Log for 1st run with LGD 4033

KetoPhysique

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OK, I decided to finally take the leap based on all my research regarding LGD 4033. I will give you guys the rundown on my plans for this cycle and post cycle. This is my first ever trial doing anything outside of what would be considered standard. That being said, I am trying to keep this as simple as possible so I can determine if it is worth doing again.

My basic info. I am 43 years old and have been training HARD for two years now. 6'1" and 170 lbs at around 12-13% body fat. I have been following a ketogenic diet for close to 2 years as well. I went from 215 and out of shape to 155 and shredded in less than a year and have been using keto to build muscle since then. I am currently nearing the end of a mini cut to lean out a little. I plan to post progress pics and anecdotal observations of this cycle.

My goal. to correct some imbalances and add some quality muscle.

Update: This was what I ended up going with and what I will use for my next cycle

The cycle
LGD 4033 10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10
Exemestane 12.5 EOD until LGD ends
Dermacrine 5 pumps ED until LGD ends
Natural test boosters (garlic extract, icarin, boron, vit D, etc.

The post cycle
Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex) starting day after last LGD dose 20/20/10/10
Exemestane EOD 12.5/12.5/8/8
DAA for the first 2 weeks after LGD ends
Laxogenin
Natural test boosters (garlic extract, icarin, boron, vit D, etc.

I ended up feeling great the whole cycle. The first two weeks of PCT was the only exception while the hormone shift was occurring. Just felt different and a little emotional... But nothing major.
 

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Currently on day 3. Did not notice anything the first few days, aside from the wretched taste of the stuff, but today has been a little different. I am currently in a 600 calorie deficit from my usual maintenance of 2850, and have been like that for the past 4 weeks, with one more week to go before I ease back up to maintenance. This morning the wide chest presses felt significantly less heavy than they did last week.

Last week - 204x10x10x7x7x5
Today - 204x10x10x10x9x6

My stomach also got a little uneasy not long after taking it this morning and was followed by having to rush to the gym to hit the bathroom before my workout, which is unusual.

As I sit here now I feel quite a bit more antsy than usual as well.
 
Geoffr

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I personally would begin the cycle at 10mg ED, but if you’re worried for whatever reason about the dosage, do 5mg for two weeks then go to 10mg for 6-8weeks. Lethargy is defiantly a possibility if you are not running a test base.

Arimistane would be good to use during your cycle, but I don’t get why you’re using it during PCT without anything else that will actually help you recover. You should REALLY look into a using a SERM, if not a good natty test booster at the very least.. I would save the laxo for your PCT along with your other natural muscle builders you mentioned (whatever they may be)
 
jameschoi

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I personally would begin the cycle at 10mg ED, but if you’re worried for whatever reason about the dosage, do 5mg for two weeks then go to 10mg for 6-8weeks. Lethargy is defiantly a possibility if you are not running a test base.

Arimistane would be good to use during your cycle, but I don’t get why you’re using it during PCT without anything else that will actually help you recover. You should REALLY look into a using a SERM, if not a good natty test booster at the very least.. I would save the laxo for your PCT along with your other natural muscle builders you mentioned (whatever they may be)
What is a good test base for LGD.
 
Geoffr

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Testosterone lol.... but if you’re not going to pin I would use Oral Trest or Transdermal Trest or both!

But you’re going to need a real AI if you’re going to use Trest.

Our Board Sponsor PRE, sells Oral and TD Trest and Exemistane for research purposes only....

And no I don’t work for them haha, I have researched their products and they are legit.

Dermacrine is also very popular paired with LGD serving as a test base.
 
KetoPhysique

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I personally would begin the cycle at 10mg ED, but if you’re worried for whatever reason about the dosage, do 5mg for two weeks then go to 10mg for 6-8weeks. Lethargy is defiantly a possibility if you are not running a test base.

Arimistane would be good to use during your cycle, but I don’t get why you’re using it during PCT without anything else that will actually help you recover. You should REALLY look into a using a SERM, if not a good natty test booster at the very least.. I would save the laxo for your PCT along with your other natural muscle builders you mentioned (whatever they may be)
What is a good test base for LGD.
He asked what I was going to ask. What is a good test base? I will take your suggestion on the dosing.
 
KetoPhysique

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Ahh ok. I was replying at the same time. So after looking up more info, 25mg of arimistane should suffice while running the LGD? Is DAA not strong enough to help with the test bounce back? I see Dermacrine's main ingredient is DHEA which is something that I already supplement, but in pill form. However it looks like it is more effective at converting to test when absorbed through the skin... interesting. Will save the laxo until after LGD. Any particular reason why you recommend that? I havent found a lot of info regarding that combo in general. The last time I took laxo it definitely made a difference all by itself.
 
Geoffr

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Arimistane (Not to be confused with Exemistane) isn’t really much of an AI at all, I’d say run 50mg-75mg if you’re going to use it.

I don’t see any reason to run natural muscle builders during your cycle, I would save them for after the cycle to help you maintain and keep your gains while also helping bring your test back to normal levels.

You can never be to safe for your PCT, That’s why I reccomend a SERM like Clomid. Improper PCT = loss of all gains and longer recovery

Have you got any blood work done? You should look into that just to know where you are. In the future, if you’re eligible, TRT would be benificial and you wouldn’t have to worry about a test base or a PCT :)
 
KetoPhysique

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OK, thanks again. Will do 50mg of Arimistane. The last test labs I had done a few months ago had me at 633 ng/dl. Tracking down some dermacrine.
 
KetoPhysique

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Ok after the feedback I went back to do more research. Tamoxifen will be added to the PCT plan. I could use some dosing suggestions for that.

Also, ordering some dermacrine as a test base for LGD cycle.

I have a question regarding DAA, though. Since it seems to be a rather decent free test booster (at least in the short term), wouldn't it be useful to use early in the LGD cycle for a few weeks to reduce the test suppression impact a bit before it begins to affect/suppress natural production? Ie. Increase my baseline while I can. Then add it back again as part of PCT with Clomid?

I truly appreciate the guidance. I am an IT geek for a career, so I do tons of research. Just lots of conflicting things out there. Trying to keep this as simple and effective as I can to reduce side effects.

Thanks, brothers!
 
Jm88888

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Ok after the feedback I went back to do more research. Clomid (aka tamoxifen, aka nolvadex) will be added to the PCT plan. I could use some dosing suggestions for that.

Also, ordering some dermacrine as a test base for LGD cycle.

I have a question regarding DAA, though. Since it seems to be a rather decent free test booster (at least in the short term), wouldn't it be useful to use early in the LGD cycle for a few weeks to reduce the test suppression impact a bit before it begins to affect/suppress natural production? Ie. Increase my baseline while I can. Then add it back again as part of PCT with Clomid?

I truly appreciate the guidance. I am an IT geek for a career, so I do tons of research. Just lots of conflicting things out there. Trying to keep this as simple and effective as I can to reduce side effects.

Thanks, brothers!
Clomid is not AKA tamoxifen or nolvadex. They are 3 different chemicals. As far as dosages go, it’s going to depend on which of these PCT products you go with

DAA is not going to do jack ****e for you if you are a putting a suppressive substance in your body like LGD. At a minimum you need a proper dose of dermacrine.

Should be like this:
13 weeks
LGD: 10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10/0/0/0/0/0
Derma pumps: 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/0/0/0/0/0
Clomid: 0/0/0/0/0/0/0/0/100/50/25/25/12.5
OTC PCT servings: 0/0/0/0/0/0/0/0/1/1/1/1/1

Have AI on hand if dermacrine raises your E
 
KetoPhysique

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Clomid is not AKA tamoxifen or nolvadex. They are 3 different chemicals. As far as dosages go, it’s going to depend on which of these PCT products you go with

DAA is not going to do jack ****e for you if you are a putting a suppressive substance in your body like LGD. At a minimum you need a proper dose of dermacrine.

Should be like this:
13 weeks
LGD: 10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10/0/0/0/0/0
Derma pumps: 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/0/0/0/0/0
Clomid: 0/0/0/0/0/0/0/0/100/50/25/25/12.5
OTC PCT servings: 0/0/0/0/0/0/0/0/1/1/1/1/1

Have AI on hand if dermacrine raises your E
Thanks for the education and info! Currently taking arimistane.

When searching for clomid, tamoxifen kept coming up. Tamoxifen is what I am currently planning to use. How would dosing for that look?
 
Geoffr

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Thanks for the education and info! Currently taking arimistane.

When searching for clomid, tamoxifen kept coming up. Tamoxifen is what I am currently planning to use. How would dosing for that look?
You need a real AI like Exemistane, again Arimistane doesn’t do much of anything and you’ll pay for it if you run into high Estrogen issues.

Clomifen Citrate - Clomid
Tamoxifen Citrate - Nolva
 

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Good info in here.

Also, I am on 10mg of LGD and have to take in with food in the morning or I also get GI issues so you are not alone.

May have to stop short because I absolutely cannot sleep on it even when taking it around 7am. In my 3rd week and have felt almost 0 difference.
 
Jm88888

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You need a real AI like Exemistane, again Arimistane doesn’t do much of anything and you’ll pay for it if you run into high Estrogen issues.

Clomifen Citrate - Clomid
Tamoxifen Citrate - Nolva
I don’t know that he needs exemestane just for dermacrine. I think arimistane could be fine with that. If he was going with Dermatrest like you... Absolutely not.
 
KetoPhysique

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I don’t know that he needs exemestane just for dermacrine. I think arimistane could be fine with that. If he was going with Dermatrest like you... Absolutely not.
You need a real AI like Exemistane, again Arimistane doesn’t do much of anything and you’ll pay for it if you run into high Estrogen issues.

Clomifen Citrate - Clomid
Tamoxifen Citrate - Nolva
OK, so based on the feedback and guidance (you guys rocks), along with the research I have done so far, I will be ordering some dermacrine and tamoxifen today and will start using the dermacrine as soon as it arrives as well as increase the arimistane to 75mg starting today. That way I will have the Tamoxifen on-hand, just in case it is needed. Then will use tamoxifen+DAA+laxo during PCT. Will update the first post with more info about these changes once I get some info about proper dosing for tamoxifen.

Also ran across SR9009 (Stenabolic) and Cardarine during research and am considering adding one of those as well. Thoughts?
 
Jm88888

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OK, so based on the feedback and guidance (you guys rocks), along with the research I have done so far, I will be ordering some dermacrine and tamoxifen today and will start using the dermacrine as soon as it arrives as well as increase the arimistane to 75mg starting today. That way I will have the Tamoxifen on-hand, just in case it is needed. Then will use tamoxifen+DAA+laxo during PCT. Will update the first post with more info about these changes once I get some info about proper dosing for tamoxifen.

Also ran across SR9009 (Stenabolic) and Cardarine during research and am considering adding one of those as well. Thoughts?
Personally.... I’d take it slow with stacking a bunch of stuff...
 
KetoPhysique

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Personally.... I’d take it slow with stacking a bunch of stuff...
Noted. Will hold off on the Cardarine, then. I really do appreciate the advice. This stuff makes me nervous with it being my first trial, but I also want to get results. I definitely take the experience and advice to heart.
 
Geoffr

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Noted. Will hold off on the Cardarine, then. I really do appreciate the advice. This stuff makes me nervous with it being my first trial, but I also want to get results. I definitely take the experience and advice to heart.
I agree. Take it slow and the gains will come. Once you get your feet wet and have a successful cycle and PCT then I would consider multiple compounds
 
KetoPhysique

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Day 4

All movements went up a bit in weight or reps today despite still being in a deficit.

Feeling antsy/nervous a bit in general. Enough to basically kill my appetite for the most part. I can still manage to eat, though. Has anyone else heard of someone feeling this before when taking LGD? The upside to it is that since I do intermittent fasting 4 days per week, it helps with the hunger I usually get before bedtime.
 
KetoPhysique

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Day 5

Stomach seems less upset today and the anxious feeling I had during the previous two days seems to have decreased. My appetite was a little better last night as well. (wondering if the DAA that I stopped a couple days ago was causing some of that stuff...) Still experiencing a slight increase in overall power. Endurance/recovery during and between sets are noticeably better. Pump seems to last a bit longer.

After reading various reports about bunk SARMs people have received (I went with a less expensive/established supplier, which in turn has made me a bit paranoid and on high alert with observations) I don't think I have been this hyper-aware of my physical state before. I definitely looked at my nipples more yesterday than any other day in my life. (fear of gyno) :biglaugh: I can definitely say that something is different... just really hope it is the different I want it to be. :nervous: No change in libido or sexual performance so far.

Stoked to see what the strength increases will be as I do a short reverse diet out of the caloric deficit. I basically feel like I am lifting at maintenance right now instead of at a deficit.

Capture-_2018-03-02-10-44-21.jpg
 
KetoPhysique

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Day 9

I increased LGD to 10mg at Day 6 once the stuff I was experiencing leveled back out. At this point I am not feeling any of the anxiousness or loss of appetite. Workouts definitely have a different feel. Even though I feel a bit less energetic than normal, when it is "go time" to move the weight, I am able to move it easier than expected. It's an unusual feeling. But I am happy with the progress so far. I am able to add weight and reps a little faster than usual, and the pump from the workouts are noticeably increased. During my cut I was not doing any carb refeeds at the end of the week for the previous month. This past Sunday I finally had a carb-up. The pump from the workout the following day was INSANE. Felt like I was about to burst. haha (Pic added below.)

I feeling the lethargy that has been mentioned. As the day goes on, I definitely feel more tired than usual and early bedtimes are becoming a thing. I have always had issues with sleep and usually wake up about an hour before my set alarm. For the past 3 days, I have crashed out a little early and am sleeping until the alarm goes off.

So now I have a question... I am using 4 pumps of dermacrine per day, and am taking 75mg of arimistane daily. I already have Tamoxifen Citrate on-hand. Should I start adding that to counteract the lethargy? If so, at what dose/ schedule? And, if I add it, should the dermacrine and/or arimistane be adjusted?

Thanks a ton for the guidance!
 

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Day 9

I increased LGD to 10mg at Day 6 once the stuff I was experiencing leveled back out. At this point I am not feeling any of the anxiousness or loss of appetite. Workouts definitely have a different feel. Even though I feel a bit less energetic than normal, when it is "go time" to move the weight, I am able to move it easier than expected. It's an unusual feeling. But I am happy with the progress so far. I am able to add weight and reps a little faster than usual, and the pump from the workouts are noticeably increased. During my cut I was not doing any carb refeeds at the end of the week for the previous month. This past Sunday I finally had a carb-up. The pump from the workout the following day was INSANE. Felt like I was about to burst. haha (Pic added below.)

I feeling the lethargy that has been mentioned. As the day goes on, I definitely feel more tired than usual and early bedtimes are becoming a thing. I have always had issues with sleep and usually wake up about an hour before my set alarm. For the past 3 days, I have crashed out a little early and am sleeping until the alarm goes off.

So now I have a question... I am using 4 pumps of dermacrine per day, and am taking 75mg of arimistane daily. I already have Tamoxifen Citrate on-hand. Should I start adding that to counteract the lethargy? If so, at what dose/ schedule? And, if I add it, should the dermacrine and/or arimistane be adjusted?

Thanks a ton for the guidance!

Why would you use Nolva during your cycle and to combat lethargy?
 
KetoPhysique

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Why would you use Nolva during your cycle and to combat lethargy?
I was basically thinking out loud... I researched further and saw noone else really does that. Which makes sense seeing that the LGD is what is suppressing test production. I am now assuming that would prevent the Nova from doing its thing in regards to increasing test. Sorry for the dumb question... I may be overthinking it. Seems like I may just have to deal with it since I am not wanting to leverage a stronger test base than dermacrine.

The lack of test is what is causing the lethargy from what I gather? So I was just thinking that increasing test would counteract that.
 

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I found the old BPI Dermacrine @ 5 pumps ED to be best, but I'm not sure if the Icon version is different dose wise. Epiandro, around the 900mg mark would be a nice addition
 
Geoffr

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I was basically thinking out loud... I researched further and saw noone else really does that. Which makes sense seeing that the LGD is what is suppressing test production. I am now assuming that would prevent the Nova from doing its thing in regards to increasing test. Sorry for the dumb question... I may be overthinking it. Seems like I may just have to deal with it since I am not wanting to leverage a stronger test base than dermacrine.

The lack of test is what is causing the lethargy from what I gather? So I was just thinking that increasing test would counteract that.
You could increase the pumps or even add a different test base. Trest is great but it does add some water and you’ll need watch your estrogen but it sure does great as a test base.
 
KetoPhysique

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I found the old BPI Dermacrine @ 5 pumps ED to be best, but I'm not sure if the Icon version is different dose wise. Epiandro, around the 900mg mark would be a nice addition
You could increase the pumps or even add a different test base. Trest is great but it does add some water and you’ll need watch your estrogen but it sure does great as a test base.
I appreciate the suggestions. I increased to 5 pumps the same day I saw your replies (about 5 days ago now) and that has helped with the lethargy.
 
KetoPhysique

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BTW, I have some exemestane on order and will be replacing the arimistane with that. I am starting to notice a little extra sensitivity in the nipples, so I want to play it safe in regard to avoiding any serious gyno effects. That being said, is it worthwhile to add a daily dose of Tamoxifen for the next couple days until the exemestane arrives, since I already have it on-hand?
 
KetoPhysique

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Day 29

Everything is freakin' aces so far! Setting new PRs every week. I am up about 5lbs of lean muscle so far and I feel like I did before starting the cycle as far as lethargy goes. Increasing dermacrine to 4.5-5 pumps per day did the trick in that regard. About 10 days ago I replaced the arimistane with Exemestane 12.5mg EOD. This has knocked out the weird nipple feelings I was starting to get. Libido/sexual function are still in good order. Cruising on to bottle number two for another month of LGD gains.
 
bobi593

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hey bro I'm also on ketogenic diet long time but I've never been bulking on keto just cutting and maintaining my weight, you said in your posts that you were able to build muscles on keto, which form of calories do you add when you bulk ? fats or protein?
 

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������ bump ��
 
KetoPhysique

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hey bro I'm also on ketogenic diet long time but I've never been bulking on keto just cutting and maintaining my weight, you said in your posts that you were able to build muscles on keto, which form of calories do you add when you bulk ? fats or protein?
I always keep protein a little over my lean body mass. Lean mass is around 160 right now. I eat 170-175g protein. 25g carbs, and the rest of the calories are fat. So when I am in a slight surplus I just add more fat.
 
KetoPhysique

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I have about another 7-10 days left on this 2 month cycle. Everything is going so smoothly, and I am progressing on lifts so fast, that I am super tempted to cruise through another bottle of LGD into a 3rd month... Thoughts?

Questions that come to mind...

1. Is testosterone suppressed more and more the longer you are on an LGD cycle? Or, is suppression primarily associated with the dosing?
2. Would increasing from 10mg to 12.5 or 15 be unwise?
3. Will PCT be more difficult if I continue?
4. What other drawbacks are there to extending the current cycle?

Thanks bros!
 

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I have about another 7-10 days left on this 2 month cycle. Everything is going so smoothly, and I am progressing on lifts so fast, that I am super tempted to cruise through another bottle of LGD into a 3rd month... Thoughts?

Questions that come to mind...

1. Is testosterone suppressed more and more the longer you are on an LGD cycle? Or, is suppression primarily associated with the dosing?
2. Would increasing from 10mg to 12.5 or 15 be unwise?
3. Will PCT be more difficult if I continue?
4. What other drawbacks are there to extending the current cycle?

Thanks bros!
I would stop the cycle at 2 months; the more you stay on (suppressed) the better the chance you do permanent damage to the endocrine system.
 
Geoffr

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I would stop the cycle at 2 months; the more you stay on (suppressed) the better the chance you do permanent damage to the endocrine system.
I don’t know about perm damage being done, that’s sounds a little extreme but it all depends on how you feel, how many cycles you have done prior. What your bloods are currently at, how your pct is set up. Personally I would do 10-12 weeks and dose it up to 15mg but I have ran a few lgd cycles...
 
KetoPhysique

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I would stop the cycle at 2 months; the more you stay on (suppressed) the better the chance you do permanent damage to the endocrine system.
I don’t know about perm damage being done, that’s sounds a little extreme but it all depends on how you feel, how many cycles you have done prior. What your bloods are currently at, how your pct is set up. Personally I would do 10-12 weeks and dose it up to 15mg but I have ran a few lgd cycles...
Thanks for the feedback. I took the last dose of LGD this morning. I decided to go ahead with PCT since I have a family trip in 5 weeks, so the timing is better suited to stopping the LGD for now anyway. Will be taking the first dose of Tamoxifen Citrate starting tonight. 20mg per day for the first week, then 10mg per day for the following 3 weeks. Starting DAA and Laxogenin tonight and will be getting back to my other T boosting natural supps as well. I likely gained about 8-9 lbs of muscle at least, and managed to shred a little extra fat. The next time I do this, I will make sure I am not on the tail end of a minicut. I was reverse dieting for at least 2 and a half weeks during this process. Will get some progress pics posted later. I will also let you know how the PCT goes. Thanks again for all of the info!
 
KetoPhysique

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Tweaking the PCT a little... I began taking 20mg of Tamoxifen per day on Monday and by mid-day after the Wednesday dose I had to reevaluate my approach a bit. I was starting to get a little bit of a stinging/itching rash on my abdomen... Felt a bit out of sorts... extra annoyed by things in general... and began to see I was retaining more water than I wanted to. Plus, libido tanked (which is something that has NEVER happened with me before. Not fun at all). I have always been very in-tune with my body, and I know the current plan of straight Tamoxifen ED was just not feeling right.

After doing a bit of research this is how I am now planning to approach the PCT (feedback is definitely welcome).

Tamoxifen 20 EOD to finish out the first week. Then EOD @ 10 for the next two weeks followed by around 7.5 EOD for a 4th week.
Exemestane 12.5 EOD to finish out this week and through week 2. Then around 8 for the next week or two (depending on how I feel/react)
(These will taken on different days... ie. never both on the same day.)
Plus, DAA and other natural T Boosers.

In summary for PCT (revised)
Tamoxifen
Week 1 - 20 ED
Week 2 - 20 ED
Week 3 - 10 ED
Week 4 - 10 ED (maybe stay at 10... we'll see)

Exemestane
Week 1 - 12.5 EOD
Week 2 - 12.5 EOD
Week 3 - 8 EOD
Week 4 - 8 EOD

So far so good in the strength department. Still adding 5lbs or 2 reps per set on all my main lifts each day, compared to the previous week.
 
KetoPhysique

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Well, I made one last tweak just a couple days after my last past. The unusual rash went away, so I went back to the original plan. I am betting that the rash was just from a big shift in hormones since I took my first dose of Tamoxifen on the same day as my last dose of LGD. I'll remember to wait until the day after next time.

After adding the EOD dose of exemestane, the tanked libido was noticeably retuning after a few days. This also send to help with the fat gain I was beginning to notice after a week.

FYI - I will update the first post of this thread with the summary of everything I did.

I feel like overall, the cycle was a definite success. I added over 8lbs of lean mass with minimal side effects.

2 weeks after I stopped taking the LGD I could feel a difference in how fast I was recovering from my workouts. I actual began to feel a little soreness again. While on the LGD, I never was sore and recovered really fast. I have kept the strength gains, but notice a little loss in overall capacity.

I look forward to the next cycle! I plan to stack LGD with S4.
 

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