Low T but doctor says it’s fine

Ayers16

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Had my T checked and on a results scale the “green” zone is 264-916 I’m at 279.2 but the doctor says my levels are fine. I’ve been low on energy for months now and I suspect the doctor may be downplaying this because I’m only 34. Curious what other people’s experiences were with this. Do you think my levels are low and that’s why I’ve had energy/desire to do nothing for months?
 
GreenMachineX

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My levels were that low for years and had the same issue. When my levels finally dropped right below the range, doctors finally listened but I didn't feel any worse than I already did. What's your free T though?
 

Ayers16

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I didn’t see anything on the test that said free t just testosterone total
 

Ayers16

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Did you start replacement therapy at that point? I’m wondering if maybe the doctor he’s looking at that as a last resort. I don’t want to be committed to trt the rest of my life if I don’t have to but I suspect it’s an issue with how low my numbers were and I know how different I’ve felt lately, The fact that those numbers were low suggest there’s an issue, in my mind
 
barische

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diet, sleep, stress? micronutrient levels (vitD, magnesium, selenium , Vitk2, sat fat, zinc, copper, Vit E, A), body fat %. fix those.

get on standardized eurycomanone % tongkat ali and CEL M-test.
 
BCseacow83

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I love how a test level of 263 means you in need of treatment and 264 your supposedly fine. I had an instructor at one clinical site, RT, that drilled into us you treat PEOPLE/PATIENTS not NUMBERS.

IMO, take it for what it's worth, when people are borderline their symptoms should be given more consideration than 1-2 points either way and a scale that has been slowly changing anyways. If your total test is 768 with free T in the middle range then no matter what your symptoms are they are NOT likely to be T-related. But if you are 3 points above the bottom of the scale they ABSOLUTELY should be heavily weighted IMO.

FIRE HIS/HER ASS and find a doctor who actually listens to you. They work FOR YOU and it's bad enough we need our little permission slips from them to put things in OUR bodies without having to deal with their thickheadedness.(not an attack on all doctors as I know there are many great ones and I worked with many of them but you get frustrated when some seem so hesitant to script a little bit of hormone but throw SSRI's and other meds out like parade candy.)

If you can afford it, and the price is much cheaper these days due to the competition, you will more than likely have success with a telemedicine HRT clinic.
 
GreenMachineX

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Did you start replacement therapy at that point? I’m wondering if maybe the doctor he’s looking at that as a last resort. I don’t want to be committed to trt the rest of my life if I don’t have to but I suspect it’s an issue with how low my numbers were and I know how different I’ve felt lately, The fact that those numbers were low suggest there’s an issue, in my mind
Yes, I've been on TRT for about 5 years. Started at 100mg once per week which was OK, but doctor didn't like my hct hanging out at 51. Later tried twice per week at varying doses with a different doctor which also kept my hct too high but also have more bizarre side effects. The past 6 months I've been trying between 20-23mg EOD which has felt the best. I've struggled with HCT and other side effects though, so I've debated a natural restart consisting of clomid, but haven't quite done it. I'm also trying to get my DHEA in line which was also low. My blood pressure has been borderline high since I was 20, and I've recently noticed that dhea brings it down. If all this experimentation fails, then I'll likely attempt the restart. I'm 37 now, and I just don't know if having my hct in the 50's when I'm 50 and older is a good idea. Hopefully more data comes out in the next 5-10 years to make a more informed decision on that.
 

Ayers16

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I appreciate the weigh ins gents. I agree they should treat patients not numbers and I’m looking at different docs but with all the “sick” people (mentally and physically from Covid they say) it’s difficult to get an appointment. I’ve done a couple cycles of andros and even took the PCT but I fear the company I used has nothing good about it except marketing skills.. I’m starting to wonder if this is a result of my natural T not kicking back on. Starting to wonder if I can correct this with the clomid, someone else suggested clomid to me before and I didn’t think that heavily on it.. hmm.
 

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Did you start replacement therapy at that point? I’m wondering if maybe the doctor he’s looking at that as a last resort. I don’t want to be committed to trt the rest of my life if I don’t have to but I suspect it’s an issue with how low my numbers were and I know how different I’ve felt lately, The fact that those numbers were low suggest there’s an issue, in my mind
If your Dr only tested total T, then he is not well versed in hormone replacement therapy. Here’s my advice. Look at diet, lifestyle, meds, stress, and anything else that can impact test levels. Also find another Dr to look into this. An integrative medicine Dr will be a good start. Try everything you can to up your natural levels before you commit to TRT. I’ve been on TRT for almost 9 years and wouldn’t give it up for nothing but I do regret not trying to increase my natural production before starting TRT.
 
banjobounce

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Had my T checked and on a results scale the “green” zone is 264-916 I’m at 279.2 but the doctor says my levels are fine. I’ve been low on energy for months now and I suspect the doctor may be downplaying this because I’m only 34. Curious what other people’s experiences were with this. Do you think my levels are low and that’s why I’ve had energy/desire to do nothing for months?
same issue when I was 27. I would look at sleep and lifestyle first and find a different doc in the meantime.
 
GreenMachineX

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I appreciate the weigh ins gents. I agree they should treat patients not numbers and I’m looking at different docs but with all the “sick” people (mentally and physically from Covid they say) it’s difficult to get an appointment. I’ve done a couple cycles of andros and even took the PCT but I fear the company I used has nothing good about it except marketing skills.. I’m starting to wonder if this is a result of my natural T not kicking back on. Starting to wonder if I can correct this with the clomid, someone else suggested clomid to me before and I didn’t think that heavily on it.. hmm.
Clomid definitely works to bring natural levels up, but free testosterone is a mandatory test as well.
 
Smont

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Had my T checked and on a results scale the “green” zone is 264-916 I’m at 279.2 but the doctor says my levels are fine. I’ve been low on energy for months now and I suspect the doctor may be downplaying this because I’m only 34. Curious what other people’s experiences were with this. Do you think my levels are low and that’s why I’ve had energy/desire to do nothing for months?
That's extremely low unless you're a 75 year old man. I'm assuming you went to a regular doctor and not an endo and if I were you I'd get referred to an endo because regular Doctors Don't know Jack when it comes to hormone replacement therapy
 
Smont

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To put into perspective for you, my uncle just tried to get on trt through his regular doctor and he tested his levels and they came back in the high 400s which is kind of low and the doc said no and it's understandable. But keep in mind my uncle is 58 years old. He's still going to see a Endo because sometimes an endo will treat the symptoms even if you are in range, especially if you're over 40.

If you're under 40 and your test levels are in the 200s and your doctor said you're fine he's a moron
 
Smont

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I appreciate the weigh ins gents. I agree they should treat patients not numbers and I’m looking at different docs but with all the “sick” people (mentally and physically from Covid they say) it’s difficult to get an appointment. I’ve done a couple cycles of andros and even took the PCT but I fear the company I used has nothing good about it except marketing skills.. I’m starting to wonder if this is a result of my natural T not kicking back on. Starting to wonder if I can correct this with the clomid, someone else suggested clomid to me before and I didn’t think that heavily on it.. hmm.
First they should try to fix your numbers without drugs. If they can get you mid-range or higher and the symptoms go away you're good to go. If they can't naturally raise your levels they should be looking into putting you on hormone replacement therapy.

When I say fix I mean actually fix not a Band-Aid. My buddy had low t and the doctor said he was fine and tried to "treat" his symptoms with a prescription for Viagra. That's a Band-Aid it's not fixing anything
 

Ayers16

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Yea I’m going to see if I can get a referral to the Endo, thinking back the doctors idea was that I had sleep apnea and anxiety even though I didn’t mention anything about either. I specifically asked for the testosterone check because I suspected that could be it after researching a while and he’s taking it the wrong direction for sure. Here’s the doctors note on my chart post results.
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Smont

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Yea I’m going to see if I can get a referral to the Endo, thinking back the doctors idea was that I had sleep apnea and anxiety even though I didn’t mention anything about either. I specifically asked for the testosterone check because I suspected that could be it after researching a while and he’s taking it the wrong direction for sure. Here’s the doctors note on my chart post results. View attachment 208263View attachment 208264
Just by the note he left on the bloodwork alone I would be seeking out a different Dr.

This looks like someone who specifically treats patients with textbook solutions and does not have their best interest in mind. Your literally teetering on the edge with the test levels of a old man.

It's nonsense
 

Ayers16

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And to respond about the diet abs sleep I eat 5 meals a day typically chicken and rice/quinoa or potatoes and greens and white meat. I don’t track macros but I definitely don’t eat junk, I lift 5 days a week cardio upped to a couple days a week, drink a gallon of water and sleep from 10pm-3:30am I suppose the sleep could use an adjustment but no reason why I’ve been so burned out that’s a red flag to me besides the t
 
Smont

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And to respond about the diet abs sleep I eat 5 meals a day typically chicken and rice/quinoa or potatoes and greens and white meat. I don’t track macros but I definitely don’t eat junk, I lift 5 days a week cardio upped to a couple days a week, drink a gallon of water and sleep from 10pm-3:30am I suppose the sleep could use an adjustment but no reason why I’ve been so burned out that’s a red flag to me besides the t
Your diet looks super low in fat, healthy fats and cholesterol play a big role in hormone production. I would look to add a little bit of fatty fish or red meat, avacado, olive oil ect. I'm not saying go over the top and eat a ton of that stuff but I believe you need something like 80 g of fat a day just for proper hormone production
 
Smont

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I'm also curious did he only test your total testosterone or did he check estrogen and free testosterone as well, because estrogen and your free test plays a really big role in how you feel, there arguably more important then your total testosterone. For example you could have total testosterone in the 900s and if you're estrogen is really low or high or you're free testosterone is in the gutter you could still feel like crap or have no sex drive
 
Smont

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I’m looking now what would those test results be called? Would it be very obvious?
Free test would probably just say free test or free t, then for estrogen there could be estrone,
Estradiol, it might say e2 sensitive. There could be a few
 
The Solution

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I had sleep apnea and anxiety even though I didn’t mention anything about either.
Anxiety is a great way to help lower testosterone if you are stressed out causing cortisol to rise.
Diet looks very low in fat, Fat is essential for hormonal production and testosterone levels.
Sleep on the low end is yet another reason why the test could be below.

People are quick to jump on TRT and not fix their lifestyle which is the underlying issue
Stress/Anxiety
Lack of sleep
lack of fat intake
You could also cut back on training and cardio to help lower stress/cortisol and also improve testosterone levels.
The correct advice is here, but people just want to look at the opposite direction, supplements, or other replacements to diet and training which are the main reason why T may have tanked in the first place.

100% Agree on getting SHBG, Free test, and Estradiol tested, but honestly, the issue lies within your day-to-day decision making. I would drop carbs a bit in favor of adding more dietary fat (getting 25-30% of intake from fat) MCT/EVOO, Avacado's, Nut butters, whole eggs
Aim to get 6-7 hours of sleep daily
Aim to focus on stress management, lowering cortisol, and cutting back to 4x a week of training, and dropping cardio a touch.
Just doing these small things would put test above 300+ and get it higher into a healthier range.
 
BCseacow83

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To be fair the number of obese middle-aged men who eat like **** and perform zero exercises who must show up every week inquiring about Low T must be higher than ever. So many people lack the ability to be honest with themselves(myself included) and are always looking for a quick EASY fix and I think many GP's are probably sick of this happening but that should not interfere with them treating a true need. You can bet your ass if his levels were that low and he had symptoms he would do something about it. If your cholesterol levels were borderline I doubt you would have had to fight him for a statin. My wife inquired about bio-identical hrt as she has some health issues and is changing very early and they offered her an SSRI. She doesn't have a fucking Prozac deficiency you quack. We are firing her doctor too.

I had sub 100ng/dl on multiple tests and my GP said I was just too young, was 26 at the time. Would you tell me I'm too young for insulin if I needed it? Thyroid? Of course not. I fired her too.


I do agree that all steps should be attempted to avoid needing medication for the rest of your life if at all possible. Five hours of sleep is simply too little for the majority of us. Get the sleep study if they will send you for one it could save your life even if you think you are fine.
 
Rad83

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I would leave that doc. just based on the “cut of his jib”

Try and have those files “misplaced” too!

(Reminds me of that Seinfeld episode…)
 
Rad83

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…you’re the guy that ran that low dose of 1 andro….It could have been enough to suppress you but certainly not enough for real results….Did you run a serm after that?

Edit: I see it was 130mg 1 andro, for 8 weeks, no serm just the steel otc crap….I think that’s why you’re at where yo at…

Run a serm at a proper dose for 4 weeks…
 
Iwilleattuna

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Let’s be real here. If someone lives a generally healthy lifestyle and doesn’t do anything on the extreme, testosterone should rarely be affected by sleep, anxiety, etc, to the point of having the levels of an old man. Just look out how high levels were back in the day. Doubt those guys focused much on healthy lifestyle, well, out of all of those men. Test is declining from our environment and the toxic chemicals were fed to on a daily, but yet the numbers on the blood test range are being lowered more and more. Sad actually
 

Ayers16

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…you’re the guy that ran that low dose of 1 andro….It could have been enough to suppress you but certainly not enough for real results….Did you run a serm after that?

Edit: I see it was 130mg 1 andro, for 8 weeks, no serm just the steel otc crap….I think that’s why you’re at where yo at…

Run a serm at a proper dose for 4 weeks…
Yes, that’s me. I just ran the PCT they recommended on their website, Alpha-AF. Check the label below. Yea I thought I did good research first but I should have thought twice when I couldn’t find actual people who shared their experiences. Cruising back now everything I had saved from my so called “research” has the same written structure much like they were duplicates or some sh*t. The thought crossed my mind also that what I put in my body did more harm than good, Ive been dealing with depression HARD. And not from Covid stuff like people are talking about, like it’s been an issue for years and just recently I’ve gotten to a pretty bad place. Guess that’s where I ended up making the decision to take that Steel garbage, a “quick fix” in my mind to see results and feel good again. The gym makes me feel alive, it’s one of the only things that can put my mind in a good place, but I haven’t seen the results I should from the effort Ive been putting in (even just over the last year) that’s also partly why I suspected the low t and requested the doctor test it, along with the low energy of coarse.
 
banjobounce

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I had sleep apnea and anxiety even though I didn’t mention anything about either.
Anxiety is a great way to help lower testosterone if you are stressed out causing cortisol to rise.
Diet looks very low in fat, Fat is essential for hormonal production and testosterone levels.
Sleep on the low end is yet another reason why the test could be below.

People are quick to jump on TRT and not fix their lifestyle which is the underlying issue
Stress/Anxiety
Lack of sleep
lack of fat intake
You could also cut back on training and cardio to help lower stress/cortisol and also improve testosterone levels.
The correct advice is here, but people just want to look at the opposite direction, supplements, or other replacements to diet and training which are the main reason why T may have tanked in the first place.

100% Agree on getting SHBG, Free test, and Estradiol tested, but honestly, the issue lies within your day-to-day decision making. I would drop carbs a bit in favor of adding more dietary fat (getting 25-30% of intake from fat) MCT/EVOO, Avacado's, Nut butters, whole eggs
Aim to get 6-7 hours of sleep daily
Aim to focus on stress management, lowering cortisol, and cutting back to 4x a week of training, and dropping cardio a touch.
Just doing these small things would put test above 300+ and get it higher into a healthier range.
Apnea is most likely what was doing it for me. That crap is no joke. Getting a CPAP was the single most life-changing intervention that I have ever had.
 

Ayers16

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Yes, that’s me. I just ran the PCT they recommended on their website, Alpha-AF. Check the label below. Yea I thought I did good research first but I should have thought twice when I couldn’t find actual people who shared their experiences. Cruising back now everything I had saved from my so called “research” has the same written structure much like they were duplicates or some sh*t. The thought crossed my mind also that what I put in my body did more harm than good, Ive been dealing with depression HARD. And not from Covid stuff like people are talking about, like it’s been an issue for years and just recently I’ve gotten to a pretty bad place. Guess that’s where I ended up making the decision to take that Steel garbage, a “quick fix” in my mind to see results and feel good again. The gym makes me feel alive, it’s one of the only things that can put my mind in a good place, but I haven’t seen the results I should from the effort Ive been putting in (even just over the last year) that’s also partly why I suspected the low t and requested the doctor test it, along with the low energy of coarse.
Another discussion I had on here with a gentleman lead me to snatch up some Iconic icon one and run it with dermacrine. Once I suggested the low T symptoms I’d been experiencing and the test results he suggested to Finnish up that cycle with a couple months of clomid to reboot the system. Thoughts on this? Should I hold off on the icon one until I can figure out these more pressing issue? I don’t want to throw in more anomalies into the mix, I’d rather get the t back to a good place and forget about the other stuff I bought then take it and make things worse.

And to acknowledge firing the doctor, I’ve contacted the clinic, told them I HEAVILY disagree with the doctors determination that the level were “normal” and requested a re-evaluation by a different doctor. If doctor #2 is also an overly educated f*ck with no people skills who comes to the same conclusion I have requested a referral to the endo.

I appreciate the help mates, nothing puts me more at ease thinking I made a huge mistake than having people who know what they’re talking about and willing to share experiences and advice with me. It’s only a mistake if you don’t learn from it right?

I agree this is likely something brought on by my poor choices.
 

Ayers16

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Yes, that’s me. I just ran the PCT they recommended on their website, Alpha-AF. Check the label below. Yea I thought I did good research first but I should have thought twice when I couldn’t find actual people who shared their experiences. Cruising back now everything I had saved from my so called “research” has the same written structure much like they were duplicates or some sh*t. The thought crossed my mind also that what I put in my body did more harm than good, Ive been dealing with depression HARD. And not from Covid stuff like people are talking about, like it’s been an issue for years and just recently I’ve gotten to a pretty bad place. Guess that’s where I ended up making the decision to take that Steel garbage, a “quick fix” in my mind to see results and feel good again. The gym makes me feel alive, it’s one of the only things that can put my mind in a good place, but I haven’t seen the results I should from the effort Ive been putting in (even just over the last year) that’s also partly why I suspected the low t and requested the doctor test it, along with the low energy of coarse.
IMG_5228.JPG
 
BCseacow83

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Let’s be real here. If someone lives a generally healthy lifestyle and doesn’t do anything on the extreme, testosterone should rarely be affected by sleep, anxiety, etc, to the point of having the levels of an old man. Just look out how high levels were back in the day. Doubt those guys focused much on healthy lifestyle, well, out of all of those men. Test is declining from our environment and the toxic chemicals were fed to on a daily, but yet the numbers on the blood test range are being lowered more and more. Sad actually
That is because the range is determined based on a general sample of men from a young age to an older age(i don't know the exact ages) so of course the damn thing keeps getting lowered!

Can you imagine if they determined blood pressure or blood sugar ranges using the same system???? We would have normal BG of 150+ and blood pressure of 150/90 lol.
 
Iwilleattuna

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That is because the range is determined based on a general sample of men from a young age to an older age(i don't know the exact ages) so of course the damn thing keeps getting lowered!

Can you imagine if they determined blood pressure or blood sugar ranges using the same system???? We would have normal BG of 150+ and blood pressure of 150/90 lol.
In the coming years ...

“Hey doc, I feel terrible and think I’m suffering hypogonadism”

Doc- “ let’s run some labs”

“How are my levels?”

Doc - well sir, you tested at 10ng per dec and this falls in range of 0-100. Maybe you could try changing your diet . I’d like to put you on an antidepressant instead”
 
Rad83

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Yeah I understand what you did and why you attempted the cycle.

Again, in my opinion, you ran a suppressive compound for 8 weeks. While it wasn’t enough to make significant gains, I’m betting it knocked you down a few hundred points.

How long ago was the cycle? I don’t think you have a pre cycle test level/blood work do you?

….Could some people bounce back ‘decently’ without serms? Yeah, but not all, and it’s not worth the risk…That’s why we always suggest a serm. …Some people do everything perfect & still end up having to go on TRT.

I guess at this point,…check out this 2nd opinion/doc that you mentioned 🤷‍♂️
 

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Thanks for the added input. No I do not have pre cycle test results though I wish I would have gotten them. The cycle was March-April 8 weeks followed by the “PCT” for 4 weeks. Yea I guess that makes sense because I really started noticing the low energy around June/July
 
Rad83

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Thanks for the added input. No I do not have pre cycle test results though I wish I would have gotten them. The cycle was March-April 8 weeks followed by the “PCT” for 4 weeks. Yea I guess that makes sense because I really started noticing the low energy around June/July
Yeah man…can’t say for certain, if that’s what did it…I just think it might be part of the equation. …The pct had dhea in it, not something you really want if you’re already suppressed…But again, see what this 2nd doc you said you’re gonna see, says

I would do everything in my power, to avoid TRT…but that’s just me…Good luck!
 
KvanH

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That Steel stuff is no pct, so you never did one. Actually looks more detrimental, than beneficial for hormonal recovery.

Like said you'd be wise to add in more fat in your diet.

5.5 h of sleep is not enough, especially when you're working out that much. Majority need 7-9 h (easier said than done though for many).

You could try a little break or working out less for awhile.

I'd probably try a serm for 4-6 weeks myself in your situation, since you never did any pct. It's never too late to give it a go and I don't see the harm in trying how it works, does your balls respond to the elevated LH and where your levels settle after discontinuation. Of course not when you're going to the doc to take more bloods, it would screw up the results and examination.

E2, shbg, free T, LH and FSH would be of interest too.
 
Smont

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It's a bunch of random crap and all of it is dosed between 1/4th and 1/10th of the effective doses. Like they took a little bit of everything they had kicking around and bottled it up
 
Rad83

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It's a bunch of random crap and all of it is dosed between 1/4th and 1/10th of the effective doses. Like they took a little bit of everything they had kicking around and bottled it up
…could you imagine if their actual 1-andro cycle was actually dosed properly?
 

Ayers16

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What serm would you recommend? Should I hold off on taking this icon one I picked up?
 
KvanH

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What serm would you recommend? Should I hold off on taking this icon one I picked up?
Enclomiphene if you can find it, otherwise Clomiphene.

I would see this T level issue through before taking any anabolics, if it was me.
 

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Anyone got Input for clomid where to buy and maybe a testimonial or two? Thanks
 
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Check out the board sponsors; MA research chems, Premierre research essentials, Supreme Labs, Pure Rawz.
 

Ayers16

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Ok I’m continuing this thread hoping you guys who’ve been much help could give some further helpful input. Started my 3rd week of clomid today at 25mg/day. No negative sides except maybe 1 day of nasea due to taking it without food I suspect.

Considering now if I should be preparing to take an AI after finishing up my 4 weeks of clomid or if y’all don’t think it’s needed.

I really messed up buying from this “dog sh*t” company. I just want to get my levels/body back to normal. But I want to do it right.

Thank you!
 

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