Msten cycle

Bfitch

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Looking for some advice on Msten specifically BL. Gtg?
 
2manyprojects

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have you done msten cycle? Day 8 from BL 20mg with 300mg 4 andro and other than a couple better than normal workouts i don’t notice anything (not even any sides) Also taking organ shield and tudca.
I am on 20mg of sten now day 8 with 75mg of 3ad all vicious products. Currently just looking a little fuller
 
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Bfitch

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I’m one week in on VL Msten right now, only running 10mg so far and it is G2G. Strength, fullness and body weight are all steadily going up.
beginning week 3 of 20mg BL msten, Weight is up about 7lbs don’t really have any sides at all. VL msten will be here today. I do like the fact they are 10mg tabs as compared to 20mg for splitting up the dosing. Thinking maybe BL is underdosed or something to do with splitting pill. Unsure.
 

Bfitch

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I’m one week in on VL Msten right now, only running 10mg so far and it is G2G. Strength, fullness and body weight are all steadily going up.
Also been experiencing back pumps past 4 days or so. Going to start supplementing taurine.
 
BCseacow83

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beginning week 3 of 20mg BL msten, Weight is up about 7lbs don’t really have any sides at all. VL msten will be here today. I do like the fact they are 10mg tabs as compared to 20mg for splitting up the dosing. Thinking maybe BL is underdosed or something to do with splitting pill. Unsure.
You are up 7lbs in two weeks and you are doubting your drugs???? What did you expect to gain in two weeks? 7lbs in two weeks is fantastic for ANY CYCLE. You are doing well, keep eating to feed the gains and training hard and you will be happy in the end.
 
ANABOLICWRWLF

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Getting all ready for a VL Msten run myself and trying to decide between 4-andro (Iconic Alpha Four) and 4-AD ( Fusion Androtest) to add in to fight lethargy and give a little boost to the gainztrain. If I go with Androtest what would dosage look like stacked with msten? Planning to do msten a few days at 10mg, then bump to 20mg and possibly 30 for weeks 3 and 4.

*EDIT* Also open to non-DHT suggestions to fight lethargy. Don't want to double up on DHTs.
 
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Bfitch

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Getting all ready for a VL Msten run myself and trying to decide between 4-andro (Iconic Alpha Four) and 4-AD ( Fusion Androtest) to add in to fight lethargy and give a little boost to the gainztrain. If I go with Androtest what would dosage look like stacked with msten? Planning to do msten a few days at 10mg, then bump to 20mg and possibly 30 for weeks 3 and 4.
I’m doing 300mg of 4 andro.. first part of cycle I used hi tech cause I had it left over and starting today with also 300mg 4 andro but from narrow labs. I’ve heard a lot of good things about them.
 
ANABOLICWRWLF

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I had to scroll up, I totally missed that! :LOL: Have you been dosing the 4 andro at 300mg the whole time along with the msten? What day are you on now and how is your energy level?
 

Bfitch

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I had to scroll up, I totally missed that! :LOL: Have you been dosing the 4 andro at 300mg the whole time along with the msten? What day are you on now and how is your energy level?
yes 300mg. And energy level is exceptionally well. I have to wake up at 4am during the week to lift due to my work schedule. Seems to be fighting lethargy pretty well. Msten was 20/20 and currently week 3 and upped it to 30mg. I honestly didn’t really notice anything until almost week 3. 2nd week I did have better pumps I noticed.
 
clevelandsae

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yes 300mg. And energy level is exceptionally well. I have to wake up at 4am during the week to lift due to my work schedule. Seems to be fighting lethargy pretty well. Msten was 20/20 and currently week 3 and upped it to 30mg. I honestly didn’t really notice anything until almost week 3. 2nd week I did have better pumps I noticed.
how long are you planning to run it?
 

Bfitch

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So you're about half way into week 3 now? How's the weight /strength gain? You taking any cycle support etc?
I am up roughly 7lbs. My diet since I started has been very good. Before.. eh. Few days ago I was up to 10lbs. I could probly up the calories but pretty comfortable with it now. Strength has been great and motivation through the roof. Taking tudca, milk thistle, organ shield, and now taurine.
 
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So you're about half way into week 3 now? How's the weight /strength gain? You taking any cycle support etc?
Yes taking 750mg tudca and cel cycle support,Fish oil and taurine. Got a 400 cap bottle 1000mg per cap on amazon for $14. Was up 9lbs at the end of week two . Now looking leaner but still up just under 8lbs. As for strength added about 20 lbs to most lifts aside from delt work.
 
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I am up roughly 7lbs. My diet since I started has been very good. Before.. eh. Few days ago I was up to 10lbs. I could probly up the calories but pretty comfortable with it now. Strength has been great and motivation through the roof. Taking tudca, milk thistle, organ shield, and now taurine.
Are you going to run any test booster along side pct? I’ve used m-test before ordered the diesel test this time and anabolic effect and of course clomid
 
Lowkii

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I’m doing 300mg of 4 andro.. first part of cycle I used hi tech cause I had it left over and starting today with also 300mg 4 andro but from narrow labs. I’ve heard a lot of good things about them.
300mg of 4 Ando is more like the equivalent of 24mg's of Injectable test. It's worthless and don't understand why people even bother buying it.
 

Uncle_E

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I’m coming to the end of week 2, planning to go for 3 weeks. I’m going up to 20mg for the final week. I started MK a week before the msten, put on about 5lbs right away then another 10 from the msten. I’m looking ridiculous full right now and getting a lot of attention. I’m pretty inexperienced with anabolics, so I think it’s having a more dramatic effect for me.
 

Uncle_E

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Cue the guys saying "if you're going to do that you may as well be pinning the real deal"
Haha, yup classic blanket statement. Everyone’s systems runs a little different though. I’m on TRT but still had to break out the dermacrine on this short run.

My estradiol was pretty low, I had bloods right before starting 12.5 (7.6 -42.6pg/ML).

So all the DHT from the msten and epiandro is hitting me hard right now. Fortunately I had the dermacrine on hand, I am upping HCG and dropping the AI for a few weeks.
 
BCseacow83

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300mg of 4 Ando is more like the equivalent of 24mg's of Injectable test. It's worthless and don't understand why people even bother buying it.
Per week or per day??? I know 24mg/day of test makes a HUGE difference. I produce zero endo test and I would take 300mg of 4-dhea any day over nothing. Now something like Alpha Gainz or Iconic's topicals are night and day better than running nothing with a non-aromatizing methyl.

I personally have used 4-dhea as TRT and when you actually get the stuff in the blood stream it works quite well IMO.
 
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How has your appetite been? I know they say lose your appetite on it but I definitely haven’t lol maybe opposite
My appetite has been normal. Been easier to drink water also. Over a gallon a day.
Was a couple days where I felt a little nauseous. It went away
 
Burnfire

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Per week or per day??? I know 24mg/day of test makes a HUGE difference. I produce zero endo test and I would take 300mg of 4-dhea any day over nothing. Now something like Alpha Gainz or Iconic's topicals are night and day better than running nothing with a non-aromatizing methyl.

I personally have used 4-dhea as TRT and when you actually get the stuff in the blood stream it works quite well IMO.
I know this is an older post but I feel this.


I feel you man I'm waiting to get back on trt and get going again but this 4 andro is working wonders! Wish I had a some orals to go with the topicals I have as well.
 
Nac

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The guys who are doing these 3 week oral cycles, is that it? 3 weeks on, then PCT? I dont get it, that seems nuts to me.
 
Whisky

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300mg of 4 Ando is more like the equivalent of 24mg's of Injectable test. It's worthless and don't understand why people even bother buying it.
cause 7x24 = 168mg per week - a solid replacement dose

I don’t actually think it converts at quite that rate (4AD is 15.76% I think) but if your conversion is correct then it would be a very valid base.
 
Whisky

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The guys who are doing these 3 week oral cycles, is that it? 3 weeks on, then PCT? I dont get it, that seems nuts to me.
was thinking the same.....why suppress ones self for that short a duration - if your gonna **** with hormones you may as well get the most from every cycle
 
BCseacow83

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cause 7x24 = 168mg per week - a solid replacement dose

I don’t actually think it converts at quite that rate (4AD is 15.76% I think) but if your conversion is correct then it would be a very valid base.
I know years ago Patrick Arnold said he did not put too much stock the conversion percentages. Since some of the reactions are fluid back and forth and with individual variances he said it is almost impossible to accurately predict with any certainty.

That said regardless of the conversion IF you get enough in the system 4-dhea is very effective given the right circumstance. I do also feel that the 4-diol it converts to adds something itself as I feel a difference when adding it to my low dose trt. I would still use 4-dhea even if none of it ended up as test as long as it still provided 4-diol in the end. (I have used straight 4-diol in the late 90's early 00"s and it was GREAT!)

That being said if one was using moderate to large amounts of test I would pass.
 
thebigt

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I know years ago Patrick Arnold said he did not put too much stock the conversion percentages. Since some of the reactions are fluid back and forth and with individual variances he said it is almost impossible to accurately predict with any certainty.

That said regardless of the conversion IF you get enough in the system 4-dhea is very effective given the right circumstance. I do also feel that the 4-diol it converts to adds something itself as I feel a difference when adding it to my low dose trt. I would still use 4-dhea even if none of it ended up as test as long as it still provided 4-diol in the end. (I have used straight 4-diol in the late 90's early 00"s and it was GREAT!)

That being said if one was using moderate to large amounts of test I would pass.
i agree...alpha four [4-dhea] accentuates my weekly 100mg test cyp very nicely. i feel a tremendous boost from it....back in the day i ran olympus labs 4-elite and epi elite---like a dumbass i went for a yearly blooddraw while on it and test was 1200 versus my normal 600-700...damned near got taken off trt....i truly feel that alpha four[transdermal 4-dhea]is much more potent than the OL oral was.
 
BCseacow83

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i agree...alpha four [4-dhea] accentuates my weekly 100mg test cyp very nicely. i feel a tremendous boost from it....back in the day i ran olympus labs 4-elite and epi elite---like a dumbass i went for a yearly blooddraw while on it and test was 1200 versus my normal 600-700...damned near got taken off trt....i truly feel that alpha four[transdermal 4-dhea]is much more potent than the OL oral was.
I agree that even a well absorbed oral is going to be peaks and valleys all day. Even if total amount absorbed was equal, which I don't believe they are, the TD will be a much smoother product for daily use. I think of it as t-gel vs test undecanoate oral, even if dose adjusted to achieve equal amounts reaching the blood stream the t-gel is going to feel better IMO. Plus I find it far more convenient to simply apply in the AM post shower(the weeks I shower lol) vs taking an oral every 4-6 hours.
 
thebigt

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I agree that even a well absorbed oral is going to be peaks and valleys all day. Even if total amount absorbed was equal, which I don't believe they are, the TD will be a much smoother product for daily use. I think of it as t-gel vs test undecanoate oral, even if dose adjusted to achieve equal amounts reaching the blood stream the t-gel is going to feel better IMO. Plus I find it far more convenient to simply apply in the AM post shower(the weeks I shower lol) vs taking an oral every 4-6 hours.
plus @delsolrob has said that transdermals are twices as effective as oral at same dose--alpha four is very well dosed as a transdermal plus the 100mg of androsterone makes it much more effective than the dose of oral i ran which doubled my total test.
 
BCseacow83

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plus @delsolrob has said that transdermals are twices as effective as oral at same dose--alpha four is very well dosed as a transdermal plus the 100mg of androsterone makes it much more effective than the dose of oral i ran which doubled my total test.
I am getting two of those for Christmas. I also have the Ultra Hard and Ultra-11 coming any day now!!! I nave been using the Alpha Gainz 4-Andro now for years.
 

Uncle_E

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The guys who are doing these 3 week oral cycles, is that it? 3 weeks on, then PCT? I dont get it, that seems nuts to me.
I’m one of those guys that did a 3 week msten cycle, I consider it a successful experiment. I’m still new to anabolics, and I’m trying to take a slow calculated approach. I’m on TRT and have had success recomping and adding some lean mass with sarms and andros, so I wanted to try something stronger to bulk with. Turns out msten is dramatically more effective at adding mass than sarms or andros for me, go figure.

I had been on a bulk lifting heavy for 3 months, I used the msten for the end of the 4 month to break through plateaus and hit new PR’s. I wanted to asses my tolerance to it 10mg/day for 3 weeks, intending to do a 4-6 week cycle early next year. The timing worked out good for me - end the cycle early November, take 8 weeks or so to PCT/maintenance work-outs through the holidays then start the new year off right.
 
Whisky

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I’m one of those guys that did a 3 week msten cycle, I consider it a successful experiment. I’m still new to anabolics, and I’m trying to take a slow calculated approach. I’m on TRT and have had success recomping and adding some lean mass with sarms and andros, so I wanted to try something stronger to bulk with. Turns out msten is dramatically more effective at adding mass than sarms or andros for me, go figure.

I had been on a bulk lifting heavy for 3 months, I used the msten for the end of the 4 month to break through plateaus and hit new PR’s. I wanted to asses my tolerance to it 10mg/day for 3 weeks, intending to do a 4-6 week cycle early next year. The timing worked out good for me - end the cycle early November, take 8 weeks or so to PCT/maintenance work-outs through the holidays then start the new year off right.
if your on trt then you don’t pct bro?

the point being made was that a 3 week cycle (just enough to suppress you) followed by a pct would be pointless as you’d lose everything (and probably more) while your hormones are fucked in pct and post pct timeframe.

if your on trt then short blasts become more understandable (honestly I’d still say that you may as well do the 4-6 weeks to max out the benefits but fully respect anyone taking a more cautious approach).

but yeah, it’s three weeks to then pct that’s the issue, trt changes things.
 

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