Let’s See - 1-Test/Epi Andro log

MFTrainz

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I started this in another section but I’m going to import a lot of those posts here.
I’m on day 3 today of just the 1-Andro, and will be adding in epi-andro for the remaining 6 weeks. I have limited PH experience but I have done my research and, still, continue to learn more here. So let me preface everything else by saying thank you guys - the collective knowledge here is amazing and very useful. Nice to be part of a like minded community again.
Based on a conversation with another member, there’s a thought of adding 4-ad into the mix. I want to keep things fairly mild but, on the same token, if I’m going to suppress myself and risk sides I’m going to make the cycle worth it.
PCT on hand is Clomid and a natty test booster. I am picking up sustain alpha and anabolic effect. I might pick up TADA just to have on hand and I will have an AI on hand for any estrogenic sides.

supports - cycle support, grape seed extract, hawthorn berry, fish oil, multi, extra vitamin C, and a joint support consisting mainly of glucosamine chondroitin and msm with another prop blend of various things.

Goals - Recomp.
I track my training and caloric intake diligently. I can post my workouts and progress weekly as well as my diet as any and all constructive criticism and help is welcome. My only request is if you would like to follow on this journey please be respectful to myself and everyone else. I am eating just below maintenance right now and will up the calories slightly when the epi gets introduced. They will get upped slightly again during PCT and the training intensity will continue to stay ramped up, essentially telling my body to keep the gains it made.
My cardio is consistent - I was an athlete for years, I jog/run and then do some mma/boxing work once or twice a week. That will continue regardless for the health benefits.
As mentioned, I have a log started I’ll essentially copy posts over from and I can provide further detail and background on myself and my training today.

Thanks and hope to see you guys in here!!
 
MFTrainz

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As mentioned today is day 3. So far the placebo has been great but it’s too early to really feel the 1-andro I believe.
I do legs twice a week since an old back injury won’t let me squat heavy on the back, but I can do heavy deads with a trap bar and I can front squat. I know, it’s weird.......
Yesterday was my heavy day for legs - today is less strength and more hypertrophic based leg and shoulders day.
Breakfast - oatmeal, PB, banana, almond milk, 1 scoop whey. Starting weight 190.2
Stay tuned!

Edit: I’m going to get the extra PCT stack supps Tuesday. I’m going to decide tonight if I want to add the 4-AD, and if so if I still need to bump up the 1-AD to 330. I’m going to do this right, keep it safe but keep it worth it. After I train I got some reading to do here and anywhere else that can help me make the most informed decision before placing that extra order....... they got a quick curbside pickup and I’d rather just get everything else at once
 
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MFTrainz

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For those that happen to check - this is more detailed. I will try to be thorough about the discussion of the supplement here and focus more on the nutrition aspect of this recomp below

 
LeanEngineer

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In on this!
 
MFTrainz

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Day 4 - decision has been made and product ordered, throwing 4AD into this mix.
I changed up the workout variation yesterday and saw some density and vascularity I haven’t seen for awhile. It’s clear that even the mental benefits of this go a long way in the weight room - that placebo type effect, that whole “I think therefore I am” or whatever.....

i think I’m getting stronger. The weights are agreeing. All logic is saying it’s mental until you start to notice things in week 3, 4, and so on.....
 
MFTrainz

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Thanks bro. Because I’m a moron at times, I have the same log basically going in another section that has pics and a bit more detail. I will likely keep up both for the hell of it, with one focusing more on compounds and effects and the other focused on the diet and training/recomp efforts.
Obviously a lot of content will overlap but oh well, it’ll be good stuff to look back on
 
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In :)
 
MFTrainz

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Day 4 - Interestingly, the focus aspect alone is worth the cost of the product. I had a bunch of random sh*t on my mind, even walking in to the gym, but once I got going it’s like I was able to pause my head for an hour and really get to it.
Strength is progressing still, but if you check the last log I’ve only been back in the gym for about 2 months, during the height of Covid and up until then I was just training in my garage with a few dumbbells, resistance bands, and a sandbag I bought. It managed to do pretty well for maintenance in that time period and even improved some strength in stabilizers. If you never tried it, I highly suggest throwing a bit of sandbag work into your routine. Nobody said you couldn’t practice functional fitness in the quest for aesthetics.....
I do my deadlifts on the weekends so it was a Back/Bicep/Cardio day for me that involved more hypertrophic training, and less compounds.
One arm DB row went from 85-90 since last week
Weighted pull ups went from adding only 20 lbs to adding 25

small things that are likely attributed to the natural progression of being back in my groove but still, I wouldn’t count this out as it begins to saturate in the system a bit. I generally respond quickly to things for better or worse
 
LeanEngineer

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Nice! Any extra weight adding onto pull ups is a win in my book.
 
MFTrainz

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Nice! Any extra weight adding onto pull ups is a win in my book.
I’m going to up the ante today and throw a 45 on that chain and see what happens......

Side note for those super familiar - the compounds look VERY similar but not identical - if my order from SL doesn’t arrive in a timely fashion (still sitting in label created status) would I be putting myself in any sort of bad situation picking up a bottle of the Hi-Tech 4-Andro while I wait? Just to start introducing that in my system and protectively combat any of the issues from not having a test base to speak?
 
KvanH

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I’m going to up the ante today and throw a 45 on that chain and see what happens......

Side note for those super familiar - the compounds look VERY similar but not identical - if my order from SL doesn’t arrive in a timely fashion (still sitting in label created status) would I be putting myself in any sort of bad situation picking up a bottle of the Hi-Tech 4-Andro while I wait? Just to start introducing that in my system and protectively combat any of the issues from not having a test base to speak?
Did you name the 4-Andro product you are waiting to arrive? Didn't catch it. But if they are both 4-Andro, no harm in starting with another brand. The brands seem to use a bit different prescriptions of the compounds some times, but if it's 4-Andro (or 4-Androsterone / 4-DHEA) then it's that. I think Hi-Tech says theirs to be decanoate and with cyclosome delivery.
 
MFTrainz

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Did you name the 4-Andro product you are waiting to arrive? Didn't catch it. But if they are both 4-Andro, no harm in starting with another brand. The brands seem to use a bit different prescriptions of the compounds some times, but if it's 4-Andro (or 4-Androsterone / 4-DHEA) then it's that. I think Hi-Tech says theirs to be decanoate and with cyclosome delivery.
Considering 4 Andro can be purchased over the counter I don’t see any harm in saying I ordered from a board sponsor, SL, and theirs is just 4-andro where the Hi-tech Androdolin (their name for it) 4-andro seemed to have a SLIGHTLY different make up when I was comparing but I'm not nearly as intelligent as some are when it comes to the compounds and the conversions.
 
KvanH

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Considering 4 Andro can be purchased over the counter I don’t see any harm in saying I ordered from a board sponsor, SL, and theirs is just 4-andro where the Hi-tech Androdolin (their name for it) 4-andro seemed to have a SLIGHTLY different make up when I was comparing but I'm not nearly as intelligent as some are when it comes to the compounds and the conversions.
Board sponsors are allways ok to mention and I think other retailers aswell, when talking about something otc. They are both 4-Andro so you can start with the Hi-Tech.
 
MFTrainz

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Board sponsors are allways ok to mention and I think other retailers aswell, when talking about something otc. They are both 4-Andro so you can start with the Hi-Tech.
I might grab a bottle if their shipping doesn't update. Hi tech has weird dosing per tab though - like 75mg each.

Thanks for your help man, much appreciated
 
KvanH

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I might grab a bottle if their shipping doesn't update. Hi tech has weird dosing per tab though - like 75mg each.

Thanks for your help man, much appreciated
Yeah Hi-Tech is known for their poor dosing / pill / bottle + high price and dumb naming of their products (like Superdrol, Dianabol, Anavar, etc..). That's why I don't like them. But their products should work all the same and you can defo get things going with their 4-Andro if you see fit.

No problem mate. We're all here to help eachother = )
 
MFTrainz

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Update - feeling leaner but stronger.
Most of my lifts are either going up or getting easier.
The only thing currently not fully on track is diet - my eating is clean but my macros are slightly off from where I want. Slightly high in fat and slightly low in protein. I'm going to keep my carbs up to combat lethargy and because I have always responded to at least moderate carbs in my diet. The ABSOLUTE lowest I could see myself going is 150g if I decide to cycle that way the last couple weeks of epi and increase my proteins and good fats.
 
MFTrainz

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Tonight when I have a bit more time I would like to post a sample diet and training day and take into consideration any respectful critiques and constructive criticism if anybody is feeling bored and up to it later. Thank you all for checking it, helping me with my questions, and kind of just coming along for the ride to swole town
 
MFTrainz

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I couldn't update last night - my kids were being terrible. I'll be doing so today. And buying 4-Andro locally while I wait for my order. I don't know if it's lethargy or simply the fact that I'm exhausted from them but I need some extra help in the gym today
 
MFTrainz

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Update - officially one week on the 1-test (1 andro) and it's been going pretty well so far. It's too new in my system to have any idea what's placebo and what isn't.
I have felt tremendous lethargy but again, could be the kids.
I introduced 4-Ad yesterday but, interestingly enough, about 5 hrs later I could feel elevated BP and my HR was high all things considered. I have NO idea if it would have that impact that fast so I did not take another dose but kept my 1-test at 330 still.
I am going to try the morning dose of 4 andro with a meal here shortly as I'll be in a more restive state until it's time to hit the gym in the early evening today.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I have also cut out all stims since yesterday and upped my dosages of all support supps
 
KvanH

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Do you have a BP meter? Would be good to have one and decent meters can be purchased for about 50$.
 
MFTrainz

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Do you have a BP meter? Would be good to have one and decent meters can be purchased for about 50$.
Yea there's one at the house. I didn't feel the need to pull it out, it was more of the elevated heart rate. Almost like taking heavy stims on an empty stomach. I can't figure it out......

Within 1 hour of taking the support supps things felt more normalized.
I should point out yesterday that -
1. I was running on 3-4? hrs of sleep from a teething child.
2. My water and food intake were both lacking
3. My anxiety levels from things not bodybuilding related were fairly high throughout the day

I know ALL of these can be attributed as well
 
MFTrainz

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I'm going to take the 4-Andro mid shortly with a bowl of oats and a crap load of water.
Current Rhr just sitting here - 53
 
MFTrainz

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So far it appears yesterday was a fluke, or more due to other primary circumstances with the 4-Andro being a subordinate issue so to speak. More or less just aggravated what was likely already elevated due to life stressors. And then it made me anxious which spikes things like crazy.
I'm going to take the middle day dose of 1-Andro in a couple hours and the final dose of 4-Ad with a small meal pre workout. I am going to run the 1-andro at 330 with the last week being able to push it to 440. I'm going to keep 4-andro lower dosed, and keeping the epi the same.
I want the 1-andro to be the real workhorse while the other 2 benefit in their own way but also help combat sides and give me the base I need for a recomp.


Now, as I delve down the rabbit hole, some say to use other supps on cycle besides support. I've heard estrogen blockers, Cortisol control, etc.

I'm just taking protein, bcaa, L-citrulline, cycle support, and about 4 other general health and suppprt supps (fish oil, grape seed, celery seed, NAC, Hawthorne berry, joint support)

If there's something that works synergistically with the pro hormones and helps the gains I'm open to consideration but I also am not trying to go overboard here. Thoughts?
 
KvanH

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So far it appears yesterday was a fluke, or more due to other primary circumstances with the 4-Andro being a subordinate issue so to speak. More or less just aggravated what was likely already elevated due to life stressors. And then it made me anxious which spikes things like crazy.
I'm going to take the middle day dose of 1-Andro in a couple hours and the final dose of 4-Ad with a small meal pre workout. I am going to run the 1-andro at 330 with the last week being able to push it to 440. I'm going to keep 4-andro lower dosed, and keeping the epi the same.
I want the 1-andro to be the real workhorse while the other 2 benefit in their own way but also help combat sides and give me the base I need for a recomp.


Now, as I delve down the rabbit hole, some say to use other supps on cycle besides support. I've heard estrogen blockers, Cortisol control, etc.

I'm just taking protein, bcaa, L-citrulline, cycle support, and about 4 other general health and suppprt supps (fish oil, grape seed, celery seed, NAC, Hawthorne berry, joint support)

If there's something that works synergistically with the pro hormones and helps the gains I'm open to consideration but I also am not trying to go overboard here. Thoughts?
Your support supps look good. I wouldn't take any AI unless high E symptoms occur, which is unlikely with this stack, but pretty much allways a possibility. If I remember correctly you have Exemestane on hand, so you are well covered there. I would save any cortisol control supps for pct.
 
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MFTrainz

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Your support supps look good. I wouldn't take any AI unless high E symptoms occur, which is unlikely with this stack, but pretty much allways a possibility. If I remenber correctly you have Exemestane on hand, so you are well covered there. I would save any cortisol control supps for pct.
Awesome, thanks bro. So basically throwing in these supps while on cycle is wasteful compared to the benefit they'd have during PCT (Im running a full pct stack to try to not only keep but maybe even make minimal gains during recovery).

I kind of figured as much but it's always best to ask others just in case I was missing something
 
MFTrainz

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2500 calories - there is the macro breakdown. I can list the foods, and to be honest many of my meals are very similar. On occasion I might need to throw a bar in or an extra shake or something if I'm on the go.

Two examples of workouts - one is an "accessory" day and the other is one of my harder workouts
 

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CasperKValentine

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Following bro. It's weird how much in common. I'm usually around the same calories, macros, looks like similar wo routine and numbers, going to start on 4-ad soon. LOL! I have it now but I have my TRT bloodwork checked on Monday. After that, it's game on! Should be cool to compare our results, because where I differ is that I'm going to go to slightly above maintenance. I tired of getting smaller and ready to add muscle mass. Oh and I'm going to cheat a little. I've had some D-bol lying around forever and I'm going to kickstart this run with that for the first 4 weeks. Good luck and looking forward to following your logs!
 
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Following bro. It's weird how much in common. I'm usually around the same calories, macros, looks like similar wo routine and numbers, going to start on 4-ad soon. LOL! I have it now but I have my TRT bloodwork checked on Monday. After that, it's game on! Should be cool to compare our results, because where I differ is that I'm going to go to slightly above maintenance. I tired of getting smaller and ready to add muscle mass. Oh and I'm going to cheat a little. I've had some D-bol lying around forever and I'm going to kickstart this run with that for the first 4 weeks. Good luck and looking forward to following your logs!
To be honest tho, your cycles differ alot more than your caloric intakes. You're on trt and running D-Boll + 4-Andro (I assume?) on top if it and OP's running 1-Andro / 4-Andro / Epiandro and then pct.
 

CasperKValentine

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To be honest tho, your cycles differ alot more than your caloric intakes. You're on trt and running D-Boll + 4-Andro (I assume?) on top if it and OP's running 1-Andro / 4-Andro / Epiandro and then pct.
That's true man. I'm running the 4-AD and Epiandro but you are right the TRT and D-bol will make things quite different. It's not set in stone but I think I'm going to run the D-bol/Epiandro for the first 4 weeks then run the 4-AD/Epiandro for the rest of the cycle.
 
MFTrainz

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Well things just got more interesting. Welcome and feel free to post your beginning experiences here or just to compare if you don't feel like logging.
I'm going to cycle my carbs a bit and up caloric intake up until the last couple weeks, where I'm going to try to PCT around or slightly UNDER maintenance. This can vary depending how I feel.

4-andro can cause some bp sides but if you take it with food and extra supports it becomes virtually non existent it seems. However, the amplified focus can also become anxiety if in the wrong circumstances, which also leads to the BP thing. Just food for thought on my initial experience. I will be continuing now that I know how I have to take it, you may react 100% differently.
I'm also VERY curious to see how this 4-andro from Supreme stacks up to the hi tech version. Slightly higher dose but I'm wondering if I'm respond better to it actually.

Epi andro has me slightly concerned on when to take it considering the 4 has almost given me stimulant like effects. I don't want to feel uncomfortable, that defeats the purpose of it all.

Anyone with epi experience can tell me how it went for them?
 
Boonfly8

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OP looks like you’re doing well, keep at it. Reading your posts reminds me of my first week lol. I remember the first day I took it I had a headache, then the headache subsided. I was able to see it working primitively during week 2. That I mean not crazy strength increases but weights going up and I was able to break the 225 plateau I had in a year on flat. I didn’t feel lethargy too much until last two weeks. Usually one (1) cup of coffee covered it.

Good to see you got joint support, I def needed that!

Tip:I noticed that when I refueled mid workout with a full sugar Gatorade , those are the greatest workout sessions lol
 
MFTrainz

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OP looks like you’re doing well, keep at it. Reading your posts reminds me of my first week lol. I remember the first day I took it I had a headache, then the headache subsided. I was able to see it working primitively during week 2. That I mean not crazy strength increases but weights going up and I was able to break the 225 plateau I had in a year on flat. I didn’t feel lethargy too much until last two weeks. Usually one (1) cup of coffee covered it.

Good to see you got joint support, I def needed that!

Tip:I noticed that when I refueled mid workout with a full sugar Gatorade , those are the greatest workout sessions lol
I have bcaa and L-citrulline intra but honestly the sugars could help the longer sessions. Tomorrow is a heavy day I'm throwing a body armor in my gym bag
 
KvanH

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That's true man. I'm running the 4-AD and Epiandro but you are right the TRT and D-bol will make things quite different. It's not set in stone but I think I'm going to run the D-bol/Epiandro for the first 4 weeks then run the 4-AD/Epiandro for the rest of the cycle.
Interesting setup. I would personally switch the D-Boll and 4-AD around (still confused if you really have 4-AD OR 4-Andro, they are not the same substance). The D-Boll will make most of the gains, so the 4-AD/4-Andro may not be enough to keep progressing.
 
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KvanH

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@KvanH did you ever run epi andro?
Not yet, but the effects are pretty well documented. I have used Proviron so far for similar purpose, but I have 2 Ultra Hard tubes waiting (Androsterone+Epiandro). Should be a fun and versatile product = )

You are adding the Epiandro next week?
 
MFTrainz

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Not yet, but the effects are pretty well documented. I have used Proviron so far for similar purpose, but I have 2 Ultra Hard tubes waiting (Androsterone+Epiandro). Should be a fun and versatile product = )

You are adding the Epiandro next week?
Yessir, I'm just trying to think about dosing as it seems with the andros my body needs to like adjust to each. 1-andro feels wonderful all the time. 4-andro (I'll try the supreme one starting tomorrow) had a surprisingly stimulant like effect especially the first dose and has been easier to "figure out" each time since.
I'm slightly concerned about how to throw the epi in when people have said it also can have that kind of stimmy feeling? Any opinion?
 
KvanH

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Yessir, I'm just trying to think about dosing as it seems with the andros my body needs to like adjust to each. 1-andro feels wonderful all the time. 4-andro (I'll try the supreme one starting tomorrow) had a surprisingly stimulant like effect especially the first dose and has been easier to "figure out" each time since.
I'm slightly concerned about how to throw the epi in when people have said it also can have that kind of stimmy feeling? Any opinion?
Well generally the dosing range is about 600 - 1 000 mg divided in to 3 dosings or taken all / emphasizing pwo. But I'm exactly like you when it comes to new substances and how I have to 'work them in'. If strongly stressing out on the Epiandro, I would even go as far as start with 1 capsule and add one per day until at the desired/effective dosage. Few days will be lost with time on effective dosage, no biggie and you can increase the dosing more/faster if felt like it.
 
MFTrainz

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Well generally the dosing range is about 600 - 1 000 mg divided in to 3 dosings or taken all / emphasizing pwo. But I'm exactly like you when it comes to new substances and how I have to 'work them in'. If strongly stressing out on the Epiandro, I would even go as far as start with 1 capsule and add one per day until at the desired/effective dosage. Few days will be lost with time on effective dosage, no biggie and you can increase the dosing more/faster if felt like it.
Good call. Start with one and space out the three compounds a bit and once it's acclimated start increasing the dosage. Worked for 1-test and 4-andro (thus far).

I'm also going heavy on support supps and I think that's benefiting the mental aspect of Working them in
 
Boonfly8

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I have bcaa and L-citrulline intra but honestly the sugars could help the longer sessions. Tomorrow is a heavy day I'm throwing a body armor in my gym bag
The best workouts of my life were in the past 2 weeks and I spent about 150cal mid workout to refuel lol. Try it at least once!
 
MFTrainz

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Used the supreme 4-andro today over the hi tech version - it came early.

Good workout, hit every number I was aiming for and really solidified my goal - by end of cycle my deads need to be back at 420+ for a one rep and 365 for a set. Max ever before any injury was 505.

Today was 315 for 6, and then hit 365 for 2. Belted up with knee wraps but still.

I did feel the BP rush so this does affect me like a stimulant if it's not taken with a bunch of food. 1-test does not.

I took 5 readings with an old but fairly reliable Walgreens wrist one that a nurse recommended before. You might get a few numbers higher on the wrist over upper arm but it's a good monitor still.

Highest was 130/82. Lowest was 119/71. This was Median of maybe 122/79 or 80 I would say. I don't think it's any huge spike, I feel like it has some odd effect and then I get a bit paranoid which elevates things a bit more but then, calming myself down, it's a pretty decent reading.


I am having a cheat meal tonight - I think with how diligently I'm tracking I'm going to allow myself one cheat meal per week. This week is 3 chicken tacos from a local spot and I ate almost a whole small pizza from another place ( big dinner).

I'll get updated weight tomorrow. It's still early as hell in the cycle but there's absolutely a bit more fullness and strength. Not enough to brag about yet, but it's like It's saying "just wait"


I am fairly convinced eating slightly below and then tapering up and down will allow me to be in a deficit overall but still gain decent muscle on this cycle
 
MFTrainz

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Endurance was insane today. I don't know if that factor kicked in until now. Holy crap.
Strength was up too.

Had some nice anabolic French toast for breakfast. Got some homemade high protein tortilla chips and guac. I'm hungry as hell today but eating clean
 
MFTrainz

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Update time!!

So I'm acclimating well enough to the 4-andro, enough to the point of thinking of going 300mg 4 and 330 of 1. Any thoughts?
BP median - 124/79 - still in a very good range considering.
Strength has gone up. Endurance is up. I haven't "tested" my cardio on it yet so to speak, I do a light warm up and then by end of workout cardio is moderate to a couple min of high intensity because, frankly, the volume gasses me out.

I haven't checked bodyweight yet but I'm a bit leaner and definitely stronger. When the size starts to come on a bit this will be nice.

Couple updated pics and food breakdown coming in a bit
 
Boonfly8

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Lately I’ve been drinking egg whites to get more protein and different kind of protein source in. It’s great ... besides the farts.
 

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