vicmack777
Member
Another thing i havent noticed with this, is the "perpetual pump" I felt more of that on MethylD.
M4OHN, Lose Fat! Not Weight, Stregnth, Hair
- Thread starter CEDeoudes59
- Start date
HammyAbeer
New member
I would definitely consider lowering the volume to a sorta DC routine.
You will find your strength may go up..
With such a deficit you dont have the fuel to fuel your high volume.
Best of luck..
You will find your strength may go up..
With such a deficit you dont have the fuel to fuel your high volume.
Best of luck..
jjjd
Active member
hey die trying, i gotta disagree with you. here's why. i come from a strength training background (PLing and OLing)
i know guys who can squat (ass to the ground - no knee wraps, no belt) 2 1./2X bw and who can deadlift over that, yet they have SMALL arms. why? well, i know one thing. they are hella strong in squats, deads, and pulls, but they don't work their arms. they are OLers. that's why i don't believe the whole "squat and deadlift, and the rest will grow stuff". because in my experience, it just doesn't hold true. i've seen too many EXTREMELY strong squatters and deadlifters (and clean and jerkers for that matter) with noodle looking arms.
granted, in OLing we rarely do above triples, but the point still holds. fwiw (n=1) my arms are MUCH bigger (others notice it and have commented) than when I did workouts concentrating on squats and deadlifts. what did i change? i added arm work. bber style. Most olers do zero arm work, and neither did i.
I could show you workout tapes (ironmind.com) of 77 kilo lifters with huge squats (vanev comes to mind), and pulls (and needless to say deadlifts) with arms that you would think they didn't even workout. imo, to grow arms it is good to build a strong upper body base of pulling and pressing compounds (like rows and presses) and also adjunct arms workout. aranda is another example. the guy squatted 300 kilos (660 lbs) at 165 lb bodyweight. his arms were nothing to write home about though. his workouts consisted to squats, pulls (basically an explosive deadlift) jerks, cleans, snatches, and the occasional push press.
just my opinion and my experience
i know guys who can squat (ass to the ground - no knee wraps, no belt) 2 1./2X bw and who can deadlift over that, yet they have SMALL arms. why? well, i know one thing. they are hella strong in squats, deads, and pulls, but they don't work their arms. they are OLers. that's why i don't believe the whole "squat and deadlift, and the rest will grow stuff". because in my experience, it just doesn't hold true. i've seen too many EXTREMELY strong squatters and deadlifters (and clean and jerkers for that matter) with noodle looking arms.
granted, in OLing we rarely do above triples, but the point still holds. fwiw (n=1) my arms are MUCH bigger (others notice it and have commented) than when I did workouts concentrating on squats and deadlifts. what did i change? i added arm work. bber style. Most olers do zero arm work, and neither did i.
I could show you workout tapes (ironmind.com) of 77 kilo lifters with huge squats (vanev comes to mind), and pulls (and needless to say deadlifts) with arms that you would think they didn't even workout. imo, to grow arms it is good to build a strong upper body base of pulling and pressing compounds (like rows and presses) and also adjunct arms workout. aranda is another example. the guy squatted 300 kilos (660 lbs) at 165 lb bodyweight. his arms were nothing to write home about though. his workouts consisted to squats, pulls (basically an explosive deadlift) jerks, cleans, snatches, and the occasional push press.
just my opinion and my experience
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
Day 19
Sorry for lack of updates.
Good News, Bad news, overall good news.
USPS lost my order of M4OHN so I've missed the dose last thursday and friday. Not happy. Not happy at all about that.
But anyway, I had Oxanavar (by HM Gear) 5mg of M4OHN per capsule overnighted to me. I've up the dose to 20mg ED, split 10mg-10mg every 12 hours.
I've been eatting very clean and got my weight up to 206-211 again. And I'm definitly leaner than I was at this weight a week ago. Strength is back again. Set a PR on deadlift tonight, and had several strong sets of lat pulls, etc. afterward.
I will not be eatting below maintance. It is my opinion that I can put on lean mass and still lose fat - cleanly eatting above maintance. Supplementing with ALA helps I think as well.
Sorry for lack of updates.
Good News, Bad news, overall good news.
USPS lost my order of M4OHN so I've missed the dose last thursday and friday. Not happy. Not happy at all about that.
But anyway, I had Oxanavar (by HM Gear) 5mg of M4OHN per capsule overnighted to me. I've up the dose to 20mg ED, split 10mg-10mg every 12 hours.
I've been eatting very clean and got my weight up to 206-211 again. And I'm definitly leaner than I was at this weight a week ago. Strength is back again. Set a PR on deadlift tonight, and had several strong sets of lat pulls, etc. afterward.
I will not be eatting below maintance. It is my opinion that I can put on lean mass and still lose fat - cleanly eatting above maintance. Supplementing with ALA helps I think as well.
michaelton
Board Supporter
Don't mean to hijack your thread Deoudes.
I've upped my daily dose to 20 mg as well. I am running this as a cutter and am down seven lbs 2 weeks in. Probably cut cals too much BUT I have continued to increase poundage on almost all of my lifts.
Definitely agree with you on the ALA. I'm going to increase my cals a bit, look to end this thing maybe 4 lbs lighter and hopefully add a little lbm.
Anyhow thanks for your log Deoudes.
I've upped my daily dose to 20 mg as well. I am running this as a cutter and am down seven lbs 2 weeks in. Probably cut cals too much BUT I have continued to increase poundage on almost all of my lifts.
Definitely agree with you on the ALA. I'm going to increase my cals a bit, look to end this thing maybe 4 lbs lighter and hopefully add a little lbm.
Anyhow thanks for your log Deoudes.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
michaelton said:
Not a problem, how long is your cycle going for?
Definitily up the Calories, if your metabolism is anything like mine - you should be able to put on Lean Mass and Shed Body Fat concurrently.
michaelton
Board Supporter
I will evaluate at four weeks; may end up going six weeks before starting PCT.
lifted
Well-known member
Dudes...so do you have any (close to final) thoughts on the compound? Would you say it is worth buying or rather is it something to get excited about using?
I'm still torn on buying some.....for a dude that doesn't wanna run M1T anymore and would like to stock up on some legal PH/PS's for the ban, would you reccommend me doing this..?
Kinda putting you on the spot, I know...sorry but still haven't really heard of many others using it yet...
I'm still torn on buying some.....for a dude that doesn't wanna run M1T anymore and would like to stock up on some legal PH/PS's for the ban, would you reccommend me doing this..?
Kinda putting you on the spot, I know...sorry but still haven't really heard of many others using it yet...
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
Up to 20mg a day now, HM Gear.
This stuff is the sh_t.
This stuff is the sh_t.
vicmack777
Member
I dont want to call you out or anything but i just want to know why you are bumping up your dosage if you have been seeing results. I havent been seeing great results with mine and am kinda curious to whats going on with you. I would think that if you loved it at lower doses, that you would stay there. Feel free to correct me if im wrong.Deoudes59 said:
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
vicmack777 said:
Valid Question.
I actually wasn't loving it at 8mg - for cutting. I was losing too much weight. I have upped the calories and the dosage, no side effects, only positives thus far.
vicmack777
Member
I started at 5 mgs a day and now am at 20. Im just starting my 3rd week so im still not giving up on it yet. I am eating just a little over maintenance. I have a little more energy but still the most noticeable effect is having trouble sleeping.Jergo said:
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
Day 20
Strength is way up and Endurance is too. Did heavy weight on military press and moved onto Arnold Press with dumbells and got as high as 70s for reps. Definitly increasing strength guys.... Finished off the shoulder workout with dips for ~40. Did weighted Situps and Cardio after. Feel like I could go another hour or two....
Strength is way up and Endurance is too. Did heavy weight on military press and moved onto Arnold Press with dumbells and got as high as 70s for reps. Definitly increasing strength guys.... Finished off the shoulder workout with dips for ~40. Did weighted Situps and Cardio after. Feel like I could go another hour or two....
vicmack777
Member
What would everyone think about adding methyl D with this **** for the last two weeks?
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
I have a new finding that may shed a little light on HM Gear's M4OHN.
On Sledge's M4OHN, I had no hairloss at all (dosed: 6mg-10mg).
Now, on HM Gears' I'm have experienced a little shedding in the past couple days (@ 20mgs). Now It early to draw conclusions but, correct me if i'm wrong - there should be no DHT side effects whatsoever - regardless of the dose.
This tells me there might be something else other than M4ohn in Oxanavar.
I will be monitoring this closely. I suggest anyone who made the switch from Sledge's product to HMs to do the same. Or anyone who has been using Oxanavar.
It's early to draw a conclusion here, but its concerning nonetheless.
I am going to post this in a couple other threads.
On Sledge's M4OHN, I had no hairloss at all (dosed: 6mg-10mg).
Now, on HM Gears' I'm have experienced a little shedding in the past couple days (@ 20mgs). Now It early to draw conclusions but, correct me if i'm wrong - there should be no DHT side effects whatsoever - regardless of the dose.
This tells me there might be something else other than M4ohn in Oxanavar.
I will be monitoring this closely. I suggest anyone who made the switch from Sledge's product to HMs to do the same. Or anyone who has been using Oxanavar.
It's early to draw a conclusion here, but its concerning nonetheless.
I am going to post this in a couple other threads.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
vicmack777 said:
certainly an idea, I believe MD should produce similar (if not better) results than M4OHN. I'd say go one or the other. I'm using M4OHN because DHT shouldn't be a concern.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
Day 28
It's been 4 weeks and I've been decided to stop here. I'm going to continue with absolved into post-cycle and run Nolvadex.
Weight: started at 215-220 down to 205-210lbs
Strength: Just about all lifts are up. Most noticible - squats, deadlift.
Hair: I've increased the dose to 30mg (split in 3 doses of 10,10,10 - 8hours apart) for the past 3 days. During this period I noticed some shedding, slightly more than at 20mg. The 6-10mg range was the range at which no hair was shed. I took Propecia the entire time. And used Nizoral, Spiro, and Xandrox.
My Final Verdict: This compound was pretty good. It definitly takes about 9 or 10days to kick in (when started at a dose >10mg). So if you are cutting with this alone, I would reccomend a front loading period of at least a week. I didn't do this and lost about 11lbs in 13days. The rest of the cycle became somewhat of a lean bulk, trying (and eventually successfully) regaining the strength that I lost. I feel this could be a slightly above average product to bulk with.
You would need a high dose probably 20mg+, but you still might have hair issues (so why not just use a more androgenic compound?). Everyone responds differently - but hairloss wasn't half as bad at M1T.
I lost about 8-10lbs and upped my strength in the process (I can't say it was 10lbs of fat, I definitly lost some muscle size but still ultimately increased strength). Similar to Prolangtum mentioned before, you will see extreme vascularity in the shoulders.
The majority of fat loss was in my front abs, lower chest (problem area), and upper chest. The side abs (obliques), also a problem area did not shed too much fat. My waist size probably decreased .5 inch to an inch.
I lost a fair amount of size off my shoulders, but they became the most toned. Most of the spot fat loss was genetic, absolved did a decent job in helping with chest fat, but stomach fat still remains. I may opt for Lipoderm next go around.
I'll get pictures and bloodwork up soon as they become availible.
It's been 4 weeks and I've been decided to stop here. I'm going to continue with absolved into post-cycle and run Nolvadex.
Weight: started at 215-220 down to 205-210lbs
Strength: Just about all lifts are up. Most noticible - squats, deadlift.
Hair: I've increased the dose to 30mg (split in 3 doses of 10,10,10 - 8hours apart) for the past 3 days. During this period I noticed some shedding, slightly more than at 20mg. The 6-10mg range was the range at which no hair was shed. I took Propecia the entire time. And used Nizoral, Spiro, and Xandrox.
My Final Verdict: This compound was pretty good. It definitly takes about 9 or 10days to kick in (when started at a dose >10mg). So if you are cutting with this alone, I would reccomend a front loading period of at least a week. I didn't do this and lost about 11lbs in 13days. The rest of the cycle became somewhat of a lean bulk, trying (and eventually successfully) regaining the strength that I lost. I feel this could be a slightly above average product to bulk with.
You would need a high dose probably 20mg+, but you still might have hair issues (so why not just use a more androgenic compound?). Everyone responds differently - but hairloss wasn't half as bad at M1T.
I lost about 8-10lbs and upped my strength in the process (I can't say it was 10lbs of fat, I definitly lost some muscle size but still ultimately increased strength). Similar to Prolangtum mentioned before, you will see extreme vascularity in the shoulders.
The majority of fat loss was in my front abs, lower chest (problem area), and upper chest. The side abs (obliques), also a problem area did not shed too much fat. My waist size probably decreased .5 inch to an inch.
I lost a fair amount of size off my shoulders, but they became the most toned. Most of the spot fat loss was genetic, absolved did a decent job in helping with chest fat, but stomach fat still remains. I may opt for Lipoderm next go around.
I'll get pictures and bloodwork up soon as they become availible.
LittleMonster
Banned
Nice thread,man...for some reason I saw it just now.Good luck w/the rest of it.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
Everything is fine.
Hepatic Function Panel (7)
Protein, Total, Serum = 7.3 g/dL (6.0-8.5)
Albumin, Serum = 4.2 g/dL (3.5 - 5.5)
Bilirubin, Total = 0.4 mg/dL (0.1 - 1.2)
Bilirubin, Direct = 0.15 mg/dL (0.0 - 0.4)
Alkaline Phophatase, Serum = 76 IU/L (25-160)
AST (SGOT) = 19 IU/L (0-40)
ALT (SGPT) = 23 IU/L (0-40)
Lipid Panel with LDL/HDL ratio
Cholestrol, Total = 127 mg/dL (100-199)
Triglycerides = 137 mg/dL (0-149)
HDL Cholesterol = 41 mg/dL (40-59)
VLDL Cholestrol Cal = 27 mg/dL (5-40)
LDL Cholestrol Calc = 59 mg/dL (0-99)
LDL/HDL Ratio = 1.4 ratio units (0.0 - 3.6)
If you see anything out of the ordinary - let me know
Hepatic Function Panel (7)
Protein, Total, Serum = 7.3 g/dL (6.0-8.5)
Albumin, Serum = 4.2 g/dL (3.5 - 5.5)
Bilirubin, Total = 0.4 mg/dL (0.1 - 1.2)
Bilirubin, Direct = 0.15 mg/dL (0.0 - 0.4)
Alkaline Phophatase, Serum = 76 IU/L (25-160)
AST (SGOT) = 19 IU/L (0-40)
ALT (SGPT) = 23 IU/L (0-40)
Lipid Panel with LDL/HDL ratio
Cholestrol, Total = 127 mg/dL (100-199)
Triglycerides = 137 mg/dL (0-149)
HDL Cholesterol = 41 mg/dL (40-59)
VLDL Cholestrol Cal = 27 mg/dL (5-40)
LDL Cholestrol Calc = 59 mg/dL (0-99)
LDL/HDL Ratio = 1.4 ratio units (0.0 - 3.6)
If you see anything out of the ordinary - let me know