Let's Talk L-Carnitine

[MadStax]

I'm unable to use stims or caffeine while on cycle. Been looking at various things to replace Cardarine and stumbled upon L-Carnitine.

What's everyone using? How successful have you been? Better than Cardarine?

 

[Richie Rich]

It's 2 different things. If you're going to use L carnitine use injectable.

 

[MadStax]

It's 2 different things. If you're going to use L carnitine use injectable.

Yes, I'm aware that they are different things. I would for sure do the injection, not oral.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

If I was to choose, injectable l carnitine for sure

 

[Hyde]

Nothing alike. Just started playing with carn last few weeks. 500mg L-Carnitine pinned IM preWO has no feeling at all, while 10mg GW kinda does. You can kind of feel GW, especially if you use 20mg (don’t; 10 is plenty to raise endurance immediately acutely).

L-Carnitine is about driving longterm adaptions, the way you would use HGH longterm. It can also be used to drive fatloss indirectly short-term, but it’s definitely not a preWO. You use it preWO, to drive endurance and beta-oxidation, but it will not give you a feeling of energy. It decreases lactate in the muscles and lowers rate of perceived exertion so you can do more work.

I can see how reading that it sounds like GW, but all I can say is it’s not the same and I would just take GW on cycle for preWO boost a few times a week. Carnitine does a ton of other things, like increase androgen receptor binding affinity & lowering constant so your gear works better, and it extends the life & effect of IGF1 so it makes HGH work better too, and plenty else, but it’s something where you want to add 200mg to your daily protocol, not push it for just a few months.

 

[MadStax]

Nothing alike. Just started playing with carn last few weeks. 500mg L-Carnitine pinned IM preWO has no feeling at all, while 10mg GW kinda does. You can kind of feel GW, especially if you use 20mg (don’t; 10 is plenty to raise endurance immediately acutely).

L-Carnitine is about driving longterm adaptions, the way you would use HGH longterm. It can also be used to drive fatloss indirectly short-term, but it’s definitely not a preWO. You use it preWO, to drive endurance and beta-oxidation, but it will not give you a feeling of energy. It decreases lactate in the muscles and lowers rate of perceived exertion so you can do more work.

I can see how reading that it sounds like GW, but all I can say is it’s not the same and I would just take GW on cycle for preWO boost a few times a week. Carnitine does a ton of other things, like increase androgen receptor binding affinity & lowering constant so your gear works better, and it extends the life & effect of IGF1 so it makes HGH work better too, and plenty else, but it’s something where you want to add 200mg to your daily protocol, not push it for just a few months.

As always, great info Hyde! I'll stick with Cardarine. I might give Semaglutide a try if I can find it cheap enough.

 

[Hyde]

As always, great info Hyde! I'll stick with Cardarine. I might give Semaglutide a try if I can find it cheap enough.

I’m really digging the l-carnitine after 2-3 weeks of shots. Draws & pins incredibly easy in 27g 1/2”. But it’s really a daily supplement for the long haul.

 

[KvanH]

For the no stims on cycle issue; have you tried Teacrine? It's very subtle, but gives pretty long lasting decent energy, for me at least. It doesn't have a kick like most stims, but keeps my 'basic level' energy up for longer, than caffeine for example, in situations where I'd start to get a bit tired otherwise.

Another thing to try is to take L-Theanine with stims. It really takes the edge off, if jitters is the problem. If bp is the problem, then I don't know, I've never measured my bp on stims. I would guess the jitters inducing effect and bp increase to correlate to some degree, so in that sense the Theanine could also be worth a try, but that's just an assumption.

 

[Hyde]

For the no stims on cycle issue; have you tried Teacrine? It's very subtle, but gives pretty long lasting decent energy, for me at least. It doesn't have a kick like most stims, but keeps my 'basic level' energy up for longer, than caffeine for example, in situations where I'd start to get a bit tired otherwise.

Another thing to try is to take L-Theanine with stims. It really takes the edge off, if jitters is the problem. If bp is the problem, then I don't know, I've never measured my bp on stims. I would guess the jitters inducing effect and bp increase to correlate to some degree, so in that sense the Teacrine could also be worth a try, but that's just an assumption.

They do correlate. It’s been proven that paired L-Theanine mitigates the bp increases & intensity of caffeine. I have to lower my stims on blast, but most importantly I need to run L-Theanine with them.

SNS Focus XT is my go-to preWO now on blast for this reason. One scoop has efficacious doses of everything, intelligently laid out.

Or you can buy 100 or 200mg L-Theanine caps and stack them with something.

Taurine should always be in your preWO too. So cheap, does so much for hydration (read: energy & performance) and pump at a basic level.

 

[KvanH]

They do correlate. It’s been proven that paired L-Theanine mitigates the bp increases & intensity of caffeine. I have to lower my stims on blast, but most importantly I need to run L-Theanine with them.

SNS Focus XT is my go-to preWO now on blast for this reason. One scoop has efficacious doses of everything, intelligently laid out.

Or you can buy 100 or 200mg L-Theanine caps and stack them with something.

Taurine should always be in your preWO too. So cheap, does so much for hydration (read: energy & performance) and pump at a basic level.

That's good to know, thanks. Yeah, I have a bulk powder of L-Theanine a year round and use it whenever I see the need. It's a great product for several uses for me.

I use Taurine often too, on cycle it's a staple. But I've usually taken it before bed, due to the mild gaba-agonism it has in theory at least. Maybe I should switch it to preWO on WO days..

 

[Hyde]

That's good to know, thanks. Yeah, I have a bulk powder of L-Theanine a year round and use it whenever I see the need. It's a great product for several uses for me.

I use Taurine often too, on cycle it's a staple. But I've usually taken it before bed, due to the mild gaba-agonism it has in theory at least. Maybe I should switch it to preWO on WO days..

You aren’t going to overdo Taurine really, besides waste money. It’s a nonessential amino acid, so play around with it!

 

[Alistair_]

I’m really digging the l-carnitine after 2-3 weeks of shots. Draws & pins incredibly easy in 27g 1/2”. But it’s really a daily supplement for the long haul.

How many mg per ml is your l-carnitine? I have 600mg and it’s so thick you can’t even draw it up with a 25g pin. I thin it out with extra bac water.

 

[CasperKValentine]

How many mg per ml is your l-carnitine? I have 600mg and it’s so thick you can’t even draw it up with a 25g pin. I thin it out with extra bac water.

You could always pick up some cheap 18g needles from Tractor Supply if you are in the states. Draw with the 18g then switch back to the 25g. That's what I do with Test. It draws up so quick and easy it's worth the few seconds it takes to swap needles.

 

[Hyde]

How many mg per ml is your l-carnitine? I have 600mg and it’s so thick you can’t even draw it up with a 25g pin. I thin it out with extra bac water.

500mg/ml - 100ml jug for $120 shipped.

 

[trenx1]

From what I read on reddit people made inj l-carnitine sound pretty effective as far as fat burning goes. Is it really worth throwing in your stack when you are already on a bunch of GH and tren?

 

[Hyde]

From what I read on reddit people made inj l-carnitine sound pretty effective as far as fat burning goes. Is it really worth throwing in your stack when you are already on a bunch of GH and tren?

It extends the half-life of the IGF1 binding protein 3 complex by an hour or two, and it increases binding affinity for the AR while lowering constant (so the androgen can dock, transcribe, and then release sooner to go find another receptor to act on).

So does it make your GH & AAS work better? Yes. Is it worth it? Depends on how you value that.

You can only handle so much GH & Tren. L-Carnitine is for those who don’t want to run more gear when they can make what they have work better. I don’t have the experience to say if it is worth it yet, but on paper it is to me.

 

[MadStax]

500mg/ml - 100ml jug for $120 shipped.

So, basically $1.20/day? Def worth trying! Any help on that source?

 

[DieselNY]

So, basically $1.20/day? Def worth trying! Any help on that source?

Ditto! Nice price for sure.

 

[Hyde]

So, basically $1.20/day? Def worth trying! Any help on that source?

Try $0.50 cents!

I bought Alex Kikel’s L-Carnitine ebook and it is absolutely chock full of the general breakdown of what we know from scientific studies about how it works, and then extrapolations based on his real-world experience with hundreds of clients using it.

The top practical takeaway is that, regardless of gender or size, it makes a bigger difference to run it for basically ever at 200mg/day than blasting it for only a few months. You generally want it IM preWO if training or doing fasted cardio, or subq in the morning on off-days.

You can push a lot more in a fatloss phase to further aid performance & beta-oxidation in training (like 200IM before fasted cardio and 2-600 more IM preWO), but there gets to be issues for some folks over 1G/day. And again you don’t want to stop this after 3 months, so how much do you want to spend is the question. Better to just run 200/day for a year and let it work in the background making your other drugs more effective, improving beta-oxidation, & improving work capacity - thereby indirectly improving your composition/results.

No need to load, but he says taking it with carbohydrate meals or 1 iu of novalin the first month for most doses is ideal because insulin enhances the uptake to skeletal muscle allowing faster saturation of your newly elevated levels. As you can see it is extremely minimal the amount required because it’s just helpful, not necessary.

I eat my preWO proats meal then pin it IM, down my stims and head to the gym. Off days, I just pin it subq in my glutes as soon as I get up. Easy.

 

[UNX]

So oral L-Carnitine is worthless? I'm on a stim-free fat burner with L-Carnitine, forskolin, fucoxanthin and so on...

 

[Alistair_]

So oral L-Carnitine is worthless? I'm on a stim-free fat burner with L-Carnitine, forskolin, fucoxanthin and so on...

IMO oral ALC and L-tartrate is not worthless. I use it along with my l carnitine injections because I don’t like to pin more than 300mg cuz the pip and lumps suck if I pin 600mg

 

[Alistair_]

@Hyde, thanks for the in depth info. Please keep us posted on your experience. I myself have not been doing INJ l-carnitine long enough to say it’s worth it.

 

[Hyde]

So oral L-Carnitine is worthless? I'm on a stim-free fat burner with L-Carnitine, forskolin, fucoxanthin and so on...

Not worthless - the studies just showed you must split the dose up into about 3 doses orally per day, and it’s only 5-18% absorbed in the gut (so ~10%). So you need 650-1,000mg taken 3x a day with meals/post carbohydrate consumption while insulin is present.

But we know from studies that fractions of that dosage work way better when it was given intravenously to dialysis patients they experimented with. Which proves that oral ingestion is very wasteful and using a superior delivery method greatly improves results. There are no studies on IM or subq administration so we have to extrapolate.

@Hyde, thanks for the in depth info. Please keep us posted on your experience. I myself have not been doing INJ l-carnitine long enough to say it’s worth it.

Will do. I figured I would try to distribute some of the practical usage points here because I honestly feel like that ebook is great for someone who wants to understand the science, but not very user friendly for someone who just wants to know how to dose it.

 

[Rocket3015]

It's 2 different things. If you're going to use L carnitine use injectable.

Yep !

 

[Lolligaggin]

You aren’t going to overdo Taurine really, besides waste money. It’s a nonessential amino acid, so play around with it!

Then what was all the hype about it and them putting it in the first energy drinks like Monster?

 

[Rocket3015]

Taurine will help to prevent muscle cramps,

 

[KvanH]

Then what was all the hype about it and them putting it in the first energy drinks like Monster?

He meant, that you won't be risking any 'OD' and that unwanted sides with trying different doses and different timings would be unlikely. Biggest risk would just be wasting money, if taking more, than is needed, or in situations, where it's of no use.

 

[Hyde]

Then what was all the hype about it and them putting it in the first energy drinks like Monster?

I’m not really sure what you’re asking me.

 

[Lolligaggin]

I’m not really sure what you’re asking me.

If Taurine does nothing

 

[johnny412]

If Taurine does nothing

tf? you need to improve your reading comprehension skills bruh

 

[Hyde]

If Taurine does nothing

No it’s awesome; I go out of my way to use it intraworkout probably 4/5 of the time.

It’s helpful for hydration, mood, necessary for a ton of correct bodily functions. It’s extremely cheap to produce.

Hydration = muscle size & strength, energy, performance, wellbeing

Not like “steroids” awesome; more like fundamental proper operation of the whole show.

 

[Lolligaggin]

You aren’t going to overdo Taurine really, besides waste money. It’s a nonessential amino acid, so play around with it!

I need to work on my reading comprehension?
Lol

How else was I supposed to take this comment?
Looked like he was saying Taurine is a waste of money

 

[MadStax]

I need to work on my reading comprehension?
Lol

How else was I supposed to take this comment?
Looked like he was saying Taurine is a waste of money

Negative. This comment is stating that taking more than necessary is wasting money. Taking a standard dose is well worth the few cents it'll cost you!

 

[KvanH]

I need to work on my reading comprehension?
Lol

How else was I supposed to take this comment?
Looked like he was saying Taurine is a waste of money

I tried to explain it in my response, but to put it short, in the context of the previous convo we had, the only negative in over doing Taurine would be wasting money.

It was a response to my post, which was a response to his earlier post, and so on. If you read the whole convo about Taurine (like 3-4 posts), I'm sure you'll see, what he meant and that it was not, that Taurine is a waste of money.

 

[MadStax]

Side note for all the home brew guys, I've been making my own L-Carn for a few months now. I'm not sure if it's placebo effect, but I really feel like I can focus on connecting with the muscle group I'm targeting better. When I'm doing accessory work, it seems I can activate the muscle more quickly and get better separation, if that makes sense? Other than that, I haven't noticed much of a difference.

It's dirt cheap to make though, so no reason not to keep it up. I grabbed a liter of IV saline and it dissolves in that really quickly and easily. Added a touch of BA just to be sure. Then just syringe filter it into 20ml vials at 500mg/ml.

 

[match]

Side note for all the home brew guys, I've been making my own L-Carn for a few months now. I'm not sure if it's placebo effect, but I really feel like I can focus on connecting with the muscle group I'm targeting better. When I'm doing accessory work, it seems I can activate the muscle more quickly and get better separation, if that makes sense? Other than that, I haven't noticed much of a difference.

It's dirt cheap to make though, so no reason not to keep it up. I grabbed a liter of IV saline and it dissolves in that really quickly and easily. Added a touch of BA just to be sure. Then just syringe filter it into 20ml vials at 500mg/ml.

I thought about doing that, but after I calculated the cost of materials and hardware necessary the pricetag looked like it was going to run pretty close to what I would need to pay to just buy my first year's supply already made.

Combine that with the fact that I don't want to build a chem lab in my garage (where my young kids lift weights 5 days a week), or have to explain to my wife why I am cooking up home brewed injectable solutions.

Even if it isn't illegal, it'd sure look like it (or at least seem sketchy), and would require me to answer a bunch of questions that are easily avoided by just buying it premade.

Glad you're able to save some cash and get yourself as much as you want for cheap though!

 

[Hyde]

I need to work on my reading comprehension?
Lol

How else was I supposed to take this comment?
Looked like he was saying Taurine is a waste of money

I’m sorry it was ambiguous to you. If the wording isn’t clear to the reader it’s not very useful, now is it?

Good advice that won’t get followed is bad advice, as they say.

 

[Rocket3015]

I thought about doing that, but after I calculated the cost of materials and hardware necessary the pricetag looked like it was going to run pretty close to what I would need to pay to just buy my first year's supply already made.

Combine that with the fact that I don't want to build a chem lab in my garage (where my young kids lift weights 5 days a week), or have to explain to my wife why I am cooking up home brewed injectable solutions.

Even if it isn't illegal, it'd sure look like it (or at least seem sketchy), and would require me to answer a bunch of questions that are easily avoided by just buying it premade.

Glad you're able to save some cash and get yourself as much as you want for cheap though!

I have a friend that brew's his own Bio-Fuel, his neighbor's all think it's a Meth Lab !!