to feel your libido lag. at this point you can know that its time for your next shot, (a lot of people on HRT / TRT report this when they are on a shot every 2 weeks and they want to get a shot every week)

i understand what hCG and that its an outside source, but it still greatly helps during POST cycle, as some would say it helps During cycle.

2 sides of every story yet again, i know people who have done hCG in PCT, and works out well, a lot of BBers over at MD forum do it that way, its what your more confortablewith.

i havent done injectables YET but i study the topic immensly on my own to learn as much as i can. (cant learn it all)

if you look at the protocol, its technically 3 weeks before you start your clomid in PCT in which case it will let your body produce its own LH and FSH like you said
so your still technically in the clearing stage of the drug and by the time hCG ends your ready .
 
crazyfool405 said:
i said i thought i was recovered after a week on PCT, my blood test was 2 weeks before PCT, people are confusing that, because my test results came back when i started PCT

i still feel that if your last shot is 250 mg, then by about 10 days you will really start to feel your libido lag. i agree, that is most likely at this point you can know that its time for your next shot, (a lot of people on HRT / TRT report this when they are on a shot every 2 weeks and they want to get a shot every week)

i understand what hCG and that its an outside source, but it still greatly helps during POST cycle, as some would say it helps During cycle. yet this is from reading? there is a reason we use serms now and reason why cycling gets improved, just the same with hcg not being used in PCT, its an old sku approach and for a reason. Again i know alot of guys with alot of experience with the juice and theyll say HCG is best used on cycle. Even in TRT it is used in this way, at least by up to date docs.

2 sides of every story yet again, i know people who have done hCG in PCT, and works out well, a lot of BBers over at MD forum do it that way, its what your more confortable with.
It may be better i have yet to try but maybe i will just to get a comparison, experience is a better teacher than a book.
i havent done injectables YET but i study the topic immensly on my own to learn as much as i can. (cant learn it all) the things you learn with personal experience is very important but its good that you learn as much as you can prior to that. :clap2:

.
Click to expand...
fgadgadfasfsdf
 
Piston, have you ever played around with Superdrol? I am thinking about running it and doing something different than Havoc. How are the side effects in regards to libido? Would you stick with havoc or try SuperDrol if you were me. I have one more PH cycle in me before May so I am just looking for something different. I want to get a little bigger, dry gains and nice strength increase. My max bench is 315 for 10. I wouldn't mind getting that to 335 for 10 or 355 for 6. That is my goal. Just looking for some advice on this. I read the sticky and it seems like superdrol might be a good fit for me.

Thanks
 
pistonpump said:
fgadgadfasfsdf
Click to expand...

thank you....

i think its good to try both and which one works better for you you can stick with.

the main reason why im against using it during a cycle is bc 2-3x per week for a 12 week cycle is like 20-30 shots of hCG, it can probably do a number on your testis ability to naturally make LH. especially when its important to increase LH and FSH you come off cycle

PS im have 7 weeks to run a cycle, i think im gunna do 500mg Test per week 2 shots a week, and im gunna run it with EQT2 (3 a day) then Hdrol (3 pills a day) and the whole thing with Trenadrol starting week 2 or 3. not sure on the dosage of Trenadrol yet though.
 
To original poster...

If you want a solid PCT layout, follow the guru's plan himself, Anthony Roberts. I believe he knows more about PCT than everyone here combined (No offense).

Invalid Link Removed
 
By the way,

I'd go with Superdrol over Epistane/Havoc any day of the week!

You won't be disappointed with Superdrol.
 
crazyfool405 said:
thank you....

i think its good to try both and which one works better for you you can stick with.

the main reason why im against using it during a cycle is bc 2-3x per week for a 12 week cycle is like 20-30 shots of hCG, it can probably do a number on your testis ability to naturally make LH. especially when its important to increase LH and FSH you come off cycle

PS im have 7 weeks to run a cycle, i think im gunna do 500mg Test per week 2 shots a week, and im gunna run it with EQT2 (3 a day) then Hdrol (3 pills a day) and the whole thing with Trenadrol starting week 2 or 3. not sure on the dosage of Trenadrol yet though.
Click to expand...
ok once again, get this thru your head. you reccommend your doses of 2000iu at once for how many shots again? that is equal to 8 250iu shots that are spread out. Its not how many shots its the dosage that will cause the desensitization.

you keep talkin like you are so certain but yet you have no experience with it and a 7 week test e run??? shows how much you know. sounds like stack stack stack to me.
 
pistonpump said:
ok once again, get this thru your head. you reccommend your doses of 2000iu at once for how many shots again? that is equal to 8 250iu shots that are spread out. Its not how many shots its the dosage that will cause the desensitization.

you keep talkin like you are so certain but yet you have no experience with it and a 7 week test e run??? shows how much you know. sounds like stack stack stack to me.
Click to expand...


i dont wanna do prop, id rather do C or E, and i only have time for 7 weeks. i know i should be using prop but dont want to use it for first time.

the aromatization is dependant on the dose of hCG which keeps you shut down, run it with an AI it will be much more successful IMO
 
crazyfool405 said:
i dont wanna do prop, id rather do C or E, and i only have time for 7 weeks. i know i should be using prop but dont want to use it for first time.

the aromatization is dependant on the dose of hCG which keeps you shut down, run it with an AI it will be much more successful IMO
Click to expand...


i know you are goin to use C or E but for 7 weeks there is no point, its a waste. For my first run of Test E i didnt "see" the test til around week 5-6 so what would be the point of 7 weeks? You are going to inject 5 or 6 weeks due to clearance times as well.....just use prop, td test base, or dermacrine, dont waste it on a short fckn cycle! The reason an AI helps when on HCG is to kill the excessive aromatase activity that comes with administration of HCG.
 
pistonpump said:
i know you are goin to use C or E but for 7 weeks there is no point, its a waste. For my first run of Test E i didnt "see" the test til around week 5-6 so what would be the point of 7 weeks? You are going to inject 5 or 6 weeks due to clearance times as well.....just use prop, td test base, or dermacrine, dont waste it on a short fckn cycle! The reason an AI helps when on HCG is to kill the excessive aromatase activity that comes with administration of HCG.
Click to expand...

i kno thats wat ive been saying lol

Send me a PM
 
crazyfool405 said:
i dont wanna do prop, id rather do C or E, and i only have time for 7 weeks. i know i should be using prop but dont want to use it for first time.

the aromatization is dependant on the dose of hCG which keeps you shut down, run it with an AI it will be much more successful IMO
Click to expand...

You don't plan a cycle when you "don't have time" to run it properly.
 
pistonpump said:
exactly. if you dont have time dont run it at all or use something designed for the time you have. dont half ass it or youll get half ass gains.
Click to expand...

its quite complicated, but it may not be worth it at this point of my life, i missed my prime opportunity, i should have done it instead of my pplex mdrol bridge.
 
fcpcjc said:
By the way,

I'd go with Superdrol over Epistane/Havoc any day of the week!

You won't be disappointed with Superdrol.
Click to expand...

Can you run Superdrol at 40mg a day for the last 2 weeks? Or is this asking for danger? I was thinking 20/30/40/40. You played with this stuff, should I not approach it this way?

Also, the water retention on this compound seems pretty high? Is that correct? That was the beauty of Havoc, I never got "puffy"
 
ALJD0812 said:
Can you run Superdrol at 40mg a day for the last 2 weeks? Or is this asking for danger? I was thinking 20/30/40/40. You played with this stuff, should I not approach it this way?

Also, the water retention on this compound seems pretty high? Is that correct? That was the beauty of Havoc, I never got "puffy"
Click to expand...

I definitely do not recommend running it any higher than 30mg.

I ran it at 10/20/20/20 and had little to no sides and blood work came back fine. I'll dig up the numbers if I can and post them.

I didn't have any retention on Superdrol. I felt hard as rock the whole time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top