LMuscle
Well-known member
Where is the best area to put it? Should I use it just like Androgel? Will it cause any loss of libido by lowering e2 too much?
low dht
- Thread starter ohiostate2827
- Start date
Where is the best area to put it? Should I use it just like Androgel? Will it cause any loss of libido by lowering e2 too much?
damage007
Banned
I've only experienced that when using it with adex or letrozole. Even adex, requiring higher doses. Because andractim will free up Test, it shouldn't be an issue under normal circumstances. I applied to my face, behind the knees, on the bottom of my feet where the epidermis is thinnest, and on my chest.
damage007
Banned
Upon doing more research though, low estrogen induced loss of libido seems to be based on post-synaptic serotonin 1A upregulation (since estrogen downregulates it) and due to adrenergic changes because of androgen dominance.....Thus, if we had readily available 1A antagonists (none available atm) and you used an alpha-1-blocker, plus a dopamine agonist and serotonin 5-HT1A antagonist - this would effectively remedy low libido even with low estrogen not changing.
It seems also dependent on oxytocinergic and opioidergic changes(although rapists don't need oxytocin) which means low E2 issues most likely DO come from the backwards feedback on 5-HT1A which inhibits both the nitric oxide pathway and neuropeptide pathways.
It seems also dependent on oxytocinergic and opioidergic changes(although rapists don't need oxytocin) which means low E2 issues most likely DO come from the backwards feedback on 5-HT1A which inhibits both the nitric oxide pathway and neuropeptide pathways.
Yolked
Member
Yeah my favorite compounds are DHT based now... and probably really always have been... lol AndroHard V3 was the best. Dosed first thing in morning I felt almost no shutdown and felt like a god on the athletic fields and weight rooms... it doesn't really give you these HUGE pumps' which can actually hurt endurance, stimulated androgen receptors in CNS which really made me feel like I could dominate my opponents or weights...
AND I've ALWAYS loved Primobolan... like Arnold and many others I believe it's almost the perfect steroid. Clean steady gains that I always kept... help burn fat and gains muscle even while in a caloric deficit... and when I was younger I ran it solo and would never even notice any shutdown or effect on libido... nowdays Masteron goes with EVERYTHING... because of the anti estrogenic properties and sense of well being it's a staple in my HRT...
sammpedd88
Well-known member
Do you dose Masterin instead of test or do you combine them?
Yolked
Member
With testosterone... without and I may end up with NO(zero, nada) estrogen and I definitely don't want that... noone wants that unless stepping on stage for a show.... to get shredded and vascular they want estrogen, pretty much, completely gone.. BUT there's a "sweetspot" for estrogen levels in men to keep libido near the "pornstar" levels... and well being is well maintained also.. But guarantee are looking to get estrogen right back to the "SWEETSPOT" so he can hit the "SWEETSPOT"
sammpedd88
Well-known member
I don't care about stepping on stage, but i do lift. I've been on TRT for a little over a year and I'm always open to improving my protocol. I do take an AI twice a week on injection day, .25 Mgs of arimidex. Would Masteron help keep E2 low and boost libido? How do I know how to dose it?
Gutterpump
Banned
I believe that Buspar has some of these effects!!
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I've been reading up on it for a while now.
EDIT: actually it acts such as the following, but it has a very positive effect on libido:
Receptor Binding Affinity (Ki [nM]) Action
5-HT1A 28.62 Agonist
5-HT2A 138.03 Agonist
5-HT2B 213.79 Agonist
5-HT2C 489.77 Agonist
D2 moderate Antagonist
D3 Antagonist
D4 107 Antagonist
α1 Agonist
α1D Agonist
Yolked
Member
I'd imagine if your estrogen levels are pretty low you could push them too low with too much masteron. Or any for that matter. I guess if you have some room to play with you'll be great but if not you're gonna have trouble. I was just using 100mg a week split in two doses with a little lower amount of testosterone, 80mg a week split into two doses. With no AI, I was doing great...
damage007
Banned
No, buspar is a partial agonist/agonist at the 1A's (it helps with some issues but not low E2) - something like pindolol might help the libido but preferably an IDEAL stack to remedy low E2 induced libido loss would be like.
-Lecozotan or WAY 100 635 + Doxasozin or Prasozin + Apomorphine or Requip
The aim would be to restore NMDA-nitric oxide pathways and to agonize dopamine (since low E2 will drop dopamine production as well, L-dopa won't work cus your body won't convert into dopamine so you'd need an agonist)
You'd also need to counter the adrenergic surge that leads to the irritability and compounds the low N.O levels.
BUT OF COURSE, it's much easier and MUCH less on your WALLET to just lower the dose of the A.I, lolz.
damage007
Banned
I suspect the reason why some fellas don't get low libido with low E2/undetectable is because they already have ridiculous amounts of dopamine and nitric oxide coupled with low serotonin to begin with so much that a drop in dopamine/N.O doesn't mean that much!
I would say the NMDA receptors are also critical.
I would say the NMDA receptors are also critical.
Gutterpump
Banned
If Buspar is a partial D2/D3/D4 antagonist, how come it's known for increasing libido? This is something I've been wondering for a while now. I've been thinking of taking it for anxiety that I get from time to time ( just to chill me out a bit as any anxiety I get is mostly stress induced or from having a bit of an a-type personality) It's not as potent as benzo's nor is it addictive, so it's pretty safe I think.
Yolked
Member
Yeah. A beer or glass of wine? Lol... legal marijuana here makes it easier for me... I get a hangover from 2 beers so alcohol is avoided...
Gutterpump
Banned
I don't like the herbs anymore and I don't like to drink everyday lol... ok to be honest, it's just mainly for when I cycle 
High levels of androgens (I only like very androgenic stuff) can get me a bit wired after some time, usually longer cycles. I don't mind being a bit wired and on the go, but I don't like nervous energy.
High levels of androgens (I only like very androgenic stuff) can get me a bit wired after some time, usually longer cycles. I don't mind being a bit wired and on the go, but I don't like nervous energy.
damage007
Banned
Well it's a bit of a paradox, 5-HT1A agonists suppress serotonin by acting on the autoreceptors, and buspar's affinity for dopamine receptors isn't that great - and would only be considered "moderate" affinity. Thus it's anti-dopaminergic effects aren't that pronounced.
The 5-HT1A is a strange receptor, agonizing it suppresses serotonin and can increase libido, but yet, antagonizing it may have better effects on testosterone by lowering cortisol and prolactin. Additionally, blocking 5-HT1A can prevent reductions in nitric oxide levels and act like naltrexone by lowering opiate receptor activity.
Gutterpump
Banned
Hrmm... I wonder how well Buspar would play with Stablon (Tianeptine) or if there's a chance for Dyskinesia
kisaj
Legend
Where are you?
damage007
Banned
Tianeptine and phenotropil (PHENYL PIRACETAM) together is a superior stack for increasing dopamine receptor expression; and can certainly help remedy low libido
There will be several new ligands that will be on the market soon - including a 1A antagonist.
I'm also working to develop something and am working with another fellow writer and a lab to produce a dihexa group buy.
If you are interested in the dihexa nootropic; follow here. Anybody is welcome to join and place an order.We will be reaching our threshold soon, so hurry if you are interested!
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Dihexa is the hottest topic in noots, and surpasses national security agency's/DARPAS compounds in development.
It can cause neurotropic factors and new synapses/brain cell growth aprox 1000 x more than natural BDNF; turning ordinary brains into superbrains in a matter of weeks.
Hop in if you are interested.
Gutterpump
Banned
Thanks man. I'm all over Longecity! Different screen name though. I'll definitely hop in later!
Gutterpump
Banned
How about PEA + Stablon and a mild dose of deprenyl, like real small (without blocking toooo much MAO-B)
Stablon seems to crap out after a while as well. I can only get it to work for ~3 months before having to just stop it. But wow I love it even solo.
Stablon seems to crap out after a while as well. I can only get it to work for ~3 months before having to just stop it. But wow I love it even solo.
damage007
Banned
The Matrix
Well-known member
If guys are having issues in general which may be neurological base they run a urinary neurotransmitter test (only use one company) to look at the specific ratios of neurotransmitters to see where the imbalances are which may explain their current symptoms .
damage007
Banned
True, and like I always say ; never overlook the small stuff like body fat ratio.
Here's an interesting study showing how male sexual function can be maintained without estrogen but that it may depend on body fat level and general health.
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Yolked
Member
Seattle
kisaj
Legend
kisaj
Legend
It reads like that, and it also decreased bone density which is bad stuff. I have always found it interesting that people here swear by DHT and the guys I know that have taken it did not like it. I've never added into my protocol, so I just sit on the sidelines listening to how it eventually may pan out. My endo and doc are against it and said they do not and would not prescribe.
Yolked
Member
Well it just goes to show we weren't meant to have zero estrogen levels. And the damage that can happen from the lack of testosterone in the system
damage007
Banned
You always have to use a little logic / Insight to truly read these studies; my feeling and experience, as well as observations; is that DHT-drives the confidence, the primal instinct (mainly with a desire to orgasm/ejac) and especially plays a role in selection as far as what types of women you like. It does sustain the basic primal sexual instincts, but without estrogen - that instinct is less "oomph" and the horniness is a bit more shallow....
What I'm specifically referring to (and this makes sense) - estrogen is involved more in erotic fantasies, and the more-in-depth modernized sexual output, whereas DHT is like go back to cave man days sexual instinct.
This is consistent and all throughout multiple history books ; as well as knobil and neal's book on physiology of reproduction.
It's possible to have a high libido with low E2, but as I said, it's more likely that the decrease won't be significant if your dopamine and nitric oxide is already well in the "best" of normal or possibly above normal.
I believe it's the post-synaptic serotonergic changes, that play a huge role, but here comes the kicker, even though aromatase technically supports serotonin production, and with less aromatase means less* serotonin - (this in itself isn't bad) - it's the fact that now w/e serotonin you have left now has an increased affinity to the newly upregulated post-synaptic receptors of the 1A type. { because again, estrogen normally downregulates this subtype }
So therefore, in a way, low estrogen mimics a lot of the post SSRI Sexual dysfunction symptoms - but perhaps without the extreme anhedonia.
I've certainly seen it described that way.
Therefore an approach that would hit PSSD (specifically a 1a antagonist) plus the other methods would be all very appreciable.
Gutterpump
Banned
Ahhh in that case, this likely can't be taken alongside A.R.B's
damage007
Banned
Exactly, it's the bone issues that I'd be worried about with long-term deficiency in E2.
Yolked
Member
I don't know why someone would think zero estrogen is good, if they've done ANY research at all... I got this kid who's asking all kinds of questions about steroids... all these crazy stacks and wanting to take Tren on his first cycle... with testosterone EQ and Dbol... But yet when I asked him about estrogen control he didn't know what I was talking about... I told him go Google everything you can imagine has to do with steroids and come back in 2 weeks... get some general knowledge first and then I'll talk to you. But don't take tren on your first cycle...
Women have testosterone and we have estrogen... there's a balance if you want proper function of your body. I can understand during contest prep, putting estrogen into the cellar for a super ripped, hard look... But for a few weeks and then you gotta get it back up. Pun intended...
Women have testosterone and we have estrogen... there's a balance if you want proper function of your body. I can understand during contest prep, putting estrogen into the cellar for a super ripped, hard look... But for a few weeks and then you gotta get it back up. Pun intended...
Gutterpump
Banned
The worst part about low E2 isn't even the lack of sexual ability (which is bad enough)..... but damn it makes someone horribly snappy/irritable, and the joints... oh God the joints...
damage007
Banned
I didn't get the irritability, and only had a mild decrease of libido with E2 in undetectable range - however, my ankle THROBBED like a bitch. There was a lot of joint cracking/clicking as well.
Yolked
Member
I've only used AndroHard v2 and v3 solo as far as DHT analogs, when I noticed achy joints. However libido wasn't an issue AT ALL.. quite the opposite actually but I'm assuming estrogen wasn't completely, totally gone... lots of vascularity too. So far any Masteron use has coincided with testosterone and felt great at even weekly doses.. 100mg ea.. right now I'm using Aromasin to keep estrogen in check and it's starting out good. I've been reading it's really good at E control without crushing it... and it's hard to "overdose" it especially when E is climbing
damage007
Banned
True, letrozole is the one that is most notorious for "crushing E2".
Gutterpump
Banned
I was using a high dose of epistane at the time. Major boost in libido for two weeks, then libido crash + irritability unless DHEA is added to boost E2. Formestane can give me sore wrists in the gym when used solo.
Gutterpump
Banned
I've used strong androgens at high doses (EQ + mast together) and I didn't find that it lowered my E2 any or bothered joints, and I'm prone to sore shoulders. I would think winny would def cause achy joints though. I used to actually take a low dose of androhard to help boost DHT levels in the past, never tried it at higher doses.
kisaj
Legend
Form is (was) strong, so that is understandable. DHEA is tricky and if you are estrogen sensitive, can affect you positively or negatively with a small amount.
Gutterpump
Banned
DHEA (something like transaderm) is a great way to increase E2 if it's been lowered too much, or when using something that greatly lowers E2. It's a great lil trick when using something like epistane, not that it's around anymore though! I'm a bit sad form is gone now as well.
EatMoar
Well-known member
Some dhea creams have built in AIs.
Yolked
Member
Yeah I loved that AndroHard v3, once daily doses worked great. I never used more than 4 a day where alot would use 6 or more. Solo, at low doses made me feel great. Strong and always in a good mood.. libido like a 20 year old..
Gutterpump
Banned
Yes but definitely not strong enough when using the TD's at high amounts. I always need to up my AI when using DHEA, even TD's.
LMuscle
Well-known member
Stuff like Dermacrine at small amounts increases my mood and libido at first, then makes me irritable with lowered sex drive on the third day of use. If I use the recommended amount, I break out like crazy, super oily, terribly irritable, and low/no sex drive.