Mild PH with minimal liver toxicity for a mid 30s former bodybuilder?

[DRip]

It has been over a decade since I have ran any AAS/PH but I still workout frequently and want to try something mild again. I ran tbol, sdrol, sus500, tren etc in the past but want something much easier on my body now that I am a bit older. I know that most available compounds these days are all DHEA derivatives which is fine by me but are there any that stand out? Hexadrone seems interesting for a non DHEA PH but the brands that have it seem sort of "iffy" and I hear only the alpha isomer is worth looking at. I still have my old PCT regimen and my ancillaries are all top notch including doctor prescribed drugs but I would still prefer something with minimal liver impact and hit on my blood pressure. Any help and/or suggestions to help me back into the AAS/PH world would be hugely appreciated!

As a side note, why am I still a 'new member'? My account is 13yrs old lol.

 

[Stacks1]

Dose matters. So you can run tbol again or anavar or something but maybe be a little more conservative on the dose. Otherwise, if you want something really mild maybe 11-KT (or 11-OXO). The only cycle with most of the current DHEA ones out there would be 1-DHEA and 4-DHEA. You can get these as well as 11-KT is TD form. Even orally, the liver toxicity is minimal.

 

[Stacks1]

You can try epiandro too.

 

[BBiceps]

Oral Primo might be something to look at and/or Proviron if you’re on TRT. I don’t think you will get anything out of any mild OTC supps if you already used gear.

 

[Smont]

It has been over a decade since I have ran any AAS/PH but I still workout frequently and want to try something mild again. I ran tbol, sdrol, sus500, tren etc in the past but want something much easier on my body now that I am a bit older. I know that most available compounds these days are all DHEA derivatives which is fine by me but are there any that stand out? Hexadrone seems interesting for a non DHEA PH but the brands that have it seem sort of "iffy" and I hear only the alpha isomer is worth looking at. I still have my old PCT regimen and my ancillaries are all top notch including doctor prescribed drugs but I would still prefer something with minimal liver impact and hit on my blood pressure. Any help and/or suggestions to help me back into the AAS/PH world would be hugely appreciated!

As a side note, why am I still a 'new member'? My account is 13yrs old lol.

Post count makes you a new member.

If you wanna go the route of whats currently somewhat legal and mild but produces results. (Firstvi would get on testosterone and not thst sus 500 garbage. No good test is brewed over 300mg/ml, 200-250 even better.)

If no test i would use 4andro and lgd 4033, if i wanted to kick that up a knotch id add 900mg of epiandro. Thisvof course would all be if i wouldent or couldent usevregular gear

 

[delsolrob]

much of this is going to revolve around your goals and aversion to sides.

If you want to get shredded, 11-KT would likely be your best option - Iron Legion still offers XI-KT and Iconic Formulations offers Ultra Eleven. Each bottle of XI-KT contains 2.55g 11-KT and each bottle of Ultra Eleven contains 5.6g 11-KT. For many, it just comes down to the carrier of preference - lotion vs gel. 11-KT should be really mild on sides.

If you're looking for a great base, or if you just want a feel amazing, while also putting on some size...keep an eye open for Alpha Four by Iconic Formulations...this has been out of production, but I heard there may be a limited release coming soon. this is a combination of 4-DHEA and Androsterone - this was hugely popular! This was similar to the old Primordial Performance AndroMass product. This would pair really well with LGD, as @Smont mentioned.

 

[Smont]

much of this is going to revolve around your goals and aversion to sides.

If you want to get shredded, 11-KT would likely be your best option - Iron Legion still offers XI-KT and Iconic Formulations offers Ultra Eleven. Each bottle of XI-KT contains 2.55g 11-KT and each bottle of Ultra Eleven contains 5.6g 11-KT. For many, it just comes down to the carrier of preference - lotion vs gel. 11-KT should be really mild on sides.

If you're looking for a great base, or if you just want a feel amazing, while also putting on some size...keep an eye open for Alpha Four by Iconic Formulations...this has been out of production, but I heard there may be a limited release coming soon. this is a combination of 4-DHEA and Androsterone - this was hugely popular! This was similar to the old Primordial Performance AndroMass product. This would pair really well with LGD, as @Smont mentioned.

I didint realize you still made 4 dhea td. I tjought i had saw a thread saying no more. Thats good to know! I got a few guys who wont pin and 4 andro is a big help for tjose guys.

Sorry for the typos, i turned my auto correct off and my fat thumbs are hitting every wring button lol

 

[Smont]

Wrong* buttons

 

[Dustin07]

Dose matters. So you can run tbol again or anavar or something but maybe be a little more conservative on the dose. Otherwise, if you want something really mild maybe 11-KT (or 11-OXO). The only cycle with most of the current DHEA ones out there would be 1-DHEA and 4-DHEA. You can get these as well as 11-KT is TD form. Even orally, the liver toxicity is minimal.

You can try epiandro too.

coincidentally my stack is DHEA + epiandro right now. both xpg transdermals

 

[Dustin07]

much of this is going to revolve around your goals and aversion to sides.

If you want to get shredded, 11-KT would likely be your best option - Iron Legion still offers XI-KT and Iconic Formulations offers Ultra Eleven. Each bottle of XI-KT contains 2.55g 11-KT and each bottle of Ultra Eleven contains 5.6g 11-KT. For many, it just comes down to the carrier of preference - lotion vs gel. 11-KT should be really mild on sides.

If you're looking for a great base, or if you just want a feel amazing, while also putting on some size...keep an eye open for Alpha Four by Iconic Formulations...this has been out of production, but I heard there may be a limited release coming soon. this is a combination of 4-DHEA and Androsterone - this was hugely popular! This was similar to the old Primordial Performance AndroMass product. This would pair really well with LGD, as @Smont mentioned.

if a person wanted the androsterone, the Ultra Hard might not be a bad choice? IDK about the 4-DHEA, I'm only familiar with deramcrine along those lines in the iconic brand.

 

[delsolrob]

4-DHEA actually converts to test

Ultra Hard is top tier for the synergistic benefits of both Epiandro and androsterone - fricken amazing for libido, muscle density, focus, etc. But, the combination of 4-DHEA and Androsterone is undeniably amazing - people absolutely loved Alpha Four. Mass, libido, well being, energy, alpha feeling, etc.

there's a reason people paid hundreds of dollars a bottle (10 years ago) for the Primordial AndroMass - think it was $199.99 back in 2013. That was a combo of 4-DHEA and Androsterone. Some people reported a little bloating on 4-DHEA - the androsterone helps to minimize the bloat and aid in nitrogen retention - while also working synergistically to further boost libido, focus, etc.

 

[Stacks1]

Oral Primo might be something to look at and/or Proviron if you’re on TRT. I don’t think you will get anything out of any mild OTC supps if you already used gear.

Does oral primo work? Has anyone ever run oral primo on here? Not part of a huge cycle but with just test or something? Sounds like it would be quite expensive to run.

 

[BBiceps]

Does oral primo work? Has anyone ever run oral primo on here? Not part of a huge cycle but with just test or something? Sounds like it would be quite expensive to run.

I have ran it a few times, I ran it low dose (20mg ed) with injectable Primo and with TRT. It works same way as injectable Primo. Yes, it can be expensive, especially if you run it by itself but very mild with almost no sides and it shouldn’t effect your lipids in moderate doses.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Post count makes you a new member.

If you wanna go the route of whats currently somewhat legal and mild but produces results. (Firstvi would get on testosterone and not thst sus 500 garbage. No good test is brewed over 300mg/ml, 200-250 even better.)

If no test i would use 4andro and lgd 4033, if i wanted to kick that up a knotch id add 900mg of epiandro. Thisvof course would all be if i wouldent or couldent usevregular gear

Why lgd and not 1-AD/1-DHEA for the recommendation?

 

[EpiStrong]

Does oral primo work? Has anyone ever run oral primo on here? Not part of a huge cycle but with just test or something? Sounds like it would be quite expensive to run.

Primo ace most definitely works. I'd you're trying to save money learn to brew. You can have a lifetime of trt for a couple hundred

 

[Stacks1]

I have ran it a few times, I ran it low dose (20mg ed) with injectable Primo and with TRT. It works same way as injectable Primo. Yes, it can be expensive, especially if you run it by itself but very mild with almost no sides and it shouldn’t effect your lipids in moderate doses.

Primo ace most definitely works. I'd you're trying to save money learn to brew. You can have a lifetime of trt for a couple hundred

Interesting. What would be the recommended dose to run it and how long can it be run for? I would just be running it with like 400mgs test.

 

[Rad83]

I didint realize you still made 4 dhea td. I tjought i had saw a thread saying no more. Thats good to know! I got a few guys who wont pin and 4 andro is a big help for tjose guys.

Sorry for the typos, i turned my auto correct off and my fat thumbs are hitting every wring button lol

Just checked their whole site out (they sent me an email actually, multiple lol) Didn’t see the 4 andro td anywhere

 

[Stacks1]

Just checked their whole site out (they sent me an email actually, multiple lol) Didn’t see the 4 andro td anywhere

You can still get TD 4-andro from Alpha Gainz and IML.

 

[Rad83]

You can still get TD 4-andro from Alpha Gainz and IML.

I’ve used the IML one, good product!

Read on here recently the alpha gainz one smells brutal

 

[EpiStrong]

Interesting. What would be the recommended dose to run it and how long can it be run for? I would just be running it with like 400mgs test.

Primo ace isn't methylated even though oral. It can be run until you get uncomfortable with bloods. No real magic number

 

[Smont]

Why lgd and not 1-AD/1-DHEA for the recommendation?

My personal opinion. Lots of guys feel crappy on 1 andro. Ive seen ppl on trt have raise there dose of test to feel good and motivated on it. There's also lots of people who get along great with it. But i'm not one of those people So i'm not gonna recommend something that makes me feel crappy. If you already know that you get along good with it then by all means, use it. Side effects are very individual.

 

[Smont]

Does oral primo work? Has anyone ever run oral primo on here? Not part of a huge cycle but with just test or something? Sounds like it would be quite expensive to run.

It works great if you're a hundred and fifteen pound girl lol

 

[GreenMachineX]

My personal opinion. Lots of guys feel crappy on 1 andro. Ive seen ppl on trt have raise there dose of test to feel good and motivated on it. There's also lots of people who get along great with it. But i'm not one of those people So i'm not gonna recommend something that makes me feel crappy. If you already know that you get along good with it then by all means, use it. Side effects are very individual.

Thanks. What side effects do you get from it?

 

[EpiStrong]

It works great if you're a hundred and fifteen pound girl lol

Test works great on a 115 lb girl if you can only get it at 10ml...

 

[Smont]

Thanks. What side effects do you get from it?

Low energy, lower libido. Similar to feeling shutdown if you ever ran orals witj no test for too long, but i was on test.

Now to be fair, it was probably 12 years ago and i didint know as much as i do now, i didnt really know anything to be honest. My experience may differ if i used it again.

 

[Smont]

Test works great on a 115 lb girl if you can only get it at 10ml...

10ml is a lot of test

 

[Smont]

Ive seen guys take megadoses of oral primo and get very little out of it. The only people o know who like it are females

 

[EpiStrong]

Ive seen guys take megadoses of oral primo and get very little out of it. The only people o know who like it are females

So oral primo ace is different from primo e other than bioavailability?

 

[Smont]

So oral primo ace is different from e other than bioavailability?

Its effects on the body are different, yes. Superdrol is oral masteron. Look at the difference there

 

[EpiStrong]

Its effects on the body are different, yes. Superdrol is oral masteron. Look at the difference there

It's Methylated. Primo ace is not Methylated

 

[EpiStrong]

This isn't meant to be an argument but the syperdrol was way off. This is like oral vs transdermal 4dhea.... both work, it's different applications.

 

[Smont]

@BBiceps who was on here running oral primo

This isn't meant to be an argument but the syperdrol was way off. This is like oral vs transdermal 4dhea.... both work, it's different applications.

Go buy oral primo, run it as high as you can and you will understand

 

[Smont]

You could also try oral and injectable dbol, night and day difference.

Iral and injectable lgd, rad and s23 all different.

Things change when you inject something vs taking a pill.

 

[EpiStrong]

You could also try oral and injectable dbol, night and day difference.

Iral and injectable lgd, rad and s23 all different.

Things change when you inject something vs taking a pill.

The compound isn't changed. Ie your example superdrol, oral superdrol vs injectedable superdrol. Both is superdrol one doesn't have first pass, method of application is different, bioavailability is different

 

[Smont]

The compound isn't changed. Ie your example superdrol, oral superdrol vs injectedable superdrol. Both is superdrol one doesn't have first pass, method of application is different.

Ok i get that, thats why i told you 5 other examples. Go try any of those and you will understand, or get primo tabs. Oral primo and injectable primo dont treat anyone the same. Take it for what its worth. I dont really care if you believe me. The only proof i can offer you is if you go purchess the compounds and run them back to back you will see for yourself and thats all i got for you bud.

 

[Smont]

We have heard countless bodybuilders also say winstrol inject is waaayyyyyyy better then the oral. Theres no studies on stuff like this, only peoples personal experiences. But, there is a some kind of change in pharmacokinetics when you inject vs oral. That you can find studies on im sure

 

[EpiStrong]

Ok i get that, thats why i told you 5 other examples. Go try any of those and you will understand, or get primo tabs. Oral primo and injectable primo dont treat anyone the same. Take it for what its worth. I dont really care if you believe me. The only proof i can offer you is if you go purchess the compounds and run them back to back you will see for yourself and thats all i got for you bud.

Ok. Personally haven't tried ace but have friends that have. Their experiences differ. It doesn't make sense if you meet the mg needed. You're not changing the compound like you would with masteron vs superdol adding the 17a. You're changing the acid in your stomach eating some mgs up

 

[EpiStrong]

May have convinced me to buy some primo ace a few grams. Touche lol. Geometric dilution and have to test it out

 

[Smont]

Ok. Personally haven't tried ace but have friends that have. Their experiences differ. It doesn't make sense if you meet the mg needed. You're not changing the compound like you would with masteron vs superdol adding the 17a. You're changing the acid in your stomach eating some mgs up

But it does make sense.... your injecting it. Your changing the drugs reaction in the body. When you take a pill it gets digested and goes through a process to get into the blood stream

If you inject it then that dosent happen.

Rec drugs are the same. Someone who sniffs coke will have a very different experence if they smoked it.

Try smoking weed and then eating edibles, very different feeling.

To be clear i never smoked coke. I know ppl that do. I do smoke pot, anyone who does knows the route of administration changes its effects

 

[Smont]

If you do buy primo get a roid test kit. Primovis pricy so fakes are more common

 

[EpiStrong]

But it does make sense.... your injecting it. Your changing the drugs reaction in the body. When you take a pill it gets digested and goes through a process to get into the blood stream

If you inject it then that dosent happen.

Rec drugs are the same. Someone who sniffs coke will have a very different experence if they smoked it.

Try smoking weed and then eating edibles, very different feeling.

To be clear i never smoked coke. I know ppl that do. I do smoke pot, anyone who does knows the route of administration changes its effects

I totally get that. My point is like 4dhea. Orally here on this forum it's recommended to do more, transdermally you use less. If you're having subpar results with a method of application, I would believe the amount used to be the problem because the compound has not changed, only the bioavailability

 

[EpiStrong]

If you do buy primo get a roid test kit. Primovis pricy so fakes are more common

If I buy raws, I buy enough the less than 200 bucks for a lab test pays for itself to know its quality.. roid tests suck

 

[Smont]

I totally get that. My point is like 4dhea. Orally here on this forum it's recommended to do more, transdermally you use less. If you're having subpar results with a method of application, I would believe the amount used to be the problem because the compound has not changed, only the bioavailability

4 dhea is a prohormone, that has to go through a process in the body to turn it into its parent hormones. So thats a bit different

 

[EpiStrong]

4 dhea is a prohormone, that has to go through a process in the body to turn it into its parent hormones. So thats a bit different

So your example superdrol. It is an active steroid. Oral vs injection.

 

[Smont]

So your example superdrol. It is an active steroid. Oral vs injection.

Why is SD stuck in your head, its like your stuck on repeat. 3 times you said that lol. We already established it was a bad example lol

Lets just drop tjis and let the guy have his thread back. You can start a thread on tjis subject. It would probably be a very busy thread. Maybe not with primo cus not a lot of ppl use it. But the whole oral vs. Injectsble thing as a whole

 

[EpiStrong]

Why is SD stuck in your head, its like your stuck on repeat. 3 times you said that lol. We already established it was a bad example lol

Lets just drop tjis and let the guy have his thread back. You can start a thread on tjis subject. It would probably be a very busy thread. Maybe not with primo cus not a lot of ppl use it. But the whole oral vs. Injectsble thing as a whole

Because primo ace is oral vs ethanate which is injection. It is very similar

 

[Smont]

 

[BBiceps]

@BBiceps who was on here running oral primo

Go buy oral primo, run it as high as you can and you will understand

I only used it low dose, 20mg ed, as an add on to injectable Primo and with TRT, definitely felt a little boost from it but injectable is better. 20mg Primo Ace is like 50mg Proviron (not really but somewhat same effect), so it’s nothing you should expect massive gains from but you feel a little better, get a little more pumped, a little leaning out effect.

I never used more than that but a guy from another board run 60-80mg ed with his TRT and he’s getting gains, nothing major but from pictures you can tell a big difference. He been on for months without any negatives on blood work.

Btw, I got my Primo Ace for free (a bonus from ordering a lot of Primo E ) and even though I say I like it I’m not sure I would buy it for myself since Primo E is better/cheaper.

But, if I for some reason needed to stop doing injections and wanted to use a safe oral, Primo Ace would be my first choice.

 

[Smont]

I only used it low dose, 20mg ed, as an add on to injectable Primo and with TRT, definitely felt a little boost from it but injectable is better. 20mg Primo Ace is like 50mg Proviron (not really but somewhat same effect), so it’s nothing you should expect massive gains from but you feel a little better, get a little more pumped, a little leaning out effect.

I never used more than that but a guy from another board run 60-80mg ed with his TRT and he’s getting gains, nothing major but from pictures you can tell a big difference. He been on for months without any negatives on blood work.

Btw, I got my Primo Ace for free (a bonus from ordering a lot of Primo E ) and even though I say I like it I’m not sure I would buy it for myself since Primo E is better/cheaper.

But, if I for some reason needed to stop doing injections and wanted to use a safe oral, Primo Ace would be my first choice.

Fair enough. Thats a much more positive result then i would have expected. Thats why i tagg3d you tho. I remeber you being in one of the threads with someone who liked the stuff. Do you rem3ber the name of the thread by any chance?

 

[JN230]

Not to hijack the thread but I thought it'd be useful.

Rank These PH on side effects and results
1 DHEA
3 DHEA
4 DHEA
7 DHEA
11 DHEA

I think I ranked them numerically but also the lower the # the better the mass gains right? and the higher the # the better for fatloss/cutting?

But sides/PCT required. How do they rank?