Liver Toxicity and Oral Steroids

[warlordwrug]

Where did this come from? I don't understand the logic behind it. There are medical studies showing aids patients and patients with life threatening diseases using orals like anadrol,dbol and anavar for extended periods of times(4 to 5 months). Without any major issues with thier liver,kidneys etc.Also I'm not talking about 16 or 17 idiots popping ds/phs while drinking excessive amounts of alcohol. With the right liver support I think orals can be used for 8+ weeks with no issues.

 

[UncleSarm]

Where did this come from? I don't understand the logic behind it. There are medical studies showing aids patients and patients with life threatening diseases using orals like anadrol,dbol and anavar for extended periods of times(4 to 5 months). Without any major issues with thier liver,kidneys etc.Also I'm not talking about 16 or 17 idiots popping ds/phs while drinking excessive amounts of alcohol. With the right liver support I think orals can be used for 8+ weeks with no issues.

What doses are they taking? I suspect that they are a lot lower than the doses taken for bodybuilding purposes.

 

[T-Bone]

Where did this come from? I don't understand the logic behind it. There are medical studies showing aids patients and patients with life threatening diseases using orals like anadrol,dbol and anavar for extended periods of times(4 to 5 months). Without any major issues with thier liver,kidneys etc.Also I'm not talking about 16 or 17 idiots popping ds/phs while drinking excessive amounts of alcohol. With the right liver support I think orals can be used for 8+ weeks with no issues.

LMAO ok....

http://www.ergo-log.com/designerliver.html

There are more cases of liver damage than "16 or 17 idiots popping ds/ph while drinking excessive amounts of alcohol."

 

[T-Bone]

What doses are they taking? I suspect that they are a lot lower than the doses taken for bodybuilding purposes.

Right, and you can't really compare FDA approved drugs to drugs sold as supplements manufactured overseas someplace in China.

 

[warlordwrug]

What doses are they taking? I suspect that they are a lot lower than the doses taken for bodybuilding purposes.

Majority of the studies for anadrol they were taking well over 100mg even up to 150mg

 

[warlordwrug]

LMAO ok....

http://www.ergo-log.com/designerliver.html

There are more cases of liver damage than "16 or 17 idiots popping ds/ph while drinking excessive amounts of alcohol."

I wasn't talking about 16 or 17 cases or incidents. Use common sense man I was talking about age. Majority of the people I've come across who abuse or have liver issues have been teenagers

 

[Dma378]

I wasn't talking about 16 or 17 cases or incidents. Use common sense man I was talking about age. Majority of the people I've come across who abuse or have liver issues have been teenagers

And what constituted liver issues?

 

[warlordwrug]

And what constituted liver issues?

High alt,ast and bilirubin levels

 

[Dma378]

High alt,ast and bilirubin levels

Those sound like smart teenagers doing bloodwork!!

My opinion is liver toxicity is highly overstated for short cycles.

 

[warlordwrug]

Those sound like smart teenagers doing bloodwork!!

My opinion is liver toxicity is highly overstated for short cycles.

What do you consider short?

 

[B5150]

High alt,ast and bilirubin levels

Those sound like smart teenagers doing bloodwork!!

My opinion is liver toxicity is highly overstated for short cycles.

I concur. That is signs of stress but not damage. A GGT is a better test for liver damage and or unhealthiness.

Elevated AST/ALT is indicative of a healthy functioning liver. Do blood work taking Tylenol or drinking (or simultaneously like most do for hangovers) and/or prescription drugs prescribed by a doctor and/or other non anabolic supplement. You'd be surprised.

I'm not saying they don't have the potential to cause harm as we know it can happen. Use and excessive use or abuse is a different thing.

 

[Dma378]

What do you consider short?

Relatively speaking, 12 weeks or less.

People
Pound their livers with booze and dope for decades consistently before failure or disease set in. Responsible moderate cycling of orals is nothing in comparison.

Now, there are other factors that are troublesome depending on dosage, duration and frequency. BP, lipids, etc.

But to think you're going to shut your liver down because of elevated values for a few weeks to me seems ridiculous.

I'm not in any way saying to not protect yourself or take precautions, just the severity I believe is overstated.

 

[brofessorx]

By all means, feel free to run superdrol at 20mg for 10 weeks.

 

[B5150]

I was a beta tester of Superdrol @50mg

Superdrol Dosing Schedule:
Days 1-4: 30mgs per day
Days 5-11: 40mgs per day
Days 12-20: 50mgs per day

 

[B5150]

By all means let's not let facts discourage people from having opinions. Opinions seem to perpetuate faster and farther and last much longer than facts.

Edit: There are of course cases that are outliers

 

[T-Bone]

OP do an experiment to prove your theory.

SD 40mg weeks 1-8
Msten 60mg weeks 8-12
M 1 alpha 60mg weeks 1-12

 

[Audioph1x]

I was a beta tester of Superdrol @50mg

Superdrol Dosing Schedule:
Days 1-4: 30mgs per day
Days 5-11: 40mgs per day
Days 12-20: 50mgs per day

What was that like?

 

[hamdysayed]

Is there is any charts etc determining how liver toxic compounds are or compare to alcohol intake etc?

 

[warlordwrug]

OP do an experiment to prove your theory.

SD 40mg weeks 1-8
Msten 60mg weeks 8-12
M 1 alpha 60mg weeks 1-12

I've already proved my theory,I've done cycles over 8 weeks longest being 16 weeks and my ast and alt have only been slightly elevated. Only major issues I've ever had was bp but I have a family history

 

[B5150]

I believe IMHO some people have organs that are more resilient. Just for giggles look at Kieth Richards, Ozzy Osborne, Willie Nelson and many of the old time drug and alcohol abusers. Theses guys are likely going to die of abuse related illness but my goodness their organs sure do work well.

To say they are harmless would be irresponsible. For my liver I have evidence that it works pretty damn well. Those AST and ALT numbers are actually a couple points lower than baseline.

Years before I was a abusing the hell out of my body drinking 12 to 18 ice beers several days a week with the occasional pint or 5th. That went on for about 2 years solid where before it was only weekends for the previous 5 or more years.

Then the years of crystal and cocaine abuse in my twenties that accompanied the usual weekend binge drinking. Oh let's not forget the 20 year weed habit and the occasional opiates. Ever see the color of ones urine after tweeking on an 1/8th of meth for 6 days? Liver and kidneys should have failed.

Why do some suffer ills from liver toxins and others not? I don't know. It's certainly not because I'm virtuous

 

[hamdysayed]

I believe IMHO some people have organs that are more resilient. Just for giggles look at Kieth Richards, Ozzy Osborne, Willie Nelson and many of the old time drug and alcohol abusers. Theses guys are likely going to die of abuse related illness but my goodness their organs sure do work well.

To say they are harmless would be irresponsible. For my liver I have evidence that it works pretty damn well. Those AST and ALT numbers are actually a couple points lower than baseline.

Years before I was a abusing the hell out of my body drinking 12 to 18 ice beers several days a week with the occasional pint or 5th. That went on for about 2 years solid where before it was only weekends for the previous 5 or more years.

Then the years of crystal and cocaine abuse in my twenties that accompanied the usual weekend binge drinking. Oh let's not forget the 20 year weed habit and the occasional opiates. Ever see the color of ones urine after tweeking on an 1/8th of meth for 6 days? Liver and kidneys should have failed.

Why do some suffer ills from liver toxins and others not? I don't know. It's certainly not because I'm virtuous

Oh $hitt u have been to the dark side I see.

 

[brofessorx]

My first methyl cycle was 1g of 4-androstenediol + decabol from ctd labs.

It contained 25mg hdrol, 10mg pheraplex, 10mg superdrol.
90 caps.
First 2 weeks I took two caps, last 2 weeks, 3 caps, 5th week 4 caps.

Zero liver support.

Animal stak2+nolva for pct.

One month later, I had a full panel of bloods done, everything was good. Cholesterol was ****lent.

This led to further abuse of oral methylated steroids.

Now always a week into any methyl I get massive heart burn an other signs associated with liver damage.

I don't get this from non methyl injectables.

Run oral methylated steroids responsibly. And use tudca an cycle assist.

 

[Dma378]

OP do an experiment to prove your theory.

SD 40mg weeks 1-8
Msten 60mg weeks 8-12
M 1 alpha 60mg weeks 1-12

Which negates the part of my comment of "responsible moderation".

 

[rascal14]

Moderation is the key with everything lol

Epistane 45mg for 6 weeks and hours of drinking for my prom party at the end of that cycle and I woke up feeling like a million bucks, clear pee, high appetite.

I was a bit dumber then lol

 

[T-Bone]

I've had problems even with so called mild oral AAS. 1,4 bold when a lot of you were just children I ran and had some significant liver problems and/or stress. First problem I had was with SD in 2005....First lack of appetite, than itchy skin, eyes turned yellow, than all my skin did, everything itched, couldn't smell food much less eat it without wanting to puke, lost about 60 pounds in under two months, sh it myself multiple times per day, confusion didn't know where I was..... All that. Anyway....

 

[hamdysayed]

I've had problems even with so called mild oral AAS. 1,4 bold when a lot of you were just children I ran and had some significant liver problems and/or stress. First problem I had was with SD in 2005....First lack of appetite, than itchy skin, eyes turned yellow, than all my skin did, everything itched, couldn't smell food much less eat it without wanting to puke, lost about 60 pounds in under two months, sh it myself multiple times per day, confusion didn't know where I was..... All that. Anyway....

Well damn...
I honestly believe genetics have to do with liver issues , some can handle it some cant.

 

[B5150]

I've had problems even with so called mild oral AAS. 1,4 bold when a lot of you were just children I ran and had some significant liver problems and/or stress. First problem I had was with SD in 2005....First lack of appetite, than itchy skin, eyes turned yellow, than all my skin did, everything itched, couldn't smell food much less eat it without wanting to puke, lost about 60 pounds in under two months, sh it myself multiple times per day, confusion didn't know where I was..... All that. Anyway....

I remember when you went through that. Was that DS or AX SD?

 

[Alan1]

Well dang, T-Bone, you've been through a lot with this stuff. I was just reading your thread from '07 titled "Least harsh legal steroid" and you mentioned urinating blood after just 5 days of M1T. Either your body has a "oh hell no I ain't putting up with ANY of this!" attitude toward any harsh PH/DS or that was some kind of meth-head brew M1T made with straight acetone and Drano.... yikes. Glad you made it through those experiences okay, though.

 

[criticalbench]

I concur. That is signs of stress but not damage. A GGT is a better test for liver damage and or unhealthiness.

DING DING DING.. GGT and Alk Phos.. stop telling me about your damn alt/ast for steroids..

Steroids cause cholestatic liver damage!!!

 

[T-Bone]

Well dang, T-Bone, you've been through a lot with this stuff. I was just reading your thread from '07 titled "Least harsh legal steroid" and you mentioned urinating blood after just 5 days of M1T. Either your body has a "oh hell no I ain't putting up with ANY of this!" attitude toward any harsh PH/DS or that was some kind of meth-head brew M1T made with straight acetone and Drano.... yikes. Glad you made it through those experiences okay, though.

That's one of the reasons I like DermaTrest so much. Ran it for 12 weeks without hardly a dent in my liver enzymes.

 

[T-Bone]

I remember when you went through that. Was that DS or AX SD?

It was AX SD.

 

[criticalbench]

T-Bone.. if i pissed blood like I think it was you mentioned.. pretty sure i'd faint. I don't mind blood at all.. I could bleed out my ass, or any other whole in my body.. but anything with my pee hole.. and my knees buckle lol