Little help? First 8 weeks prohormone cycle with high tech pharmaceuticals decabolin & 1testosterone

yepes

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Hi,

I figured trying this stack. 8 weeks high tech pharmaceuticals deca and 1 testo. I have some supps on my locker and I was thinking about pct and do I have to run something support stuff with this stack.

I was thinking running black lion research viron or something and for pct maybe arimistane and daa max. Any thoughts? Should i start this pct before cycle is over? Im just playing it safe even this stuff probably doesn't even need pct.
 

bigthug

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You don't need support supps for this cycle since these prohormones are not methylated it would be good to trow some 4-andro in there as a testerone base for the libidos sake and yes you can use arimistane with a test booster for pct but nolvadex would be better
 

dvw

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Use a SERM like Clomid,nolvedex,torem for pct. If you want to use herbal supplement pct use CEL mtest with iconic sustain alpha. That's a damn good herbal pct
 
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Fly_boy

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You don't need support supps for this cycle since these prohormones are not methylated it would be good to trow some 4-andro in there as a testerone base for the libidos sake and yes you can use arimistane with a test booster for pct but nolvadex would be better
I slightly disagree with not needing cycle support. The West Texas A&M study On 1-DHEA showed elevated AST and Alk Phost levels after 4 weeks. Since it’s not methylated it may not be AS harsh on your liver but it still has to be processed through your liver. It won’t hurt to have some liver/cycle support in there.
 

bigthug

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I slightly disagree with not needing cycle support. The West Texas A&M study On 1-DHEA showed elevated AST and Alk Phost levels after 4 weeks. Since it’s not methylated it may not be AS harsh on your liver but it still has to be processed through your liver. It won’t hurt to have some liver/cycle support in there.
Yes of course if you have the money for support supplements or feel paranoid about your liver it can't hurt but I never spend my my money on support supps I just stay away from alcohol and drink plenty of water
 
StarScream66

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You could try IronManLabs Cycle Support. It has all the ingredients you need to support your liver, cholesterol blood pressure & kidneys and more. Alternately, there is Competitive Edge Labs Cycle Assist which has a similar ingredient profile and does the same job.
 
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50Magnum

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how is the hi tech decabolin? I heard the 19 nor dhea don't really absorb well in the body compared to 4 dhea and 1 dhea.
 
StarScream66

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how is the hi tech decabolin? I heard the 19 nor dhea don't really absorb well in the body compared to 4 dhea and 1 dhea.
No reason why it shouldn't be just as orally bioavailable. Hi Tech adds an ester to it and DHB from grapefruit juice to help it bypass the liver.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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No reason why it shouldn't be just as orally bioavailable. Hi Tech adds an ester to it and DHB from grapefruit juice to help it bypass the liver.
it doesnt convert for shi7.. it dont matter how well you can deliver it if you cant convert it. it was junk when it was a 1 step PH and now its that much worse. dont waste money on this one as it is about as worthless as DHEA for raising test.
 
StarScream66

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it doesnt convert for shi7.. it dont matter how well you can deliver it if you cant convert it. it was junk when it was a 1 step PH and now its that much worse. dont waste money on this one as it is about as worthless as DHEA for raising test.
I mean, 1DHEA makes a pretty significant conversion, so I don't know why 19nor-DHEA wouldn't be the same. Sure, it's not going to be like Deca, but it should be decent. The only problem is it will also convert to norandrostenedione which isn't a great substance to you would want to be using.

 
xR1pp3Rx

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the thing you are missing here is that each hormone gets converted via its own enzymes. 19nor might be a wonder drug, if the body had ample amounts of the enzyme it needs to convert this into a usable nor test. it does not.
 
StarScream66

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the thing you are missing here is that each hormone gets converted via its own enzymes. 19nor might be a wonder drug, if the body had ample amounts of the enzyme it needs to convert this into a usable nor test. it does not.
No, I completely understand that. It's a two step enzyme conversion into it's parent hormone, nandrolone. But, the only study on any of the *DHEA substances, which was on 1DHEA, showed it to be quite effective. Unless there have been more studies since that article came out.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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just because 1andro is effective, means that all other DHEAs are effective? just to be clear, are you referencing the Texas A&M study with 1andro? were the football players gained roughly 8lbs in 60days?

i skimmed through your article you DMed me... just to add to my position you stated that a certain PH would act just like nilevar.... its kinda the same thing.. there are prized AAS's and crappy ones no one uses. 19andros are among the worst PHs out there.. they just dont work in viva. thus no one is using them except the poor guys who follow the marketing tactics of PH peddlers.
 
StarScream66

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just because 1andro is effective, means that all other DHEAs are effective? just to be clear, are you referencing the Texas A&M study with 1andro? were the football players gained roughly 8lbs in 60days?

i skimmed through your article you DMed me... just to add to my position you stated that a certain PH would act just like nilevar.... its kinda the same thing.. there are prized AAS's and crappy ones no one uses. 19andros are among the worst PHs out there.. they just dont work in viva. thus no one is using them except the poor guys who follow the marketing tactics of PH peddlers.
Well, I mean what's your source for saying 19nors are some of the "worst" out there? I don't know that all DHEAs act the same in the body, but in theory they should as they're all going through the same enzymatic conversion to get to the final product. Not to mention, the molecule itself is a 4 carbon atom in a steroid formation, so the molecule itself could potentially be anabolic.

I'll mention again (paging @Renew1 ) that 4DHEA's convert to both androstenediol and androstenedione and one study showed androstenedione actually caused muscle wasting. But, AFAIK, the Texas A&M study on 1DHEA is the only study on any of the DHEA pre-precursor drugs out there, so it's the only one that can be used as a reference point when talking about these compounds.
 
BloodManor

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I would return those and get dmz from VL instead and get some clomid to pct.
Way better gains for a cheaper price
 
xR1pp3Rx

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Well, I mean what's your source for saying 19nors are some of the "worst" out there? I don't know that all DHEAs act the same in the body, but in theory they should as they're all going through the same enzymatic conversion to get to the final product. Not to mention, the molecule itself is a 4 carbon atom in a steroid formation, so the molecule itself could potentially be anabolic.

I'll mention again (paging @Renew1 ) that 4DHEA's convert to both androstenediol and androstenedione and one study showed androstenedione actually caused muscle wasting. But, AFAIK, the Texas A&M study on 1DHEA is the only study on any of the DHEA pre-precursor drugs out there, so it's the only one that can be used as a reference point when talking about these compounds.
as you have noted.. there are not studies to pick and choose from. My source is purely anecdotal going back all the way to the OG PH androstenedione. circa, 1997ish. I fell for the marketing hype myself early on, (19 nor) as it was the first deca like PH to hit the market..
19 nordiol and frankly it sucked and no one would argue that who have actually tried it. like i said, there is a enzymatic process and you concur. what you are not seeing is that for example, the 4diol actually converted to test at a high rate, yet the dione version didnt as well. this should have been the case with 19nordiol as well. yet in viva it didnt convert well at all, and I personally theorize that its because there is too little of the proper enzymes floating around the system. Companies like LG tried to enhance the enzyme condition in hopes to help conversion of poorly converting PHs. this led to finding what we know now about TD's and how the conversion is better because the sustained delivery, combined with the higher enzyme pooling in certain areas of the dermis. I can go round and round with you but i think if you dive into the surrounding data around PH/DSs conversions and uptakes you can make some of the leaps i have made. Plus i think i remember PA agreeing with my stance. if it was worth it he would have marketed it along side 4diol which is the one he brought to the table which forever changed the landscape of legal anabolics
 
StarScream66

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as you have noted.. there are not studies to pick and choose from. My source is purely anecdotal going back all the way to the OG PH androstenedione. circa, 1997ish. I fell for the marketing hype myself early on, (19 nor) as it was the first deca like PH to hit the market..
19 nordiol and frankly it sucked and no one would argue that who have actually tried it. like i said, there is a enzymatic process and you concur. what you are not seeing is that for example, the 4diol actually converted to test at a high rate, yet the dione version didnt as well. this should have been the case with 19nordiol as well. yet in viva CORRECTION: in vivo I think you mean) it didnt convert well at all, and I personally theorize that its because there is too little of the proper enzymes floating around the system. Companies like LG tried to enhance the enzyme condition in hopes to help conversion of poorly converting PHs. this led to finding what we know now about TD's and how the conversion is better because the sustained delivery, combined with the higher enzyme pooling in certain areas of the dermis. I can go round and round with you but i think if you dive into the surrounding data around PH/DSs conversions and uptakes you can make some of the leaps i have made. Plus i think i remember PA agreeing with my stance. if it was worth it he would have marketed it along side 4diol which is the one he brought to the table which forever changed the landscape of legal anabolics
Well, I mean, I can't argue with your personal experience. I never tried 19nor-diol back in the day, but I remember warning a lot of people to stay away from the dione version.

But, in theory, they're all converting via the same enzyme so there should be no difference between taking 4androstenediol and 19-norandrostenediol in terms of conversion. I'd probably just say that nandrolone is probably just weaker because of it's conversion to DHN and for OP who is combining 2 different DHEAs (1-DHEA and 19nor-DHEA) there could be enzyme saturation where you're taking a lot of compounds that convert via the same enzymes, you have to the potential to not get the conversion you're looking for.

I haven't seen a TD 1DHEA, 1,4DHEA, or 19-nor-DHEA, but they would probably make good supplements. I think the reason we don't see much of that kind of stuff is because I believe Hi-Tech owns the patent on them and so you first have to pay them the rights to use it, and then it's very expensive and hard to source the stuff. But, the only reason these DHEA derivatives exist is because they are legal. In actual practice, it's very dumb to use a compound that has to convert to another compound via 2 different enzymes, but because the FDA/DEA scheduled all the old PHs, the DHEA derivatives were found as a legal workaround to be able to sell prohormones to people without getting in trouble with the authorities.

Obviously, just using AAS would solve all these problems. But, for those trying to go the legal route, I would not use 2 different DHEA compound together at the same time. There are plenty of other DS/PHs out there that would work much better. For example, I might use M1AD instead of 1DHEA and combine that with 1,4DHEA, which, IMO, is probably the best of the DHEA derivatives out there since both the 1,4androstenedione and diol are active and don't convert to estrogen or DHT.

Anyway, just my 2¢. It's a very interesting topic to discuss.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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APEX does indeed sell a 1andro in TD
i have never seen 1,4 DHEA on the market at least that i remember
 
StarScream66

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APEX does indeed sell a 1andro in TD
Interesting. What's the dosage per squirt and the cost?

i have never seen 1,4 DHEA on the market at least that i remember
Hi-Tech sells it as a product called Equibolin. It's out of stock a lot of times as I understand it's pretty hard to source and expensive to make.



EQUIBOLIN INGREDIENTS
Serving Size: 1 Tablet

Servings per container: 60

Amount per serving

3b-Hydroxy-1,4-Androstadien-17-one Undecanoate: 75mg

Rhaponticum Carthamoides 100:1 Extract(Rhizomes): 250mg

Other Ingredients: Microcrystalline Cellulose, Phosphatidylcholine 75%, Hydroxypropyl Beta Cyclodextrin (HPBCD), Phytosterols, Magnesium Stearate, Silica, FD&C Blue #2 FD&C Red #40
That is the only 1,4DHEA product I'm aware of on the market.

 
xR1pp3Rx

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oh HHAHAHA thats the worst JUNK of them all

HAHAHAHA srry bro there is literally not enough of that **** on the planet to make a worthwhile cycle. srry bro i was there when they started having me pimp that crap.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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i literally ate 3x the recomended dose every 3 hrs on the hour for 6 weeks strait including night time doses.. this stuff isnt even good for a filler.
 
StarScream66

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oh HHAHAHA thats the worst JUNK of them all

HAHAHAHA srry bro there is literally not enough of that **** on the planet to make a worthwhile cycle. srry bro i was there when they started having me pimp that crap.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It legitimately makes the conversion to EQ, but it may just be too underdosed for some people to have an effect.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It legitimately makes the conversion
i suppose they all do when the stars and the moon align. that said, if you want to theorize: perhaps they are making an appreciable conversion. maybe the ones that dont work are doing something entirely new and un studied ect.. like maybe they signal a surge in myostatin or turn off other muscle growth pathways.
 

dvw

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Alpha gainz, and iconic make transdermal 1 dhea, 4 dhea, androsterone,epiandrosterone, 7 keto dhea
 

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