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Mk677 & LGD - 1st time on the gain train

Jey

New member
Hey guys this is my first cycle and I’m searching for advice.

My fictional lab rat is 31 yrs old, 5’8, 160lbs and the goal is to bulk with a 3500 daily caloric intake.

The plan is to first run mk677 for 4weeks then lgd for 6 weeks while continuing mk677 throughout PCT as well.

The plan details:

OnCycle
LGD Pyramid Taper: 5/5/10/15/15/10
Dermacrine: 2 pumps
4 andro Tapered: 100mg/200mg/300mg/300mg/200mg/100mg

PCT
Dermacrine sustain
Tamoxifen Tapered down: 15mg/10mg/10mg/12.5mg/12.5mg/5mg
Exemestane (on hand just in case)

My body fat is very low and I’ve observed my body chemistry to be quite sensitive so this being my first ride on the gain train, I thought I’d place it safe and go under the speed limit so to speak as far as dosages are concerned.

Very open to advice/suggestions!

Nothing is set in stone but I’ve already bought everything so...

Is my gain train on the right track??
 
You will see very little if any gains for 6 weeks from LGD. You will see absolutely ZERO gains from MK677 for 10 weeks

Run LGD for 12 weeks. MK677 needs to be run for many months! 4 at a minimum. Ideally 6+
 
I don't see you getting much out of this either. You need get more LGD and run it longer at the 10/15 range. Also why only 2 pumps of dermacrine? Isn't that less than the recommended dose?
 
Also 4ad; you need a lot more of it and do not taper it. Makes no sense. 4ad is there as a test base and needs to stay there all the time at the same dosage. How much you need it will depend on your level of aromatisation of test to e2 and your 5a reductase to dht. In my case, with 300mg 4ad my e2 was at 12 I think. Way to low. I would have needed app 500 to 600mg ed. And that is just for keeping your test at natural levels. It wont bring you any extra gains.

It's stupidly expensive. Same goes for dermacrine. Just buy test, dose it at 500mg ew and you'll feel great and you'll get a lot of gains just from test. Also you will save lots of money. 500mg ew test for 3 months is like 100$...
 
Sarms really aren't "cycling" IMO. And like someone already said, you are way better off hopping on test or a mild oral like HDrol or Anavar. No need for the whole lab rat sharade.
 
user567 said:
You will see very little if any gains for 6 weeks from LGD. You will see absolutely ZERO gains from MK677 for 10 weeks

Run LGD for 12 weeks. MK677 needs to be run for many months! 4 at a minimum. Ideally 6+
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Ok, Yes I’ve heard Mk677 needs 6months. I’m planning to run it that amount of time. Just a month in advance from the LGD so my body can get introduced to the compound.

I should run LGD for 12 weeks? Even if though its my first cycle
 
boooosted said:
I don't see you getting much out of this either. You need get more LGD and run it longer at the 10/15 range. Also why only 2 pumps of dermacrine? Isn't that less than the recommended dose?
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Oh! I just checked the bottle and you’re right.. the recommended dose for the 150-190lb range is 3-5 pumps..

So as far as LGD is concerned I shouldn’t start with a low dose to see how my body reacts to it?

Is it wise to just jump in on a 10-15mg dose? Even though its my very first cycle of anything other than plant sterols?
 
Jinsun said:
Also 4ad; you need a lot more of it and do not taper it. Makes no sense. 4ad is there as a test base and needs to stay there all the time at the same dosage. How much you need it will depend on your level of aromatisation of test to e2 and your 5a reductase to dht. In my case, with 300mg 4ad my e2 was at 12 I think. Way to low. I would have needed app 500 to 600mg ed. And that is just for keeping your test at natural levels. It wont bring you any extra gains.

It's stupidly expensive. Same goes for dermacrine. Just buy test, dose it at 500mg ew and you'll feel great and you'll get a lot of gains just from test. Also you will save lots of money. 500mg ew test for 3 months is like 100$...
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Ahh I see.. what were you running when you test based with 300mg of 4ad?

Also which form of test is this that you’re reffering to? Orals? And where would I find it?
 
mikeymike85 said:
Sarms really aren't "cycling" IMO. And like someone already said, you are way better off hopping on test or a mild oral like HDrol or Anavar. No need for the whole lab rat sharade.
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Lol yeah, i thought the oxymoronic “fictional lab rat” line was funny.. you know.. since my lab rat is literally fictional..

Also why would SARMS not be considered “cycling” if its potentially supperessive at these doses and requires a cycle of PCT to return to normal??
 
I've only ran Osta, so I might not be the most ill informed, but, I didnt notice anything grandiose from it. I assume if I'm going to get shutdown, and maybe encounter sides....

Then I'm running something I can at least look and feel different on. Essentially I would never run osta for 2 months and waste another 2 months not being able to run something way better. To sum it up...I dont buy into it, lol.
 
LGD is quite supressive for most people from what I have read. Run it for 12 wks with MK677 and some sort of test base. You will bounce back nicely with a SERM PCT and should keep your gains.
 
Jey said:
Ok, Yes I’ve heard Mk677 needs 6months. I’m planning to run it that amount of time. Just a month in advance from the LGD so my body can get introduced to the compound.

I should run LGD for 12 weeks? Even if though its my first cycle
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6-8 weeks should be more than plenty to get your feet wet. I’d personally never run an oral past 8 weeks. I do agree with the dosing though; there’s no need to start at such a low dose and then taper off it.
 
AnabolicGuru said:
6-8 weeks should be more than plenty to get your feet wet. I’d personally never run an oral past 8 weeks. I do agree with the dosing though; there’s no need to start at such a low dose and then taper off it.
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Ok what if I do the 8 week run LGD @ 10-15mg off the bat and then add RAD140 four weeks in and run that until the 8weeks are done.

Is that a bad idea?
 
Mate just do a proper cycle and stop with this nonsense.

First, what do you want to achieve? Bulk, okey, but how much? Why are you complicating with such weird suggestions, where are you getting this ideas?

Do a 500mg test c cycle for 12 weeks. If you wish add some orals or other long lasting compounds like eq or primo. But eitherway do more research before you do anything!
 
Jinsun said:
Mate just do a proper cycle and stop with this nonsense.

First, what do you want to achieve? Bulk, okey, but how much? Why are you complicating with such weird suggestions, where are you getting this ideas?

Do a 500mg test c cycle for 12 weeks. If you wish add some orals or other long lasting compounds like eq or primo. But eitherway do more research before you do anything!
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Not everyone wants to jump right on a steroid cycle. He's asking advice for his SARM cycle.

OP, you said you wanted to keep it safe and go under the speed limit. Just up the lgd a bit, take the recommended dose. You're asking about whether or not you should do that but then you talk about adding RAD in. Keep it simple. Getting to your desired body stats will take time, so just stick with the amounts others have suggested above and then pct. In the meantime you can plan out your next cycle and make that one more interesting if you decide.
 
Lgd will shut him down and he will need a test base. There is no difference between this and a proper cycle. That was mainly my point.
 
boooosted said:
Not everyone wants to jump right on a steroid cycle. He's asking advice for his SARM cycle.

OP, you said you wanted to keep it safe and go under the speed limit. Just up the lgd a bit, take the recommended dose. You're asking about whether or not you should do that but then you talk about adding RAD in. Keep it simple. Getting to your desired body stats will take time, so just stick with the amounts others have suggested above and then pct. In the meantime you can plan out your next cycle and make that one more interesting if you decide.
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Thanks man, I think I’m gonna do that, I did more research on that whole RAD and you’re right.. baaaad idea.

Ok, so 8 weeks of LGD in the 10-15 mg range.. with my test base.

Thank you!
 
BennyMagoo79 said:
LGD is quite supressive for most people from what I have read. Run it for 12 wks with MK677 and some sort of test base. You will bounce back nicely with a SERM PCT and should keep your gains.
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Do not listen to these people claiming you'll be fine and bounce back with a serm pct. Once you **** your system up with anabolics, you will never be the same again. You will gain **** all from sarms anyway, so may as well use strong gear like test and dbol.
 
I think lgd should be dosed in the 15-25mg range and even 30mg might be a good idea but I’ll have to test it on myself before I recommend that. When people call sarms weak on here, that’s coming from the perspective of advanced AAS users. You’re a first time user, so sarms will be enjoyable. If you do testosterone and dbol right out the gate then you’ve set the bar pretty high. You’ll enjoy this cycle. And as everyone else has said, 6 weeks is too short. Run it 8-12 weeks. For me, lgd is more of a performance enhancer than anything else but I’m recomping on it. If you bulk on it the aesthetic results might be pretty nice.
 
At week 8 when your strength is going up and your looking better you will want to keep running it to 12 weeks. 8 is too short
 
Jinsun said:
Also 4ad; you need a lot more of it and do not taper it. Makes no sense. 4ad is there as a test base and needs to stay there all the time at the same dosage. How much you need it will depend on your level of aromatisation of test to e2 and your 5a reductase to dht. In my case, with 300mg 4ad my e2 was at 12 I think. Way to low. I would have needed app 500 to 600mg ed. And that is just for keeping your test at natural levels. It wont bring you any extra gains.

It's stupidly expensive. Same goes for dermacrine. Just buy test, dose it at 500mg ew and you'll feel great and you'll get a lot of gains just from test. Also you will save lots of money. 500mg ew test for 3 months is like 100$...
Click to expand...

Last paragraph of this all day long
 
Brenwad said:
Do not listen to these people claiming you'll be fine and bounce back with a serm pct. Once you **** your system up with anabolics, you will never be the same again. You will gain **** all from sarms anyway, so may as well use strong gear like test and dbol.
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Did that happen to you? Do you have results from blood tests to confirm that you are not the same as once before or is this just speculative opinion?

What do you suggest?
I’ve read that some people suggest to just take D-aspartic acid and an AI.

Is that an effective idea?
 
I think its just what hes seen with himself and others with years of experience. I was already fcked before i started cycling anyways so im on trt. And no do not just take DAA and an AI. You need a SERM pct for lgd. This being your first cycle im sure it'll treat you well but as others have said, when 8 weeks roll around you'll be wanting to run it 12. And Jinsun is talking about testosterone. You need to inject it, or use transdermal, and it is also illegal. Which im assuming you're wanting to keep it legal and without needles? I would guess thats why you picked LGD. Unless you just dont have a source and want some gains in which case theres better options out there but since you already bought it, might as well run it
 
I would deffinitely recommend 12 weeks on lgd. I would also scrap the 4 andro and up the dermacrine dosage. I would use either or and dermacrine works better for me. No gains from it but will negate the lethargy you'll get on the lgd. Mk can be used in short bursts but more for its side effects than actual gains. It will increase appetite from day one if you struggle getting calories in, it will also help you get quality sleep which in a roundabout way will boost gains. I am currently using it for 4 weeks to help with healing post surgery. Seems to be going well since at less that a week after I'm off all painkillers and feel pretty much normal. (I haven't tried having the same surgery and recovering without mk as a control though so make of that what you will). Finally I would like to say I love sarms. They are great if used correctly. You can't get away with as much sloppyness as you can with harsher orals though (can't speak for pinning cos never tried it). If you have your training and diet down to where your gaining a couple of pounds every couple of weeks whilst looking lean then I believe adding sarms will boost this result and at least double your gains if not more. If you are not gaining any weight or look too fat then throwing sarms at the situation will not do squat. Your training and diet need to be on point.

For the record I have only ever done oral cycles and at 6 foot I have been 169lbs and very lean to 210lbs with a 34 inch waist and getting all the "what the **** have you been working out" comments from people at my local cornershop and those I work with. Results would no doubt have been better with pinning actual test but don't for a second think that it's the only way.
 
Wobmarvel said:
I would deffinitely recommend 12 weeks on lgd. I would also scrap the 4 andro and up the dermacrine dosage. I would use either or and dermacrine works better for me. No gains from it but will negate the lethargy you'll get on the lgd. Mk can be used in short bursts but more for its side effects than actual gains. It will increase appetite from day one if you struggle getting calories in, it will also help you get quality sleep which in a roundabout way will boost gains. I am currently using it for 4 weeks to help with healing post surgery. Seems to be going well since at less that a week after I'm off all painkillers and feel pretty much normal. (I haven't tried having the same surgery and recovering without mk as a control though so make of that what you will). Finally I would like to say I love sarms. They are great if used correctly. You can't get away with as much sloppyness as you can with harsher orals though (can't speak for pinning cos never tried it). If you have your training and diet down to where your gaining a couple of pounds every couple of weeks whilst looking lean then I believe adding sarms will boost this result and at least double your gains if not more. If you are not gaining any weight or look too fat then throwing sarms at the situation will not do squat. Your training and diet need to be on point.

For the record I have only ever done oral cycles and at 6 foot I have been 169lbs and very lean to 210lbs with a 34 inch waist and getting all the "what the **** have you been working out" comments from people at my local cornershop and those I work with. Results would no doubt have been better with pinning actual test but don't for a second think that it's the only way.
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Thank you for your advice!

What’s the reason not to use both 4 Andro and Derm?
 
All of these people are wrong. Run LGD for 5mg at 8 weeks max. No pct required. LGD doesn't suppress LH and FSH so no pct required. No need to run at anything above 5mg. Look up logs, there are people running at 5mg making great gains. The study dose was run at 1mg and gains were made. Running at anything above 5mg is a waste of money.
 
DylanC said:
All of these people are wrong. Run LGD for 5mg at 8 weeks max. No pct required. LGD doesn't suppress LH and FSH so no pct required. No need to run at anything above 5mg. Look up logs, there are people running at 5mg making great gains. The study dose was run at 1mg and gains were made. Running at anything above 5mg is a waste of money.
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Ive heard on multiple accounts that gains from 10mg to 20mg is a night and day difference. I dont see 5mg doing much and im sure you'd still get suppressed running 5mg for 2 months
 
christ83189 said:
Ive heard on multiple accounts that gains from 10mg to 20mg is a night and day difference. I dont see 5mg doing much and im sure you'd still get suppressed running 5mg for 2 months
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There are logs of people running 5mg, even 2.5mg gaining 10-15 lbs in 8 weeks. Blood work pre and post with zero pct, making full recovery in 4 weeks. Yes, your test leve gets suppresed but LH and FSH remain intact. Theres a differebce between suppression and total shutdown. I've ran it myself at 5mg and made great gains. It's his first cycle so there is no reason to be running a bunch of stuff. My advice is drop the andro and dermacrine and just run LGD at 5mg for 8 weeks. Get blood work 1 week after stopping lgd and get FSH and LH tested.
 
DylanC said:
There are logs of people running 5mg, even 2.5mg gaining 10-15 lbs in 8 weeks. Blood work pre and post with zero pct, making full recovery in 4 weeks. Yes, your test leve gets suppresed but LH and FSH remain intact. Theres a differebce between suppression and total shutdown. I've ran it myself at 5mg and made great gains. It's his first cycle so there is no reason to be running a bunch of stuff. My advice is drop the andro and dermacrine and just run LGD at 5mg for 8 weeks. Get blood work 1 week after stopping lgd and get FSH and LH tested.
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You want to pm him your address so he knows where to send the ‘thanks for fcuking up my nuts’ card......
 
DylanC said:
There are logs of people running 5mg, even 2.5mg gaining 10-15 lbs in 8 weeks. Blood work pre and post with zero pct, making full recovery in 4 weeks. Yes, your test leve gets suppresed but LH and FSH remain intact. Theres a differebce between suppression and total shutdown. I've ran it myself at 5mg and made great gains. It's his first cycle so there is no reason to be running a bunch of stuff. My advice is drop the andro and dermacrine and just run LGD at 5mg for 8 weeks. Get blood work 1 week after stopping lgd and get FSH and LH tested.
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10-15 lbs in 8 weeks on 2.5-5mg? I dont think so. I dont have time to look for those logs right now but yeah i dont believe that
 
Whisky said:
You want to pm him your address so he knows where to send the ‘thanks for fcuking up my nuts’ card......
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Lol hes been on here since 2014 but these are his first posts. Its crazy to me he would jump in like this after 4 years of not posting. Sure 5mg prob wont mess you up long term without pct but i would rather run more and know im going to get some gains
 
Do you guys realize how clomid/Nolvadex works? It stimulates FSH and LH levels which increases your test. So what's the point of running a serm if your FSH and LH levels are not suppressed after a lgd cycle? Running at 10mg is old outdated info usually spouted by people who want to sell more sarms. This guy doesn't need to take a bunch of **** and **** up his htpa levels. If he runs at 5mg and gets bloods a week after and his LH aftern FSH are ****ed (which won't be because the actual test study s show lgd not to suppress LH and FSH) then he can use his serm to recover. Running a bunch of compounds at high dosages is a stupid idea and will have the op end up on trt.
 
DylanC said:
Do you guys realize how clomid/Nolvadex works? It stimulates FSH and LH levels which increases your test. So what's the point of running a serm if your FSH and LH levels are not suppressed after a lgd cycle? Running at 10mg is old outdated info usually spouted by people who want to sell more sarms. This guy doesn't need to take a bunch of **** and **** up his htpa levels. If he runs at 5mg and gets bloods a week after and his LH aftern FSH are ****ed (which won't be because the actual test study s show lgd not to suppress LH and FSH) then he can use his serm to recover. Running a bunch of compounds at high dosages is a stupid idea and will have the op end up on trt.
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Your initial post stated (twice) that no pct was required. You’ve also stated that yes test will be suppressed and that no it won’t in your posts....

Everyone reacts differently to all compounds so your blanket statement simply can’t be true.

Yeah he ‘might recover fine without but he also might not.

Incidentally I can tell you from personal experience today that having LH/FSH working fine doesn’t guarantee test is.....
 
DylanC said:
Do you guys realize how clomid/Nolvadex works? It stimulates FSH and LH levels which increases your test. So what's the point of running a serm if your FSH and LH levels are not suppressed after a lgd cycle? Running at 10mg is old outdated info usually spouted by people who want to sell more sarms. This guy doesn't need to take a bunch of **** and **** up his htpa levels. If he runs at 5mg and gets bloods a week after and his LH aftern FSH are ****ed (which won't be because the actual test study s show lgd not to suppress LH and FSH) then he can use his serm to recover. Running a bunch of compounds at high dosages is a stupid idea and will have the op end up on trt.
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Yeah no i get that. If he runs it like that amd his LH and FSH are all good then cool. But ive never seen bloodwork to show that, and i wouldnt bother running an anabolic that low. Thats all im saying. I dont see any reason not to run lgd higher and just pct. Well, if i did pct, but i dont. Im not gonna waste my time with something unless im getting worthwhile gains. Its his first cycle so he may get decent gains from just 5mg. But i wont believe that 5mg is better than 10 or 20.
 
Whisky I think you need to research what the difference between suppression and shutdown is. Just because test is suppressed doesn't mean you are shutdown. Like i said clomid and nolva works by raising fsh and lh levels which is what makes you recover after a cycle. In all of the studies and logs I have read lh and FSH levels do not change. If he runs 10-20mg he is going to feel like **** by week 8, and you guys are telling him to run it for 12 weeks? Add the test base and he is going to be shutdown and feel like total **** and risk damaging his htpa.
 
DylanC said:
Whisky I think you need to research what the difference between suppression and shutdown is. Just because test is suppressed doesn't mean you are shutdown. Like i said clomid and nolva works by raising fsh and lh levels which is what makes you recover after a cycle. In all of the studies and logs I have read lh and FSH levels do not change. If he runs 10-20mg he is going to feel like **** by week 8, and you guys are telling him to run it for 12 weeks? Add the test base and he is going to be shutdown and feel like total **** and risk damaging his htpa.
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I mean this high quality, controlled, double blind study clearly states FSH (along with total and free test) were surpressed at 1mg a day after 21 days but I’m sure your probably right though bro.....

Invalid Link Removed
 
Jey said:
Thank you for your advice!

What’s the reason not to use both 4 Andro and Derm?
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I feel they both serve the same purpose. Although 4 andro is a wet gainer you need a crazy dose to make it work. Dermacrine is dht based and so works in a different way but I presume you are using them as a "base". They will both reduce the lethargy and lack of general motivation you will no doubt start to experience so I would simply go with one or the other. I have ran 4 andro with lgd at 400mg per day and didn't notice much from it. I recently ran dermacrine during a superdrol cycle and felt a huge difference.

On top of this with one your prone to high estrogen and all the problems it can cause and with the other your prone to losing your hair so it just adds too many things to watch out for. Especially if this is your first cycle.
 
Wobmarvel said:
I feel they both serve the same purpose. Although 4 andro is a wet gainer you need a crazy dose to make it work. Dermacrine is dht based and so works in a different way but I presume you are using them as a "base". They will both reduce the lethargy and lack of general motivation you will no doubt start to experience so I would simply go with one or the other. I have ran 4 andro with lgd at 400mg per day and didn't notice much from it. I recently ran dermacrine during a superdrol cycle and felt a huge difference.

On top of this with one your prone to high estrogen and all the problems it can cause and with the other your prone to losing your hair so it just adds too many things to watch out for. Especially if this is your first cycle.
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Dermacrine is DHT based? It’s DHEA based and DHEA converts to test but is that test then more prone to convert to DHT? Or is it DHT based in some other way? I’m on dermacrine now and I’ve been shedding hair quite a bit more than usual. It sucks and it’s scary but it hasn’t taken too huge a toll on the quality of what’s left on my scalp.
 
Stick with the tried and true. Test, Deca, EQ, Mast, Tren, etc. Orals..Dbol Var.....if your a chick, Drol. Not all at once. Decide what your goals are, choose your compounds, diet and train to achieve said goal. Period. Its not rocket science
 
Personally, I only use Test E, Deca, Tren E, Dbol, Anadrol and Insulin. That's it. Not all at once...but always Test. After more than 20 years, I've learNed what works for me. I can transform myself with training, diet, and a combination of these compounds into whatever I want. Not over night of course, but it is really really not that complicated
 
YoungThor said:
Dermacrine is DHT based? It’s DHEA based and DHEA converts to test but is that test then more prone to convert to DHT? Or is it DHT based in some other way? I’m on dermacrine now and I’ve been shedding hair quite a bit more than usual. It sucks and it’s scary but it hasn’t taken too huge a toll on the quality of what’s left on my scalp.
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The pregnenolone is suppose to help prevent conversion to dht but I wouldn't count it out completely.
 
You will not be f*cked for life from one lgd cycle. There’s plenty of people in this world who’ve ran several, far more extreme cycles, and were able to bounce back fine without getting on trt.
 
Brenwad said:
Do not listen to these people claiming you'll be fine and bounce back with a serm pct. Once you **** your system up with anabolics, you will never be the same again. You will gain **** all from sarms anyway, so may as well use strong gear like test and dbol.
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I also don’t agree with the philosophy of “you might as well try the hard stuff right out the gate.” Would you suggest this with any other category of drug? To put it in perspective, imagine someone just turned 21 and they’re going out to drink for the first time. Would you say, “forget about lagers and pale ales, you might as well bang shots of bicardi 151, since you goal is to get drunk anyway, and you’re likely going to wake up with a hangover no matter what you choose.” To me, I think it’s sensible to get your feet wet by trying something weaker first, and then you decide whether it’s for you or not. A SARMS cycle will help him make this decision, and if he wants, he can run test and dbol for his second cycle.
 
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