My blood test results at 19

eliteballa3

New member
im 19 these levels are abnormal it seems, i go to endo on oct 4 to hopefully get on trt or some type of things to boost my test anways here are my results.
strogen-107(130 or less is normal),
fsh-10.3(1.6-8.0),
Estadirol-8(10-50),
lh-3.3(1.5-9.3),
Prolactin-11.3(2.0-18),
total free-251(250-1100),
Total Free percent-2.19(1.10-2.80),
free test-54.9(35-155)

I think i def qualify for some type of test enhancment even kno im 19 these levels are at levels of a 80 yr old despite all that im still pretty strong and have decent mass which is good.175 bench 200,sqt over 300 30 inch vertical n2b hope this theapy turns me into a beast
post your feed back
thanks.
 
I think i def qualify for some type of test enhancment even kno im 19 these levels are at levels of a 80 yr old despite all that im still pretty strong and have decent mass which is good.175 bench 200,sqt over 300 30 inch vertical n2b hope this theapy turns me into a beast
post your feed back
thanks.[/QUOTE]
So... your stong, and you have decent mass... at the age of 19. You squat over 300... you wiegh 175 and bench 200. Dude, think about that for a second. Doesnt sound to me like you need steroids. At age 19? thats freakin awesome. You havent even come close to reaching your potential yet.

You are not posting your diet, your training regiment, anything. Everything you showed was within normal limits. Stop jerking off and watch the natural test grow.
 
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT !!! are you trying to hurt yourself at such an early age. You are not supposed to be even thinking about trt or even posting about that !!!! If you have had progress why are you trying to accelerate it with some serious **** !!! I know i aint your mama, but keep supplementing with protein, some creatine, a multivitamin, and keep lifting hard you will get your mass, stop thinking about a short cut. Even if you did do a cycle you have to bust your ass. I know i am not the only one that thinks this way !!!
 
It's possible that your levels haven't even topped out yet as an adult, so there is a chance that is the case...and if this is the case, supplementing with exogenous T would probably stunt the process and may effect you your whole life.

With that being said, I would say that there is still a chance that you may need supplementation, but IMHO you should wait until the age of 22-25 and get your levels checked once again to base your final conclusion on the whole matter. But I'm sure your endo will know this and make the appropriatte decisions on what to do...good luck and let us know what the findings are.
 
Is this your first time looking at your bloodwork or having it pulled?

What if it happens to be stress or other factors in your life that caused the test to be skewed? Before doing something as serious as TRT, why don't you look at changing your diet and/or lifestyle first? Drop the alchohol if you are drinking too....

Take some time to eat some good foods that increase T. levels naturally. Brocolli, Spinish.. muscles are some that come to mind. Look at reducing stress and getting adequate rest.

Just some ideas to try for a while...
 
There may be actions occurring in your life or diet that are influencing the low testosterone levels.
 
dont drink i did change my diet to mostly fats and proteins just this week the nhe diet which suppose to raise your test 250 is extremly low for test isnt it also after dieting and using sesathin i noticedi couldnt ejactulate anymore so i had my test levels done and turns out there horible i mean im not making and desions yet but we will c what doc will do.
 
Apowerz6 said:
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT !!! are you trying to hurt yourself at such an early age. You are not supposed to be even thinking about trt or even posting about that !!!! If you have had progress why are you trying to accelerate it with some serious **** !!! I know i aint your mama, but keep supplementing with protein, some creatine, a multivitamin, and keep lifting hard you will get your mass, stop thinking about a short cut. Even if you did do a cycle you have to bust your ass. I know i am not the only one that thinks this way !!!
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WTF are you talking about?

If he has low test levels naturally, it is in his BEST INTEREST to have MEDICAL HELP. (Not self Rx or cycling AAS on his own, but medical help to get him in the normal range--low testosterone can be a very detrimental thing, especially for a young kid.).

eliteballa3:
And, I don't think this has anything to do with Test "not being topped out", your test levels should be at their highest around now. They max out between 18 and 21.

Get another test, make sure these results are you "normal levels" and if you need to go on TRT at 19, then you need to go on TRT and that's all there is to it.

Hopefully a good endocrinologist can kick-start your HPTA. it is possible, despite the so-called "conventional wisdom" which states otherwise. This is exactly what SWALE does. He gets people with low natural test to normal levels and tries to get them off TRT altoghether.

AGAIN, make sure you talk to a good endocrinologist first, and don't just start treatment based off of ONE TEST or ONE DOCTOR. If there is a legimate medical concern, then you have a legitimate medical reason to get TRT.

If they say "you're normal" and "don't worry about it" (they meaning the array of endo's you saw / will see), then leave it at that and do not attempt to fix it if the doctor said its not broken.
 
:goodpost:

btw.. I def wasn't say to not go see a doc, was just seeing if you had other influences that could be a factor. And good job not drinking :clap:
 
400runner said:
dont start HRT...thats retarted at such a young age.
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Why? Do you have any reason aside from "well...just seems like that from what I've heard", because that's the kind of thing I'm getting from a few people here.

If you were 12 with osteoporosis, you'll still get treated as if you have osteoporosis.

Why would you NOT be treated as a person with low testosterone, despite HAVING low testosterone, just because you're young?

If you were 14 and your test levels should be above 200ng/dl to be "normal" (frankly, that means to "develope" normally, too!) then you should get TRT if then endo says so if you were below that number.

you NEED to have certain test levels to develope and function normally at any given age.

And, aside from synthetic testosterone using a different carbon isomer (I think they use 16 and the body tends to 18, or something around those lines) the two hormones are IDENTICAL and act IDENTICALLY. So, TRT is a big yes at any given age if your body is not producing the proper amount of testosterone.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Why? Do you have any reason aside from "well...just seems like that from what I've heard", because that's the kind of thing I'm getting from a few people here.

If you were 12 with osteoporosis, you'll still get treated as if you have osteoporosis.

Why would you NOT be treated as a person with low testosterone, despite HAVING low testosterone, just because you're young?

If you were 14 and your test levels should be above 200ng/dl to be "normal" (frankly, that means to "develope" normally, too!) then you should get TRT if then endo says so if you were below that number.

you NEED to have certain test levels to develope and function normally at any given age.

And, aside from synthetic testosterone using a different carbon isomer (I think they use 16 and the body tends to 18, or something around those lines) the two hormones are IDENTICAL and act IDENTICALLY. So, TRT is a big yes at any given age if your body is not producing the proper amount of testosterone.
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What you're failing to see thought kwycke, is that exogeneous T, will shut you down...no matter what the dose is...this will then lead to the stunting of any further natty T development...as well as other serious health concerns such as brain/mental maturity, bone growth, etc....the male body is not done maturing until the age of 25 for most...not so much physically, but more in regards to brain activity/thyroid output, nodules, etc..

So if the kid is still producing "acceptable" levels then he should probably do all he can before resorting to full blown HRT....even if it's for a short amount of time...say 2-3 more years to see if he is just a late bloomer. There is a reason why we do not condone AAS for younger guys...synthetic T will cause very serious health problems if the subject isn't totally matured...this is why I say it might bet best for him to wait it out for a couple more years.
 
size said:
There may be actions occurring in your life or diet that are influencing the low testosterone levels.
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This is the point. I DEFINITLY wouldn't dismiss HRT, but evaluate the other areas first.
 
i def. agree !!! All i am saying is that exogenous will shut him down when he has not reached his Full potential yet. His ranges were normal so hrt should be last resort.
 
lifted said:
What you're failing to see thought kwycke, is that exogeneous T, will shut you down...no matter what the dose is...this will then lead to the stunting of any further natty T development...as well as other serious health concerns such as brain/mental maturity, bone growth, etc....the male body is not done maturing until the age of 25 for most...not so much physically, but more in regards to brain activity/thyroid output, nodules, etc..

So if the kid is still producing "acceptable" levels then he should probably do all he can before resorting to full blown HRT....even if it's for a short amount of time...say 2-3 more years to see if he is just a late bloomer. There is a reason why we do not condone AAS for younger guys...synthetic T will cause very serious health problems if the subject isn't totally matured...this is why I say it might bet best for him to wait it out for a couple more years.
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Swale would probably say differently.

And, I too 'thought' exo hormones will shut you down, regardless of dose, BUT then I realized that the study I read where patient were treated with test were "intentionally" shutdown by the experimentors.

I've yet to see proof that hrt level test administration will shut down HPTA so long as test levels are WITHIN NORMAL RANGE.
 
Apowerz6 said:
i def. agree !!! All i am saying is that exogenous will shut him down when he has not reached his Full potential yet. His ranges were normal so hrt should be last resort.
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And, that's why I said he should get more tests. He was barely withing 250...he got 251. At 19 that's damn low. edit: Although, units of free test are what are "really" important....that's why an endo is so important here.

I'd still recommend seeing a good endocrinologist.

If treatment is necessary, its necessary and that's all there is to it. Age should not be a factor.

When taking drugs that will put you at supraphysiological levels at a young (under-developed) age, THEN we have a problem.
 
Good point, that is why [in theory] you should continue to have a healthy sperm count even if you are on TRT.

if your TRT is a gram week, well that's a different story.

go see an endo but make sure you accurately discuss your current lifestyle with him
 
Your levels are on the low side so go and see a professional endo and discuss your options. No one here should be giving advice on whether or not it's a good thing to go on HRT because many factors play in here.

When you go see the Doc I'd appreciate you posting what his recommendations are. I am interested to see what he suggests for teenager.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Swale would be to differ.

And, I too 'thought' exo hormones will shut you down, regardless of dose, BUT then I realized that the study I read where patient were treated with test were "intentionally" shutdown by the experimentors.

I've yet to see proof that hrt level test administration will shut down HPTA so long as test levels are WITHIN NORMAL RANGE.
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Swale has never to my knowledge ever stated that normal range doses won't cause supression...in fact, he says the exact oppositte...there was a thread just last week or so that had quoted him saying that HRT doses do shut the patient down...where did you see him say otherwise...I would like to read it.

And bro, the proof is in the various studies...any dose of exogenous T will cause supression...

Sperm count can still be normal while being supressed.
 
Swale's job is to get people producing again.

He does that while administering (on average) 100mg/wk of Test to his clients and 250IU of hCG 2x/wk.

If your theory is correct, how could they EVER recover?
 
A second opinion would be great, I agree, I just don't want the guy having TRT for the rest of his life, because he started at 19 if he was making alright gains. I am more in agreeance with waiting until 23-25 then seeing if levels go up, or down then start trt. You (kwyckmyned)do make some good points, i just didnt want a 19 year old thinking trt was going to make him SWOLE, if he hadnt trained, or built a proper foundation. Thats all....
 
Look at your diet - maybe you are zinc deficient
Get that test level tested again...
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Swale's job is to get people producing again.

He does that while administering (on average) 100mg/wk of Test to his clients and 250IU of hCG 2x/wk.

If your theory is correct, how could they EVER recover?
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He uses HCG to do this, not both.
 
The test is there to keep healthy levels, it does not prevent the hCG from doing its job. hCG simply keeps endogenous levels of testosterone normal and i believe it helps keep sperm production high (the result being testicular volumization).

All of the studies i've found on further suppression of the HPTA has been in "eugonadal" men. If a person in normal ranges adds 100mg/wk of testosterone into their systems, they are no longer in their normal range.

I've yet to find one example of where a hypogonadal man experienced additional suppression from TRT given at a dose that is just enough to keep a person in the normal range.

There would have to be some sort of mechanism to identify an exogenous source of test in the blood from an edogenously produced test molecule. And, I'm unaware of any such thing existing. I mean, what would they do? Write a message on a neutrons in the C atoms? lol.

Other than T concentration in relation to a persons "normal range" I know of no such mechanism for identification of endogenous v. exogenous sources of testosterone.

I mean, in laboratories they can do it with sensitive equipment. If a molecule of testosterone is off bo so many daltons in weight, then they know that it is synthetic. But what does the body do?

I wouldn't mind being wrong on this subject one bit. But, I just don't see how "any amount" of exogenous testosterone can shut a person down. There would have to be an identifier to differentiate, and I coudn't even begin to speculate the purpose of HPTA supression due to synthetic testosterone introduction. It doesn't make any sense that exogenous test would cause a person to shutdown unless it was enough to make their body recognize the concentrtion as "supraphysiological" and shutdown production to attempt to maintain homeostasis.

Again, I've not been able to find a singe study that has dealth with these details.

i have seen studies that recognize the obvious fact that eugonadal men introducing more testosterone into their bodies resulting in supression of the HPTA, but that's because the testosterone introduced into their bodies is more testosterone "in addition to" what they normally take.

It doesn't take much. 100mg/wk of Test E can bring a completely supressed individual to have test levels around the 500ng/dl mark. So, imagine putting 100mg/wk of Test into a eugonadal man, of course he will suffer from shutdown.

I may be having a hard time communicating my point, so I'll try to restate it one last time:

I see no reason that testosterone will shut down HPTA just because it is from an exogenous source. The body does not know how to differentiate between exogenous and endogenous sources of testosterone. The resultant supression comes from the additional testosterone being introduced and the overall concentration being supraphysiological, according to that persons body. I"ve never seen one single study that shows "exogenous" being the problem.

So, if eliteballa3 can get endo help and get in the normal range while they treat the HPTA, I don't see how the TRT will be such a horrible thing.
 
great post Kwycke, I tend to agree - we been researching this for a few months now. People seem to have the notion that HRT/TRT should be age dependent. This is simply ignorant (not calling anyone here stupid).

Who is the better candidate for HRT?
I. A 75year old who has test in the 400-600range
II. A 19year old who has test in the 100-250range

the answer is obvious

just because it's a 'lifetime commitment' and typically for older individuals shouldn't discourage people in their 20s from at least looking into it. While it's a lifetime commitment - it could be a lifetime improvement.
 
kwycke, I see your point, and I know exactly what you mean. But the fact is that any amount of exo T will cause supression due to aromitization....you can dismiss this fact all you want, but this is where you and I disagree. Swale has also stated this as his findings. HCG does not keep you from getting shutdown when exo T is being administered. This has been argued THOUSANDS of times on every board out there...and for some reason, it keeps getting brought back up over and over...I see your point but my thoughts as well as most endo's are the same here.

You ask that how does the body tell the difference between the two...>>>>Noone has absolutely zero (0) natty T levels...even when you are shutdown, a subject will still have miniscule amounts being produced...and when administering more exogenous T this will only cause the body to recognize a boost and will cause the HPTA to cause further supression, not to mention the initial aromitization.
 
That may be the case, but I'm just looking for something to prove it to me. I've not been able to find it...maybe someone can help me out here?

If the simple fact that T is exo T causes shutdown, I would be curious to know how and why. I've not been able to find anything about any of this other than a few studies where eugonadal men were shutdown when given 100mg/wk of testosterone (enough to get a person in teh 100s to the 500s, a huge increase).

And, I don't know if it was directed at me, but I know hCG doesn't stop shutdown from occuring. It does nothing to stimulate the HPTA. It just keeps endogenous test production going through direct stimulation, but does nothing to effect the HPTA.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
That may be the case, but I'm just looking for something to prove it to me. I've not been able to find it...maybe someone can help me out here?

If the simple fact that T is exo T causes shutdown, I would be curious to know how and why. I've not been able to find anything about any of this other than a few studies where eugonadal men were shutdown when given 100mg/wk of testosterone (enough to get a person in teh 100s to the 500s, a huge increase).

And, I don't know if it was directed at me, but I know hCG doesn't stop shutdown from occuring. It does nothing to stimulate the HPTA. It just keeps endogenous test production going through direct stimulation, but does nothing to effect the HPTA.
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I think if you search this board, there are actually studies posted clarifying this...I already looked a while ago to show you, but when I type in PCT, or swale, or getting T back, etc...I get literally a hundred some threads...lol.

I would e-mail swale and ask him..he should be able to explain in depth and easy enough for us lay guys to understand better...because I honestly do not know the whole scheme of things either, but as far as the whole HCG + exo T = supression, I understand the basic concept.
 
What's so bad about getting your T production shut down when your production is already low and causing you to feel like ****? If a person goes on TRT it's for life, so why does it matter if your HPTA is shut down?
 
eliteballa3 said:
dont drink i did change my diet to mostly fats and proteins just this week the nhe diet which suppose to raise your test 250 is extremly low for test isnt it also after dieting and using sesathin i noticedi couldnt ejactulate anymore so i had my test levels done and turns out there horible i mean im not making and desions yet but we will c what doc will do.
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Notice this. After a change of diet and starting sesathin suplementation he couldnt ejaculate. This sounds like borderline test shutdown.... He took his blood levels because of this....

It sounds like this guy needs to stop this diet and sesathin for 4 weeks, then get his levels rechecked. Those 2 things were the factor that changed his body chemestry enough to make him get an exam.
 
eliteballa3 said:
im 19 these levels are abnormal it seems, i go to endo on oct 4 to hopefully get on trt or some type of things to boost my test anways here are my results.
strogen-107(130 or less is normal),
fsh-10.3(1.6-8.0),
Estadirol-8(10-50),
lh-3.3(1.5-9.3),
Prolactin-11.3(2.0-18),
total free-251(250-1100),
Total Free percent-2.19(1.10-2.80),
free test-54.9(35-155)

I think i def qualify for some type of test enhancment even kno im 19 these levels are at levels of a 80 yr old despite all that im still pretty strong and have decent mass which is good.175 bench 200,sqt over 300 30 inch vertical n2b hope this theapy turns me into a beast
post your feed back
thanks.
Click to expand...
keep doing what your doing now, when i had my tests done when i was 19 mine were pretty low, there are alot of things that could cause this, in a month just go back and see if the results changed, if not you could always ask a doctor, but the point is your strong and seem to be on the right track without AAS
 
Your diet could have an impact on your test levels. I remeber back during my sophmore year in highschool, I went on a shitty diet for wrestling. As a result, I dropped 30 lbs in a month, and had a hard time ejaculating. I could get it up, but still had a hard time getting off. Good luck with this dude.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
That may be the case, but I'm just looking for something to prove it to me. I've not been able to find it...maybe someone can help me out here?

If the simple fact that T is exo T causes shutdown, I would be curious to know how and why. I've not been able to find anything about any of this other than a few studies where eugonadal men were shutdown when given 100mg/wk of testosterone (enough to get a person in teh 100s to the 500s, a huge increase).

And, I don't know if it was directed at me, but I know hCG doesn't stop shutdown from occuring. It does nothing to stimulate the HPTA. It just keeps endogenous test production going through direct stimulation, but does nothing to effect the HPTA.
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the only mechanism for this action would be if your bodies "set point" (point of homeostasis) were lower than anothers. you can't compare 1 person to another person in respects to HPTA, because they might not be identical. it might take say 200ng/dl of test to induce negative feedback for person A, while it takes 450ng/dl for person B. and this is only the negative feedback mechanism dealing with androgens. you also have to factor in aromitization, as it has it's own feedback mechanism of controlling endogeneous test production.

my main point was while for one person, a doseage of say 50mg/week test will cause shutdown, for others it may not push their T levels over the threshold and cause negative feedback in the hypothalamus. it's all dependant on the individual

bottom line, go see a doc...
 
All I can see is that his total test is low. FSH is high, Free test is good, and Ediol is acceptable. When you view the entire profile it is not a serious problem. I don't think that the range is 250-whatever because 251 is unacceptable. In fact I don't think a worthwhile Endocrinologist would even consider HRT until he got EVERYTHING under control. I know how disconcerting it can be to find out you T-levels don't live up to your expectations, but at your age and with your stature, this is really no big deal. There are a million and one things that can influence your T-levels. I would be curous as to what your diet consisted of the week leading up to the test, when was the last time (and what was the last meal) you ate prior to the test, have you EVER taken any PH/PS/AAS/ATD/6-OXO/SERM and if so when, and what time of day was it when the blood was drawn? Don't uderestimate sleep's effect on hormone balance. If you are sleep deprived your body will be lacking the ability to create an effective balance. There is a large portion of very important info lacking from the 1st post, without it I don't think anyone should be arguing over HRT on this thread. The most telling thing in the post is your feeling that exogenous test will help to turn you into a "beast." Stick with what's been working now and concentrate on diet, recovery and stress reduction. Then if after all of that, if say in 6 months your levels are still IN THE LOW END OF THE RANGE, talk to an Endo about your options, but just like the resistance you have witnessed here, most medical professionals are somewhat afraid of steroids, even in controlled settings. Good Luck.
 
Well it all started when i went from a bulk with 5000 cals to 2500 cals when i started noticing it was 2 weeks of sesathing i had trouble getting up so then i was really worried. At 19 i shouldnt have these problems i got levels tested and the doc didnt do anything for me so i took some clomid and i notice that with cilas and atd my libdo was relaly coming back but when i stoped clomid and just used cilas effects were not nearly as good. Before i was dieting and going on sesathing my libdo was fine making huge gains on lifts etc. Also for past like 2 yrs i always avoided fats kinda when i was bulking i was eating fats protein and carbs and the cals i droped when i went from 5000-2500 cals in about lil over a month and they were all coming from fats the drop in cals. When i droped down and started using sesathin then i had trouble getting errections very hard for a 19yr old. Before i got on clomid and atd to try to fix things i got levels tested. They were what i showed u so i started incopariting alot of fats back into my diet about 3/4 my cals from fat. Im on the nhe diet so far im liking it alot i feel lot of energy despite 0-20g carbs a day. I think that im on the right track i c endo oct 4th hope he put me on something to help my levels we c wht he does ill keep all u updated weekly on how things are going.
 
ATD is known to decrease libido...and you shouldn't be using clomid, ATD, etc at the young age of 19...
 
So there was more to this story...


Your diet changed and then you started feeling like crap. Also low fat, high fiber diets have been shown to decrease testosterone. Couple that with a decrease in total caloric intake and it begins to make sense.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Jun;90(6):3550-9. Epub 2005 Mar 1.Invalid Link Removed Links

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[size=+1]Low-fat high-fiber diet decreased serum and urine androgens in men.[/size]

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Department of Medicine and Pediatrics and the General Clinical Research Center, Harbor-University of California at Los Angeles Medical Center and Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute, Torrance, California 90509, USA. [email protected]

To validate our hypothesis that reduction in dietary fat may result in changes in androgen metabolism, 39 middle-aged, white, healthy men (50-60 yr of age) were studied while they were consuming their usual high-fat, low-fiber diet and after 8 wk modulation to an isocaloric low-fat, high-fiber diet. Mean body weight decreased by 1 kg, whereas total caloric intake, energy expenditure, and activity index were not changed. After diet modulation, mean serum testosterone (T) concentration fell (P < 0.0001), accompanied by small but significant decreases in serum free T (P = 0.0045), 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (P = 0.0053), and adrenal androgens (androstendione, P = 0.0135; dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, P = 0.0011). Serum estradiol and SHBG showed smaller decreases. Parallel decreases in urinary excretion of some testicular and adrenal androgens were demonstrated. Metabolic clearance rates of T were not changed, and production rates for T showed a downward trend while on low-fat diet modulation. We conclude that reduction in dietary fat intake (and increase in fiber) results in 12% consistent lowering of circulating androgen levels without changing the clearance.
 
A couple of important things, first, make sure they draw the lab as early in the morning as possible. Preferrably before 10am.Test is cyclical, unless you are injecting it, and it is highest in the morning. Also, I think it may be a good idea to try a low dose of Clomid, with medical supervision, for a month or two, to see if your body responds, this will also help determine which type of hypogonadism you may have, primary or secondary. Before you end up putting a needle in your butt once a week for the rest of your life, 52 shots a year x hopefully 50 years, is a lot of shots, make darn sure, that you get a couple of labs done, at the proper time, and while following a proper diet.
 
eliteballa3 said:
Well it all started when i went from a bulk with 5000 cals to 2500 cals when i started noticing it was 2 weeks of sesathing i had trouble getting up so then i was really worried. At 19 i shouldnt have these problems i got levels tested and the doc didnt do anything for me so i took some clomid and i notice that with cilas and atd my libdo was relaly coming back but when i stoped clomid and just used cilas effects were not nearly as good. Before i was dieting and going on sesathing my libdo was fine making huge gains on lifts etc. Also for past like 2 yrs i always avoided fats kinda when i was bulking i was eating fats protein and carbs and the cals i droped when i went from 5000-2500 cals in about lil over a month and they were all coming from fats the drop in cals. When i droped down and started using sesathin then i had trouble getting errections very hard for a 19yr old. Before i got on clomid and atd to try to fix things i got levels tested. They were what i showed u so i started incopariting alot of fats back into my diet about 3/4 my cals from fat. Im on the nhe diet so far im liking it alot i feel lot of energy despite 0-20g carbs a day. I think that im on the right track i c endo oct 4th hope he put me on something to help my levels we c wht he does ill keep all u updated weekly on how things are going.
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AHHA the darkness comes to the light.... I def. agree with Lifted, and JonesersRX7, you're Diet might be the blame as well as self diagnosing. Go to the doc,and get your diet right with better spectrum of protein, more carbs, and healthy fats. Good Luck to ya...
 
i got levels tested at 8am i went on a this for a while after finding i had low levels 2 rxt ed 150mg clomid 100,clomid 50 then off and then i started ultra hotter at 3 caps a day then the next week i went to 6 a day then drop to like 3 one night then just stoped cause i dont kno what i was doing reall and if t was helping or not. But it seemed clomid along with rxt really helped my libdo but i felt depresed quite a bit right now my diet consits of alot of fats so i hope thats gonna help we will c i mean this all started happening maybe early to middle july id say. Lemme know what you think im still going to the endo oct 4 we c what he says. If he says go on Trt i have no problem and ill do that id prob be a heck of alot stronger if i was at the levels which i should be for my age. But yea i changed diet around this week to more high fat and protein vs low fat type diet and the deuction in those 1-2mths was mostly eggs i reduced. N 2 years before that i was mostly just eating low fat type diet all the time now im starting to eat a high fat diet have decent energy but i mean i dont kno if its gonna change my test that much mayby another 50 pts but thats nothin will c please post comments.
 
gah!!

Your shorthand/spelling strains my brain trying to understand what you are saying... :eek:


Well I really don't think much else needs to be said. Many of us have given speculations and it seems to me it's diet. I think it's best you continue with a good diet and lay off all the SERMS and AI's. Get them retested and see an Endo and get back to us with an update. I'm interested to see what happens.
 
chasec said:
the only mechanism for this action would be if your bodies "set point" (point of homeostasis) were lower than anothers. you can't compare 1 person to another person in respects to HPTA, because they might not be identical. it might take say 200ng/dl of test to induce negative feedback for person A, while it takes 450ng/dl for person B. and this is only the negative feedback mechanism dealing with androgens. you also have to factor in aromitization, as it has it's own feedback mechanism of controlling endogeneous test production.

my main point was while for one person, a doseage of say 50mg/week test will cause shutdown, for others it may not push their T levels over the threshold and cause negative feedback in the hypothalamus. it's all dependant on the individual

bottom line, go see a doc...
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Exactly the point I was making in earlier posts :)

There is no mechanism (as far as I know) that distinguishes endo from exo test in the body; the body only knows supraphysiological, low, and normal (for ITS specific setpoint). I'm sure HPTA can be conditioned, however, to change the setpoint. That's why there are endocrinologists :)
 
You are aware that they are called STEROID hormones because they are made from STEROL's (fat based hormones), right? The fact that you altered your diet so drastically prior to your drop in T is VERY significant. It means that until you get your diet on track, you will not be able to truly asess your hormonal environment. For starters, don't play around with ANYTHING that will upset the balance that your body has already set up. I don't think that omitting a macronutrient from your diet is the best way to go about eating. I think that understanding the metabolic mechanisms of all macros and eating according is best. You should eat good carbs. Look at a diet that Bobo gives to his clients. You said that your diet consists of 3/4 fat. I hope that was a mistake. If you get 2500 cals a day and it is 3/4 fat that only leaves you with about 156 grams of protein/carbs and if you ingest 18 grams of carbs you end up with 138 grams of protein and about 208 grams of fat. This is NOT a bodybuilding diet. There is a reason that your understanding of diet needs to come before your consideration of exogenous hormones. Yes you would be stronger on Test, but you would also probably be more careless with your diet. Start where the problem begins, not where it ends.
 
make sure your getting plenty of cholesterol. cholesterol is a direct precursor to test.
 
my diet is abour 30-40g f each meal and 30-40g protein and bout 20g carbs for the day 6 meals total. just for this week then next week i start to have carb load days were at end of day i eat a huge thing of pasta im doing the nhe diet so far and its working great im keeping mass while slowly taking away some bf i can already tell every morning i look a lil more ripped up and still have my mass have good energy nd i think its working great.

Thigns on my diet im eating olive oil,eggs-12 a day usually,beef lean beef,chicken and almonds and at night cottage chesee thats usually what my meals conist of.
 
sorry to dig up an old post. but eliteballa, what were your results when you went back to the doc on october 4th and what did you decide to end up doing?
 
Well - now that we've dug this old-azz thread out from the dead...I'd like to comment on this quote:

chasec said:
make sure your getting plenty of cholesterol. cholesterol is a direct precursor to test.
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Bah!
If you want to raise your cholesterol - consume saturated and trans fats. Don't worry about the cholesterol in foods.
 
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