Answered My First ever Non Natty approach with SARMs and others..

S

SMS

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Hi everyone!

Apologies, although i´ve been registered here for a while, have not been much active.

I´m not sure if this should go in this section of forum, as i have seen many SARM posts everywhere… and this is considered "supplement" i´m posting it here, if its not the right place, Please, any mod, could you move it? Thanks!

As there is an increasing trend of using "SARMS" in the last couple of years here around Spain, I´ve decided to do a small research on my own with a few compounds, would like to hear if what i have planned is good to do.

I´d like to make one thing clear, my body reacts to most compounds (within natty supplements) with low and médium dosages, So for this, my approach will be similar, small doses to asses tolerance and take it to medium-low or medium doses.

I do have used mk677(i know this is not a sarm) in the past, as experiment, and have to say it was a bit shocking, but due to some personal reasons couldn´t continue for long, neither had a proper approach to it.

This time, my approach is a bit different as i want to experience what Each compound is capable of, so

I´ve decided to use
- Ligandrol for week 1-3 or 4 (depends on how i progress could be 3 weeks or 4) + MK677 (to aid in recovery from my previous injuries and recent knee meniscus surgery)
  • Ligandrol 5mg caps ED for 1st week and see how my body responds, if well then add 5mg more and so till have max dose for me of 15mg making it like 5/5/10/10 or 5/10/10/15, or 5/10/15/15, (i´m not sure may be, in extreme case 20mg will be my max approach here)
  • MK677 will start off with 10mg ED, might add up to max 20mg
- Ostarine for 5-8week (depends on how i progress could be 3 or 4 weeks) + MK677
  • Ostarine Will be 10mg ED 1st week till, may be increase on the 2nd or 3rd week to max dose of 20mg ED
  • MK677 if haven´t used 20mg in previous 4 week, then straight max 20mg ED.
Post-cycle, (not so sure yet) 8-12week
- Tamoxifene 20mg for 2-3weeks? and maybe 4th week 10mg?
- Cardarine 10mg ED
- MK677, continue the previous dose till end

Optional:
- Reclaim (Komodo), got a few bottles, might add this in PCT, along with other test boosters.
- 5a Hydroxy Laxogenin 50mg ED and max up to 150mg ED (have read good and bad about it.. so not sure if would use this, As it isn´t very cheap either..)
- Clomid, typical approach 50/50/25/25

thinking of adding any of these or all of them... not sure, or leave it as it is, and use them later weeks 12-18 Laxogenin, and reclaim with Mk677.

would like some thoughts and critics to it.

PS: Training and nutrition will be very important and on point, as i´ll start much before using these compounds, so i have accountability for everything else these provide me.
PS2: Apologies for my English, its not my mother tongue.

Thank you
SMS
 
R

Rockzilla

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SARMs are not supplements. Pick one either LGD or Ostarine and run it for a full 8-12 weeks. Ostarine for cutting, LGD for bulking. The MK677 would compliment both, but it is supposed to make you hungry so.
 
hairygrandpa

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First of all:

What do want to accomplish? Bulk, cut, recomp?
 
S

SMS

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First of all:

What do want to accomplish? Bulk, cut, recomp?
Hi,

Apologies, forgot to mention that.. Lol..
my idea was to build a little strenght and very Little size with LGD and then recomp with Ostarine, then go for shred with cardarine

SARMs are not supplements. Pick one either LGD or Ostarine and run it for a full 8-12 weeks. Ostarine for cutting, LGD for bulking. The MK677 would compliment both, but it is supposed to make you hungry so.
Hi,
Thanks for the reply, i know they are not "supplements", but i´ve seen several posts about sarms in all sections.

I´ve not intented to use it for so long, as one of my colleagues has tried LGD for 3weeks at 15mg ED and had to come off due to it sides, lethargy, Libido gone down drastically, mood...

But what you say sounds interesting, if decided to do LGD 8weeks, should i take a break or continue as planned for another 8 weeks on Ostarine?

Thank you
SMS
 
hairygrandpa

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Hi,

Apologies, forgot to mention that.. Lol..
my idea was to build a little strenght and very Little size with LGD and then recomp with Ostarine, then go for shred with cardarine


Hi,
Thanks for the reply, i know they are not "supplements", but i´ve seen several posts about sarms in all sections.

I´ve not intented to use it for so long, as one of my colleagues has tried LGD for 3weeks at 15mg ED and had to come off due to it sides, lethargy, Libido gone down drastically, mood...

But what you say sounds interesting, if decided to do LGD 8weeks, should i take a break or continue as planned for another 8 weeks on Ostarine?

Thank you
SMS
LGD cycle without a test base -and at a functional dose (10mg+) is hard to pull off. It has to be run longer to show results and the longer you go -the harder it suppresses your test. Lethargy strikes around the time it shows results, between week 5-6. It also can be hard on the liver, no matter what others say.

To see benefits from MK, well, it also should be run longer (several months) -and it truly shines in combination with anabolics, not so much on its own -or with "weak compounds".

There is a way to use LGD at ,maybe 10mg, for 8 weeks. If you take clomid with it at about 25mg. This way you keep HPTA up -but that is no guarantee you avoid lethargy, as it could also be caused by other factors than low test, like stress on the liver.

Honestly, I would not fiddle with those sarms. Ostarine could be an option for a cut -or recomp but is very weak.
 
S

SMS

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LGD cycle without a test base -and at a functional dose (10mg+) is hard to pull off. It has to be run longer to show results and the longer you go -the harder it suppresses your test. Lethargy strikes around the time it shows results, between week 5-6. It also can be hard on the liver, no matter what others say.

To see benefits from MK, well, it also should be run longer (several months) -and it truly shines in combination with anabolics, not so much on its own -or with "weak compounds".

There is a way to use LGD at ,maybe 10mg, for 8 weeks. If you take clomid with it at about 25mg. This way you keep HPTA up -but that is no guarantee you avoid lethargy, as it could also be caused by other factors than low test, like stress on the liver.

Honestly, I would not fiddle with those sarms. Ostarine could be an option for a cut -or recomp but is very weak.
Hey, thank you very much for your insight!

This is new to me, I didn't knew that i had to have additional test with it, is it because of my low dose approach?

Neither that i could use clomid during those 8weeks or longer to keep the hpta up while running lgd.

As per your recommendation of not fiddling with those sarms, Lgd & osta, is that because you are comparing the benefit vs damages x dose vs of steroids or other stronger compounds?

regarding Mk677 my intention is to use it for several months

Thank you!
SMS
 
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S

SMS

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The other option i´m thinking of, is using both, Osta+LGD together for 6-8 or maybe 10 weeks (along with mk677), depending on reaction/effects/sides , and continue with the Cardarine+Hydroxy Laxogenin+Mk677
 
hairygrandpa

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I guess you already bought the sarms, right?
 
S

SMS

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I guess you already bought the sarms, right?
Nop, not at all.

This is not something i´ll run immediately.

I´ve just come out from a meniscus surgery (removed shattered tissue, almost 50%), and next week will probably start rehab, might also start lifting to train upper body, as i have gained some visceral fat in these 3weeks i´ve been completely off on bed (but still i´m tracking my food/kcal intake ED), so will wait till i get back in shape, around 3-4weeks more approx, as planned.

I´ll place the order next week, will start as soon as i can do decent workouts, i might add MK677 as spon as i get it to have a faster recovery.
 
hairygrandpa

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There are way better options than LGD or Osta. I would invest more time studying before jumping on anything.
Too much info, too much time to explain.
The points you should cover are:
-suppression
-test base
-effective dosages
-side effects

Going very low dose is most often detrimental, as the caused suppression makes the compounds anabolic strength void.
Less own testosterone + a bit of anabolics = no gain in total anabolic strength = useless.

As I said, too much to explain. If you want to do a oral only cycle -or maybe with a trans dermal, just look up logs of others, as all questions were responded numerous times.
 
hairygrandpa

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LGD would dry out your joints. It suppresses testosterone = less conversion from test to estrogen = less estrogen = dry joints.
In your case, after knee surgery = total failure.
 
S

SMS

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Thank you hairygrandpa, will check on info regarding dry joints on LGD

LGD would dry out your joints. It suppresses testosterone = less conversion from test to estrogen = less estrogen = dry joints.
In your case, after knee surgery = total failure.
Although i knew about this, in the case of ostarine, at least, i´ve read that it helps? probably i want to take a normal dose instead of low dose?
 
hairygrandpa

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Thank you hairygrandpa, will check on info regarding dry joints on LGD


Although i knew about this, in the case of ostarine, at least, i´ve read that it helps? probably i want to take a normal dose instead of low dose?
If you find a study about ostarine helping with joints, please share, because I couldn't find any.
Ostarine is, maybe, useful to keep muscles on a cut -and not as suppressive. The "helps with injury thing" I don't know -but I'm not sold to it.
 
S

SMS

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If you find a study about ostarine helping with joints, please share, because I couldn't find any.
Ostarine is, maybe, useful to keep muscles on a cut -and not as suppressive. The "helps with injury thing" I don't know -but I'm not sold to it.
No, not any studies, there barely are any... it seems like i´ve just read wrong sites.

so what would you recommend? now i´m thinking of just running Cardarine+Mk677+laxogenin (even thinking about ditching Cardarine.. because of possibly increasing cancer appereance effect? lol)
 
J

Jeremyk1

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I’ve heard a few people report improvements in their joints from ostarine. All anecdotal, I haven’t heard about any studies done. As far as how or why it does that is anyone’s guess. Maybe it actually doesn’t and all those people are crazy. Hard to say.

10 mg of LGD may work very well, seems to depend. For me, it worked well, not outstanding, but I definitely enjoyed it. I’d guess 10 is probably the minimum you’d want to use, maybe more in the 15-25 range. I didn’t experience any lethargy on it, but some do.

I’m pretty sure Old Witch said he didn’t get much out of either when ran solo, but when he stacked LGD with ostarine, he got pretty good results. Thus far, I haven’t stacked any SARMs, all solo runs.
 
hairygrandpa

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No, not any studies, there barely are any... it seems like i´ve just read wrong sites.

so what would you recommend? now i´m thinking of just running Cardarine+Mk677+laxogenin (even thinking about ditching Cardarine.. because of possibly increasing cancer appereance effect? lol)
What I would recommend to a stranger:
-Stay natty.

What I would recommend to a friend, who I know would not listen and go for it anyways?
-500mg test/w / 75mg/d proviron 12 weeks no AI or as needed- PCT 5 weeks with HCG, clomid, exemestane to curb rebound

What I would recommend to a friend, who I know would not listen and go for it anyways -and who is "needle shy":
-Tbol 40-50mg/d clomid 25mg/d, 25mg/d Proviron 6 weeks, no AI -PCT clomid for 3 weeks 25mg/d eod
Maybe with MK-677 throughout, especially if its a bulk (grehlin = Hunger).
Tbol could be substituted by other orals, like DMZ at 30mg/d. Clomid on cycle could be substituted with Toremifene at 60mg/d, in PCT 120mg/d

Proviron could be substituted with Epistane, no idea about dosages.

Thing is, MK could have bad sides. I had:
-insomnia
-bloating (later in)
-cramps
-elevated BP (bloat as cause)
-nausea and vertigo waking up (first week)

I would go with as few compounds as possible for the first run -and before I suppress my HPTA with "weak azz sh1t", I would take something proven instead of sarms.
 
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S

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There is always someone on boards who make me step back and stay natty for more longer, Lol! but that is great! really appreciated your insight! i´ll study a bit further about other things

on the other hand MK677, I have already used it in the past just 10mg and rarely 20mg, and yes it increased my appetite, difficulty sleeping, and slightly elvated bp, but it is something i´m ready to deal with.

Regarding Tbol and DMZ (this one never heard of) being in a country where its a bit difficult to get stuff besides regular AAS, so will need to check and study these.
 
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BarryScott

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Most AAS sources will have tbol I'd imagine, DMZ is more of a US thing.

You could also get halodrol shipped from the UK/Germany/Poland from one of the usual sites, as a substitute for tbol.
 
Wobmarvel

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If you have never ran anything but mk until now then definitely just pick one. Also your pct is overkill for a sarm cycle. Your pct is almost a better cycle than the cycle.
 
hairygrandpa

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If you have never ran anything but mk until now then definitely just pick one. Also your pct is overkill for a sarm cycle. Your pct is almost a better cycle than the cycle.
That would be literally true if he takes clomid eod instead of ostarine ed.
Why not? Your idea is sound!
Clomid eod:
50/50/25/25/25/25
Adex: 0.25mg e4d
Ideal would be proviron at 25mg/d to up free test -but would work without.

Everyone can benefit from a bit more test.
 
Old Witch

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Gonna disagree strongly as **** in the “just pick one” mantra.

Why suppress yourself for no results?

Oh we don’t get to cuss anymore eh?
 
hairygrandpa

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Gonna disagree strongly as **** in the “just pick one” mantra.

Why suppress yourself for no results?

Oh we don’t get to cuss anymore eh?
We want to cuss -we want a like button. Make AM great again!
 
Wobmarvel

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If time is running out, you only have time for one cycle, you don't care about getting adverse side effects and not knowing what exactly caused them, don't care about finding out how individual compounds effect your body so that you can build more effective cycles in the future, then yes fucking run more than one. I've done 3 single anabolic cycles with minimal suppression, plus fucking gains, fucking **** ****.

But old witch has 17 inch arms, I fucking don't.
 
hairygrandpa

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If time is running out, you only have time for one cycle, you don't care about getting adverse side effects and not knowing what exactly caused them, don't care about finding out how individual compounds effect your body so that you can build more effective cycles in the future, then yes fucking run more than one. I've done 3 single anabolic cycles with minimal suppression, plus fucking gains, fucking **** ****.

But old witch has 17 inch arms, I fucking don't.
Gonna rap a bit:
Hey, yo!
My twenty inch arms are not from sarms.
If you shrink your ballz to get the swollz -
do it with a roid, listen, what Gemelli says is void!
His weak azz sh1t may only grow you a tit -
So don't be a clit and reflect for a bit.

 
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Wobmarvel

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Gonna rap a bit:
Hey, yo!
My twenty inch arms are not from sarms.
If you shrink your ballz to get the swollz -
do it with a roid, listen, what Gemelli says is void!
His weak azz sh1t may only grow you a tit -
So don't be a clit and reflect for a bit.

Lol fucking amazing... That's right, I'm using my newly discovered cus hack!!
 
S

SMS

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That would be literally true if he takes clomid eod instead of ostarine ed.
Why not? Your idea is sound!
Clomid eod:
50/50/25/25/25/25
Adex: 0.25mg e4d
Ideal would be proviron at 25mg/d to up free test -but would work without.

Everyone can benefit from a bit more test.
So you are suggesting that i should do a run of Clomid + adex + proviron (optional), for 6weeks, will give me better resuts than my initial approach?

and later do my pct..

i know its not the same, but will tamox do instead of adex?
 
J

Jeremyk1

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So you are suggesting that i should do a run of Clomid + adex + proviron (optional), for 6weeks, will give me better resuts than my initial approach?

and later do my pct..

i know its not the same, but will tamox do instead of adex?
If you’re just doing a SERM with and AI, you wouldn’t need to do a PCT. that’s essentially a PCT protocol, no shut down. Actually, you’d get the opposite of shut down.

Tamoxifen is definitely not a substitute for adex. Adex is an AI, tamoxifen is a SERM. If you’re already taking clomid, there would realistically be no need to take another SERM. Honestly, it’s debatable if you need the AI while on a SERM, but I think it would be a good idea to phase it in while tapering off the SERM.

While each will have slightly different effects, within each category you could, theoretically pick and choose which to use within a category but don’t try to substitute an AI for a SERM or vise versa.

SERMs:
-clomid
-nolva (tamoxifen)
-raloxifene
-toremifene

AIs:
-arimidex (anastrozole)
-exemestane
-letrozole
-(I think there’s a few more common ones, but I can’t think of any at the moment)
 
Wobmarvel

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If you’re just doing a SERM with and AI, you wouldn’t need to do a PCT. that’s essentially a PCT protocol, no shut down. Actually, you’d get the opposite of shut down.

Tamoxifen is definitely not a substitute for adex. Adex is an AI, tamoxifen is a SERM. If you’re already taking clomid, there would realistically be no need to take another SERM. Honestly, it’s debatable if you need the AI while on a SERM, but I think it would be a good idea to phase it in while tapering off the SERM.

While each will have slightly different effects, within each category you could, theoretically pick and choose which to use within a category but don’t try to substitute an AI for a SERM or vise versa.

SERMs:
-clomid
-nolva (tamoxifen)
-raloxifene
-toremifene

AIs:
-arimidex (anastrozole)
-exemestane
-letrozole
-(I think there’s a few more common ones, but I can’t think of any at the moment)
I use aromasin
 
S

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Lol, i think finally i´ll end up doing what the hairygrandpa said,
Clomid EOD 50/50/25/25/25/25
Adex E4d 0.25mg
Proviron 25/25/25/25/25/25 ED

i think, this way raising my own Test levels is what i´d opt for in the first place :D

6weeks should be enough to have my T levels boosted for some good time i hope?
 
S

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Now the only doubt i have is, should i take MK677 ED or have 5on/2off days aproach?

My aim is to improve my joints, and add some mass on my weak bodyparts while doing this.
 
C

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Lol, i think finally i´ll end up doing what the hairygrandpa said,
Clomid EOD 50/50/25/25/25/25
Adex E4d 0.25mg
Proviron 25/25/25/25/25/25 ED

i think, this way raising my own Test levels is what i´d opt for in the first place :D

6weeks should be enough to have my T levels boosted for some good time i hope?
I tried doing this with clomid 25 mg/day after a failed 3 week ketotestosterone cycle (only had one bottle and it had gone out of stock lol). I kinda extended the pct a bit. I felt better and was fuller on clomid (oh i forgot, i was taking 100mg 6 bromo as well with clomid) than i was on ketotestosterone. While aggression and fullness were elevated, in no way can these gains be compared to 500mg testosterone per week. I mean, if you have never used test or something along those lines it will be ridicuolous. You will literally wake up one day after 5, 6 weeks and you wont be able to believe that you, yeah you, finally have round delts.

And now i am going to propose something many here wont like. If you really want to try something that is mild, will give you SLIGHT boost in strength and aggression, MINOR increase in muscle mass above natty and dont want to get suppressed or pin, go ahead and run 6-bromo at 150mg per day for 8 weeks. It is what i did last year and got the results i mentioned above. The strength i gained was mainly in shoulder press, bench press and lateral raises (just like the strength increases i get from test, they are pretty disproportionate in favour of delts and chest), so that tells me that 6 bromo is somewhat androgenic. It didn't shut me down, not even in the slightest way.

But in no way is it comparable to gear.
 
hairygrandpa

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Lol, i think finally i´ll end up doing what the hairygrandpa said,
Clomid EOD 50/50/25/25/25/25
Adex E4d 0.25mg
Proviron 25/25/25/25/25/25 ED

i think, this way raising my own Test levels is what i´d opt for in the first place :D

6weeks should be enough to have my T levels boosted for some good time i hope?

Now the only doubt i have is, should i take MK677 ED or have 5on/2off days aproach?

My aim is to improve my joints, and add some mass on my weak bodyparts while doing this.

Yes, do it. Better than Osta and no hustling with shrinking nuts, jaundice, lethargy, joint pain, PCT if using LGD .
6-bromo is a good call, it lowers e2 . If you follow @CroLifter 's advise, skip the adex. As far as I know, you should taper it down at the end, like:
6-bromo:
150mg/150/150/150/100/50/50/50 Two weeks longer for e2 rebound

Do with the MK as you wish. Some take it 5 on 2 off -but now I'm convinced its better throughout, has something to do with cortisol -or whatnot. I believe @Old Witch is the one knowing more about that.
 
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S

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Great suggestions!!
looking at it, isn´t this going to cause dry joints too? https://www.dietspotlight.com/6-bromo-review/

also, is 6-bromo Brawn nutrition any good? vs fusion supplements?

edit: 2 doubts
- will the Proviron use still be valid in this run of 6-bromo with Clomid?

- i can see that 6bromo is used for pct too, so do i need to use Proviron and Clomid or just clomid (whichever the case is), through all those 8 weeks? or just las 4-6 weeks as pct?
 
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hairygrandpa

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Great suggestions!!
looking at it, isn´t this going to cause dry joints too? https://www.dietspotlight.com/6-bromo-review/

also, is 6-bromo Brawn nutrition any good? vs fusion supplements?

edit: 2 doubts
- will the Proviron use still be valid in this run of 6-bromo with Clomid?

- i can see that 6bromo is used for pct too, so do i need to use Proviron and Clomid or just clomid (whichever the case is), through all those 8 weeks? or just las 4-6 weeks as pct?
Dry joints if e2 gets too low. Clomid ups test and also e2. Thing is, not everyone gets dry joints from low e2 -and not everyone responds to 6-bromo as good. To be on the safe side, do it like 100/100/100/100/50/50/25

Good call on 6-bromo AND proviron. If you can source proviron, no bromo -nor adex needed. Or bromo use very sparingly, like 50mg eod.

If you can afford -and source proviron, take it throughout. Max dose 50mg with clomid (split dose), in PCT 25mg is advised.
If taken at 50mg with clomid, no AI (bromo, adex) needed. If taken at 25mg with clomid , AI sparingly at low dose every few days.

All written here is a bit of guessing, because we all respond differently to anything...see it as a sound guideline. You could also do like:
Clomid 75mg/75/75/50/25/25
Proviron 50/50/50/50/50/25 - 25/25/25

Nothing wrong with that either, or:
Clomid: 75mg/75/75/50/25/25
Bromo: 100/100/100/100/50/50/ -50/50
proviron: 25/25/25/25/25/25/ -25/25/25

Or do clomid 10 weeks -or whatever.

One more thing, if libido drops, joint ache and low e2 is suspected, drop bromo , maybe, up a bit clomid for about 10 days. DHEA would be a good addition, TD, like dermacrine, is a good bet.

Proviron will not cause low e2, IMO. But in conjunction with an AI, maybe.
 
J

Jeremyk1

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- i can see that 6bromo is used for pct too, so do i need to use Proviron and Clomid or just clomid (whichever the case is), through all those 8 weeks? or just las 4-6 weeks as pct?
If you’re using AIs and SERMs, you don’t need a PCT. they’ll stimulate test production, totally not suppressive.
 
hairygrandpa

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If you’re using AIs and SERMs, you don’t need a PCT. they’ll stimulate test production, totally not suppressive.
Well, after prolonged serm use, a bit AI afterwards, to curb rebound may be sound.
 
Mzakif

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Yes, do it. Better than Osta and no hustling with shrinking nuts, jaundice, lethargy, joint pain, PCT if using LGD .
6-bromo is a good call, it lowers e2 . If you follow @CroLifter 's advise, skip the adex. As far as I know, you should taper it down at the end, like:
6-bromo:
150mg/150/150/150/100/50/50/50 Two weeks longer for e2 rebound

Do with the MK as you wish. Some take it 5 on 2 off -but now I'm convinced its better throughout, has something to do with cortisol -or whatnot. I believe @Old Witch is the one knowing more about that.
@hairygrandpa what kind of results is expected from such protocol

Reason behind my question is I did 8 weeks 1/4andro and epi Andro cycle with proper pct a year ago and till now My libido is gone and sometimes I suffer fro ED although my performance in gym is way better and weights and strength now are close what I had on cycle

I’m confused

That’s why till now is didn’t start any of other planned cycles as far as I understand the more cycles you have u would end up on trt

So it would be great to know what expect from this protocol it terms for gains, libido ,etc

I’m 42 years old
Thanks
 
Last edited:
celc5

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Gonna rap a bit:
Hey, yo!
My twenty inch arms are not from sarms.
If you shrink your ballz to get the swollz -
do it with a roid, listen, what Gemelli says is void!
His weak azz sh1t may only grow you a tit -
So don't be a clit and reflect for a bit.

Like!
 
hairygrandpa

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@hairygrandpa what kind of results is expected from such protocol

Reason behind my question is I did 8 weeks 1/4andro and epi Andro cycle with proper pct a year ago and till now My libido is gone and sometimes I suffer fro ED although my performance in gym is way better and weights and strength now are close what I had on cycle

I’m confused

That’s why till now is didn’t start any of other planned cycles as far as I understand the more cycles you have u would end up on trt

So it would be great to know what expect from this protocol it terms for gains, libido ,etc

I’m 42 years old
Thanks
I saw labs from guys who use clomid to get test up -or even use clomid as TRT. Look for it on AM, here are some threads about it.
Over a 2 month period, test got up by 300%. Mind you they had low test in the beginning. Protocol was something like
Month/clomid: 50eod/25eod/25e3d. That upped their test -but did not always helped with ED.

Talking about libido:
Using Proviron (Mesterolone) with clomid is an obvious choice, if you look at what proviron does.
I'm no doctor. I self-prescribed TRT , now cruising and blasting. I find myself often fiddling with too much -or too low libido, estrogen, prolactin and whatnot. Still learning -but some things work better than others.
Libido and ED issues can be complicated. Read a bit about Proviron and male menopause.

In long term studies, up to 150mg/d proviron was given, with no bad side effects -and slight suppression of test in only 30% of the subjects.

You should check your test by labs to see if you recovered. If its borderline low, you could benefit from the clomid cycle mentioned. IMHO, most endocrinologists know less about libido than bodybuilders, who are basically lab rats, using all kind of stuff. An endo often brings your hormone levels in range -but libido is neglected. There is no "boner-doc" I guess.

Gains on clomid:
I guess as much as from a "andro cycle", that means mild-moderate. If your total test is good/normal for 42, lets say 600 -and goes up over the weeks to 1300, that is huge! No natural test booster will do it, as far as I know. Problem is, total test means nothing, because most of it binds to SHBG and is useless for building muscles -and I guess libido. Some of the test also converts to estrogen. If you use Proviron with it, it will curb estrogen conversion AND free test by binding to SHBG. Now you will have more free circulating test in your blood.
Using sparingly an AI (instead of proviron), like 6-bromo, adex or exem, curbs estrogen conversion, leaving you with higher total test. How much of it binds to SHBG depends on the individual.

A good addition for any cycle -or in general is low dose tadalafil:
I use tadalafil 10mg e3d for long term. It has a lot of benefits this way, like: possibly cardio protective, vasodilation, lowers BP, helps libido, ups probably protein synthesis. I say possible and probable, because other PDE5 inhibitors do. Tests with tadalafil are not out yet.
It gives you awesome pumps, that alone makes it worth it.

All I wrote is up for discussion, I don't claim to be the clomid/proviron/TRT/ED authority here. :)
 
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Wobmarvel

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Dry joints if e2 gets too low. Clomid ups test and also e2. Thing is, not everyone gets dry joints from low e2 -and not everyone responds to 6-bromo as good. To be on the safe side, do it like 100/100/100/100/50/50/25

Good call on 6-bromo AND proviron. If you can source proviron, no bromo -nor adex needed. Or bromo use very sparingly, like 50mg eod.

If you can afford -and source proviron, take it throughout. Max dose 50mg with clomid (split dose), in PCT 25mg is advised.
If taken at 50mg with clomid, no AI (bromo, adex) needed. If taken at 25mg with clomid , AI sparingly at low dose every few days.

All written here is a bit of guessing, because we all respond differently to anything...see it as a sound guideline. You could also do like:
Clomid 75mg/75/75/50/25/25
Proviron 50/50/50/50/50/25 - 25/25/25

Nothing wrong with that either, or:
Clomid: 75mg/75/75/50/25/25
Bromo: 100/100/100/100/50/50/ -50/50
proviron: 25/25/25/25/25/25/ -25/25/25

Or do clomid 10 weeks -or whatever.

One more thing, if libido drops, joint ache and low e2 is suspected, drop bromo , maybe, up a bit clomid for about 10 days. DHEA would be a good addition, TD, like dermacrine, is a good bet.

Proviron will not cause low e2, IMO. But in conjunction with an AI, maybe.
Slow down slow down I'm trying to write this down. I recon my pct in a few weeks is gonna be one hell of a cycle :D
 
C

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Great suggestions!!
looking at it, isn´t this going to cause dry joints too? https://www.dietspotlight.com/6-bromo-review/

also, is 6-bromo Brawn nutrition any good? vs fusion supplements?

edit: 2 doubts
- will the Proviron use still be valid in this run of 6-bromo with Clomid?

- i can see that 6bromo is used for pct too, so do i need to use Proviron and Clomid or just clomid (whichever the case is), through all those 8 weeks? or just las 4-6 weeks as pct?
I used Brawn nutrition 6-bromo.
 
hairygrandpa

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Brawn is good in my book.
 
C

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Also, no signs of dry joints or any other low e2 symptoms with 6 bromo, at least for me. And i have experienced those with aromasin so I know what I am talking about.

Personally, even though I am pretty sure 6 bromo lowers e2 and therefore increases natty test, it felt more like a prohormone to me.
 
J

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All I wrote is up for discussion, I don't claim to be the clomid/proviron/TRT/ED authority here. :)
Hairy grandpa is too humble. He’s a very knowledgeable guy, I’d listen to him.

That said, he didn’t really talk about prolactin, which may or may not be an issue. With everything he has said, it probably wouldn’t even be needed, I imagine a protocol like what he laid out would be enough. But I’ve heard lots of guys get significant libido boosts from prolactin inhibitors. A fairly cheap and easy way to test is look for a mucuna pruriens/L-Dopa supplement. That’s the only supplement I’m aware of that reduces prolactin. Worth looking into for libido issues I think.
 
Wobmarvel

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Hairy grandpa is too humble. He’s a very knowledgeable guy, I’d listen to him.

That said, he didn’t really talk about prolactin, which may or may not be an issue. With everything he has said, it probably wouldn’t even be needed, I imagine a protocol like what he laid out would be enough. But I’ve heard lots of guys get significant libido boosts from prolactin inhibitors. A fairly cheap and easy way to test is look for a mucuna pruriens/L-Dopa supplement. That’s the only supplement I’m aware of that reduces prolactin. Worth looking into for libido issues I think.
Not to mention crying like a woman dumped on prom night if clomid doesn't agree with you.
 
hairygrandpa

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Hairy grandpa is too humble. He’s a very knowledgeable guy, I’d listen to him.

That said, he didn’t really talk about prolactin, which may or may not be an issue. With everything he has said, it probably wouldn’t even be needed, I imagine a protocol like what he laid out would be enough. But I’ve heard lots of guys get significant libido boosts from prolactin inhibitors. A fairly cheap and easy way to test is look for a mucuna pruriens/L-Dopa supplement. That’s the only supplement I’m aware of that reduces prolactin. Worth looking into for libido issues I think.
Not humble -but sometimes wrong -or at least "a bit wrong", like my last claim :"tadalafil ups libido", because it doesn't, it helps erection, small difference. Wrong wording in the heat of writing, sorry for that.

I would not fiddle with prolactin as much. I heard that a sudden drop in estrogen (AI use) could up prolactin.
My thinking is, you cant drop your e2 that often to provoke a continued rise in prolactin, to the point it matters, unless a 19-nor compound is involved. Like trestolone, when people throw tons of AI on it to avoid gyno, later ending up lactating (like I did). It could play a role in libido, as cabergoline and prami give some users boners.


Not to mention crying like a woman dumped on prom night if clomid doesn't agree with you.
Well, that can happen. Very depending on the individual. One of the reasons I'm sold to proviron, as it enhances male emotional states (alpha feeling), countering the "puzzification" clomid could cause.
 

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