Liver safe options?

[JerichoG]

This may seem like a dumb question, but are there any cycles outside of just test that are liver safe? I have very early, compensated cirrhosis thanks to an ill spent youth. I haven’t had a drink in years and I have been hitting it hard at the gym. I have to use trt (test-c 200mg/wk) as my natural levels are in the double digits. I have just plateaued in a major way (4-5 days a week, good training plan). Can’t cut my last 7-8% of body fat (at 20 now), and gains have basically stopped. I’d like to be able to cycle something on top of my trt, but I can’t find any safe options. Thanks guys!

 

[Rad83]

Maybe some transdermal 7keto …?
Or something from Apex Alchemy @Renew1

 

[Renew1]

Maybe some transdermal 7keto …?
Or something from Apex Alchemy @Renew1

Thanks brother.

.... Honestly, I would be hesitant to recommend Anything, that wasn't Dr. approved, ATM.

 

[Rad83]

Thanks brother.

.... Honestly, I would be hesitant to recommend Anything, that wasn't Dr. approved, ATM.

Good point! ‘Upon further review’ I side with Renew …I shouldn’t have recommended anything…sorry OP !

 

[Jstrong20]

Have you tried upping the test? Big diffrence between 200mgs, 600mgs, 1000mgs, etc. I'm. Not recommending this because I'm not a dr and not sure what all med conditions you have. But if it was me and legal I'd just use more test and keep ralox on hand and have an ai as well.

 

[Hyde]

More steroids will not help you lose fat. Steroids do not “burn fat”. They signal greater nitrogen retention, to either build more & faster when in a caloric surplus, or retain more lean mass when in a deficit.

If you can’t get below ~20% bodyfat right now, it’s not your androgen level holding you back. 200/wk is a hefty TRT dose and easily enough to allow continual fat loss IF the diet supports that. I am on 180/wk right now and very slowly leaning out, because I am ultimately eating less than I need to maintain.

And if you are trying to actually build more muscle, you cannot appreciably do that without gaining weight - that means eating in a surplus, which certainly means you aren’t losing 8 more percent bodyfat.

If you’re around 20%, you are best served getting the fat off first via your diet, then adding more steroids when it’s time to build muscle - you will gain much better, and stay leaner, when you start much leaner.

Some compound considerations when it’s time to build muscle would be Primobolan, Masteron, or Deca, as well as increasing testosterone dosage.

 

[bell1986]

More steroids will not help you lose fat. Steroids do not “burn fat”. They signal greater nitrogen retention, to either build more & faster when in a caloric surplus, or retain more lean mass when in a deficit.

If you can’t get below ~20% bodyfat right now, it’s not your androgen level holding you back. 200/wk is a hefty TRT dose and easily enough to allow continual fat loss IF the diet supports that. I am on 180/wk right now and very slowly leaning out, because I am ultimately eating less than I need to maintain.

And if you are trying to actually build more muscle, you cannot appreciably do that without gaining weight - that means eating in a surplus, which certainly means you aren’t losing 8 more percent bodyfat.

If you’re around 20%, you are best served getting the fat off first via your diet, then adding more steroids when it’s time to build muscle - you will gain much better, and stay leaner, when you start much leaner.

Some compound considerations when it’s time to build muscle would be Primobolan, Masteron, or Deca, as well as increasing testosterone dosage.

I personally do this aswell.

I'm on trt 120mg a week and I just add in primobolan. Doesn't cause any issues at all on my bloodwork.

I do a 3:1 test primo. Primo for me personally is a powerful aromatase inhibitor. The only AI I actually tolerate tbh.

Recently I went up from 120mg to 200mg and added in 70mg of primo. It's a low dose but it's amazing the changes these offer.

I will run 200mg for a week and then raise it to 300mg test and 100mg of primo and that's what I use as my blast. I will run this for 8 weeks and then might just do a finisher of 500mg test and 170mg of primo. My e2 sits around 40 at this dose. I feel amazing and my body just quickly changes. Don't neglect your diet though. Get into a small surplus with good foods.

For the OP. I religiously get bloodwork done and test + Primo never impact my liver at all. I've seen my liver enzymes even go down. I run Tudca all year round though. I've read so much into tudca and it's just an incredible addition for anyone.

This might be a choice?

You must have been hammering your liver to cause cirrhosis at your age? If you don't mind me asking. Waa it alcohol fueled or using steroids?

 

[JerichoG]

I personally do this aswell.

I'm on trt 120mg a week and I just add in primobolan. Doesn't cause any issues at all on my bloodwork.

I do a 3:1 test primo. Primo for me personally is a powerful aromatase inhibitor. The only AI I actually tolerate tbh.

Recently I went up from 120mg to 200mg and added in 70mg of primo. It's a low dose but it's amazing the changes these offer.

I will run 200mg for a week and then raise it to 300mg test and 100mg of primo and that's what I use as my blast. I will run this for 8 weeks and then might just do a finisher of 500mg test and 170mg of primo. My e2 sits around 40 at this dose. I feel amazing and my body just quickly changes. Don't neglect your diet though. Get into a small surplus with good foods.

For the OP. I religiously get bloodwork done and test + Primo never impact my liver at all. I've seen my liver enzymes even go down. I run Tudca all year round though. I've read so much into tudca and it's just an incredible addition for anyone.

This might be a choice?

You must have been hammering your liver to cause cirrhosis at your age? If you don't mind me asking. Waa it alcohol fueled or using steroids?

I don’t mind you asking at all—it was 100% booze. I am definitely one of those proverbial tales. I’m lucky, in a way: I don’t have elevated enzymes, just low platelets and low grade anaemia. I should have added that I just went from 140 to 200 because I was still showing in the low normal range. Maybe I just need to wait this out for longer and do a heavy duty deficit diet. I also really need to get a more accurate BMI than the crappy gym scale thing.

 

[Smont]

More steroids will not help you lose fat. Steroids do not “burn fat”. They signal greater nitrogen retention, to either build more & faster when in a caloric surplus, or retain more lean mass when in a deficit.

If you can’t get below ~20% bodyfat right now, it’s not your androgen level holding you back. 200/wk is a hefty TRT dose and easily enough to allow continual fat loss IF the diet supports that. I am on 180/wk right now and very slowly leaning out, because I am ultimately eating less than I need to maintain.

And if you are trying to actually build more muscle, you cannot appreciably do that without gaining weight - that means eating in a surplus, which certainly means you aren’t losing 8 more percent bodyfat.

If you’re around 20%, you are best served getting the fat off first via your diet, then adding more steroids when it’s time to build muscle - you will gain much better, and stay leaner, when you start much leaner.

Some compound considerations when it’s time to build muscle would be Primobolan, Masteron, or Deca, as well as increasing testosterone dosage.

This

 

[Smont]

I don’t mind you asking at all—it was 100% booze. I am definitely one of those proverbial tales. I’m lucky, in a way: I don’t have elevated enzymes, just low platelets and low grade anaemia. I should have added that I just went from 140 to 200 because I was still showing in the low normal range. Maybe I just need to wait this out for longer and do a heavy duty deficit diet. I also really need to get a more accurate BMI than the crappy gym scale thing.

No1 needs a bmi scale, the mirror is the most accurate scale you can use. Pick the same mirror, same lighting and it will never lie.

I like to tell ppl the simplest way to do things and if your bulking, once you loose your abs you know its time to stop bulking. Fat loss is like 90% diet and cardio and steroids do very little to help. They're better at making you gain weight.
Even fat burners and fat loss drugs are only minimal help.

Im currently avoiding cycles for injuries and i need to tighten up a bit. Im using 175 test e and 60mg of deca and thats my cutting cycle for now. Any gear over trt will help hold muscle. Just be prepared to realize that much of what you think to be muscle is probably A mixture of muscle fat and water so dont go into a panic because shrinking and going flat are a part of the fatloss process. Most ppl quit before they get past that point.And that's why they get stuck in the never ending loop of bulking when they're fat and stopping their cuts before their lean. ive been there several times.

 

[bell1986]

I don’t mind you asking at all—it was 100% booze. I am definitely one of those proverbial tales. I’m lucky, in a way: I don’t have elevated enzymes, just low platelets and low grade anaemia. I should have added that I just went from 140 to 200 because I was still showing in the low normal range. Maybe I just need to wait this out for longer and do a heavy duty deficit diet. I also really need to get a more accurate BMI than the crappy gym scale thing.

Is your liver currently on the mend? No harm adding in some Tudca.

I've had issues with alcohol in the past. I've also hammered my liver also and it's always bounced back. An amazing organ. It's a dreadful and amazing drug! (Alcohol). I have a genetic defect that makes me feel much better during a hangover. I still can get a smelly hangover don't get me wrong but.. My brain works unbelievably well. My anxiety is non existent and I have an insane libido. I need to be careful with alcohol and not drop back into old habits.

Are you on trt currently? I am. It's took me a long time to get it perfect. I've crashed my estrogen a few times and also had it sky high. Both states are horrible. Had gyno that I had to use raloxifene to fix. Just a nightmare of a time on trt. I'm in a good place now. Thanks to Dim + Calcium D Glucarate + Primobolan. That took a long time to dial these in also.

Maybe just do a cut and go a little harder? Try like a 800 calorie deficit and do that for a month and see how you look?

When I want to cut I just do OMAD one meal a day. I fast all day and just have 2500 calories at night and I'm good. Still feels like I'm getting alot of food and not doing small meals that make you ravenous. I've even tried to bulk on OMAD. 4000+ calories and I gained. Zero muscle lol. Absolutely useless for growth. Was nice just to be able to binge like crazy.

Good luck and I hope you make a full recovery.

 

[Dustin07]

When I want to cut I just do OMAD one meal a day. I fast all day and just have 2500 calories at night and I'm good. Still feels like I'm getting alot of food and not doing small meals that make you ravenous.

When you run IF like that, do you lift fasted then? I have LOVED fasting the past 18 months or so but I always work it into my rest days.

I've had issues with alcohol in the past. I've also hammered my liver also and it's always bounced back. An amazing organ. It's a dreadful and amazing drug! (Alcohol). I have a genetic defect that makes me feel much better during a hangover. I still can get a smelly hangover don't get me wrong but.. My brain works unbelievably well. My anxiety is non existent and I have an insane libido.

I can relate to this and have to be careful for the same reason. I won't touch THC, I can't stand the stuff. makes me feel dumb. But alcohol seems to boost my productivity, creativity, problem solving skills, lower anxiety, stress, etc and I can unfortunately drink quite a bit without issues so it's something I have to actually set aside or I'd easily drink daily too much.

 

[Smont]

.

When you run IF like that, do you lift fasted then? I have LOVED fasting the past 18 months or so but I always work it into my rest days.



I can relate to this and have to be careful for the same reason. I won't touch THC, I can't stand the stuff. makes me feel dumb. But alcohol seems to boost my productivity, creativity, problem solving skills, lower anxiety, stress, etc and I can unfortunately drink quite a bit without issues so it's something I have to actually set aside or I'd easily drink daily too much.

Thats how i ended up having 30 drinks a day. I was super functional for a long time but 6 turned to 10 to 20 real fast. Even then i was still better at some things drunk and eventually i wasnt. I do enjoy thc, but i enjoy it when im alone at night doing non imporntant tasks or watching tv. It does the opposite of what alcohol does for me and makes We want to stay home and do nothing. So that's the positive effect for me lol.

 

[bell1986]

.
Thats how i ended up having 30 drinks a day. I was super functional for a long time but 6 turned to 10 to 20 real fast. Even then i was still better at some things drunk and eventually i wasnt. I do enjoy thc, but i enjoy it when im alone at night doing non imporntant tasks or watching tv. It does the opposite of what alcohol does for me and makes We want to stay home and do nothing. So that's the positive effect for me lol.

How much alcohol were you putting away a day? Was it spirits/Wine etc?

I still drink but it will be once every 2 weeks and I will do 2 glasses of wine (Large Glasses lol). I do have the odd blow out now and again though.

 

[Smont]

How much alcohol were you putting away a day? Was it spirits/Wine etc?

I still drink but it will be once every 2 weeks and I will do 2 glasses of wine (Large Glasses lol). I do have the odd blow out now and again though.

A regular day after work i would have 20-30 drinks 4am till the bar closed. I mostly drank shots and chased them with draft beer. If i went out to dinner or stayed home with a chick it might be magnum of wine after however many drinks i already had. I pretty much drank everything. My family also ownd a restruant so i could drink there free. Id go through phases. Jack danials for a few months, then titos, when fireball came out i was drinking a bottle a day sometimes. I always had a drink in my hand after work till i passed out.

No, i quit 5 years ago march 9th. I took 2 weeks off work and sat in a room till it passed. I was accidently served a jack and ginger a few years ago and i took a sip and i freaked out for a breif seccond and then i kinda realized..... i dont want this. So i had a water and left shortly after but it was fine. I bartended a few times since i quit and i would make the drink special and take a drop to make sure the flavor was on point and im talking like a raindrop size amount.

I got lucky, i never felt a drink craving because i always had one in my hand. So me quiting was the first time in years i went more then 24hrs without a drink and i finally felt the sick. I was like holy ****, i been half sick for 10 years, half energy, and on top i was neglecting my life and family. Im all or nothing. I went all in. Im 100% confident i could have a beer right now. But i wont, because im all or nothing, 1 will be ok thursday, but next weekend il have 2. After a month il tell myself its ok to stop at the bar after work and within a year il be a neglectful fukin looser again. So while i never will say that i know i wont slip up, its highly unlikely because too many things and ppl are too important to me

 

[bell1986]

A regular day after work i would have 20-30 drinks 4am till the bar closed. I mostly drank shots and chased them with draft beer. If i went out to dinner or stayed home with a chick it might be magnum of wine after however many drinks i already had. I pretty much drank everything. My family also ownd a restruant so i could drink there free. Id go through phases. Jack danials for a few months, then titos, when fireball came out i was drinking a bottle a day sometimes. I always had a drink in my hand after work till i passed out.

No, i quit 5 years ago march 9th. I took 2 weeks off work and sat in a room till it passed. I was accidently served a jack and ginger a few years ago and i took a sip and i freaked out for a breif seccond and then i kinda realized..... i dont want this. So i had a water and left shortly after but it was fine. I bartended a few times since i quit and i would make the drink special and take a drop to make sure the flavor was on point and im talking like a raindrop size amount.

I got lucky, i never felt a drink craving because i always had one in my hand. So me quiting was the first time in years i went more then 24hrs without a drink and i finally felt the sick. I was like holy ****, i been half sick for 10 years, half energy, and on top i was neglecting my life and family. Im all or nothing. I went all in. Im 100% confident i could have a beer right now. But i wont, because im all or nothing, 1 will be ok thursday, but next weekend il have 2. After a month il tell myself its ok to stop at the bar after work and within a year il be a neglectful fukin looser again. So while i never will say that i know i wont slip up, its highly unlikely because too many things and ppl are too important to me

Hey.

I very much appreciate you being so honest with me. That takes alot to type all this out. Be proud of yourself dude. Your trying your best to get away from that destructive life. I've had alcohol issues and I know it isn't easy.

I was losing friends and family with my alcohol use also. I lost my driving licence and even crashed a work vehicle that I honestly shouldn't have survived. I went to view the vehicle and the guy standing says. You were in that? I said yes. He says. When that vehicle came in I thought that the driver was 100% dead. How in the hell did you survive that?

I've woke up in police cells a couple times also.

I still have some wine now and again. I will always crave alcohol. It's manageable now thankfully. I only will drink wine and never touch a spirit again. I done a genetic test and honestly my genes had numerous markers saying I am at high risk of being an alcoholic. I know that it's built into my dna. Sounds stupid but you know how strong that urge is.

So how is your body holding up? Is your liver pretty hammered? The liver is an amazing organ so hopefully it will go into repair mode. If your kidneys were dying then I would say. Your screwed in terms of healing but the liver can recover.

What's your future plans? Are you still in employment?

If you want to chat dude. Just message me. Even if your want to share your WhatsApp etc. I'm more than happy to chat and help you along. More than happy.

Always tell yourself. Those bad days weren't you. It was a alcohol fueled you.

Chin up and keep fighting

 

[Smont]

Hey.

I very much appreciate you being so honest with me. That takes alot to type all this out. Be proud of yourself dude. Your trying your best to get away from that destructive life. I've had alcohol issues and I know it isn't easy.

I was losing friends and family with my alcohol use also. I lost my driving licence and even crashed a work vehicle that I honestly shouldn't have survived. I went to view the vehicle and the guy standing says. You were in that? I said yes. He says. When that vehicle came in I thought that the driver was 100% dead. How in the hell did you survive that?

I've woke up in police cells a couple times also.

I still have some wine now and again. I will always crave alcohol. It's manageable now thankfully. I only will drink wine and never touch a spirit again. I done a genetic test and honestly my genes had numerous markers saying I am at high risk of being an alcoholic. I know that it's built into my dna. Sounds stupid but you know how strong that urge is.

So how is your body holding up? Is your liver pretty hammered? The liver is an amazing organ so hopefully it will go into repair mode. If your kidneys were dying then I would say. Your screwed in terms of healing but the liver can recover.

What's your future plans? Are you still in employment?

If you want to chat dude. Just message me. Even if your want to share your WhatsApp etc. I'm more than happy to chat and help you along. More than happy.

Always tell yourself. Those bad days weren't you. It was a alcohol fueled you.

Chin up and keep fighting

Im good man, i quit 5 years ago. I have no detectable damage at all. I had elevated liver enzymes for a few months after i quit if memory serves me correct but im pretty sure i hit the genetic lottery cus i have friends who drank themselves to death drinking less. I wish i was Exaggerating.