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low dose cycle for fat loss

CatSnake

Well-known member
So, I'm 40 YO, and I've been lifting for around 25 years, been dabbling with anabolics for 10 years or so. I've been off for the last 5 years, however.

I had a bout of low T recently, but got that squared away with clomid/ZMA. Also hypothyroid, and take 50 mcg of synthroid/day.

I had a pretty severe injury a couple years ago, and gained a ton of fat.... went from 235 to 297 in around a year. When I got back into working out (this is also when I had to deal with the low testosterone), I've been able to drop 10-15 pounds. It's been about a year and a half and that's where I'm stuck now. T levels are good now... around 750-800.

I'm not looking to get 22" arms or bench 700 lbs, but am thinking a cycle would allow me to lose fat easier and retain my strength/muscle. also, since i'm getting older, my joints are beat up, and could use some help...

I'm planning on running test E at 125 mg/2x week along with NPP at 50 mg/2x week (for a total androgen count of 350 mg/wk). not a heavy cycle by any means, but should help with my goals.... I'm also kicking around the idea of adding cytomel, but will likely wait and see how this goes at first.

anything I'm missing, or any older guys do something similar to this?

thanks!
 
Below are a couple studies that I found that have made me lean towards cycling again:

Effects of testosterone treatment on body fat and lean mass in obese men on a hypocaloric diet: a randomised controlled trial
Mark Ng Tang Fui, Luke A. Prendergast, Philippe Dupuis, Manjri Raval, Boyd J. Strauss, Jeffrey D. Zajac and Mathis GrossmannEmail author


Background
Whether testosterone treatment has benefits on body composition over and above caloric restriction in men is unknown. We hypothesised that testosterone treatment augments diet-induced loss of fat mass and prevents loss of muscle mass.

Methods
We conducted a randomised double-blind, parallel, placebo controlled trial at a tertiary referral centre. A total of 100 obese men (body mass index ≥ 30 kg/m2) with a total testosterone level of or below 12 nmol/L and a median age of 53 years (interquartile range 47–60) receiving 10 weeks of a very low energy diet (VLED) followed by 46 weeks of weight maintenance were randomly assigned at baseline to 56 weeks of 10-weekly intramuscular testosterone undecanoate (n = 49, cases) or matching placebo (n = 51, controls). The main outcome measures were the between-group difference in fat and lean mass by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry, and visceral fat area (computed tomography).

Results
A total of 82 men completed the study. At study end, compared to controls, cases had greater reductions in fat mass, with a mean adjusted between-group difference (MAD) of –2.9 kg (–5.7 to –0.2; P = 0.04), and in visceral fat (MAD –2678 mm2; –5180 to –176; P = 0.04). Although both groups lost the same lean mass following VLED (cases –3.9 kg (–5.3 to –2.6); controls –4.8 kg (–6.2 to –3.5), P = 0.36), cases regained lean mass (3.3 kg (1.9 to 4.7), P < 0.001) during weight maintenance, in contrast to controls (0.8 kg (–0.7 to 2.3), P = 0.29) so that, at study end, cases had an attenuated reduction in lean mass compared to controls (MAD 3.4 kg (1.3 to 5.5), P = 0.002).

Conclusions
While dieting men receiving placebo lost both fat and lean mass, the weight loss with testosterone treatment was almost exclusively due to loss of body fat.
 
Effect of testosterone on metabolic rate and body composition in normal men and men with muscular dystrophy.
Welle S1, Jozefowicz R, Forbes G, Griggs RC.
Author information
Abstract
We have examined the effect of testosterone enanthate injections (3 mg/kg.week, im) on the basal metabolic rate (BMR) estimated by indirect calorimetry and on lean body mass (LBM) estimated by 40K counting in four normal men and nine men with muscular dystrophy. Testosterone treatment increased plasma testosterone levels in all subjects (3-fold mean elevation). BMR increased significantly after 3 months of testosterone treatment (mean, 10%; P less than 0.01; 13% mean increase in the men with muscular dystrophy and 7% mean increase in the normal subjects). BMR remained elevated (mean increase, 9%) after 12 months of testosterone treatment in four men with muscular dystrophy. LBM also was significantly higher after 3 months of treatment (mean, 10%; P less than 0.01) and remained elevated at 12 months. The percent increase in LBM was similar in men with muscular dystrophy (+10%) and normal men (+11%). When BMR was adjusted for the increase in LBM by linear regression, the men with muscular dystrophy had an increase in adjusted BMR after 3 months of testosterone treatment (mean increase, 7%), but not after 12 months. The normal men did not have an increase in adjusted BMR. Testosterone treatment for 12 months slightly reduced body fat, whereas there was an increase in body fat in subjects with muscular dystrophy who were treated with placebo for 12 months. We conclude that there is a significant increase in BMR associated with pharmacological testosterone treatment, which for the most part is explained by the increase in LBM. However, in men with muscular dystrophy, there is a small hypermetabolic effect of testosterone beyond that explained by increased LBM.
 
There are a couple things to consider.

100mg/NPP is really a waste of gear.

You are at 700-800 testosterone naturally. 250mg/wk will bring you to about 1600-2000. There will be a reasonable amount of aromatization and with excess body fat can be a problem. In addition to that at the end of your cycle you will be a suppressed 40yo with a history of low testosterone.

250mg a week IMHO is not worth the suppression at your age unless it's for TRT.

You could easily attain your goals without disrupting hormones. Consider a natural AI and something that can suppress SHBG and in turn raise your free testosterone. The increased free test and reduced E2 can assist your fat loss without causing suppression of your natural testosterone.

Or...run a true testosterone cycle with a quality AI and sound PCT and hope you recover.

In either cases you need to eat train and cardio right.
 
David Dunn said:
There are a couple things to consider.

100mg/NPP is really a waste of gear.

You are at 700-800 testosterone naturally. 250mg/wk will bring you to about 1600-2000. There will be a reasonable amount of aromatization and with excess body fat can be a problem. In addition to that at the end of your cycle you will be a suppressed 40yo with a history of low testosterone.

250mg a week IMHO is not worth the suppression at your age unless it's for TRT.

You could easily attain your goals without disrupting hormones. Consider a natural AI and something that can suppress SHBG and in turn raise your free testosterone. The increased free test and reduced E2 can assist your fat loss without causing suppression of your natural testosterone.

Or...run a true testosterone cycle with a quality AI and sound PCT and hope you recover.

In either cases you need to eat train and cardio right.
Click to expand...

oddly, my E2 is low, so I'm hoping for some aromatization. mine's like 7 right now...

I will admit that this cycle might lead to long term TRT, and I'm comfortable with that.

I talked to a couple buddies who felt that NPP at 100 mg helped their joints, but didn't lead to much in terms of size gains (which I don't really want right now anyway).

I arrived at the dosing based partially off the links above, which were approximately what I am looking at running... I hoped that will get my levels around 1300. Based off several other studies (Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men), I suspect that will be pretty close.

I agree 100% about training and eating right.... I've been doing that for a while, and seeing little effects for what used to work very well for me.
 
Sounds like you've done your research and know the risks to reward. FWIW 200mg had my test and E2 (without an AI) at 1350 and 72 respectively. Good luck.
 
David Dunn said:
Sounds like you've done your research and know the risks to reward. FWIW 200mg had my test and E2 (without an AI) at 1350 and 72 respectively. Good luck.
Click to expand...

dang, that E2 is pretty high.... do you recall what it was prior to your cycle?

thanks again for your advice!
 
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