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MEADOWS periworkout Supplement/nutrition protocol

Distilled Water said:
So when you said you used HBCD (the main ingredient at the base of intra carb discussion) you lied? I'm very confused
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I think he's just stating that he hasn't used John Meadow's specific product, but maybe the ingredients in it (using other products)
 
OutOfStep said:
Absolutes? Ahh...no. I never used the terms always or never. Maybe you missed the "IMO" part of my post. I've been training and working in the field of nutrition long enough to have formed my own opinion on the topic. I'm just sharing my opinion same as everyone else in this thread. Training logs? Lmfao I hope you're joking buddy. I'd be embarrassed to call myself a professional if online training logs was how I drew my conclusions about sports nutrition methodologies.

I love science and its application; it helps me create new exercise variations and critique existing ones (force vectors, torque forces, movement at a joint, muscle activation, neural component to strength and many other things) as well as understanding progression, periodization etc


Look, if parading around the gym with your jug of antifreeze gives you the warm and fuzzies, then have at it. I just don't presonaly see the utility in spending $100 a month on hbcd and hydrolyzed casein when a bowl of Captain Crunch and milk will do the same thing for a lot less money and taste better to boot.
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I never spoke about using JM product. Just intra workout in general. Professionals should always be open to anecdotal feedback but recognize where it is not grounded in anything substantial. You use anecdotal feedback to shape your research or as a basis for room for improvement. If 10 people told me out of 20 that they recovered better by using some form of carb intra, then why not try that out with new clients. Sure, they may fall under the 10 that get no benefit but what if they don't?

After all, even if their recovery is "placebo"; recovery is subjective. I have learnt a lot more by being open to what others experience than I ever did following protocols as they are laid out in a text book. Use that as a basis for understanding how things work, then extrapolate ideas from this. We grow by trying and pushing limitations, not being restricted by them


Royd The Noyd said:
I love John, I have written articles for his paid site, but I'm not paying $2 a serving.

He has said that it will not contain pepto pro, so it's not going to be like plazma in that regard (which is really what makes plazma expensive).
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I wont be paying that either.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
He has said that it will not contain pepto pro, so it's not going to be like plazma in that regard (which is really what makes plazma expensive).
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Plazma does not contain PeptoPro either. It is simply listed as "Highly Structuralized Di-/Tripeptides" If they were paying a premium for patented PeptoPro I'm sure they would make reference to it on the label.

As previously mentioned, my personal experience with hydrolyzed casein shows PeptoPro to dissolve much better in water. However, I'm not sure how much this would impact absorption in the body.
 
FireRescue said:
I don't think very many people have used the Prime intra product that carries the MD name except for maybe a few beta testers. The pre-sale on the product starts Monday.
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Exactly what I am trying to tell him as well

Distilled Water said:
So when you said you used HBCD (the main ingredient at the base of intra carb discussion) you lied? I'm very confused
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Read what you wrote

Distilled Water said:
The top intra hater Thesoultion hated on it forever but after getting some JM intra says he's recovery is much improved.
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I have not tried the intra product by prime
Or JM

I have stated that 3 times now
 
You side step the task at hand. Keep deflecting. I was simply stating you've openly stated you have used HBCD intra and said it improves your recovery. End of story.

mod edit: last warning

I realize how unprofessional I'm being right now but I'm saying what the actual respectable and helpful AM users are thinking. It needed to be said.

I was able to post this bc of my superior recovery from my HBCD/EAA/Cit malate and agmatine mix during my higher volume chest day :thumbsup:
 
Hopefully the etailers have it for cheaper. Shame its doesnt use peptopro, yet is still spendy.
 
Hopefully the pricepoint lowers. I plan on trying this stuff out when I start doing heavy conditioning for sports + lifting.
 
The Solution said:
Let me BOLD what you are telling me and what i am telling you is that I have not used the JM intra I do not work for Prime I have not beta-tested the product THE JM INTRA HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED
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It's a reference. Glad to see you take things literally and cannot use critical thinking skills to peeve together I was speaking mostly to the fact HBCD is the main component in JM formula and you have attested to it helping your recovery a number of times....

a rational response would have looked something similar to below

No I haven't used the actual JM intra but I have used HBCD intra workout and saw a huge change in recovery but you will continue to lie as you do with your reviews etc...

I know JM intra isn't out yet....and I see you posting about how you cannot wait for it to be released. One would speculate the only reason you're excited is bc you have used a similar protocol and seen the benefits.

Can't wait to see you try and spin this....
 
FireRescue said:
Plazma does not contain PeptoPro either. It is simply listed as "Highly Structuralized Di-/Tripeptides" If they were paying a premium for patented PeptoPro I'm sure they would make reference to it on the label.

As previously mentioned, my personal experience with hydrolyzed casein shows PeptoPro to dissolve much better in water. However, I'm not sure how much this would impact absorption in the body.
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Not necessarily on the label notation for what they use. For example, Chromadex makes the C3G for them for Indigo-3G, Chromadex owns that specific ingredient as is provided. There is no reference to Chromadex anywhere in the marketing or on the label.

They've also mentioned on their board that supposedly they have a higher tri and di peptide content than Peptopro.
 
Distilled Water said:
You apparently lack the ability to read...

I also like to add to the people who add "anything works a that much drug and slin use" you people are the definition of ignorant. Keep tryin to cut people down for being better than you. Thousands of people are gas'd up at our gyms and look like sh!t. I Know about 4 at my gym on growth and 1gr test a week and kinda look like thy work out. Stop being so close minded and actually look at the sample at work here.

I also find it comical almost everyone in this thread that's posted about using a meadows peri workout regimen notices improvement while those who HAVENT. says it sucks...

The top intra hater Thesoultion hated on it forever but after getting some JM intra says he's recovery is much improved.
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Boo hoo. Another crybaby who gets his manties in a twist whenever someone doesn't agree with his intra workout drink. Go back and read my post. I tried intras and didn't get anything from it that a regular pre workout meal couldn't provide. Maybe you should learn some basic physiology and pull your head out of the supplement industry's ass.
 
OutOfStep said:
Boo hoo. Another crybaby who gets his manties in a twist whenever someone doesn't agree with his intra workout drink. Go back and read my post. I tried intras and didn't get anything from it that a regular pre workout meal couldn't provide. Maybe you should learn some basic physiology and pull your head out of the supplement industry's ass.
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I'm 5'8, 210lbs with abs....think I really care if you agree with my practices?....hardly.

I'm good with my advanced understanding of MPB and MPS
 
kissdadookie said:
Not necessarily on the label notation for what they use. For example, Chromadex makes the C3G for them for Indigo-3G, Chromadex owns that specific ingredient as is provided. There is no reference to Chromadex anywhere in the marketing or on the label.
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From what I can tell, Chromadex has a trademark on ProCG3 as the name of the product but they do not appear to have a patent on the product itself so it is not analogous to the PeptoPro in this context. However, I do agree that by looking at the Patent that the owner of Biotest has filed for C3G that they are getting their raw ingredient from Chromadex.

They've also mentioned on their board that supposedly they have a higher tri and di peptide content than Peptopro.
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If this were true they would be foolish not to Patent this a they would have a hydrolyzed protein with a higher percentage of di-/tripeptides that any other hydrolyzed protein on the market. However, without them providing any proof of this statement, it is hard to believe it is accurate.
 
FireRescue said:
From what I can tell, Chromadex has a trademark on ProCG3 as the name of the product but they do not appear to have a patent on the product itself so it is not analogous to the PeptoPro in this context. However, I do agree that by looking at the Patent that the owner of Biotest has filed for C3G that they are getting their raw ingredient from Chromadex.



If this were true they would be foolish not to Patent this a they would have a hydrolyzed protein with a higher percentage of di-/tripeptides that any other hydrolyzed protein on the market. However, without them providing any proof of this statement, it is hard to believe it is accurate.
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Why would they patent and license any of their stuff? They make better margins selling stuff at their current pricing and people buy a chit ton of it.

I believe that they also get their Forskolin from sabansa. There's no reference of sabansa anywhere on the marketing of the Forskolin products and labels.

That appears to be how that company operates, getting stuff from the main sources but marketing it all as if they invented it. Pretty smart IMO. Regardless of their marketing strategies though, the quality is certainly there and consistent.
 
OutOfStep said:
*yawn* E-stats and advanced e-knowledge. Neat. When do the tears and foot stomping begin?
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Are you always immature? Or just when you think everyone needs to agree with you?

OutOfStep said:
I'll get right on that. No doubt that will have me rethinking my opinion on intra workout supplementation!
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That's good to hear!
 
Jiigzz said:
Are you always immature? Or just when you think everyone needs to agree with you?
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Please, quote the post where I claim everyone should agree with me. I've made it abundantly clear that this is my OPINION. What is it about someone having an opinion different from your own that causes you guys to act like a bunch of petulant children? I get called ignorant for having an educated opinion that doesn't fall in line with what you believe and I'm immature? I've yet so see anyone provide an explanation of how these drinks provide a benefit beyond what a pre workout meal of similar calories and macros would provide. Why don't one of you geniuses with your "advanced understanding of mpd and mps" enlighten me, because "check my log bro" and e-stats just don't do it for me.
 
OutOfStep said:
Please, quote the post where I claim everyone should agree with me. I've made it abundantly clear that this is my OPINION. What is it about someone having an opinion different from your own that causes you guys to act like a bunch of petulant children? I get called ignorant for having an educated opinion that doesn't fall in line with what you believe and I'm immature? I've yet so see anyone provide an explanation of how these drinks provide a benefit beyond what a pre workout meal of similar calories and macros would provide. Why don't one of you geniuses with your "advanced understanding of mpd and mps" enlighten me, because "check my log bro" and e-stats just don't do it for me.
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Perhaps you should re-read your own posts and decide for yourself who is acting like a child, hmm?

It should not work for short duration exercise, but it still does

Interestingly, 16 out of 23 studies, Trent Stellingwerff and Gregory R. Cox from the Canadian Sport Institute-Pacific and the Australian Institute of Sport reviewed for their recent paper in Applied Physiology have found that carbohydrate supplementation and/or oral (mouth) exposure to carbohydrate can improve performance of tasks less than 1 hour in duration:
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Source: Invalid Link Removed

A more relevant question to bodybuilding may be whether protein and/or amino acid timing affect LBM maintenance. With little exception [74], acute studies have consistently shown that ingesting protein/essential amino acids and carbohydrate near or during the training bout can increase muscle protein synthesis (MPS) and suppress muscle protein breakdown [75-79]. However, there is a disparity between short- and long-term outcomes in studies examining the effect of nutrient timing on resistance training adaptations.
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Source: Invalid Link Removed

Of course, no study yet exists that demonstrates the effectiveness of our protocols using our routines. Afterall, my routine consists of more than bicep curls and leg extensions

Edit: you either follow it or you dont. Those who do enjoy it so rather than knock what you dont agree with, just accept that deep down, I dont really care :)
 
Jiigzz said:
Perhaps you should re-read your own posts and decide for yourself who is acting like a child, hmm?

Source: Invalid Link Removed

Source: Invalid Link Removed

Of course, no study yet exists that demonstrates the effectiveness of our protocols using our routines. Afterall, my routine consists of more than bicep curls and leg extensions

Edit: you either follow it or you dont. Those who do enjoy it so rather than knock what you dont agree with, just accept that deep down, I dont really care :)
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None of your copy and paste answers the question I asked. Evidently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Tough to debate this stuff when you're dealing with wannabe experts with Wikipedia nutrition degrees. And I disagree, you care deeply what I think. Why else would you carry on with all the foot stomping and tantrum throwing simply because I don't agree with you? You can call me immature all you like. Where I come from we call it busting balls and I do a lot of it so get used to it. Carry on with your kool aid drink. You guys are a supplement marketers wet dream. :-)
 
Ï
OutOfStep said:
None of your copy and paste answers the question I asked. Evidently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Tough to debate this stuff when you're dealing with wannabe experts with Wikipedia nutrition degrees. And I disagree, you care deeply what I think. Why else would you carry on with all the foot stomping and tantrum throwing simply because I don't agree with you? You can call me immature all you like. Where I come from we call it busting balls and I do a lot of it so get used to it. Carry on with your kool aid drink. You guys are a supplement marketers wet dream. :-)
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What does supplement marketers have to do with any of this? Most of these studies having to do with intra workout nutrients aren't even funded by the supplement industry.

Granted, supplement companies usually take these studies and use them for their ad copies, but who wouldn't? It's free to reference these studies and is a value add for your marketing material.
 
kissdadookie said:
Ï

What does supplement marketers have to do with any of this? Most of these studies having to do with intra workout nutrients aren't even funded by the supplement industry.

Granted, supplement companies usually take these studies and use them for their ad copies, but who wouldn't? It's free to reference these studies and is a value add for your marketing material.
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Another literacy challenged poster checks in. Just so happens to be a guy who's never met a supplement he didn't like. I'll bet supplement company CEOs keep a framed picture of you on their nighstands.
 
OutOfStep said:
Another literacy challenged poster checks in. Just so happens to be a guy who's never met a supplement he didn't like. I'll bet supplement company CEOs keep a framed picture of you on their nighstands.
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You didn't address the point I made. So what you have just posted there and your opinions of me really is nonsensical.

Majority of these peri workout studies are not funded by the supplement industry. For goodness sakes, the study in question in the SuppVersity post was using glucose + fructose, not any special carbs, not even Gatorade.

I'm supposed to the the illiterate one? Huh? o.O
 
kissdadookie said:
You didn't address the point I made. So what you have just posted there and your opinions of me really is nonsensical.

Majority of these peri workout studies are not funded by the supplement industry. For goodness sakes, the study in question in the SuppVersity post was using glucose + fructose, not any special carbs, not even Gatorade.

I'm supposed to the the illiterate one? Huh? o.O
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So who said anything about study funding? You came up with that, not me. I'm quite capable of interpreting research on its own merit. I don't disregard a study simply because of the funding source. Someone has to pay for it.
 
OutOfStep said:
So who said anything about study funding? You came up with that, not me. I'm quite capable of interpreting research on my own. I don't disregard a study simply because of the funding source. Someone has to pay for it.
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I absolutely agree with the bolded above. As long as the study is carried out in a legitimate manner, does it really matter who funded it? It's always a good thing to keep in mind, but it doesn't necessarily mean a study is invalid.
 
OutOfStep said:
So who said anything about study funding? You came up with that, not me. I'm quite capable of interpreting research on my own. I don't disregard a study simply because of the funding source. Someone has to pay for it.
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Go reread your post that I responded to. Your post essentially implied it, or else why would you bring the issue of supplement industry/marketing into a discussion on a study that has no supplement industry ties?
 
OutOfStep said:
Please, quote the post where I claim everyone should agree with me. I've made it abundantly clear that this is my OPINION. What is it about someone having an opinion different from your own that causes you guys to act like a bunch of petulant children? I get called ignorant for having an educated opinion that doesn't fall in line with what you believe and I'm immature? I've yet so see anyone provide an explanation of how these drinks provide a benefit beyond what a pre workout meal of similar calories and macros would provide. Why don't one of you geniuses with your "advanced understanding of mpd and mps" enlighten me, because "check my log bro" and e-stats just don't do it for me.
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How is this post not answered by my own? Additionally?, do you have any studies that compare intra workout supplementation with a protocol of equal calorie and macro breakdown that does not include intra workout in healthly bodybuilders showing no benefit? Esp on regards to heightened recovery?

If not, then where exactly does your 'educated' opinion stem from?
 
Misfit28 said:
I absolutely agree with the bolded above. As long as the study is carried out in a legitimate manner, does it really matter who funded it? It's always a good thing to keep in mind, but it doesn't necessarily mean a study is invalid.
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Well said.
 
Jiigzz said:
How is this post not answered by my own?
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Okay, you're either trolling me now, or you are completely brain dead. First of all, if you're going to go all copy and paste on me, then link me to a primary source full text, not someone's interpretation of a study or an abstract to a study you never read. I get a kick out of you message board e-nutrition experts. You can't debate a damn thing without linking to someone else's work. It's always Suppversity, Lyle Mcdonald, Alan Aragon, or Layne Norton's work you are either parroting back or posting a link to so they can do the talking for you. What's the matter, can't do any thinking on your own and formulate an argument in your own words?

You posted a link to an article about carbohydrate supplementation for endurance athletes that has no relevance to the conversation here or my question. A preworkout meal of ordinary food with comparable calories and macros means elevated levels of glucose, amino acids and insulin during my workout. Why do I need to spend $60 on some mystical and magical concoction of highly branched and hydrolyzed unicorn semen to do the same thing? The only scenario I can see an intra workout drink having any benefit is if someone trains so early in the morning that they don't have time for a quick meal before they hit the gym. Otherwise, a bowl of cereal and milk or jug of chocolate milk or whatever else you'd prefer with similar calories and macros would do the same thing. There is no recovery or hypertrophy advantage to be had consuming these nutrients via a supplement drink during your workout. Your money would be better spent elsewhere IMO.

Take two weight training athletes and match daily calorie, macro, and mircronutrients. Give one a preworkout (1-2 hours before training) meal of ordinary foodstuffs and give the other an intra workout drink with similar calories/macros and tell me what advantage the intra workout drink provides. If and when a body of research is formed showing a clear cut advantage to consuming these nutrients during a workout via a supplemental beverage, I'll be the first to sing its praises. Until then, I have a supplement budget to adhere to like most folks and I'd rather not piss my money away for no reason.

Look, I want to maximize my workouts and nutrition program to achieve the best gains possible, same as you. I've been at this for 20+ years and even went through the trouble of obtaining a degree in dietetics just because I had a passion for learning and wanted a more in depth understanding of physiology and nutrition science. I'm still studying and learning everything I can to continue expanding my knowledge and stay current with new developments in the field. I'm just trying to be practical here. I'm totally open to changing my thinking if someone can provide the evidence, but I've got food logs going back five years. Everything I eat weighed out on a scale and logged. I've moved meals around every way you can think of and seen no clear advantage to consuming these type of supplements versus getting these nutrients through regular food consumed around my workouts. As I said, if someone can provide a reasonable explanation as to why my thinking is flawed, I'm all ears. I only want to get the best out of my gym efforts, same as you guys, and provide my clients with the best information possible. The supplement industry neither puts money into, nor takes money from my pocket. I'll spend my money on whatever I feel benefits me the most.
 
I would argue that the convenience of the intra workout drinks itself is an advantage.

I'm not convinced that the timing (preworkout meal:intraworkout drink of similar macronutrient breakdown) is incredibly important.

But, I firmly believe that drinking it during a workout is much more convenient (I'm probably going to be drinking water anyway, so why not make it taste better and have caloric value). Especially since sometimes people (including myself) just get tired of stuffing down full meals, and liquid calories are much easier to ingest.
 
OutOfStep said:
Okay, you're either trolling me now, or you are completely brain dead. First of all, if you're going to go all copy and paste on me, then link me to a primary source full text, not someone's interpretation of a study or an abstract to a study you never read. I get a kick out of you message board e-nutrition experts. You can't debate a damn thing without linking to someone else's work. It's always Suppversity, Lyle Mcdonald, Alan Aragon, or Layne Norton's work you are either parroting back or posting a link to so they can do the talking for you. What's the matter, can't do any thinking on your own and formulate an argument in your own words?

You posted a link to an article about carbohydrate supplementation for endurance athletes that has no relevance to the conversation here or my question. A preworkout meal of ordinary food with comparable calories and macros means elevated levels of glucose, amino acids and insulin during my workout. Why do I need to spend $60 on some mystical and magical concoction of highly branched and hydrolyzed unicorn semen to do the same thing? The only scenario I can see an intra workout drink having any benefit is if someone trains so early in the morning that they don't have time for a quick meal before they hit the gym. Otherwise, a bowl of cereal and milk or jug of chocolate milk or whatever else you'd prefer with similar calories and macros would do the same thing. There is no recovery or hypertrophy advantage to be had consuming these nutrients via a supplement drink during your workout. Your money would be better spent elsewhere IMO.

Take two weight training athletes and match daily calorie, macro, and mircronutrients. Give one a preworkout (1-2 hours before training) meal of ordinary foodstuffs and give the other an intra workout drink with similar calories/macros and tell me what advantage the intra workout drink provides. If and when a body of research is formed showing a clear cut advantage to consuming these nutrients during a workout via a supplemental beverage, I'll be the first to sing its praises. Until then, I have a supplement budget to adhere to like most folks and I'd rather not piss my money away for no reason.

Look, I want to maximize my workouts and nutrition program to achieve the best gains possible, same as you. I've been at this for 20+ years and even went through the trouble of obtaining a degree in dietetics just because I had a passion for learning and wanted a more in depth understanding of physiology and nutrition science. I'm still studying and learning everything I can to continue expanding my knowledge and stay current with new developments in the field. I'm just trying to be practical here. I'm totally open to changing my thinking if someone can provide the evidence, but I've got food logs going back five years. Everything I eat weighed out on a scale and logged. I've moved meals around every way you can think of and seen no clear advantage to consuming these type of supplements versus getting these nutrients through regular food consumed around my workouts. As I said, if someone can provide a reasonable explanation as to why my thinking is flawed, I'm all ears. I only want to get the best out of my gym efforts, same as you guys, and provide my clients with the best information possible. The supplement industry neither puts money into, nor takes money from my pocket. I'll spend my money on whatever I feel benefits me the most.
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You say there is no benefit to intra workout nutrition above that which can be achieved via a pre and post meal? Who came to that conclusion? You or a scientist in a lab somewhere whose work you are parroting? You havent provided one shred of evidence to back your own standpoint under the circumstances you want me to provide evidence for.

Can you provide me with an argument refuting my own using sources which include bodybuilders and comparing intra workout supplementation and pre and post? I mean true bodybuilders and a routine which reflects that? If you cannot, then how do you know with such certainty that the routine shows no benefit.

Ill add further that until previously, forums parroted that 1g/lb of BW of protein was all that was required however now there are studies suggesting much higher I BBers. It would seem that a high volume routine seems to change the dynamic of things somewhat however the narrow minded (myself in the past included) cannot see beyond the scope of study limitations and bash those who dont follow their narrow mindedness. I too have a degree in exercise science so dont use your schooling as a means of thinking you have superiority. I have had many discussions with top level nutritionalists (dr grant schofield is one who I talk to regularly about keto and low carb diets) so this "I have a degree so im better than you" attitude you have is childish.

If youd rather sit back and wait for research comparing the exact requirements you are after to exist then that is your right, but stop trying to bash those who want to maximise recovery and performance in ways that work for them. Myself, breezy and DW may only be n=1 but if you follow their log and ones prior as well as my own anecdotal feedback, you will see this approach has markedly improved our performance. is that not why we are here? To discuss our own strategies?

Nobody is telling you to spend $60 on anything; I make my own from gatorade powder and fructose which I get cheaply. Costs me about 50 cents per workout if not less.

Lastly, I am not dismissing science and its application as I spend a lot of time researching nutrition and other things and the hows and whys of it, but what you must understand is that bodybuilding is not well understood and many studies are simply not designed to provide adequete answers; all we know is what we can work with and then extrapolate from that some protocols which we want to try.

Try it and see for yourself or dont.

In saying this, it will be the last post I make in this thread. Enjoy your day
 
Jiigzz said:
You say there is no benefit to intra workout nutrition above that which can be achieved via a pre and post meal? Who came to that conclusion? You or a scientist in a lab somewhere whose work you are parroting? You havent provided one shred of evidence to back your own standpoint under the circumstances you want me to provide evidence for.

Can you provide me with an argument refuting my own using sources which include bodybuilders and comparing intra workout supplementation and pre and post? I mean true bodybuilders and a routine which reflects that? If you cannot, then how do you know with such certainty that the routine shows no benefit.

Ill add further that until previously, forums parroted that 1g/lb of BW of protein was all that was required however now there are studies suggesting much higher I BBers. It would seem that a high volume routine seems to change the dynamic of things somewhat however the narrow minded (myself in the past included) cannot see beyond the scope of study limitations and bash those who dont follow their narrow mindedness. I too have a degree in exercise science so dont use your schooling as a means of thinking you have superiority. I have had many discussions with top level nutritionalists (dr grant schofield is one who I talk to regularly about keto and low carb diets) so this "I have a degree so im better than you" attitude you have is childish.

If youd rather sit back and wait for research comparing the exact requirements you are after to exist then that is your right, but stop trying to bash those who want to maximise recovery and performance in ways that work for them. Myself, breezy and DW may only be n=1 but if you follow their log and ones prior as well as my own anecdotal feedback, you will see this approach has markedly improved our performance. is that not why we are here? To discuss our own strategies?

Nobody is telling you to spend $60 on anything; I make my own from gatorade powder and fructose which I get cheaply. Costs me about 50 cents per workout if not less.

Lastly, I am not dismissing science and its application as I spend a lot of time researching nutrition and other things and the hows and whys of it, but what you must understand is that bodybuilding is not well understood and many studies are simply not designed to provide adequete answers; all we know is what we can work with and then extrapolate from that some protocols which we want to try.

Try it and see for yourself or dont.

In saying this, it will be the last post I make in this thread. Enjoy your day
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I didn't think you'd have much to offer beyond "it works for me bro." Enjoy your day as well.
 
Sometimes I wonder if it's just the intra-workout EAAs/Pepto Pro that is doing the recovery benefit, and not the intra-workout carbs.
 
Regarding his pre workout nutrition recommendations, is the 40g of protein, 30g carbs and 10g fat just of specific foods? I know that is worded horribly. For example, if I have pasta as my carb source and it has 5g of protein, would I only have 35g of protein from egg whites, meat, etc. of would I have 40g of protein from the lean protein source and not calculate that 5g from the pasta, making 45g total?
 
AntM1564 said:
Regarding his pre workout nutrition recommendations, is the 40g of protein, 30g carbs and 10g fat just of specific foods? I know that is worded horribly. For example, if I have pasta as my carb source and it has 5g of protein, would I only have 35g of protein from egg whites, meat, etc. of would I have 40g of protein from the lean protein source and not calculate that 5g from the pasta, making 45g total?
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It's just a rough guideline and not something to worry about. A lot of his clients use more or less than what's recommended in the article (pre, intra, and post), depending on many factors.
 
breezy11 said:
It's just a rough guideline and not something to worry about. A lot of his clients use more or less than what's recommended in the article (pre, intra, and post), depending on many factors.
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Sounds good, I figured that much anyways, thanks man!
 
OutOfStep said:
I didn't think you'd have much to offer beyond "it works for me bro." Enjoy your day as well.
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What exactly have you done besides insult, red herring, and not provide anything for your side?

Funny how you downplay peer-reviewed data and also anecdotal. What the hell do you base any of your opinions on if you ignore these two sources?
 
Rodja said:
What exactly have you done besides insult, red herring, and not provide anything for your side?

Funny how you downplay peer-reviewed data and also anecdotal. What the hell do you base any of your opinions on if you ignore these two sources?
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I was thinking the same thing. This guy hadn't said anything substantial throughout his 27 posts ITT.

BUT it's cool he's been in the game 20 years.... As if we give a fawk.
 
OutOfStep said:
You posted a link to an article about carbohydrate supplementation for endurance athletes that has no relevance to the conversation here or my question. A preworkout meal of ordinary food with comparable calories and macros means elevated levels of glucose, amino acids and insulin during my workout. Why do I need to spend $60 on some mystical and magical concoction of highly branched and hydrolyzed unicorn semen to do the same thing? The only scenario I can see an intra workout drink having any benefit is if someone trains so early in the morning that they don't have time for a quick meal before they hit the gym. Otherwise, a bowl of cereal and milk or jug of chocolate milk or whatever else you'd prefer with similar calories and macros would do the same thing. There is no recovery or hypertrophy advantage to be had consuming these nutrients via a supplement drink during your workout. Your money would be better spent elsewhere IMO.

Take two weight training athletes and match daily calorie, macro, and mircronutrients. Give one a preworkout (1-2 hours before training) meal of ordinary foodstuffs and give the other an intra workout drink with similar calories/macros and tell me what advantage the intra workout drink provides. If and when a body of research is formed showing a clear cut advantage to consuming these nutrients during a workout via a supplemental beverage, I'll be the first to sing its praises. Until then, I have a supplement budget to adhere to like most folks and I'd rather not piss my money away for no reason.
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For people who tend to make poor food choices day to day or have digestion problems there could be a difference I imagine. For huge guys trying to bulk, I imagine it could help because then they don't have to stuff their faces (and stomach and intestines) as much. And again, high volume programs that require almost 1.5ish hours in the gym.

Using intra-workout drinks can also be used as a way to "control" your diet. Find a sweet spot for amount and variety of real food in your diet that meets your caloric needs. Then you can manipulate your workout nutrition as a simple means to hit a surplus, all while maintaining the same day to day eating habits. Do you have to use a product that costs $2 a workout? Of course not.

You're likely oversimplifying arguments as well. Jugging chocolate milk will not be exactly the same.

IMO try out multiple strategies and learn to listen to your body. Obviously there are some people who think maximizing periworkout helps their game a lot. Then there are some really strong people out there who don't even take a multivitamin.
 
Meadows posted a label. Couldn't make out everything but it appeared to be 32g HBCD per serving plus
1 g glutamine
2 g Citrulline malate
Some EAA's

IOW probably something you can get at true nut for a lot cheaper without the pretty label.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Meadows posted a label. Couldn't make out everything but it appeared to be 32g HBCD per serving plus
1 g glutamine
2 g Citrulline malate
Some EAA's

IOW probably something you can get at true nut for a lot cheaper without the pretty label.
Click to expand...

Damn that's a low amount of CM.
 
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