MSTEN TD

[goodvibes]

Anyone has any experience on running this solo? I'm trying to find a good dosage scheme online and I'm struggling to find any.

 

[Brain5ick]

In for the info

 

[goodvibes]

So I haven't come across a true verdict for this so I'll make myself a Guinea pig with a little twist.

I'll write up my cycle tonight which I already started last Thursday.

 

[jtbull]

in for info. I am going to be going on trt and while i am making "connections" i will be running research chems and prohormones.

 

[goodvibes]

in for info. I am going to be going on trt and while i am making "connections" i will be running research chems and prohormones.

Connections as in getting sources?

 

[goodvibes]

Current cycle:

30mg of msten TD split into two dose.
10mg oral msten
75-100mg of trest a day

Arimidex on hand and formestane still a good amount leftover.

I incorporated the 10mg of oral msten just in case this TD version is no bueno. I'll be running TD for a month, then if I didnt feel any sides or proper effect from it I will switch to pure oral msten to 20mg/day.

 

[bobi593]

Current cycle:

30mg of msten TD split into two dose.
10mg oral msten
75-100mg of trest a day

Arimidex on hand and formestane still a good amount leftover.

I incorporated the 10mg of oral msten just in case this TD version is no bueno. I'll be running TD for a month, then if I didnt feel any sides or proper effect from it I will switch to pure oral msten to 20mg/day.

injectable trest?

 

[goodvibes]

injectable trest?

Transdermal

 

[Djnickuk]

In. I love msten. But my liver does not. So I wonder if the td version is easier on the liver.

 

[goodvibes]

Djnickuk It definitely should be, the question is how much is now bioavailable and at how high a dose is proper.

 

[goodvibes]

A little update, I'm 6 days in and today I'm feeling better pumps. Strength is slightly up too. Dosage remains the same and I'm not feeling any sides. Normally my BP would be elevated to a point where I'd feel irregular but so far so good. In totality I am running 40mg msten but I'm only expecting half of the TD to be fully absorbed.

 

[bobi593]

A little update, I'm 6 days in and today I'm feeling better pumps. Strength is slightly up too. Dosage remains the same and I'm not feeling any sides. Normally my BP would be elevated to a point where I'd feel irregular but so far so good. In totality I am running 40mg msten but I'm only expecting half of the TD to be fully absorbed.

Are you using NOS Msten?

 

[goodvibes]

Are you using NOS Msten?

Yes its from NOS. To my knowledge they're the only one who makes the TD version.

 

[bigbeaph]

Yes its from NOS. To my knowledge they're the only one who makes the TD version.

Darn shame they closed down. Good guys, good reliable products

 

[goodvibes]

Darn shame they closed down. Good guys, good reliable products

Do you know any post about the dosage on this thing? I dont know if I can get away with zero orals at all.

 

[bigbeaph]

Do you know any post about the dosage on this thing? I dont know if I can get away with zero orals at all.

I really have no idea. All I can offer is speculation so I'll keep to myself

 

[bobi593]

Do you know any post about the dosage on this thing? I dont know if I can get away with zero orals at all.

Google , vicious labs forum nos msten

 

[goodvibes]

Google , vicious labs forum nos msten

That was the only link I saw before I made this thread and it required registration and verification. It was a hassle and after two tries I gave up.

 

[goodvibes]

I really have no idea. All I can offer is speculation so I'll keep to myself

Speculate away. I feel it does work if that's what you were speculating. I'm insanely pumped more than usual and it's only been 7 days. If I can run this TD I can extend the cycle to about 7-8 weeks. I'll just monitor my bp.

 

[bigbeaph]

Old Witch has schooled me on some issues regarding bioavailability...maybe this will be up his alley. At least regarding what you can expect from the td and then how to dose.

 

[goodvibes]

Old Witch has schooled me on some issues regarding bioavailability...maybe this will be up his alley. At least regarding what you can expect from the td and then how to dose.

Ohh I'm not an expert but TD bioavailability is a crapshoot. A methylated compound like msten is definitely a more efficient route g per g dosing but the TD does have one big advantage and that's removing the hepatoxicity factor.

My normal dose for msten is 20mg/day so for this run I counted the TD to have around 30-50% bioavailability giving me around 10-15mg. Then I added the 10mg oral to throw me on the ideal dosage.

 

[bigbeaph]

Ohh I'm not an expert but TD bioavailability is a crapshoot. A methylated compound like msten is definitely a more efficient route g per g dosing but the TD does have one big advantage and that's removing the hepatoxicity factor.

I understand. My line of thinking....something like dienolone (non-methyl) I've tried oral and td. Doesnt even feel like the same compound when going td because it's just THAT much stronger. But my understanding is that the methylated have nearly 100% absorption oral so this would be backwards with these compounds. You mentioned 40% earlier, I've seen that as an average for td application. But theres going to be a lot of variables. But if that's the case then you'd be getting roughly 22mg msten in your system with the way you are doing it (30 td & 10 oral) I'd think your at a great starting spot but may want to adjust up after a week or so based on how you are feeling it. Like you said - pretty much a crapshoot!

 

[Old Witch]

Ohh I'm not an expert but TD bioavailability is a crapshoot. A methylated compound like msten is definitely a more efficient route g per g dosing but the TD does have one big advantage and that's removing the hepatoxicity factor.

My normal dose for msten is 20mg/day so for this run I counted the TD to have around 30-50% bioavailability giving me around 10-15mg. Then I added the 10mg oral to throw me on the ideal dosage.

That’s very flawed reasoning. Transdermal application is much more effective than oral provided the accelerant is adequate. 20mg TD is going to be quite a bit more effective than oral. And less toxic. Just because it’s methylated doesn’t mean it fully survives the first pass through the liver. Some of it is still inactivated. Transdermal would decrease inactivation by 10-20x

 

[jtbull]

Connections as in getting sources?

Yes I am on some other boards where there is talk of that. A couple gyms in my area also have some top npc and a couple IFBB guys ( n o one like super well known) so i figure I should meet the right people at some time.

I take it msten is methylated. Now with methylated typically are cycles 4 weeks or can you go up to 6? Also what is the thought on the most powerful non methylated pro hormone domestic or from that site we have on here that sells to the usa from britian? I heard there is one that converts to dboll but is expensive as hell. Right now msten, superdrol, and epistaine along with some sarms are my top picks. I am learning more about yk11 and s23 as i go.

There was mention of the liver hating the oral. Will talking milk thistle help at all ?

 

[goodvibes]

That’s very flawed reasoning. Transdermal application is much more effective than oral provided the accelerant is adequate. 20mg TD is going to be quite a bit more effective than oral. And less toxic. Just because it’s methylated doesn’t mean it fully survives the first pass through the liver. Some of it is still inactivated. Transdermal would decrease inactivation by 10-20x

Sounds interesting but I'd say we're both speculating how much of the real compound is fully absorbed. I totally understand your reasoning though.

With that said, you're basically saying the 20mg of oral is equal to a 2mg of TD version.

 

[goodvibes]

Yes I am on some other boards where there is talk of that. A couple gyms in my area also have some top npc and a couple IFBB guys ( n o one like super well known) so i figure I should meet the right people at some time.

I take it msten is methylated. Now with methylated typically are cycles 4 weeks or can you go up to 6? Also what is the thought on the most powerful non methylated pro hormone domestic or from that site we have on here that sells to the usa from britian? I heard there is one that converts to dboll but is expensive as hell. Right now msten, superdrol, and epistaine along with some sarms are my top picks. I am learning more about yk11 and s23 as i go.

There was mention of the liver hating the oral. Will talking milk thistle help at all ?

Non methylated I'd say trestolone if you respond well to it. And as far as cycle support for liver you should still stick to TUDCA around 0.5 to 1g a day.

 

[Old Witch]

Sounds interesting but I'd say we're both speculating how much of the real compound is fully absorbed. I totally understand your reasoning though.

With that said, you're basically saying the 20mg of oral is equal to a 2mg of TD version.

If you took 1/6 the dose orally per hour for six hours or thereabouts, possibly.

It’s a proven fact for Methyl 1 Test that sub q injection significantly increased bioavailability and decreased liver toxicity, so I don’t see much reason other similar (msten is just M1T with a Methyl chain added to the 2 position so quite similar in fact) steroids would be very different. TD vs sub q injection is of course another factor to consider, however they generally have much closer percentages of bioavailability as routes of administration.

 

[2kvette]

If you took 1/6 the dose orally per hour for six hours or thereabouts, possibly.

It’s a proven fact for Methyl 1 Test that sub q injection significantly increased bioavailability and decreased liver toxicity, so I don’t see much reason other similar (msten is just M1T with a Methyl chain added to the 2 position so quite similar in fact) steroids would be very different. TD vs sub q injection is of course another factor to consider, however they generally have much closer percentages of bioavailability as routes of administration.

Can you link me to this? I want to read it; not picking at you. But I doubt liver toxicity would be decreased to any appreciable degree.

Fraction absorbed would go up though for sure; so lower dose needed.

 

[Old Witch]

Can you link me to this? I want to read it; not picking at you. But I doubt liver toxicity would be decreased to any appreciable degree.

Fraction absorbed would go up though for sure; so lower dose needed.

I believe this is the study, if not there’s another similar.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21990312

 

[Old Witch]

And here’s the Oxford university press write up on that study.

https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/152/12/4718/2457367

 

[Old Witch]

Can’t remember if it was Oxford or the initial research team who used the word “significantly” as to the difference in toxicity.

 

[goodvibes]

If you took 1/6 the dose orally per hour for six hours or thereabouts, possibly.

It’s a proven fact for Methyl 1 Test that sub q injection significantly increased bioavailability and decreased liver toxicity, so I don’t see much reason other similar (msten is just M1T with a Methyl chain added to the 2 position so quite similar in fact) steroids would be very different. TD vs sub q injection is of course another factor to consider, however they generally have much closer percentages of bioavailability as routes of administration.

Kind of lost me on your 1/6th theory. I'm just asking if you really meant this: if I usually take 20mg/day orally and use that as my "good" dose, if I switched to TD then I would only need 2mg/day? I'd be shocked if you said yes to that.

 

[2kvette]

Sounds interesting but I'd say we're both speculating how much of the real compound is fully absorbed. I totally understand your reasoning though.

With that said, you're basically saying the 20mg of oral is equal to a 2mg of TD version.

By subq administration that would be true based on his PD studies he posted. I’ll admit, I’m blown away with this info.

We now know this is true as far as M1T is concerned.

 

[bigbeaph]

By subq administration that would be true based on his PD studies he posted. I’ll admit, I’m blown away with this info.

We now know this is true as far as M1T is concerned.

That is incredible... cool stuff

 

[goodvibes]

By subq administration that would be true based on his PD studies he posted. I’ll admit, I’m blown away with this info.

We now know this is true as far as M1T is concerned.

Subq yes, but for TD administration a lot of other factors play a big role. Carrier and application practice can drop this bioavailability dramatically. Although the data is there for subq I'm very hesitant to drop my TD dosing that low.

For now until I feel any unwanted side effects I will stay at ~10mg/day instead of 20mg/day.

 

[Old Witch]

Subq yes, but for TD administration a lot of other factors play a big role. Carrier and application practice can drop this bioavailability dramatically. Although the data is there for subq I'm very hesitant to drop my TD dosing that low.

For now until I feel any unwanted side effects I will stay at ~10mg/day instead of 20mg/day.

Oh I wasn’t saying drop your dose or anything. Just that what you’re getting is likely a whole lot more than you think. Gains are what matter, not how much you take. If you weren’t getting sides then don’t change anything.

 

[goodvibes]

Oh I wasn’t saying drop your dose or anything. Just that what you’re getting is likely a whole lot more than you think. Gains are what matter, not how much you take. If you weren’t getting sides then don’t change anything.

Oh yea I know you're not implying to drop my dose. I actually appreciate the input because I was able to cut my dose in half and trust it would still work. Im really just not ready to go 1/10th the amount and risk not getting gains lol. My cycle support costs way too much.