Mid cycle bloods - some surprises

Whisky

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Posted this in my cycle log but thought I’d throw it up here as I’m keen to get some views on this one.

I’m running 600mg test a week plus 50mg winny Ed at the moment (had a Tbol and liquidien kicker for first 6 weeks) currently coming up to end of week 12.

Using hcg at 250iu twice a week and adex 0.5 eod

Aside from a massive amount of water retention I’ve no obvious Estro sides (no nipple sensitivity etc)

Weight is up over 30lbs but like I say lots of water (15lbs went on in first two weeks)

Strength is way up, definition is way down.

These were my bloods taken a few days ago - I’m thinking I’m aromatising a shed load of test....

B00209D4-80AE-4137-9813-635987808C42.png
 
Godstrength

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Estro is high as shyt? Estro is actually good for strength, too much would explain definition loss (softness).

LH is almost non existent hcg would explain that I think

Free test is way up
Shbg is low so thats good. Winstrol probably helping out w that as well as free test.

Dhea is good tho lol

What do you think Whisky

Also just curious how are the lipids?
 
Whisky

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Estro is high as shyt? Estro is actually good for strength, too much would explain definition loss (softness).

LH is almost non existent hcg would explain that I think

Free test is way up
Shbg is low so thats good. Winstrol probably helping out w that as well as free test.

Dhea is good tho lol

What do you think Whisky

Also just curious how are the lipids?
Unfortunately I’m in the uk so bloods are a touch pricey - didn’t do lipids for that reason (but have done them between cycles).

The LH/FSH I was expecting as the test will have shut them down and if I understand it correctly hcg only mimics the action to keep the testes working (no noticeable atrophy), but in tests it doesn’t show as lh/fsh (only know that from pregnancy tests where they have to differentiate to avoid false positives).

The test is lower than expected and the estrogen higher so my guess at the moment is that I’m aromatising a lot of the test (possibly linked to being an ex fatty), currently reading up on it though. I have exem and plenty of nolva along with more adex, got a feeling I might need letro for this but I need to research it more to be honest.
 
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Unfortunately I’m in the uk so bloods are a touch pricey - didn’t do lipids for that reason (but have done them between cycles).

The LH/FSH I was expecting as the test will have shut them down and if I understand it correctly hcg only mimics the action to keep the testes working (no noticeable atrophy), but in tests it doesn’t show as lh/fsh (only know that from pregnancy tests where they have to differentiate to avoid false positives).

The test is lower than expected and the estrogen higher so my guess at the moment is that I’m aromatising a lot of the test (possibly linked to being an ex fatty), currently reading up on it though. I have exem and plenty of nolva along with more adex, got a feeling I might need letro for this but I need to research it more to be honest.
Your free test is high and your shbg is low... You want my honest opinion? You're running too much test. That's why your body is converting to estrogen. With your free test high and your shbg low your in great standing. Where it stands your body is efficiently processing the testosterone there's just too much circulating in my opinion. You could probably see just as good if not better results / less side effects at 400 on the test. Coupled with the Winstrol that should be plenty and in my experience test and Winstrol have an awesome synergy. One is wet the other is dry and a dht.

That's just my opinion looking at your Bloods and giving my assessment.

Your free test and shbg is going to really determine how well your body is utilizing the testosterone that's in it.
 
Whisky

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Your free test is high and your shbg is low... You want my honest opinion? You're running too much test. That's why your body is converting to estrogen. With your free test high and your shbg low your in great standing. Where it stands your body is efficiently processing the testosterone there's just too much circulating in my opinion. You could probably see just as good if not better results / less side effects at 400 on the test. Coupled with the Winstrol that should be plenty and in my experience test and Winstrol have an awesome synergy. One is wet the other is dry and a dht.

That's just my opinion looking at your Bloods and giving my assessment.

Your free test and shbg is going to really determine how well your body is utilizing the testosterone that's in it.
That’s really useful, thanks bro......this is why I love this site
 
Godstrength

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That’s really useful, thanks bro......this is why I love this site
No problem man... if you think about it this way your body is only able to utilize so much of the test. What it's not able to it's converting to estrogen. That's why you see you're testosterone not as high as you'd like on 600 mg but your estrogen much higher as well.

Obviously you want to use some form of ai to start to bring it down. My suggestion to you there is to start aggressive and then slowly back it off. The Winstrol being a DHT will help bring it under control as well. Through experience I've learned you can be over aggressive and then crash your estrogen at which point it's too late. You don't want to spend the last part of your cycle recovering from crashed estrogen that sucks. Plus on the Winstrol would not be a good combo for low estrogen LOL. You'll know when you start coming back in range because your body will start tightening back up and you will start to see the definition come back. At that point I would back off and continue to use it but only at a fraction of what you're starting with.

This is where experience and knowing your body and how you react hormonally in certain environments comes into play. Youve run a good amount of gear up until this point on this cycle. That's why people often suggest starting with test only for first cycle. However I know you're well educated and have been doing this long enough with the prohormones Etc that you should be able to figure it out. Honestly this will be a great learning experience for you in my opinion. And if you continue to run cycles what you do or don't do at this point will help you to better understand what to do in the future when you get into a similar situation. Obviously without the blood work it's going to be hard to tell exactly where your estrogen levels are so you kind of have to navigate through by feels. You just don't want to crash your estrogen bro mark my words. You probably know all this stuff man, dont wanna sound preachy.

 
Whisky

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No problem man... if you think about it this way your body is only able to utilize so much of the test. What it's not able to it's converting to estrogen. That's why you see you're testosterone not as high as you'd like on 600 mg but your estrogen much higher as well.

Obviously you want to use some form of ai to start to bring it down. My suggestion to you there is to start aggressive and then slowly back it off. The Winstrol being a DHT will help bring it under control as well. Through experience I've learned you can be over aggressive and then crash your estrogen at which point it's too late. You don't want to spend the last part of your cycle recovering from crashed estrogen that sucks. Plus on the Winstrol would not be a good combo for low estrogen LOL. You'll know when you start coming back in range because your body will start tightening back up and you will start to see the definition come back. At that point I would back off and continue to use it but only at a fraction of what you're starting with.

This is where experience and knowing your body and how you react hormonally in certain environments comes into play. Youve run a good amount of gear up until this point on this cycle. That's why people often suggest starting with test only for first cycle. However I know you're well educated and have been doing this long enough with the prohormones Etc that you should be able to figure it out. Honestly this will be a great learning experience for you in my opinion. And if you continue to run cycles what you do or don't do at this point will help you to better understand what to do in the future when you get into a similar situation. Obviously without the blood work it's going to be hard to tell exactly where your estrogen levels are so you kind of have to navigate through by feels. You just don't want to crash your estrogen bro mark my words. You probably know all this stuff man, dont wanna sound preachy.

Not preachy at all bro. It’s good advice, thank you.

Increased the ai dose and currently just monitoring. Definitely thinking next cycle running lower test (300 ish) with an injectable dht derivative
 
GreekTheBrick

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Posted this in my cycle log but thought I’d throw it up here as I’m keen to get some views on this one.

I’m running 600mg test a week plus 50mg winny Ed at the moment (had a Tbol and liquidien kicker for first 6 weeks) currently coming up to end of week 12.

Using hcg at 250iu twice a week and adex 0.5 eod

Aside from a massive amount of water retention I’ve no obvious Estro sides (no nipple sensitivity etc)

Weight is up over 30lbs but like I say lots of water (15lbs went on in first two weeks)

Strength is way up, definition is way down.

These were my bloods taken a few days ago - I’m thinking I’m aromatising a shed load of test....

View attachment 174401
I think you are puzzled with how you feel-fine- isnt relevant with what you see on the bloods-I mean mostly high E2. Am I correct?
 
Whisky

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I think you are puzzled with how you feel-fine- isnt relevant with what you see on the bloods-I mean mostly high E2. Am I correct?
Main surprise was the lack of gyno sides with estrogen at that level (aside from water retention ive not had anything else).....
 
GreekTheBrick

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I wil tell you my findings. Last winter on my blast-that is 540mg of test e and some aromasin twice a week-was all fine and all. With some bloating but no libido issues, no lethargy, etc. Until I decided to do bloods. E2 came up like 300 to a scale of under 50 being normal. I was alerted. I upped aromasin and felt like death.. Did bloods, E2 within range. I insisted. I had to stay within range. Felt worst. After two months I decided to lower aromasin and go again by feeling. Felt much better, libido came back and all. Did bloods, yes E2 came close to 250. Mind that total test was over 3000 to a range of 300-800.

What I have learnt. E2 and test go hand to hand. They are corelated. You cant expect to have 300% more test and E2 to stay the same. It isnt healthy. I think there is a relation of 1/14 that is if test is 1400, E2 is expected to be 100.

Anyway, this is what it worked for me, I would suggest to take some Ralox to be gyno protected and maybe up A LITTLE arimidex dose. If you feel fine, isnt this more than enough?
 

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Gyno sides take time. If your estro and prolactin stays elevated it'll come trust me. Personally, I'd up the a.i. dosage.
 
Whisky

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I wil tell you my findings. Last winter on my blast-that is 540mg of test e and some aromasin twice a week-was all fine and all. With some bloating but no libido issues, no lethargy, etc. Until I decided to do bloods. E2 came up like 300 to a scale of under 50 being normal. I was alerted. I upped aromasin and felt like death.. Did bloods, E2 within range. I insisted. I had to stay within range. Felt worst. After two months I decided to lower aromasin and go again by feeling. Felt much better, libido came back and all. Did bloods, yes E2 came close to 250. Mind that total test was over 3000 to a range of 300-800.

What I have learnt. E2 and test go hand to hand. They are corelated. You cant expect to have 300% more test and E2 to stay the same. It isnt healthy. I think there is a relation of 1/14 that is if test is 1400, E2 is expected to be 100.

Anyway, this is what it worked for me, I would suggest to take some Ralox to be gyno protected and maybe up A LITTLE arimidex dose. If you feel fine, isnt this more than enough?
Yep I’m not doing anything drastic as I do feel ok but at the same time I want to try and improve the ratio of test to estro and dial in an ai for future cycles.

Happy to carry some water but 15lbs ish is a touch annoying.

Was expecting and wanted estro to be elevated by the way, it’s the ratio to test that’s out imo.....but I’m still learning big style hence looking for wider input. Thanks for your comment.
 
Old Witch

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I think you have the right idea, this is a good time to start an AI and get it dialed in.

Personally I see things differently from above, in that I think you ought to start off mild with the AI dose and then titrate the dosage either up or down as needed. Something like 12.5mg exemestane on pinning days to start, and then figure out where to go from there.

That way, hopefully, you don't end up crashing E2.
 
Old Witch

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Or, I suppose, since you're in the uk, you can get something OTC like 6oxo or ATD. Those work.
 
Whisky

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Or, I suppose, since you're in the uk, you can get something OTC like 6oxo or ATD. Those work.
Cheers bro, already running adex at 0.5 eod (just increased that). Have exem on hand as well if needed
 

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