Low Dose test vs SARM cycle

maximillia

maximillia

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My stats:
6'3
188.4 lbs
13% bf

Hey guys, I am planning a 16 week cycle, of either low dose test (250mg/week), or trt dose test with Sarms(150mg/week), specifically, RAD140 -20 Mg per day. My goal is to gain 5-10 lbs of muscle. Which do you think would be better? Please advice.

Furthermore, If I go test alone and do 250 mg/week, Should I use some finasteride per day to make it more hair safe? I would like to, just as a precaution. My family doesn't have a history of MPB, but I still want to take care. Is this something you would advice or be against?

And regardless of which route I go, I am planning to administer the test subcutaneously, with an insulin syringe. I have seen that being done successfully on youtube. Is this fine? Even though the vials I will be getting have "For IM use only" printed on them....
 
BarryScott

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Not worth shutting yourself down for a over third of the year for just 250mg a week, in my opinion. I'd up the dose or stack it with something.

Finasteride isn't something to take lightly, lot of horror stories.
 
maximillia

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Not worth shutting yourself down for a over third of the year for just 250mg a week, in my opinion. I'd up the dose or stack it with something.

Finasteride isn't something to take lightly, lot of horror stories.
Okay. and subcutaneous administration is fine? What should I stack it with? Deca?
 
BarryScott

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It don't think injecting that amount of oil subq is a very sensible idea. What to stack with depends on your experience, risk aversion, preferences, etc.
 

timberx

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I didnt get any side effects from oral finadteride myself, but I will be switching to a product that contains TOPICAL finasteride, minox, azelaic acid snd retinoid for my M-Sten cycle. People get good results from this combo with less sides than oral finasteride.
 
maximillia

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It don't think injecting that amount of oil subq is a very sensible idea. What to stack with depends on your experience, risk aversion, preferences, etc.
If I inject 250mg a week, I can do around 70 mg, thrice a week. Isn't that fine for subcutaneous?
 
maximillia

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I didnt get any side effects from oral finadteride myself, but I will be switching to a product that contains TOPICAL finasteride, minox, azelaic acid snd retinoid for my M-Sten cycle. People get good results from this combo with less sides than oral finasteride.
And it works equally as well as oral fina? That sounds like a good product.
 
Project223

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I didnt get any side effects from oral finadteride myself, but I will be switching to a product that contains TOPICAL finasteride, minox, azelaic acid snd retinoid for my M-Sten cycle. People get good results from this combo with less sides than oral finasteride.
Where might one acquire such a product? Online trt clinic I’m guessing?
 

timberx

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And it works equally as well as oral fina? That sounds like a good product.
Here are some studies, scroll down, I posted links to research and case studies:


Where might one acquire such a product? Online trt clinic I’m guessing?
I will be buying mine from:


I have not tried them myself, but they have good rep on hairloss forums.

Mods, plz dont ban me if links are not allowed.
 
maximillia

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I'd just inject once a week IM personally.
I am contemplating multiple shots for more stable blood serum levels, and also because I am thinking of going with Propionate, as that will allow me to PCT right after the cycle is over. That's the angle.
 
TheBigJS

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I've been fine in the past with 1ml sub q but others have struggle. But twice per week with 0.5ml is better so do that.
Sub q is utterly painless so it's not a problem.

You're overthinking it if you're thinking prop and a shorter gap to PCT will make any difference. During that fortnight or whatever after your last injection waiting to start PCT you still have test in your system so you're not gaining anything by using prop.
I was NHS blood tested a while back while cruising on just 125mg p/w test and 10 days post last injection I was still over 500ng/dl (which kind of proves even just 125mg p/w is more than TRT).

As to TRT & 20mg RAD140 or 250mg p/w test you'll see more gains from the RAD.
Whether you keep the gains will depend on how fast you get your test levels back and if you really keep the levels up or if it's just the PCT drugs keeping them up for now which I have suggested before happens more than people think.
 
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maximillia

maximillia

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I've been fine in the past with 1ml sub q but others have struggle. But twice per week with 0.5ml is better so do that.
Sub q is utterly painless so it's not a problem.

You're overthinking it if you're thinking prop and a shorter gap to PCT will make any difference. During that fortnight or whatever after your last injection waiting to start PCT you still have test in your system so you're not gaining anything by using prop.
I was NHS blood tested a while back while cruising on just 125mg p/w test and 10 days post last injection I was still over 500ng/dl (which kind of proves even just 125mg p/w is more than TRT).

As to TRT & 20mg RAD140 or 250mg p/w test you'll see more gains from the RAD.
Whether you keep the gains will depend on how fast you get your test levels back and if you really keep the levels up or if it's just the PCT drugs keeping them up for now which I have suggested before happens more than people think.
Thanks. That's what I wanted to hear. I will go SubQ. It just seems easier.

Which Ester was that exactly, when you had more than 500ng/dl after 10 days?

I am tending more towards trt test with Rad 140. I will use HCG on cycle to keep the boys working and to PCT faster.
 
YoungThor

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I gained 7 pounds and looked leaner at the end of my transdermal testosterone cycle. I used 60-120mg a day for 12 weeks. My main workouts were body weight exercises and construction labor. So with that being said, I do believe you’ll see good results injecting 250mg of test a week for 16 weeks. I know some of the more hardcore guys on here might see your cycle plan as a waste of time but if the testosterone is legit, I think you will very easily hit your goal of 5-10 pounds of muscle in 16 weeks. Good luck.
 
~Vision~

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Using 250mg is totally doable, if done RIGHT.. You're basically shutting yourself down just about replacing it on the HIGHER end of the scale with what would be TRT. What you could do is hijack your Exogenous testosterone, getting the best out of it while it suppresses intratesticular testosterone production.. Where am I going with this?

Below is some blood work of mine from Sept, it was when I come off and cruised on my TRT script, however I wanted to get the most out of my "T". By "successfully" attempting to lower my SHBG levels - freeing up my test and lowering Estrogen E2.. Pay no mind to the highlighted RED E1 levels, that is because I was fasted, that has nothing to do with my circulating E2 levels..

I would add masteron to the low-moderate dose of to to achieve this.. You can keep things simple and within a narrow spectrum at the some time hacking your T levels making them more optimal with sarms, working with a synergistic effect!

READ ON:

Here's my recent bloods on 200mg Pharma script Test Cyp WITH MAST AND PROVIRON!

I blast & cruise all year long, more blasting than cruising with switch hitting.. I had blood work that was expected to be pulled from my Doc, he actually forgot and I had to remind him, it worked out well because I wanted to come off for a bit and do a little small cruise (6 weeks'ish) and give my CNS a moment to recoup as well as giving my REC's a brake..

I figured this would also be a great opportunity to take advantage of Masteron and Proviron used in conjunction with my TRT.. For the following reasons to keep libido strong, depression at a low at the same time optimizing the most out of my TRT dosage..

The addition with Proviron & Masteron is that it's a useful tool for the TRT user and specifically for those that cruise on low "T" doses who wish to inhibit the conversion of T to estrogen. By inhibiting the aromatase enzyme, Masteron would be in effect blocking the conversion of free testosterone to estrogen by the aromatisation pathway Yielding great levels of Free usable test. This would not only serve to marginally increase the amounts of active free testosterone in circulation (thus giving a greater effect of the testosterone during a TRT treatment or cruise).. With this said, I was just using 200mgs Script test-cyp E7D (with script adex .5 E3D) and Masteron-200 E7D and proviron at 50mg ED this ultimately created a match made in heaven, a complimentary duo!

Bloods were pulled 3 days after last pin and I was fasted and the panel was a sensitive essay (I wanted to see if my BS levels would effect estrogen total serum by way of estrone elevation due to fasting).. I have BS issues along with a family history of diabetes, the serum levels were extremely high and I doubt there was cross-reactivity of anything else due to the fact that E2 was low.. Being in a fasted state seems to be the culprit..

Further more, people tend to put blood serum numbers in a standard range of expectancy.. I've always advocated that I'm a slow/low metabolizer, even at 200mg which is the high end of TRT treatment and I barely scraped the high end.. It proves that this truly is NOT a one size fits all..

My closing comments : Libido was great, appetite was strong and I have no complaints, my sense of well-being was on point..The extreme low SHBG levels IMO are directly associated with the mast/prov, thus the result of low estro and higher free T..This can explain why I continued to feel great even after lowering my T dosage significantly..

I will continually use Mast and/or Proviron with every cruise I do!

Outstanding products...


There's an Easter egg here that's hidden inside of all of this, it's something I don't want people to miss.

This goes to prove that you really don't need much test.. I laughed when I see guys chasing a total serum number, they are expecting numbers in or around the 3k + range and they believe that this is where you need to be in order to make the most progress.. I will say this again, stop chasing total serums and focus on free test levels.. people can have 3000 of bound test and that doesn't mean anything, in fact that testosterone is useless..

People should incorporate compounds that are complementary with freeing up bound testosterone into more bioavailable testosterone..

The moral of my point, is free up your test levels and let all of the other compounds be the workhorse..

Know how to optimize your testosterone levels so they can work best for you.. it's not quantity but rather qualities..
I would rather have several hundred work horses, compared to 3000 useless horses..
 
maximillia

maximillia

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Using 250mg is totally doable, if done RIGHT.. You're basically shutting yourself down just about replacing it on the HIGHER end of the scale with what would be TRT. What you could do is hijack your Exogenous testosterone, getting the best out of it while it suppresses intratesticular testosterone production.. Where am I going with this?

Below is some blood work of mine from Sept, it was when I come off and cruised on my TRT script, however I wanted to get the most out of my "T". By "successfully" attempting to lower my SHBG levels - freeing up my test and lowering Estrogen E2.. Pay no mind to the highlighted RED E1 levels, that is because I was fasted, that has nothing to do with my circulating E2 levels..

I would add masteron to the low-moderate dose of to to achieve this.. You can keep things simple and within a narrow spectrum at the some time hacking your T levels making them more optimal with sarms, working with a synergistic effect!

READ ON:

Here's my recent bloods on 200mg Pharma script Test Cyp WITH MAST AND PROVIRON!

I blast & cruise all year long, more blasting than cruising with switch hitting.. I had blood work that was expected to be pulled from my Doc, he actually forgot and I had to remind him, it worked out well because I wanted to come off for a bit and do a little small cruise (6 weeks'ish) and give my CNS a moment to recoup as well as giving my REC's a brake..

I figured this would also be a great opportunity to take advantage of Masteron and Proviron used in conjunction with my TRT.. For the following reasons to keep libido strong, depression at a low at the same time optimizing the most out of my TRT dosage..

The addition with Proviron & Masteron is that it's a useful tool for the TRT user and specifically for those that cruise on low "T" doses who wish to inhibit the conversion of T to estrogen. By inhibiting the aromatase enzyme, Masteron would be in effect blocking the conversion of free testosterone to estrogen by the aromatisation pathway Yielding great levels of Free usable test. This would not only serve to marginally increase the amounts of active free testosterone in circulation (thus giving a greater effect of the testosterone during a TRT treatment or cruise).. With this said, I was just using 200mgs Script test-cyp E7D (with script adex .5 E3D) and Masteron-200 E7D and proviron at 50mg ED this ultimately created a match made in heaven, a complimentary duo!

Bloods were pulled 3 days after last pin and I was fasted and the panel was a sensitive essay (I wanted to see if my BS levels would effect estrogen total serum by way of estrone elevation due to fasting).. I have BS issues along with a family history of diabetes, the serum levels were extremely high and I doubt there was cross-reactivity of anything else due to the fact that E2 was low.. Being in a fasted state seems to be the culprit..

Further more, people tend to put blood serum numbers in a standard range of expectancy.. I've always advocated that I'm a slow/low metabolizer, even at 200mg which is the high end of TRT treatment and I barely scraped the high end.. It proves that this truly is NOT a one size fits all..

My closing comments : Libido was great, appetite was strong and I have no complaints, my sense of well-being was on point..The extreme low SHBG levels IMO are directly associated with the mast/prov, thus the result of low estro and higher free T..This can explain why I continued to feel great even after lowering my T dosage significantly..

I will continually use Mast and/or Proviron with every cruise I do!

Outstanding products...


There's an Easter egg here that's hidden inside of all of this, it's something I don't want people to miss.

This goes to prove that you really don't need much test.. I laughed when I see guys chasing a total serum number, they are expecting numbers in or around the 3k + range and they believe that this is where you need to be in order to make the most progress.. I will say this again, stop chasing total serums and focus on free test levels.. people can have 3000 of bound test and that doesn't mean anything, in fact that testosterone is useless..

People should incorporate compounds that are complementary with freeing up bound testosterone into more bioavailable testosterone..

The moral of my point, is free up your test levels and let all of the other compounds be the workhorse..

Know how to optimize your testosterone levels so they can work best for you.. it's not quantity but rather qualities..
I would rather have several hundred work horses, compared to 3000 useless horses..
I really like what you are saying here. I know about this use-case of proviron and Mast, but wasn't considering it with this cycle. Now, I will have to look it over. Can masteron be administered subq? I am a bit concerned about the androgenic effects of mast. Hair safety is very important to me, and I am not prone so far as I know, but the possibility is there.

Also, I think I will go with 250mg/week of test, with 20mg of Rad140. I don't see the harm in doing so, it seems perfectly fine. For my scenario it really seems a bit overkill, but that's okay. I really appreciate the input of everybody in this thread.

Please help me decide whether I should go with Test cypionate or propionate. With the former I can have an injecting frequency of twice a week,and with the latter, 3-4 times a week, subq. Which would be best? I can't decide which to pick.
 
maximillia

maximillia

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Hey guys, I really need the advice of those who have experience with injecting test. For subcutaneous administration, which site do you recommend and which gauge and length needle should I use to do so? Online, I see people using everything from 27 gauge to 30 gauge and It's just confusing.
 

CroLifter

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I think this is the best way to go, @maximillia, stacking a SARM with a test base and some hcg to keep natty production going.

I am interested, why rad 140, instead of ostarine or lgd 4033 which have been studied on humans?
 

UNX

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The only issue I see with SQ is the farmacokinetics. Is the half life of test prop/cyp much more different compared to IM?
 

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