Lithium Orotate

kisaj

Legend
I know I have posted many times in the past about my experiences the first times I used this. I always had a positive, but mixed review because I really enjoyed the very strong anxiolytic aspects and the ablility to remove emotion from things where it didn't really aid in decision making or thoughts. But I did have a slightly difficult time with the slight robotic feeling it gave and felt a bit detached.

Anyway, I decided to give it a shot again to see if it previous experiences were possibly due to circumstance, brand, expectation, etc.. I have been taking 5-10mg daily for the last week and all I can say is WOW. Completely different experience this time. The effects of lithium are very much acute and even your first time can be noticed within a day.

So what I am noticing this time around is an almost immediate feeling of pressure relief. Hard to explain, but sometimes you don't realize how much stress we walk around with until it is lifted. After my second dose, I could literally feel weight lifting off my mind and shoulders and the only way to explain it is to say that it made me ecstatic and just wanted to smile and talk to everyone around. The best part was that the things that provide the stress (mainly work items and general holiday BS) are still very much there and I'm aware, but can approach it in a different way. Almost like being on the outside now looking in and knowing what to do to address it rather than being inside of it not knowing what is so agitating and bothersome. Needless to say, my normal high productivity is through the roof right now.

Another thing is the energy. I have so much boundless energy that I don't feel like sleeping because there is so much I want to do. It doesn't stop any sleep and doesn't cause insomnia, but the end of day tiredness isn't there and waking up is very easy.

I'll pop in here as this goes on, but I really have done a lot of research on this in the last couple months prior to deciding to try again and talked to several of our family friends that happen to be psychiatrists and a professor friend that loves lithium orotate. Listening to them back up all the things I have researched and the excitement in further research for cognitive improvement and protection, made my decision easy.

So, just wanted to share in case anyone has been on the fence or wasn't aware of this supplement that so many people are deficient in.
 
kisaj said:
I know I have posted many times in the past about my experiences the first times I used this. I always had a positive, but mixed review because I really enjoyed the very strong anxiolytic aspects and the ablility to remove emotion from things where it didn't really aid in decision making or thoughts. But I did have a slightly difficult time with the slight robotic feeling it gave and felt a bit detached.

Anyway, I decided to give it a shot again to see if it previous experiences were possibly due to circumstance, brand, expectation, etc.. I have been taking 5-10mg daily for the last week and all I can say is WOW. Completely different experience this time. The effects of lithium are very much acute and even your first time can be noticed within a day.

So what I am noticing this time around is an almost immediate feeling of pressure relief. Hard to explain, but sometimes you don't realize how much stress we walk around with until it is lifted. After my second dose, I could literally feel weight lifting off my mind and shoulders and the only way to explain it is to say that it made me ecstatic and just wanted to smile and talk to everyone around. The best part was that the things that provide the stress (mainly work items and general holiday BS) are still very much there and I'm aware, but can approach it in a different way. Almost like being on the outside now looking in and knowing what to do to address it rather than being inside of it not knowing what is so agitating and bothersome. Needless to say, my normal high productivity is through the roof right now.

Another thing is the energy. I have so much boundless energy that I don't feel like sleeping because there is so much I want to do. It doesn't stop any sleep and doesn't cause insomnia, but the end of day tiredness isn't there and waking up is very easy.

I'll pop in here as this goes on, but I really have done a lot of research on this in the last couple months prior to deciding to try again and talked to several of our family friends that happen to be psychiatrists and a professor friend that loves lithium orotate. Listening to them back up all the things I have researched and the excitement in further research for cognitive improvement and protection, made my decision easy.

So, just wanted to share in case anyone has been on the fence or wasn't aware of this supplement that so many people are deficient in.
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Sounds awesome bro! Glad this run is better than before. Keep us posted.
 
Very interesting. What, if anything, have you been taking it with, and when in the day have you been taking it, and what else have you taken on days you've used it, even at different times in the day?
 
Also, when you say 5-10mg, that's 5-10mg of lithium from lithium orotate, not 5-10mg of lithium orotate, right? I'm looking at capsules that have 5mg lithium from 131mg LO per capsule.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Very interesting. What, if anything, have you been taking it with, and when in the day have you been taking it, and what else have you taken on days you've used it, even at different times in the day?
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5mg lithium from 130 mg lithium orotate.

My stack is the same as it has always been, not sure if you wanted a listing, outside of my ceasing of Ashwagandha. That is the only thing different that I was taking before. The only reason I am not at this time was for cycling purposes and now question if that had an effect. Certainly is a variable.

I take it in the morning.
 
kisaj said:
5mg lithium from 130 mg lithium orotate.

My stack is the same as it has always been, not sure if you wanted a listing, outside of my ceasing of Ashwagandha. That is the only thing different that I was taking before. The only reason I am not at this time was for cycling purposes and now question if that had an effect. Certainly is a variable.

I take it in the morning.
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Cool, thanks. I was just wondering if you added it to your regular stack, or replaced some parts of your stack with it to try it in more isolation. I think we both have pretty big nootropic stacks, so I'm wondering what to take it with, since I am interested in giving it a try, and it's very affordable.
 
I work in a psychiatric ward and many of the patients are on lithium. Be careful with that stuff man. You have to have labs drawn regularly as there is a very narrow therapeutic range. Too much could be very not safe. Not trying to hate, just making sure you are aware.
 
Have been taking it lately with either magnesium threonate, or magnesium glycinate, before bed. It's great stuff. Very relaxing and helps a lot with sleep (minimal improvement with magnesium by itself). Seems to shut off the excessive "mental chatter" before bed.
 
TNlifting said:
I work in a psychiatric ward and many of the patients are on lithium. Be careful with that stuff man. You have to have labs drawn regularly as there is a very narrow therapeutic range. Too much could be very not safe. Not trying to hate, just making sure you are aware.
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That is likely Lithium Carbonate, which requires a prescription. Lithium Orotate does not. I'm not entirely sure on the difference though.
 
How would you compare this to other anti anxiety medicines or supplements you have tried? Would it be worthwhile to take just every once in a while when wanting to relax for the night?
 
TNlifting said:
I work in a psychiatric ward and many of the patients are on lithium. Be careful with that stuff man. You have to have labs drawn regularly as there is a very narrow therapeutic range. Too much could be very not safe. Not trying to hate, just making sure you are aware.
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You are referring to lithium carbonate which is used at very high doses boarding on toxic side at most "medical" doses. This is lithium orotate, which has been shown to be very safe and actually protective at the low recommended doses.

Do appreciate the comments though, for those that may have them confused.
 
rascal14 said:
How would you compare this to other anti anxiety medicines or supplements you have tried? Would it be worthwhile to take just every once in a while when wanting to relax for the night?
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I would not be able to take it after mid afternoon as it is very energetic for me and makes want to talk and socialize even more than normal and I am an extrovert. This is by far the most powerful anxiolytic I've ever used and I consider Aniracetam the benchmark. The difference is that I like Ani as an immediate anxiolytic to an event because it can be taken like that. Lithium is feeling like it is an overall mood adjuster and a by product is anxiety relief because you just really don't care. Not saying no empathy or disengaged, but a little "removed".
 
kisaj said:
I would not be able to take it after mid afternoon as it is very energetic for me and makes want to talk and socialize even more than normal and I am an extrovert. This is by far the most powerful anxiolytic I've ever used and I consider Aniracetam the benchmark. The difference is that I like Ani as an immediate anxiolytic to an event because it can be taken like that. Lithium is feeling like it is an overall mood adjuster and a by product is anxiety relief because you just really don't care. Not saying no empathy or disengaged, but a little "removed".
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Oh I see, so no sedation like Xanax would cause. Have you tried Xanax? If so how does the anxiety relief compare to that provided by the Lithium? If you can gauge that based on the two very different effects they provide otherwise?

I didn't have any luck with Aniracetam before, I noticed nothing from using it. I may just need to give a different company a try. This may be why I am not fully understanding the effects of the Lithium.

So for an upcoming speech, would you say starting to take Lithium Orotate a few days before would be better than just Aniractem right before?

Sorry if any of that is a bit confusing.
 
For public speaking, I consider Aniracetam the best because of the thought compartmentalization and speech fluidity. But if it isn't having that affect for you, then lithium orotate would be a strong consideration considering it really helps with calming the mental and emotional connection with events, which ultimately is the main cause of any social anxiety whether it is public speaking or simply talking to someone. The anticipation. I know I say this often to describe it, but it really makes you not care so much, which I did equate to a robotic feel before but seeing it differently now.
 
kisaj said:
For public speaking, I consider Aniracetam the best because of the thought compartmentalization and speech fluidity. But if it isn't having that affect for you, then lithium orotate would be a strong consideration considering it really helps with calming the mental and emotional connection with events, which ultimately is the main cause of any social anxiety whether it is public speaking or simply talking to someone. The anticipation. I know I say this often to describe it, but it really makes you not care so much, which I did equate to a robotic feel before but seeing it differently now.
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So, just to be clear, you don't see, or haven't had, any issues taking lithium orotate with your normal nootropic/cognitive stack (things such as caffeine, choline, huperzine, bacopa, etc, and racetams)?
 
The only thing I take from a daily noot standpoint is pregnenolone (which I consider one of the best cognitive supplements available) and choline. I take Ani as needed, which is typically 2-3 times a week for big meetings. That's it.

No issues whatsoever.
 
kisaj said:
You are referring to lithium carbonate which is used at very high doses boarding on toxic side at most "medical" doses. This is lithium orotate, which has been shown to be very safe and actually protective at the low recommended doses.

Do appreciate the comments though, for those that may have them confused.
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Interesting. And yes it is indeed lithium carbonate I was thinking of. I commonly see patients being prescribed anywhere from 150-450mg three times per day. l just did some brief research on this lithium orotate and it seems the orotate molecule allows it to cross the blood brain barrier and makes it much more bioavailable which in turn makes for lower dosing necessary. The website I read claimed that lithium carbonate needed to be dosed so high because it is actually poorly utilized by the body so blood levels need to be kept high (like borderline toxicity range) in order to "force" the lithium into the cell so that it can be used. It was all pretty interesting. I will definitely do some more research on this as it sounds like there are a plethora of benefits to lithium orotate.
 
A very noticeable and welcome effect is a substantial increase in vocabulary out of no where. I've actually had a couple people comment on it, including my wife, who obviously would know best how I would normally talk. I have words popping into my head that I don't recall ever using and never looked up, so I can only assume it came from previous studying or other avenue and never gave thought to it. Now the words are at the forefront of my brain.

No lie, I have actually googled a few words I've used in meetings lately to see if they were in context since I would never normally use them in conversation, and to my amazement, every single one fit perfectly. Sounds ridiculous, but so are the ease and breeziness of fairly complex, technical conversations I am having.
 
kisaj said:
A very noticeable and welcome effect is a substantial increase in vocabulary out of no where. I've actually had a couple people comment on it, including my wife, who obviously would know best how I would normally talk. I have words popping into my head that I don't recall ever using and never looked up, so I can only assume it came from previous studying or other avenue and never gave thought to it. Now the words are at the forefront of my brain.

No lie, I have actually googled a few words I've used in meetings lately to see if they were in context since I would never normally use them in conversation, and to my amazement, every single one fit perfectly. Sounds ridiculous, but so are the ease and breeziness of fairly complex, technical conversations I am having.
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Awesome man, I'll have to pick some up for sure now.
 
rascal14 said:
What brand are you using?
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Obviously not kisaj, but NCI Advanced Research lithium orotate is a good brand (and cheap). It seems to be the most popular brand (formulated by Dr. Hans Nieper....the so called expert on lithium orotate for supplemental use) in online stores/forums and the brand I've used off and on for years.
 
None noticed, but people report it helping to avoid hangovers. I haven't had a blow out night since starting it, so jury is out on that.
 
I just ordered some on Amazon Prime. I'll be taking probably 5mg a day, my girlfriend the same. We will try 10mg a day if we don't notice anything.
 
Took 5mg mid morning today because I slept in because my finals not until 4:30pm.

About 40 minutes after I do feel pretty focused and talkative, a fairly good mood, no anxiety reduction. Maybe more cause I seem to be tapping my hands and feet more but it does seem like an almost stimulant effect.

I've got a day of studying ahead so I am gonna drink some coffee.

My girlfriend is holding off on taking it until tomorrow, she has her last final in a couple hours and I didn't think it was a good idea for her to experiment with something new like this right before. I don't mind experimenting with myself lol
 
TNlifting said:
Interesting. And yes it is indeed lithium carbonate I was thinking of. I commonly see patients being prescribed anywhere from 150-450mg three times per day. l just did some brief research on this lithium orotate and it seems the orotate molecule allows it to cross the blood brain barrier and makes it much more bioavailable which in turn makes for lower dosing necessary. The website I read claimed that lithium carbonate needed to be dosed so high because it is actually poorly utilized by the body so blood levels need to be kept high (like borderline toxicity range) in order to "force" the lithium into the cell so that it can be used. It was all pretty interesting. I will definitely do some more research on this as it sounds like there are a plethora of benefits to lithium orotate.
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I think its actually the other way around. Im pretty sure lithium ororate is less absorbable. And is actually self limiting as only a certain amount can get absorbed. Would love to read your source though. I could be wrong. Link it if you can
 
rascal14 said:
Took 5mg mid morning today because I slept in because my finals not until 4:30pm.

About 40 minutes after I do feel pretty focused and talkative, a fairly good mood, no anxiety reduction. Maybe more cause I seem to be tapping my hands and feet more but it does seem like an almost stimulant effect.

I've got a day of studying ahead so I am gonna drink some coffee.

My girlfriend is holding off on taking it until tomorrow, she has her last final in a couple hours and I didn't think it was a good idea for her to experiment with something new like this right before. I don't mind experimenting with myself lol
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Interesting. I have an exam at 7:00 tonight, and I just got my lithium orotate (5mg caps) in the mail a minute ago. I took my normal nootropics (caffeine, choline, huperzine, aniracetam, bacopa, etc) probably about 2 hours ago (I put off using flmodafinil again, haha), so I'm thinking of taking the lithium now. Thoughts? I don't want to wait until later to take it just in case it effects my sleep a bit, and I'd rather give my body/mind several hours to notice effects and "feel it out" before going into an exam not knowing what to expect.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Interesting. I have an exam at 7:00 tonight, and I just got my lithium orotate (5mg caps) in the mail a minute ago. I took my normal nootropics (caffeine, choline, huperzine, aniracetam, bacopa, etc) probably about 2 hours ago (I put off using flmodafinil again, haha), so I'm thinking of taking the lithium now. Thoughts? I don't want to wait until later to take it just in case it effects my sleep a bit, and I'd rather give my body/mind several hours to notice effects and "feel it out" before going into an exam not knowing what to expect.
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how confident in the exam are you already? The reason I went ahead and tried mine was that my performance on the exam isn't too important. I'm getting a B in the class either way. If I do super well on the exam I could get an A, but I'm more focused on finals later in the week.

I don't think it will negatively effect you taking the exam. I do feel very focused, I just can't put my focus to studying right now because I don't want to lol
 
rascal14 said:
how confident in the exam are you already? The reason I went ahead and tried mine was that my performance on the exam isn't too important. I'm getting a B in the class either way. If I do super well on the exam I could get an A, but I'm more focused on finals later in the week.

I don't think it will negatively effect you taking the exam. I do feel very focused, I just can't put my focus to studying right now because I don't want to lol
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I'm more concerned about my exam on Wednesday, and a project due on Thursday. Of course, I'm still taking this one seriously though; I think I'm in a similar situation as you with this exam. Did you take it with food? My bottle (Swanson) says to.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I'm more concerned about my exam on Wednesday, and a project due on Thursday. Of course, I'm still taking this one seriously though; I think I'm in a similar situation as you with this exam. Did you take it with food? My bottle (Swanson) says to.
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I took it on an empty stomach, I couldn't find anything on whether with food or not was better. I ate probably an hour after taking it.
 
I've been sweating all day today. I take Glycopyrrolate for hyperhidrosis, I forgot it yesterday and was a little sweaty but I took it this morning and have been even more sweaty today.

I'm wondering if the Lithium is possibly causing it to not do it's job? We'll see in the next couple days. I haven't found anything suggesting it might cause it to stop working.
 
Today's dose didn't have any of the effects as yesterday. I'm thinking yesterday was placebo and just general excitement.

Still more sweaty than usual even with my medicine.
 
Just wondering if there is any negative effects of combining tianeptine with lithium? As right now I'm hit a new all time low in shty things going on. I NEED full emotional detachment at the moment. As I frankly CANT handle any more and I know I have more coming that I WILL have to deal with. So I need to be fully detached if I'm gonna make it through. Also any recommendations of anything else I should add to help for atleast the next 3 weeks to get me through this shty period right now?!?!
 
I'll be honest that I don't know if I would stack tianeptine with anything. That stuff is pretty scary, IMO and while I didn't see the horrible withdrawal that so many others do, it was enough to make me aware that it has no place in my cabinet.
 
So this boundless energy, emotional detachment. Could this be something that's kicking you into a manic state (minus feelings)
 
I didn't take the Lithium today and I have not sweat at all. I will maybe try it again here soon and see if it keeps making me sweat despite the medicine. My girlfriend has still been taking it though, she says she doesn't notice much. I can't tell a difference in her behavior or attitude yet, either.

Sorry for making this thread my own little log lol
 
rtmilburn said:
I think its actually the other way around. Im pretty sure lithium ororate is less absorbable. And is actually self limiting as only a certain amount can get absorbed. Would love to read your source though. I could be wrong. Link it if you can
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Hey sorry for the late response, but here is what I read:

Another form of lithium, called lithium orotate, is preferred because the orotate ion crosses the blood-brain barrier more easily than the carbonate ion of the pharmaceutical lithium carbonate. Therefore, lithium orotate can be used in much lower servings (e.g. 5 mg) with remarkable results and no side effects. -Shaheen Lakhan, M.D., author of “Nutritional Therapies for Mental Disorders”

Source:
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Not too sure how credible this source is honestly, so if you find something more reliable stating otherwise I'd be interested in reading that as well.
 
TNlifting said:
Hey sorry for the late response, but here is what I read:

Another form of lithium, called lithium orotate, is preferred because the orotate ion crosses the blood-brain barrier more easily than the carbonate ion of the pharmaceutical lithium carbonate. Therefore, lithium orotate can be used in much lower servings (e.g. 5 mg) with remarkable results and no side effects. -Shaheen Lakhan, M.D., author of “Nutritional Therapies for Mental Disorders”

Source:
Invalid Link Removed

Not too sure how credible this source is honestly, so if you find something more reliable stating otherwise I'd be interested in reading that as well.
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I was actually just going off my memory. I haven't read any sources recently. Your source does seem legit.
 
kisaj said:
Not sure if you are serious, but no.
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I was, never heard of this stuff but a friend who is on lithium gets a strange disconnected but yet manic effect from it. Tons of energy, can't sleep, crazy productive, and really supresses emotions.

I mean it just sounded like a RC analog to the lithium they give for manic depressive disorder. I guess I'm incorrect! That does happen a lot when I post about something I've never heard of. That's why I make it a ?
 
sespress said:
I was, never heard of this stuff but a friend who is on lithium gets a strange disconnected but yet manic effect from it. Tons of energy, can't sleep, crazy productive, and really supresses emotions.

I mean it just sounded like a RC analog to the lithium they give for manic depressive disorder. I guess I'm incorrect! That does happen a lot when I post about something I've never heard of. That's why I make it a ?
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Ok, I couldn't tell because it read that you were taking something out of context from what is a very positive experience and asking about mania, so it did not make sense.

The funny thing is, most people taking any drugs or supplements related to cognitive, mood, or energy improvement are actually seeking hypomania and don't even realize it. I have never thought of it as a bad thing as all aspects are good, when it is balanced.
 
kisaj said:
Ok, I couldn't tell because it read that you were taking something out of context from what is a very positive experience and asking about mania, so it did not make sense.

The funny thing is, most people taking any drugs or supplements related to cognitive, mood, or energy improvement are actually seeking hypomania and don't even realize it. I have never thought of it as a bad thing as all aspects are good, when it is balanced.
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That's fair, I take Phenibut to calm down. Etizolam occasionally if I'm having a panic attack or a bout of insomnia that lasts more than a few days. So I'm usually trying to do just that. I hate being sped up on the wrong thing. I'll take floromodafanil with a sudaphed a few times a week and that doesn't bother me but things like Adderall or high doses of caffeine will wreck me.

I just sawlithium and thought of the psychiatric medications. I'm not sure if you've taken that before but if you have taken it would you say it's fairly similar to this?
 
I'm assuming you are talking about lithium carbonate, which is the prescription version that is taken in much higher doses and provided to patients with bi-polar. If so, no I have never taken that and would have no reason. Lithium orotate is actually very safe and being recommended quite often now by regular holistic docs and integrated medicine professionals. It is lacking in our diets and offers a wealth of benefits outside of the reasons most of us would take it- anxiolytic properties, improved reasoning and memory, and mental clarity.
 
If anyone has issues with staying asleep at night (i.e. frequent awakenings), then 10 mg of lithium (from roughly 240 mg of lithium orotate) is great for keeping you asleep. I'm also very calm/relaxed when waking in the morning and the normal brain fog is gone....and also seems to negate any jitters from coffee in the morning (like it much better than l-theanine with coffee). I'd taken 5 mg twice a day for a while and it helps but apparently 10 mg as a single dose provides a much better result.
 
Nice anecdotal input, as it seems many people that take LO, follow a similar scheduling. Taking 5-10mg before bed and then only 5mg in the morning. They seem to report the same things you do regarding a lack of morning brain fog and what would almost sound like some cort control(?) with the relaxed feeling.

I may try this on the weekend, because I get a heightened awareness and mental energy shortly after taking and I couldn't imagine sleeping on it, but I haven't tried so maybe that could be overcome with an effort.
 
kisaj said:
Nice anecdotal input, as it seems many people that take LO, follow a similar scheduling. Taking 5-10mg before bed and then only 5mg in the morning. They seem to report the same things you do regarding a lack of morning brain fog and what would almost sound like some cort control(?) with the relaxed feeling.

I may try this on the weekend, because I get a heightened awareness and mental energy shortly after taking and I couldn't imagine sleeping on it, but I haven't tried so maybe that could be overcome with an effort.
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I do take it with magnesium too. So, that might be influencing the sedative reaction I get at night. Also, the only negative I've noticed with taking 10 mg at night is waking up very dehydrated (mouth extremely dry). However, that's a very minor issue that's easily resolved.
 
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