Methylation Toxicity

[Pleonastic]

Im just wondering how it works. Say substance A is not recommended to use for more than 4 weeks at 30mgs everyday... could you then use it at 15 mgs everyday for 8 weeks ? Or 30mgs EOD for 8 weeks? Or 12 weeks everyday at 10mgs?

Can you just do the math and keep the ratio equal?

Is that how toxicity works? Or its it just like 4 weeks is the max length regardless of how much per day?

I'm not asking about the effectiveness per se, as I stated this is just generic "substance A". I'm just asking about toxicity organ damage etc.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I wouldn't bother extending cycles that are methylated past 6 weeks, especially dimethyls. As far as toxicity, as long as you're healthy and play it smart, you'll be fine.

 

[Bunshichi]

Ok. Here is how it works.

The Toxicity of a compound depends on its structure (with 17-alpha-methyl being wordt for the liver) and on how well its able to widthstand mrtabolism.

The first variable to consider is the length you are running the compound. Thats because the liver is able to recover a lot damage but can not do so while getting too much stress wich causes scarring.

The second variable is the dose. You may run a really low dose a longer time due to lower damage in the live the point where it builds too much scarr tissue is further away.

But here the point comes where you see its not equal with the cumulative dose.
You are safer off running your gram of compound a in 3 weeks rather than 10mg over a hundred days.
At least liver-wise that is.

 

[mmorso]

I agree with Bunshichi here but want to add that when lowering the dose or taking a compound eod you need to start to consider the risk/reward ratio... is it worth effecting your HPTA, is it worth stressing your liver, is it worth getting lipid levels out of whack (all of which you will do to some extent taking a PH/DS/AAS in a low dose or eod) to get inferior gains?

 

[Bunshichi]

I agree with Bunshichi here but want to add that when lowering the dose or taking a compound eod you need to start to consider the risk/reward ratio... is it worth effecting your HPTA, is it worth stressing your liver, is it worth getting lipid levels out of whack (all of which you will do to some extent taking a PH/DS/AAS in a low dose or eod) to get inferior gains?

Thats right.
And same goes for really short cycles. Low risk NO reward is not the way to go either xD

 

[ChocolateClen]

If you're putting yourself at high risk by running one of these, then keep the time at risk as short as possible to receive maximal gains and minimal damage, OR keep the time at risk longer but lesser risk and receive inferior gains and lesser damage

 

[Pleonastic]

But here the point comes where you see its not equal with the cumulative dose.
You are safer off running your gram of compound a in 3 weeks rather than 10mg over a hundred days.
At least liver-wise that is.

10mg every day for 100 days would be a total of 1000mg ingested. In 3 weeks, 21 days, you'd have to take roughly 48mgs a day to equal 1000mg.
So you are saying a 1000mg over 21 days is safer than 1000mg over 100 days. Is there any evidence that this is true? I'm not saying your wrong. I'm asking if there's ever been studies or if this has been basically proven.

Also how long would it take the liver to fully recover? Could you do 2 weeks on 2 off or a week on week off for a really long time? I'm inquiring about just the toxicity and liver damage. I'm NOT asking about test shutdown or gains or results or anything. Just asking about the safety.

 

[Bunshichi]

No. There are no studys I know. However the way cellproliferation and building of fibrous tissue works thats the logic solution and the only logic solution.
(Before you say bro science keep in mind that actual scientists work exactly that way IF there were no studys on exactly the point luminated done until that time.)

It depends on the damage done how long healing will take of course.
Liver stress and mild damage however SEEMS to be regenerated after about four weeks based on the case reports I have read.

 

[Pleonastic]

One more question for you. I'll be specific now I'm thinking of taking m1t or superdrol. I want to take it on workout days only 10mg. I will not take any on off days. I'll workout 3-4 days a week, mostly just 3. Do you think it would be safe to dose it that way for as long as 8 weeks?

I did understand what your saying that longer is worse than higher dose. But 30mg a day is considered somewhat max dose of theses substances, and I'm planning on using just 30mg per week. I would have to believe that at that low a dose I can extend the cycle a bit, no?

 

[ChocolateClen]

So if kidneys filter the blood, why are there waaaay more cases of liver failure then kidney issues? Surely the kidneys have to clear all the stuff out once broken down

 

[Manhataan]

Good question. If what you're taking is definitely methylated, I would not take it over a longer course of time, even if it's at half the dose. Certainly, less of it is less harmful, but anything hepatoxic is no bueno for your liver. If you end up going with non-methylated PH in the future, just take them with dihydroxybergamottin for better absorption. Methylated=best absorbed, but more harmful by a lot.

 

[Whacked]

Take adequate amounts of NAC and TUDCA/UDCA throughout your "extended" methylated oral run and MOST people will be just fine / experience only mild (inconsequential) hepatotoxic manifestations related to liver stress such as elevated enzymes, bilirubin, etc.

 

[Bunshichi]

One more question for you. I'll be specific now I'm thinking of taking m1t or superdrol. I want to take it on workout days only 10mg. I will not take any on off days. I'll workout 3-4 days a week, mostly just 3. Do you think it would be safe to dose it that way for as long as 8 weeks?

I did understand what your saying that longer is worse than higher dose. But 30mg a day is considered somewhat max dose of theses substances, and I'm planning on using just 30mg per week. I would have to believe that at that low a dose I can extend the cycle a bit, no?

You probably can without a problem. However I hope you realize that you will make poor gains compared to other approaches.

 

[Bunshichi]

So if kidneys filter the blood, why are there waaaay more cases of liver failure then kidney issues? Surely the kidneys have to clear all the stuff out once broken down

Because the kidney does not process the substances and also will not have as much retention. The liver will only filter it out via ultrafiltration and that works in a "mechanic" way.
The biggest problem for the kidneys on steroids are elevated blood pressure and not raising fluid intake to "wash out" the additional "waste".