Liver cleanse
- Thread starter matt8483
- Start date
Driven2lift
Legend
Another TUDCA vote.
BeastFitness
Banned
Looking at the basic anatomy and physiology of the liver and what current research is coming out, I've seen promising research on R-ALA, NAC, milk thistle, and CoQ10 (those being the top liver aids)
BeastFitness
Banned
I've seen the same man!
Afi140
Legend
Liv52 is a joke. Here is coopers reasoning if you don't believe me
Quote Originally Posted by jgntyce View Post
Any first hand knowledge as to why Liv 52 is "garbage"? poor ingredients? bad side effects? I am curious to know.
Coop- It's underdosed and the "studies" are all published in bottom of the barrel journals that accept any submitted papers
Quote Originally Posted by jgntyce View Post
Any first hand knowledge as to why Liv 52 is "garbage"? poor ingredients? bad side effects? I am curious to know.
Coop- It's underdosed and the "studies" are all published in bottom of the barrel journals that accept any submitted papers
Hossam
New member
i have been using it with heavy AS cycles for long time and my liver is excellent
including Dbol for 3 month at 150 Mg a day
i know personally some people with virus C , Liv52 kept thier liver functioning at 80% for years until Sovaldi arrived
i understand that you are trying to sell your products, but with all due respect do not post wrong information
about a product that has been used for years by millions of people successfully
BeastFitness
Banned
Pretty much this. I'm all for supporting a product of a company you work for but no need to bash others
Afi140
Legend
Lol. I too believed in bro science at one time. I had ast/alt levels in the hundreds for a few months when I was uninformed; I previously bought into the hype of liv52.
To each his own. I am not selling anything. However, I am looking objectively at the studies and evidence. look at the label-Look at the journals they cite. No extract percentages and journals that have zero credibility in the academic realm.
To each his own. I am not selling anything. However, I am looking objectively at the studies and evidence. look at the label-Look at the journals they cite. No extract percentages and journals that have zero credibility in the academic realm.
Hossam
New member
did you try it with AS? or do you know someone who did?
did you read the studies behind it?Invalid Link Removed
SaluteTheSig
New member
Any link in particular that would debunk the proposed efficacy of LiverCare/Liv.52? I'm all for empirical research as well, however, most of what I've read thus far are people's opinions
Afi140
Legend
Liv 52 is a herbal preparation which is supposed to have protective effects on the liver. It is often prescribed in liver diseases.
The website of the Himalaya Drug Company which manufactures the product sites several "Scientific Studies". Many of them were published in their own in-house publications and it is doubtful if they went through a rigorous peer review process. In any case the conflict of interest is obvious. Some, however, have been published in indexed journals and I had a look at two of the most impressive ones:
Efficacy of an indigenous compound preparation Liv.52 in acute viral hepatitis – A double-blind study
Sama, S.K., Krishnamurthy, L., Ramachandran, K. and Krishnan Lal, All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Ansari Nagar, New Delhi, Indian Journal of Medical Research (1976): 5, 738.
They excluded sick patients to begin with: "Children below ten and adults above forty were excluded from the trial. Patients in whom there was a rapid deterioration of liver functions, or signs of precoma and/or bleeding tendencies were dropped from the trial and regarded as failures."
Naturally all the patients recovered because they dropped from the study any patient who deteriorated. They report that the bilirubin dropped faster in the patients on Liv 52 but "the total recovery, as evidenced by the normalisation of biochemical parameters especially pyruvic transaminase took more or less the same time in the two sets of patients."
In summary, it made no difference to the outcome.
2. Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1991;40(2):189-91.
Effect of Liv.52, a herbal preparation, on absorption and metabolism of ethanol in humans.
Chauhan BL, Kulkarni RD.
Source
R and D Centre, Himalaya Drug Co., Bombay, India.
Abstract
In 8 social drinkers, the effect of a single dose of Liv.52 or placebo on ethanol absorption has been studied after ingestion of 30 ml whisky in 5 min. The t1/2 absorption with Liv.52 was 3.62 min, significantly less than after placebo, 6.29 min. The peak concentration after Liv.52 (49.9 mg.100 ml-1) was significantly higher than with placebo (40.5 mg.100 ml-1). Whisky 120 ml consumed by regular alcohol users in 1 h, before and following 15 days of Liv.52 treatment produced significantly higher ethanol levels at 2, 3 and 4 h and significantly lower acetaldehyde levels at 3 and 4 h after Liv.52 treatment. Liv.52 enhanced the rate of absorption of ethanol and rapidly reduced acetaldehyde levels, which may explain its hepatoprotective effect on ethanol-induced liver damage.
PMID: 2065700 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Note here that this paper is from the Company R&D center. There is an obvious conflict of interest. We cannot expect them to have done an unbiased study. They have not mentioned the P values for the statistical analysis but the chances of demonstrating a significant difference using "8 social drinkers" seem negligible.
The website of the Himalaya Drug Company which manufactures the product sites several "Scientific Studies". Many of them were published in their own in-house publications and it is doubtful if they went through a rigorous peer review process. In any case the conflict of interest is obvious. Some, however, have been published in indexed journals and I had a look at two of the most impressive ones:
Efficacy of an indigenous compound preparation Liv.52 in acute viral hepatitis – A double-blind study
Sama, S.K., Krishnamurthy, L., Ramachandran, K. and Krishnan Lal, All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Ansari Nagar, New Delhi, Indian Journal of Medical Research (1976): 5, 738.
They excluded sick patients to begin with: "Children below ten and adults above forty were excluded from the trial. Patients in whom there was a rapid deterioration of liver functions, or signs of precoma and/or bleeding tendencies were dropped from the trial and regarded as failures."
Naturally all the patients recovered because they dropped from the study any patient who deteriorated. They report that the bilirubin dropped faster in the patients on Liv 52 but "the total recovery, as evidenced by the normalisation of biochemical parameters especially pyruvic transaminase took more or less the same time in the two sets of patients."
In summary, it made no difference to the outcome.
2. Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1991;40(2):189-91.
Effect of Liv.52, a herbal preparation, on absorption and metabolism of ethanol in humans.
Chauhan BL, Kulkarni RD.
Source
R and D Centre, Himalaya Drug Co., Bombay, India.
Abstract
In 8 social drinkers, the effect of a single dose of Liv.52 or placebo on ethanol absorption has been studied after ingestion of 30 ml whisky in 5 min. The t1/2 absorption with Liv.52 was 3.62 min, significantly less than after placebo, 6.29 min. The peak concentration after Liv.52 (49.9 mg.100 ml-1) was significantly higher than with placebo (40.5 mg.100 ml-1). Whisky 120 ml consumed by regular alcohol users in 1 h, before and following 15 days of Liv.52 treatment produced significantly higher ethanol levels at 2, 3 and 4 h and significantly lower acetaldehyde levels at 3 and 4 h after Liv.52 treatment. Liv.52 enhanced the rate of absorption of ethanol and rapidly reduced acetaldehyde levels, which may explain its hepatoprotective effect on ethanol-induced liver damage.
PMID: 2065700 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Note here that this paper is from the Company R&D center. There is an obvious conflict of interest. We cannot expect them to have done an unbiased study. They have not mentioned the P values for the statistical analysis but the chances of demonstrating a significant difference using "8 social drinkers" seem negligible.
Afi140
Legend
Any link in particular that would debunk the proposed efficacy of LiverCare/Liv.52? I'm all for empirical research as well, however, most of what I've read thus far are people's opinions
A quick search/research will yield varying results and varying degrees of why liv52 is a joke. It doesn't take long to see through the smokescreen. But hey-there are people that still think the earth is flat so it doesn't surprise me there are people still taking liv52.
T-Bone
Banned
But the advertisement said it was good?. Are you saying advertisements are trying to fool me or something?. That's just crazy talk!.