Looking to do andros cycle or prohormones

50Magnum

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I was looking at doing an 8 week cycle of andros; but I heard the gains weren't as proficient as prohormones(designer steroids) but not too many side effects. I hear good things with hitech andros but still skeptical. Only thing putting me off designer steroids like msten, dmz, epistane etc. is the lethargy and suppression(basically shutdown), I would need something to offset the lethargy and I heard something like 4 andro would help, also heard that 3ad was good for keeping libido and energy up.

I've done injectable steroids, orals, sarms, never touched prohormones though. The lethargy on sarms was only on LGD and it wasn't the test suppression because I was running clomid on it; and my blood tests showed me at 480 ng/dl test(my natty is around 400) 7th week mark; everytime I took LGD i just got tired for a few hrs **** sucked and the gains werent even that great at 10-15mg a day; just sme strength and water weight. I liked S4 and OStarine better but only ran those during a cut so couldn't gauge since I never bulked wit them. Rad 140 I got from a very reputable source and even while running test with rad that **** suck ass, made my fucking eyes blurry(not like S4 vision) but it was weird so I stopped it and just ran anavar with my test. I've done oral only cycles with tbol and anavar(probably a lil winstrol) during the 5th week or so I started to get a lil lethargic but it wasn't so bad DTP cycle 2 helped alot with the lethargy which I added in.
 

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Any andro or DS will shutdown you, so instead of using 4-DHEA as a test base, use test E and then a proper PCT. It's also more cost effective. To that, you can add any oral as kick start or finisher.
 
50Magnum

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Any andro or DS will shutdown you, so instead of using 4-DHEA as a test base, use test E and then a proper PCT. It's also more cost effective. To that, you can add any oral as kick start or finisher.
To be honest I just get fatter after a cycle from test and my strength goes down(even cutting back on food compared to cycle), aint trying to mess with it for a lil while
Any andro or DS will shutdown you, so instead of using 4-DHEA as a test base, use test E and then a proper PCT. It's also more cost effective. To that, you can add any oral as kick start or finisher.
. With sarms and orals I never had this problem really; just slight loss in muscle but I end up being fine. And I feel like **** for the first week ; where as sarms and orals pct is so much of a breeze to me cause I only got suppression not full shutdown like running test.....

I agree test is more cost effective done 2 cycles of it, steroids in general are cost effective; but the aftermath of it doesnt go well on test fr my body. My libido after a test cycle goes to **** while on pct and after pct and it takes months for it go back to normal, even during pct where I have had bloods done after test my levels are at 800 ng/dl but my libido isn't there. Where as sarms and orals I feel slightly lethargic and loss of libido during the 5th and 6th week, but once I PCT the first week I'm a 100% fine. Just how my body works.
 
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Hyde

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Quit cycling now if you don’t like being on test, because chances are this is going to make you need HRT later in life just to function. You are already around 400 levels naturally now. What happens when it’s 200? How are you going to feel about your libido then?

Everything has a cost equal to its efficacy. Play the game or get off the court before you do more unnecessary lasting damage for a couple more lbs of muscle.
 

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Quit cycling now if you don’t like being on test, because chances are this is going to make you need HRT later in life just to function. You are already around 400 levels naturally now. What happens when it’s 200? How are you going to feel about your libido then?

Everything has a cost equal to its efficacy. Play the game or get off the court before you do more unnecessary lasting damage for a couple more lbs of muscle.
was reading the thread thinking exactly this. Prohormones like 4-andro are only converting to test anyway (just at crazy low amounts) so if you take enough to get the benefit you’ll get the same issues (and if you don’t take enough then you’ll be messing with your endocrine system for no gain)

I used to lose more than I wanted coming off cycles so I decided to stay on......that’s the other option (blast and cruise) but that’s not something I’d ever recommend as that’s for everyone to decide themselves.

but Hyde is totally right. Quit with it now or accept it’s how it is. Trying to find a prohormone to get good results with no sides is like trying to find a women who is a good mother to your kids, a freak in the bedroom and mentally stable.....they don’t exist. Upsides come with downsides.

if such a compound existed we’d all be taking it bro.

there’s some decent natty supps out there. Gains will be way lower but obviously no hormone issues. Or look at peptides.
 
50Magnum

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lets be honest... whats the difference? once suppressed your in the same boat "as if" u were shutdown. you still need to do something about it.
Difference is when u run test chances are u run into the risk of getting primary or secondary hypogonadism because technically u shut down ur testes and pituitary for some time. Either ur pituitary isnt functioning at at a 100% anymore or its your testes that aren't a hundred percent. Not saying if you constantly suppress urself with sarms/prohormones it wont happen because Ive heard people fucking their **** up with it. I just don't like how my body gets after a test cycle thats all. Now if your looking to add a shitton of size I agree test/sme orals is the way to go blows, juice blows sarms gains out the water
 
50Magnum

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Quit cycling now if you don’t like being on test, because chances are this is going to make you need HRT later in life just to function. You are already around 400 levels naturally now. What happens when it’s 200? How are you going to feel about your libido then?

Everything has a cost equal to its efficacy. Play the game or get off the court before you do more unnecessary lasting damage for a couple more lbs of muscle.
True, at the end of the
was reading the thread thinking exactly this. Prohormones like 4-andro are only converting to test anyway (just at crazy low amounts) so if you take enough to get the benefit you’ll get the same issues (and if you don’t take enough then you’ll be messing with your endocrine system for no gain)

I used to lose more than I wanted coming off cycles so I decided to stay on......that’s the other option (blast and cruise) but that’s not something I’d ever recommend as that’s for everyone to decide themselves.

but Hyde is totally right. Quit with it now or accept it’s how it is. Trying to find a prohormone to get good results with no sides is like trying to find a women who is a good mother to your kids, a freak in the bedroom and mentally stable.....they don’t exist. Upsides come with downsides.

if such a compound existed we’d all be taking it bro.

there’s some decent natty supps out there. Gains will be way lower but obviously no hormone issues. Or look at peptides.
Yea thats true, I just dont like that feeling when I come off test thats all. I know sarms/ds/prohormones all risk the chances of fucking up ur hormones. I just hate that feeling of being on test then coming off. Sarms and orals I feel great on pct since my im suppressed most of the time on cycle and then when I run clomid I feel like a million bucks.
 
50Magnum

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Are there any logs on here that show bloodwork with people running these andros? I can't seem to find em; most people say they get lil suppression but I would like to def see what their blood work looks like on andros, esp if running a high enough dose gives you shutdown or heavy suppression with subpar gains.....
 
Hyde

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Are there any logs on here that show bloodwork with people running these andros? I can't seem to find em; most people say they get lil suppression but I would like to def see what their blood work looks like on andros, esp if running a high enough dose gives you shutdown or heavy suppression with subpar gains.....
A few of my cycles were Andros. Usually 8 weeks of 4andro, EpiAndro, 1andro or 19andro. That didn’t even hold a candle to 30-40mg of epistane for 4 weeks. And you end up needing the same PCT and having as many or more sides like lethargy.

Andros are essentially legal additions for those with money to blow and need to keep it all legal. So they have a place in the world. BUT I am telling you that any and all hormonal cycling is going to further contribute to decreasing test levels over the years (faster than regular aging would). So while you certainly don’t need test now, I just want you to understand you likely will in 20 years. If you are cool with that then keep doing your thing.

Iconic Formulations has some good Andro transdermal preparations out now and they have a board coupon code, and Apex Alchemy has some Epiandrosterone and topical Dienelone (higher sides and suppression) if you want something more serious to stack with the andros. Or you could use some SARMs of course from MA Research, and Vicious Labs has a sale right now on all their products if you want designers like Msten, DMZ, M1A (these are going to suppress you pretty fast and have more sides like Dienelone, and yield bigger results).
 
50Magnum

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A few of my cycles were Andros. Usually 8 weeks of 4andro, EpiAndro, 1andro or 19andro. That didn’t even hold a candle to 30-40mg of epistane for 4 weeks. And you end up needing the same PCT and having as many or more sides like lethargy.

Andros are essentially legal additions for those with money to blow and need to keep it all legal. So they have a place in the world. BUT I am telling you that any and all hormonal cycling is going to further contribute to decreasing test levels over the years (faster than regular aging would). So while you certainly don’t need test now, I just want you to understand you likely will in 20 years. If you are cool with that then keep doing your thing.

Iconic Formulations has some good Andro transdermal preparations out now and they have a board coupon code, and Apex Alchemy has some Epiandrosterone and topical Dienelone (higher sides and suppression) if you want something more serious to stack with the andros. Or you could use some SARMs of course from MA Research, and Vicious Labs has a sale right now on all their products if you want designers like Msten, DMZ, M1A (these are going to suppress you pretty fast and have more sides like Dienelone, and yield bigger results).
yea I get what you mean; how were the gains on andros btw? I'm seeing people logging 5-10lbs on a cycle(but alot of them dont show any after pics. I know it cant touch dmz, msten, or epistane since I've seen people pack serious lbs and these ds rival aas gains.
 
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@50Magnum I'm the same with injectables. It takes forever to feel great again. Libido, self confidence, energy, motivation ... it's 3 months after the end of pct for me. It's not just hormones, it's the whole dopamine serotonin, etc. systems that get reved ul whem youre on cycle and the you crash aftewards. The brain needs time to level it self back to normal levels. Do ot expect to feel good while on serms. They are esentially acting like estrogen on a lot of tissues and you will feel shitty on them no matter what. And they also take a long time to clear out. 2 or 3 weeks after cessation of serms you are clear of them.

Low levels of test wont mess up your neurchemistry. Like a trt amouny of test coulled with some highly non androgenics like sarms is your best bet. But tbh, I feelt really good on Ostarine. So that definetly had an androgenic component to it. And all sarms do imo. Not that Im an expert on them.

One way of easying pct and post pct is to simply use just a trt dose of test one month prior to pct. Also using peptides in pct and afterwards should help with mood/libido. You cluld also use GH, 4iu ed.

But no matter what you do you will alter your brain chemistry. The more you do the more gains you will get and vice versa. Like whisky said, if there was a thing with no sides, we'd all be taking it.

You can come a long way with peptides/gh a gda and some feel good test boosters. That's your cycle tbh. Keep it up for a longer time and you'll bhild the same size or more with andros.
 
Hyde

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yea I get what you mean; how were the gains on andros btw? I'm seeing people logging 5-10lbs on a cycle(but alot of them dont show any after pics. I know it cant touch dmz, msten, or epistane since I've seen people pack serious lbs and these ds rival aas gains.
Like 6-8lbs in 8 weeks and I was a bit fatter, nearly what I accomplished with a natty sup like Vector and a steady surplus. I would genuinely recommend something natty like Vector over an andro-only cycle. Save tons of money, no hormonal disruption or PCT to endure, keep making steady progress.
 
50Magnum

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Like 6-8lbs in 8 weeks and I was a bit fatter, nearly what I accomplished with a natty sup like Vector and a steady surplus. I would genuinely recommend something natty like Vector over an andro-only cycle. Save tons of money, no hormonal disruption or PCT to endure, keep making steady progress.
I've done CEL Anabolic Effect before and I think thats the closest profile to Vector; and to be honest I didn't see much from it, seems like I'm a non responder. I might as well just stick to creatine and food in that matter like I always have in the past.
 
thebigt

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there are some really great reviews of the iconic formulations black series andro's....and several guys are logging ultra hard and seem to be getting nice results.
 
Renew1

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"Difference is when u run test chances are u run into the risk of getting primary or secondary hypogonadism because technically u shut down ur testes and pituitary for some time."

Testosterone doesn't put you at a higher risk than other steroids.
That's incorrect, brother.
 
Hyde

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there are some really great reviews of the iconic formulations black series andro's....and several guys are logging ultra hard and seem to be getting nice results.
It’s important he pay attention to everything they’re using though to judge accurately. Thor is running DMZ and using Ultra Hard as a base (and loving it). But it’s the DMZ & Mk677 coupled with a surplus giving him the lbs on the scale - Epiandro & Androsterone aren’t going to be responsible for any lean mass gains. OP would want to especially look at Icon-1.

Isn’t “Thebigt” your discount code?
 
delsolrob

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Yeah, Ultra Hard is more for hardening...with a major focus on the androgenic benefits - many of them would be welcome additions to most runs of PH/DS

Icon One is a better product for recomp and I'd consider Alpha Four a better bulker...with some amazing feel good qualities.

Alpha Seven is ideal for cutting
 
50Magnum

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"Difference is when u run test chances are u run into the risk of getting primary or secondary hypogonadism because technically u shut down ur testes and pituitary for some time."

Testosterone doesn't put you at a higher risk than other steroids.
That's incorrect, brother.
I never said test puts you at higher risk health wise if anything it is one of the most studied compounds and the safest option health wise. I was just merely talking shutdown and recovery, whether its a 150mg of test or 500mg a week your getting shutdown a 100%. Sarms/orals it depends on how long your cycle is and the dosage. It was harder for me to come back when I was fully shutdown even with HCG on cycle after PCT compared to when I was suppressed on orals and sarms mind you oral/ds cycles are usually 4-6 weeks; sarms 8 weeks. All in all if I was to choose a cycle that would shut me down completely I would just opt for test no question and an oral AAS and maybe some DHB.
 
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Renew1

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I never said test puts you at higher risk health wise if anything it is one of the most studied compounds and the safest option health wise. I was just merely talking shutdown and recovery, whether its a 150mg of test or 500mg a week your getting shutdown a 100%. Sarms/orals it depends on how long your cycle is and the dosage. It was harder for me to come back when I was fully shutdown even with HCG on cycle after PCT compared to when I was suppressed on orals and sarms mind you oral/ds cycles are usually 4-6 weeks; sarms 8 weeks. All in all if I was to choose a cycle that would shut me down completely I would just opt for test no question and an oral AAS and maybe some DHB.
That's what I was referring to.

You are mistaken about Testosterone and recovery.
Test recovery isn't necessarily harder than recovery from other steroids
 
50Magnum

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That's what I was referring to.

You are mistaken about Testosterone and recovery.
Test recovery isn't necessarily harder than recovery from other steroids
well it has been for me compared to running something like anavar/tbol and sarms. Maybe for you its not; but for me my libido and energy levels isn't the same for months after PCT. Mind you I have ran two test cycles at a low to moderate dose; 1 was 150mg a week the other one was 250mg a week after coming off outcome was the same. While as with sarms/moderate dose aas my libido/energy only goes down while I'm on cycle during the 6th week or so because of suppression, but during and after pct I'm a 100% and I have no issues with my libido.
 
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well it has been for me compared to running something like anavar/tbol and sarms. Maybe for you its not; but for me my libido and energy levels isn't the same for months after PCT. Mind you I have ran two test cycles at a low to moderate dose; 1 was 150mg a week the other one was 250mg a week after coming off outcome was the same. While as with sarms/moderate dose aas my libido/energy only goes down while I'm on cycle during the 6th week or so because of suppression, but during and after pct I'm a 100% and I have no issues with my libido.
It isn't a "you" vs "me" thing.
It is just a general rule of steroids.
If you had a different experience ... Well, that can happen.
But if we are talking about what generally happens ... That's what I posted.
 
50Magnum

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It isn't a "you" vs "me" thing.
It is just a general rule of steroids.
If you had a different experience ... Well, that can happen.
But if we are talking about what generally happens ... That's what I posted.
well I was coming from my own experience,. Its just how my body works; and I bet there are some people who are the same; just go on mesorx, professional muscle, etc. plenty of people making threads how even after PCT from a few test cycles they had to go the HRT route because of primary or secondary hypogonadism. And then there are many people who recover fine after running injectables with PCT or without even PCT, I'm just speaking from my own experience and how my body reacts. It really all goes down on the person; there are people who blast and cruise for years and come out being fine physically and mentally. So I guess it just depends on the person. Hey man my brother used to pop superdrol like candy back in the day, and drinking on it; never had any problems, now there are cases of people who have done the same and end up having serious problems...
 
thebigt

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well I was coming from my own experience,. Its just how my body works; and I bet there are some people who are the same; just go on mesorx, professional muscle, etc. plenty of people making threads how even after PCT from a few test cycles they had to go the HRT route because of primary or secondary hypogonadism. And then there are many people who recover fine after running injectables with PCT or without even PCT, I'm just speaking from my own experience and how my body reacts. It really all goes down on the person; there are people who blast and cruise for years and come out being fine physically and mentally. So I guess it just depends on the person. Hey man my brother used to pop superdrol like candy back in the day, and drinking on it; never had any problems, now there are cases of people who have done the same and end up having serious problems...
everyone is different...my doc told me i am in 5% of population that ambien keeps awake, it actually puts me in meditative state and prevents sleep.
 
Vitruvian Man

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@Vitruvian Man is hitting PRs on 220 mg 1/4 Andros
I am indeed. Adding androsterone, epi, and/or 3AD would make for a really good stack. Can’t really offer much incite in terms of comparison though as andros/DHEA is as far down the anabolic rabbithole I’ve been
 
Renew1

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well I was coming from my own experience,. Its just how my body works; and I bet there are some people who are the same; just go on mesorx, professional muscle, etc. plenty of people making threads how even after PCT from a few test cycles they had to go the HRT route because of primary or secondary hypogonadism. And then there are many people who recover fine after running injectables with PCT or without even PCT, I'm just speaking from my own experience and how my body reacts. It really all goes down on the person; there are people who blast and cruise for years and come out being fine physically and mentally. So I guess it just depends on the person. Hey man my brother used to pop superdrol like candy back in the day, and drinking on it; never had any problems, now there are cases of people who have done the same and end up having serious problems...
Of course part of what you say is true (I say it all of the time), Part of our response will be individual.
However, there is a normal standard, which happens for the majority of people that do something (including steroids).
I mean, think about it... If there weren't .... Sites like these would be mostly gone.

As thebigt said, ambien causes sleeplessness in 5% of the population (that is the Individual response. The unusual, and unexpected response).
In the vast majority of people Ambien helps them sleep.

So, if someone came on here and asked, "what will happen if I take Ambien"?
Our response could be, "It's all individual, man".
But the much more helpful (and desired type of) answer to that question would be, "It'll probably help you sleep, like it does most people".

If we relegated every answer to "it's all individual", this would be an awfully unhelpful place. .... And that answer wouldn't be entirely accurate anyway.
 
thebigt

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Of course part of what you say is true (I say it all of the time), Part of our response will be individual.
However, there is a normal standard, which happens for the majority of people that do something (including steroids).
I mean, think about it... If there weren't .... Sites like these would be mostly gone.

As thebigt said, ambien causes sleeplessness in 5% of the population (that is the Individual response. The unusual, and unexpected response).
In the vast majority of people Ambien helps them sleep.

So, if someone came on here and asked, "what will happen if I take Ambien"?
Our response could be, "It's all individual, man".
But the much more helpful (and desired type of) answer to that question would be, "It'll probably help you sleep, like it does most people".

If we relegated every answer to "it's all individual", this would be an awfully unhelpful place. .... And that answer wouldn't be entirely accurate anyway.
well thought out response.
 

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