Msten/lmg or epistane/lmg

wfreiling

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Starting a new cycle October 1st. Looking to add some size with the main focus being strength. Which would you go for?
37yo 193lb 5’10
Bench 315
Ohp 225
Squat 405
 
wfreiling

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Thanks I was thinking of doing 20mg msten with 45mg lmg for 6wks followed by a pharma Clomid pct. I also have some epiandro or 4andro I could throw in for lethargy if you think it’s necessary
 

UNX

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MaxLMG is an anti progesterone and epistane anti estrogenic at receptor level. I don't know if that's a good combo for strength, no estrogen at all...
 
wfreiling

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MaxLMG is an anti progesterone and epistane anti estrogenic at receptor level. I don't know if that's a good combo for strength, no estrogen at all...
Ok so I currently have in my stash
Epistane
Msten
Lmg
Pstanz
4andro
Epiandro
Lgd
 

UNX

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Personally, I can't help because I don't know very much about MaxLMG, it's an obscure compound for me although sounds interesting. Vendors say MaxLMG is a dry and antiestrogenic steroids, but according to logs, it's quite wet.

How long will be your cycle? Using 4-andro as test base could be good, specially for long cycles.
 

Rockslide

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It’s very wet. It’s a progestin that is chemically similar to certain female birth controls but modified to act at the androgen receptors.

it can cause prolactin side effects, especially in the presence of estrogen. From what I have read on it is not thought to convert to estrogen but definitely causes estrogen like effects in some people including gyno. It might be that is acts as a synthetic estrogen on receptors rather than converting. This is the case with a drol... it’s a dht but acts like an estrogen (rather than what people believe that it converts)

I have seen some logs where people compare lmg to being a similar feel to deca
 
Hyde

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MaxLMG is an anti progesterone and epistane anti estrogenic at receptor level. I don't know if that's a good combo for strength, no estrogen at all...
Clearly you’ve never used either

Both are good for strength. Methoxygonadiene via the wet progestogenic size and Epistane via being a DHT derivative upregulating the nervous system. And Epistane competes with the estrogen receptors helping to prevent the gyno LMG will promote, while LMG will help some with the dry joint issues Epistane can cause.

They would be complimentary the way guys use deca & masteron together.

For max size, Msten & LMG. Strength would probably go epi & LMG. Honestly the right dose of all 3 combined for size and strength was popular as a triple-stack.

If you go Msten & LMG, I would add the Epiandro. If Epi & LMG, add 4Andro.
 
MadStax

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It’s very wet. It’s a progestin that is chemically similar to certain female birth controls but modified to act at the androgen receptors.

it can cause prolactin side effects, especially in the presence of estrogen. From what I have read on it is not thought to convert to estrogen but definitely causes estrogen like effects in some people including gyno. It might be that is acts as a synthetic estrogen on receptors rather than converting. This is the case with a drol... it’s a dht but acts like an estrogen (rather than what people believe that it converts)

I have seen some logs where people compare lmg to being a similar feel to deca
Which drug acts like this? I'm not following, but want to avoid it! Lol
 
wfreiling

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Clearly you’ve never used either

Both are good for strength. Methoxygonadiene via the wet progestogenic size and Epistane via being a DHT derivative upregulating the nervous system. And Epistane competes with the estrogen receptors helping to prevent the gyno LMG will promote, while LMG will help some with the dry joint issues Epistane can cause.

They would be complimentary the way guys use deca & masteron together.

For max size, Msten & LMG. Strength would probably go epi & LMG. Honestly the right dose of all 3 combined for size and strength was popular as a triple-stack.

If you go Msten & LMG, I would add the Epiandro. If Epi & LMG, add 4Andro.
Should’ve just asked you to start with
 
rubberring

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Thanks I was thinking of doing 20mg msten with 45mg lmg for 6wks...
Having used m-sten quite a few times, I'd highly recommend not going past 4 weeks. The strength/muscle gains will plateau and the sides will really kick in (loss of appetite, nausea, general unwell feeling for most). Diminished returns in a major way. In fact, I only run it for 3 weeks now to start off a TRT blast, and always with liver support (I recommend Hepatopro and TUDCA). The recomp effects that take place in those 3-4 weeks are pretty magical though. My $0.02.
 

UNX

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Clearly you’ve never used either

Both are good for strength. Methoxygonadiene via the wet progestogenic size and Epistane via being a DHT derivative upregulating the nervous system. And Epistane competes with the estrogen receptors helping to prevent the gyno LMG will promote, while LMG will help some with the dry joint issues Epistane can cause.
I've used epistane several times, and it can **** your joints pretty quick even with a test base, I only see it useful for cutting. Strength plus dry joints is a bad combo.
About MaxLMG, I'll never use a compound for which there's almost no data and the vendors sell it as just the opposite it really is.
 
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Renew1

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I've used epistane several times, and it can **** your joints pretty quick even with a test base, I only see it useful for cutting. Strength plus dry joints is a bad combo.
About MaxLMG, I'll never use a compound for which there's almost no data and the vendors sell it as just the opposite it really is.
Almost all vendors copy and paste the same regurgitated crap about LMG (word for word).
Ignore that.
 
Hyde

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Having used m-sten quite a few times, I'd highly recommend not going past 4 weeks. The strength/muscle gains will plateau and the sides will really kick in (loss of appetite, nausea, general unwell feeling for most). Diminished returns in a major way. In fact, I only run it for 3 weeks now to start off a TRT blast, and always with liver support (I recommend Hepatopro and TUDCA). The recomp effects that take place in those 3-4 weeks are pretty magical though. My $0.02.
^Agree with all of this heartily.

I've used epistane several times, and it can **** your joints pretty quick even with a test base, I only see it useful for cutting. Strength plus dry joints is a bad combo.
About MaxLMG, I'll never use a compound for which there's almost no data and the vendors sell it as just the opposite it really is.
That’s fine, but you aren’t really in a position to give useful feedback on it then, right? Nothing wrong with giving some caution to look out for a brother; just consider that isn’t the same thing as being able to advise what to expect if used.

I’m sorry if I came off as a dick btw.

Almost all vendors copy and paste the same regurgitated crap about LMG (word for word).
Ignore that.
Truth. Vicious is the only supplier I have seen with an honest assessment/description.
 

dvw

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Max lmg less than 75 mg daily will be disappointing. Definitely want prolactin control. It raises prolactin more than real deca
 
wfreiling

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Ok so here’s what I’m leaning towards,
Epistane 30-40mg 6wks
4andro 440mg 6wks
P-stanz (prostanozol) 200mg 6wks
And possibly Lmg maybe save for later
Pct will be pharma clomid 25mg day for a month

I think this cycle will give me the strength I’m looking for while continuing to recomp. Come winter I will use the msten for an all out bulk since I’m back in the northeast and that’s what you do.
Input is appreciated @Hyde @Renew1
 
Renew1

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Ok so here’s what I’m leaning towards,
Epistane 30-40mg 6wks
4andro 440mg 6wks
P-stanz (prostanozol) 200mg 6wks
And possibly Lmg maybe save for later
Pct will be pharma clomid 25mg day for a month

I think this cycle will give me the strength I’m looking for while continuing to recomp. Come winter I will use the msten for an all out bulk since I’m back in the northeast and that’s what you do.
Input is appreciated @Hyde @Renew1
It's looking good (at least so far), in my opinion.
 
Hyde

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Ok so here’s what I’m leaning towards,
Epistane 30-40mg 6wks
4andro 440mg 6wks
P-stanz (prostanozol) 200mg 6wks
And possibly Lmg maybe save for later
Pct will be pharma clomid 25mg day for a month

I think this cycle will give me the strength I’m looking for while continuing to recomp. Come winter I will use the msten for an all out bulk since I’m back in the northeast and that’s what you do.
Input is appreciated @Hyde @Renew1
I think the P-stanz will get outshined by the Epistane, so I wouldn’t bother with it unless you essentially just want more total juice and didn’t have more Epistane on hand.

As in, it will contribute more temporary strength being in there vs not, but it won’t affect your longterm gains either way.
 
wfreiling

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I think the P-stanz will get outshined by the Epistane, so I wouldn’t bother with it unless you essentially just want more total juice and didn’t have more Epistane on hand.

As in, it will contribute more temporary strength being in there vs not, but it won’t affect your longterm gains either way.
Ok I’ll hold onto it, honestly I was only throwing it in because I keep forgetting I have it.
I have 167 (110mg) caps of 4andro, that’s either 6wks at 440mg or 8wks at 330mg. I never ran it so I’m wondering which would be better?
 

SwoleMax

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It’s very wet. It’s a progestin that is chemically similar to certain female birth controls but modified to act at the androgen receptors.

it can cause prolactin side effects, especially in the presence of estrogen. From what I have read on it is not thought to convert to estrogen but definitely causes estrogen like effects in some people including gyno. It might be that is acts as a synthetic estrogen on receptors rather than converting. This is the case with a drol... it’s a dht but acts like an estrogen (rather than what people believe that it converts)

I have seen some logs where people compare lmg to being a similar feel to deca
" drol " ? d-drol ?
 

Rockslide

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" drol " ? d-drol ?
I had a drol ... should have been a-drol/anadrol.

its actually a modified dht and irrc can’t aromatize. It’s notorious for gyno though so it may independently act at the estrogen receptors to cause gyno and water retention (ER binding is responsible for anabolic effects too which can help build muscle)

as there are a lot of reports of max lmg causing estro like side effects in addition to its progestin related side effects I wonder if it has some degree of ER binding....
 
Rad83

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Having used m-sten quite a few times, I'd highly recommend not going past 4 weeks. The strength/muscle gains will plateau and the sides will really kick in (loss of appetite, nausea, general unwell feeling for most). Diminished returns in a major way. In fact, I only run it for 3 weeks now to start off a TRT blast, and always with liver support (I recommend Hepatopro and TUDCA). The recomp effects that take place in those 3-4 weeks are pretty magical though. My $0.02.
Did you run Msten before trt ? ...About how
much of the size and strength were you able to keep post cycle?

What do you like Tudca at 500mg or 1g ?
 
rubberring

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Did you run Msten before trt ? ...About how
much of the size and strength were you able to keep post cycle?

What do you like Tudca at 500mg or 1g ?
I've not run m-sten without a test base even before TRT. It's a really versatile steroid though, and I think it shines during a recomp where 'total pounds gained' is secondary to overall physique changes. It *can* be a mass builder, for sure. But without the presence of a lot of carbs, I've found it to be pretty dry, and the strength gains seem to last long after the 3-4 weeks *if* test levels remain elevated (or another compound is still being used).

Imo, 250-500mg of TUDCA is plenty. I've seen studies where they used less than 20mg.

Hope this helps.
 
Rad83

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I've not run m-sten without a test base even before TRT. It's a really versatile steroid though, and I think it shines during a recomp where 'total pounds gained' is secondary to overall physique changes. It *can* be a mass builder, for sure. But without the presence of a lot of carbs, I've found it to be pretty dry, and the strength gains seem to last long after the 3-4 weeks *if* test levels remain elevated (or another compound is still being used).

Imo, 250-500mg of TUDCA is plenty. I've seen studies where they used less than 20mg.

Hope this helps.
It does, thanks! ...I actually am more interested in the recomp/physique changes, refinement, so that’s great to hear.
 

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