liver damage

stl123 said:
No one said just run a search here.:fool2: Search everywhere!! Searching is absolutely researching. WTF else would you call it there smart guy? What you are doing, asking people to look shiit up for you, is not research!!!
All you have done in this thread is argue with everyone that is trying to give you answers. If you already know (or think you know it all) then why are you here asking these questions?:afro:
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I have noticed that very few people here actually have a knowledge base when it comes to steroids, so in fact they stoop to calling names. It is very mature. Thier is not research to be had, their is no study that exists to my knowledge of long term liver damage that exists in steroid users. I mean jesus, no one here knows much about medicinal anadrol, how much research have any of you done, that is probably the most relevant starting point when discussing the liver.
 
Cancer killed 550,000+ Americans in 2008 alone.

We can't prove what caused cancer in these people; we can only determine risk factors because we know science. We know that when this happens to your body, this injury will probably result.

In this case, we know that methylated compounds react adversely to our liver's health. Enzyme tests confirm that.

It is hard to argue that wind doesn't exist when you can see the trees rustling.
 
WeightShift said:
Cancer killed 550,000+ Americans in 2008 alone.

We can't prove what caused cancer in these people; we can only determine risk factors because we know science. We know that when this happens to your body, this injury will probably result.

In this case, we know that methylated compounds react adversely to our liver's health. Enzyme tests confirm that.

It is hard to argue that wind doesn't exist when you can see the trees rustling.
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Agree 100%

It suffices IMO to know that there is risk to the liver when taking PH/Steroids. IMHO, I don't need any more research than that to know that I should use liver protection supps when I run a cycle.

And if there hasn't been a whole lot of cases documented about liver failure resulting from steroid use, maybe it's because bbs do their research before hand and they know to take liver-protecting supps throughout their cycle!

IMHO if you take your liver-protecting supps, don't overdose on the PH/steroid and give yourself 2-3 months between cycles, you should be fine. And I wouldn't go out drinking while on a cycle, that's for sure!
 
whats worse on your liver...people that take 4 tylenol a day everyday or someone taking 30mg superdrol for 4 weeks...
 
WeightShift said:
Cancer killed 550,000+ Americans in 2008 alone.

We can't prove what caused cancer in these people; we can only determine risk factors because we know science. We know that when this happens to your body, this injury will probably result.

In this case, we know that methylated compounds react adversely to our liver's health. Enzyme tests confirm that.

It is hard to argue that wind doesn't exist when you can see the trees rustling.
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Agree!
And I know JCP2 from other boards and he is a vet that knows his stuff.(if in fact it is the same JCP2 and I think it is)
 
briging back J's topic...I'd love to see Trauma's write up...

And a lot of you guys' need to chill out...he's asking a legitimate question...
 
dg806 said:
Agree!
And I know JCP2 from other boards and he is a vet that knows his stuff.(if in fact it is the same JCP2 and I think it is)
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I never bring up other boards on here, most of the guys here were 12 and 13 when this community was at its best. One thing is i have been privledged to talk to some docs, some real bright people, and tons and tons of real world experience on myself and friends and just people on the boards.
Thier are some bright guys here but they are not the end all be all, and that is how alot of people look at it. I also want to say i have been clean for 5-6 years at this point, but still find this **** interesting.


Maybe i need to put my american flag avatar back, lol, that is how most know me.
 
Long story short, Deca was my preference, when my source dried up I tried some OTC prohormones. I was unaware of "methyl" anything. The last OTC I had taken was 1-TU by Nutrex and that was in 2004. Anyways, I stacked 2 of these products together which had a total of like 5 or 6 methyl compounds in them and my ALT count went all the way up to 606. Normal is, I think, 45-65. It took a while for them to return to normal to, about 3-4 months. The liver is a resilient organ and can heal its self many times over but I learned my lesson. I didn't show any physical problems either. No yellowing, no coughing up blood, no pains, nothing. I got blood work done at my job for my yearly physical, that was how I found out.
 
I pat lots of attention to steroids and honestly the only case I know of that could be steroids is superstar billy grahm and he to dianabol I beleive pretty much 20 years straight and he also used street drugs a lot so thats not even a real relible case I actually dont belive steroids have ever been completly tied to liver failure at the very worst a reasonable does would problly be about like drinking a pint of whisky and you could proably do that everyday for 10 years and be alright if it came down to it I've talked to experts and they said there hard on your liver but really havent been tied to liver faliure.
 
If you pre load liver support, don't drink in pre load phase, the cycle, or pct and don't go above recommended doses you should provide sufficient protection to the liver.

Of course you always hear of horror stories where someone pops the pills like candy, no liver support and then decides to go drinking.
 
futurepilot said:
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I would go out on a limb and say this guy was either lying, or had some kind of underlying issue. Steroids have been around a long time, i would be a little skeptical of using something as research that was the "first time ever".
 
jcp2 said:
I would go out on a limb and say this guy was either lying, or had some kind of underlying issue. Steroids have been around a long time, i would be a little skeptical of using something as research that was the "first time ever".
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i cant imagine that the kid would have any reason to lie. Just as reference he was using "stanozolol (40 mg/d" as little as 6mg's has been shown to cause a 30% increase in bad cholesterol, and the same reduction in good cholesterol.
 
jcp2 said:
What the **** is mestasteron, it sounds in the ballpark of methylated tren. Methylated tren is something that can be made, but is so toxic it would be stupid to use.
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the first one sepecifically mentions superdrol, and in the second "Methasteron" = superdrol.
 
I am curious about the long term affects of the occasional high liver enzymes that we put our bodies through. Most all of us know what we need to do to help keep the levels down (or not too high), but what will happen to the liver years down the road after being strained a couple times a year?

I ask because my 60 year old uncle has cirrhosis of the liver now. He has had high enzyme problems (go up and then return to normal) since he was in his 30s (not for sure why since he doesn't drink or take any meds).
 
futurepilot said:
i cant imagine that the kid would have any reason to lie. Just as reference he was using "stanozolol (40 mg/d" as little as 6mg's has been shown to cause a 30% increase in bad cholesterol, and the same reduction in good cholesterol.
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Yeah, i know, i have seen those studies. i was talking about the fact that it was the first time that it has ever happened according to the last two lines in the study. Since the drugs he was on have been used by millions, i would assume it was some issue that make him succeptable to the problem or his past medical history included other things that were not mentioned.
 
One of the reasons i wrote this thread was due to the fact that i have quite a bit of history with steroid users, many years on the boards, many years of knowing users. I do not know of anyone can i think of off the top of my head that has had a liver issue from illlegal steroids. Yet every 150 lb kid on here is popping superdrol and god knows what with the hopes that some liver supplement is going to make every thing OK. If you look at the replies on this thread, people don't even know the basics of oral steroids, the don't know any of the history of these drugs. All they know is what they have been told, i doubt any of them except a select few have ever been to pubmed. FP, if the study about Superdrol is true, how can anyone recommend it, even with some kind of liver protectant.
 
Missing the Point

futurepilot said:
i cant imagine that the kid would have any reason to lie. Just as reference he was using "stanozolol (40 mg/d" as little as 6mg's has been shown to cause a 30% increase in bad cholesterol, and the same reduction in good cholesterol.
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I think your missing the point its not about what he was taking but maybe how long he was taking it and it says nothing of taking liver protectors if he wasnt taking liver protectors you can bet the length of time on didnt matter either as he probably did very little research if any at all but I would like to commend your research techniques your on of the more on the ball types here good work. :)

One last observation the medical community is less than expert in steroid usage and proactive and active protection of the body when using. I have a 1984 PDR that states the use of anabolic steroids does not help athletes. This book is the bible of doctors when prescribing meds.
 
samva777 said:
I have a 1984 PDR that states the use of anabolic steroids does not help athletes. This book is the bible of doctors when prescribing meds.
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Most people do not know that it took the medical community until the 80s to admit that steroids did help performance.
 
jcp2 said:
FP, if the study about Superdrol is true, how can anyone recommend it, even with some kind of liver protectant.
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In the full text it lays out one of the kids cycle. It was, if I remember correctly, 20mgs SD for 6wks. It does not mention liver protectants, but thats why 'most' people will only recomend 10-20mgs for at max 3 wks.

samva777 said:
I think your missing the point its not about what he was taking but maybe how long he was taking it and it says nothing of taking liver protectors if he wasnt taking liver protectors you can bet the length of time on didnt matter either as he probably did very little research if any at all but I would like to commend your research techniques your on of the more on the ball types here good work. :)
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Agreed, to me its more a cautionary tale perhaps, less a definitive scientific study.

And thank you, I try to talk out my ass as little as possible :lol:
 
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